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Blue Chip Ratio Debate (Does It Matter?)

Does Blue Chip Ratio Matter?

  • Total voters
    81
  • Poll closed .
NE Canes said:
This is the problem with trying to pick one over the other. What did Richt do with any of his best recruits?

These guys you list may be good recruiters but really. Dabo had about 4 10 win seasons and bowl wins before they turned into a juggernaut. Riley and Kirby both took over a winning programs. Plus UGA opened up and went serious with the bags after Richt. Jimbo took over a winning program as well.

You have to be winning to get elite players no matter how good your recruiting is. You don't just hope to get lucky. Clemson is like the poster child for building a winning program. They had to go several seasons of winning 10 games and bowl wins before they turn into what they are today.

When Miami proves they can win bowl games and multiple 10 win seasons recruiting will suddenly become a whole lot easier. But you have to start winning with today's players. You have to actually show up for games and don't get blown out in bowl games. You have to beat the teams you are supposed to beat and blow out teams you are supposed to blowout. You have to actually play your best players.
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No question winning 10 games a season helps. It's just not necessary

- Dabo closed the #10 class coming off a 6 win season at a school that hadn't won 10 games in 20 years
- Kirby's first year Georgia was ranked #9 preseason - and finished unranked with 8 wins,. But he got the #6 recruiting class
- Jimbo got the #8 recruiting class with a FSU team that hadn't won 10 games in 6 years
- Jimbo got the #4 recruiting class last year with a Texas A&M team that's won 10 games once in the last 20 years
- Lincoln Riley got Oklahoma's recruiting from 10-20 classes to Top 10 classes since he's been there

Some guys are just better salesmen than others. And that's what we need IMO

Without that, we're just stuck in the - we need more talent to get 10 wins, but we can't get talent until we get 10 wins cycle we've been in for 15 years.
 
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bshaw28 said:
I'm always in the camp of I'd rather have a coach that's a great recruiter & ok coach vs great coach & ok recruiter

To me, Mark Richts value to Miami was always going to be how well he could recruit vs. how well he was going to coach.

Guys like Kirby Smart, Jimbo Fisher, Lincoln Riley, Dabo Sweeney - those guys didn't need 10 win seasons to be able to recruit. They could just recruit their asses off. We just need to get lucky and eventually land one of those guys.

I think a staff that kills it in recruiting far outweighs coaching ability and talent development.
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Hogwash.

Jimbo won with Bowden's players, basically. Given time, Jimbo's recruiting classes are what eventually destroyed a monster at FSU. The