Blue Chip Ratio Debate (Does It Matter?)

[Dude]

A huge factor in recruiting is the amount of money the school allocates to recruiting. Alabama and UGA allocate around 2 million per year. Clemson gives the program around 1.7 million. Miami gives less than 500k. Miami could easily triple that amount and it would pay itself off in 1 year (going to a big 6 bowl game is worth about 3 million alone). The school deliberately chooses not to invest this rather small amount of money (relative to overall costs) even though it is vital to successful recruiting.

When people say that the school doesn't care about winning, this is a perfect example.

Richt was their chance though. They overcame a lot of criticism by hiring an established SEC coach with a fair amount of success and experience. After year 2, had he hire Mark Helfrich, that year 3 could have been something special. And now we'd be in the 2nd year of the Oregon spread, probably being run by Perry putting up Playstation numbers. Instead we hired Patke.

 

[ALLoverCANE]

Don’t know what Evan Neal will become but he wouldn’t be the difference between 4-0 and 2-2 right now.

How can you say that with any degree of confidence? We gave up 10 sacks vs. UF and lost by 4. Would we have given up 6 had he started at OT? Had we gotten blown out in the two losses I think you could credibly state that he wouldn't have made a difference, but they were both nail biters and our OL gave up 14 sacks. He very well could have been the difference.

 

[Brains]

How can you say that with any degree of confidence? We gave up 10 sacks vs. UF and lost by 4. Would we have given up 6 had he started at OT? Had we gotten blown out in the two losses I think you could credibly state that he wouldn't have made a difference, but they were both nail biters and our OL gave up 14 sacks. He very well could have been the difference.

These guys don't get it. You win even ONE more recruiting battle each year for 4-5 years, that changes your depth chart significantly. One player does not a program make, but year after year, getting just one extra guy is absolutely a difference in Ws and Ls.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

I just have different perspective. Saying "we need to win the Coastal consistently" we we've done it 1 time in 15 years under 4 different coaches doesn't seem to be working. I think that mentality will just produce more of the same results.

Here's the recruiting rankings, with the years in bold when Jimbo, Kirby, Riley took over. These dudes are just better salesman/recruiters IMO

FSU
2007 - 20
2008 - 12
2009 - 11
2010 - 8
2011 - 2
2012 - 4

FSU won 10 games 1 time 2001 - 2009. Bowden didn't recruit Winston and Cook. Jimbo built the juggernaut, but checked out his last season.

Texas A&M
2016 - 18
2017 - 13
2018 - 17
2019 - 9
2020 - 4

Texas A&M won 10 games 1 time 1999 - 2019. He's getting back to back Top 10 classes immediately

Georgia
2012 - 9
2013 - 12
2014 - 8
2015 - 6
2016 - 6
2017 - 3
2018 - 1
2019 - 2
2020 - 6

Richt came within 1 play of beating Alabama for a SEC Championship. Kirby came within 1 play of beating Alabama for a National Championship

Oklahoma
2014 - 14
2015 - 15
2016 - 19
2017 - 8
2018 - 9
2019 - 6
2020 - 13 (My guess is Riley's mentally already in the NFL)

This guy was once considered a pretty good salesman. Should we hire him?

According to this Rivals article, during his tenure at UT, he was one spot behind clem$on as a recruiter. https://n.rivals.com/news/rivals-top-50-recruiting-teams-of-the-past-five-years

 

[bshaw28]

Here's Tennessee

This guy was once considered a pretty good salesman. Should we hire him?

According to this Rivals article, during his tenure at UT, he was one spot behind clem$on as a recruiter. https://n.rivals.com/news/rivals-top-50-recruiting-teams-of-the-past-five-years

Butch is still a good salesman - why do you think he's on Alabama's staff?

Here's Tennessee's yearly win totals. Butch Jones years are in bold

2008 - 5
2009 - 7
2010 - 6
2011 - 5
2012 - 5
2013 - 5
2014 - 7
2015 - 9
2016 - 9
2017 - 4
2018 - 5
2019 - 1-3 start, and are a complete dumpster fire

Tennessee & Miami fans are in a similar boat. They always think they'll be able to hire a better coach than they realistically can.

Butch wasn't the best coach - but he was the best Tenn could get. Richt wasn't the best coach - but he was the best Miami could get.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Here's Tennessee


Butch is still a good salesman - why do you think he's on Alabama's staff?

Here's Tennessee's yearly win totals. Butch Jones years are in bold

2008 - 5
2009 - 7
2010 - 6
2011 - 5
2012 - 5
2013 - 5
2014 - 7
2015 - 9
2016 - 9
2017 - 4
2018 - 5
2019 - 1-3 start, and are a complete dumpster fire

Tennessee & Miami fans are in a similar boat. They always think they'll be able to hire a better coach than they realistically can.

Butch wasn't the best coach - but he was the best Tenn could get. Richt wasn't the best coach - but he was the best Miami could get.

Richt wasn't the best Miami could get. He was the safest affordable choice Miami could get. There were better coaches available, but Miami either wont spend the money (which it has) or is afraid to take a risk. A safe coach that wins 8-9 games a year, has a high graduation rate and kids not getting arrested is 100x more preferable to the BOT than a guy like Mike Leach.

 

[bshaw28]

Richt wasn't the best Miami could get. He was the safest affordable choice Miami could get. There were better coaches available, but Miami either wont spend the money (which it has) or is afraid to take a risk. A safe coach that wins 8-9 games a year, has a high graduation rate and kids not getting arrested is 100x more preferable to the BOT than a guy like Mike Leach.

That's kind of my point - if we know the BOT is going to hire an affordable safe choice, Mark Richt is the best we're going to do.

Richt compared to Coker, Shannon, Golden was definitely the best. Manny is TBD, but it's not off to a great start.

And I think Leach would just make us a more entertaining 7-9 win team.

Losing 67-63 to a 1-4 UCLA team like Leach just did would be just as frustrating but more fun to watch than losing 28-25 to a 2-3 UNC team.

 

[puertorricane]

Talent obviously matters, what doesn't matter is high school rankings.
Is all about evaluation and development.

 

[TheEye]

Richt was our best recruiter in forever. Had he & The U admin agreed from the get go it would be about winning titles and bringing in the assistants necessary to those ends, Richt could have scratched the surface and got that ring he needed for his HoF resume. Alas, it was about his comfort, not wins.

I agree for the most part, but man was this board toxic against Richt. Even before he moved here, I kept reading "never won a National Title," "vanilla offense," "old," "there's a reason he was fired." It went beyond this site. I heard it from alumni, people at game watch parties, etc. People did not appreciate the hire, and did not appreciate the coach.

Long story short, find me a guy with a comparable resume willing to coach for us. You won't find him.

Back to my original point, his recruiting slumped when he got here, particularly in his final year. With a coastal title and 10 win season fresh in recruit minds, he still whiffed in S. Fl. Apples to apples comparison, if he could perform in Athens and not in Coral Gables, there is a systematic problem beyond the coach. Bagman culture? Maybe. Fanbase? Probably. Money for assistants? Definitely.

 

[Dude]

I agree for the most part, but man was this board toxic against Richt. Even before he moved here, I kept reading "never won a National Title," "vanilla offense," "old," "there's a reason he was fired." It went beyond this site. I heard it from alumni, people at game watch parties, etc. People did not appreciate the hire, and did not appreciate the coach.

Long story short, find me a guy with a comparable resume willing to coach for us. You won't find him.

Back to my original point, his recruiting slumped when he got here, particularly in his final year. With a coastal title and 10 win season fresh in recruit minds, he still whiffed is S. Fl. Apples to apples comparison, if he could perform in Athens and not in Coral Gables, there is a systematic problem beyond the coach. Bagman culture? Maybe. Fanbase? Probably. Money for assistants? Definitely.

Mike Gundy would probably leave if offered the right deal. Rumors have been floating he wants out of Stillwater, but nevermind that. Yeah, there was some toxicity behind the Richt hire, but as it turns out the board was right because he put his personal relationships before the players and winning. Richt wanting to call plays should have been a no go for the admin, or at least given an agreed sunset period should it not work out. If Mark Richt hires Helfrich 2 seasons ago, we're sitting here 4-0 talking about Perry maybe getting us over the Clemson hump.

As far as the recruiting goes, the 2018 class was pretty good. And everyone talked about how genius it was with all the early enrollees. He struck out late because we started losing again, to Pitt, then Clemson, then Wisky (same ole Miami). If he hires Helfrich that following January... we're starting to get cooking and I dont think we go 7-6 with THAT #2 Defense. More likely we are 10-2 again, and we are starting to look consistent.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

Here's Tennessee


Butch is still a good salesman - why do you think he's on Alabama's staff?

Here's Tennessee's yearly win totals. Butch Jones years are in bold

2008 - 5
2009 - 7
2010 - 6
2011 - 5
2012 - 5
2013 - 5
2014 - 7
2015 - 9
2016 - 9
2017 - 4
2018 - 5
2019 - 1-3 start, and are a complete dumpster fire

Tennessee & Miami fans are in a similar boat. They always think they'll be able to hire a better coach than they realistically can.

Butch wasn't the best coach - but he was the best Tenn could get. Richt wasn't the best coach - but he was the best Miami could get.

But wait. I thought it was all about talent? If Richt is the best coach we can get, and we have more talent than anyone else in our division, why didn't we win the Coastal more than once in three years?

I don't disagree with you all that much at the end of the day. I just don't agree with this bold and broad assertion that "it's not the X's and O's, it's the Jimmy's and Joe's." Players matter, and coaching matters.

At the point where this program is at, the only way to get the Joe's is to first win based on X's and O's. We've got a solid talent advantage over our divisional competitors, we need to beat them with the talent that we have before we can expect to improve our talent level substantially. Being a "salesman" is not the answer in this day and age. Sure, it worked for Howard back in 1979. Those were different times.

 

[Rellyrell]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that the players that go to Bama are there just maybe because Bama has a winning program and
obviously really good coaching ?

The "Bama steals players" ****t is really old and ridiculous. Bama has achieved something that Miami has been too
stupid to do. I don't like Alabama but I sure as **** respect what they do and what they have achieved.

It's a lost concept.

I'm sorry, but we were just fine snatching up player after player around the country when we were winning. We sound like some sore loser. Players are going to Bama b/c Nick Saban won a Nat'l Championship at LSU, went to the NFL, came back, and are winning again. The kids see where all these NFL players are coming from, and they see what teams are always in discussion for a National Championship. Kids want to win, they want to get paid, and their families is depending on them to make it.

My client's daughter now attends Bama. She hates it there b/c she said the students are literally forced to attend at least one home game...but she said they are always building something at Bama. This chit wasn't going on before Saban. Chit is being built left and right at Clemson. Wasntt happening before Dabo. And the irony is chit wasn't being built until Schnelly came on board, at Miami. These programs are taking football real serious b/c it's a real serious revenue booster.

For Miami to be toting out the narrative of always being broke, w/ their hands always out, you would think they would take football real serious, but ****, since Julia Frank has been here, they not even taking academics serious!! I don't hate on Bama, Clemson, LSU, OSU, or soon to be USC. I hate all those teams off the rip, but I respect the game w/in the game to make sure they keep the money rolling. Everyone eats when your team is good. We used to be that squad, and we've lost our way w/ **** *** hire, after **** *** hire, and I'm not just talking about the coaches.

 

[Trafficante]

@craval85 How did I know you would the 1 No! before I even checked lol.

Because sometimes you have to play the role of a shepherd, and help lead sheep out of darkness.

 

[Trafficante]

The best beef on CIS, I got my popcorn ready lol.

I don't really view it as Beef per se, but we do have fundamental disagreements as it pertains to elitism. There are also things we agree on as well

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Because sometimes you have to play the role of a shepherd, helping to lead sheep out of darkness.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

I don't really view it as Beef per se, but we do have fundamental disagreements as it pertains to elitism. There are also things we do agree on as well

Its just a friendly feud. Its not Gucci Vs Jeezy beef. lmao.

 

[Trafficante]

Its just a friendly feud. Its not Gucci Vs Jeezy beef. lmao.

Yes definitely..100. But now that was a beef. To this day I still do not know who definitively won that-they both had their moments

 

[Cane1974]

Don’t know what Evan Neal will become but he wouldn’t be the difference between 4-0 and 2-2 right now.

I beg to differ. A couple less sacks and pressures per game and we could very well be 4-0

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Yes definitely..100. But now that was a beef. To this day I still do not know who definitively won that-they both had their moments

Agreed both had straight bangers and some really good digs at each other.

 

[Twhizman]

I'm always in the camp of I'd rather have a coach that's a great recruiter & ok coach vs great coach & ok recruiter

To me, Mark Richts value to Miami was always going to be how well he could recruit vs. how well he was going to coach.

Guys like Kirby Smart, Jimbo Fisher, Lincoln Riley, Dabo Sweeney - those guys didn't need 10 win seasons to be able to recruit. They could just recruit their asses off. We just need to get lucky and eventually land one of those guys.

I think a staff that kills it in recruiting far outweighs coaching ability and talent development.

This is where you are wrong.good recruiting begins with evaluating the talent just because a kid is a 5* in hs doesn't mean he's one in college.a coaching staff has to do three things good to be successful.have to evaluate talent whether it's a 5*,4*,3* etc.then they have to develop those players .then be able to fit the scheme around the players ability.every good team out there no matter what level have this basis in common they are able to coach it up and develop the players.I
How many 5*&4* have we had the last 15+ years here that were busts or never got better from their first game.or how many seem to regress.our history shows last 15+ bad coaches at developing and evaluating talent.our best teams show what good talent evaluator s and developing those players those coaches were.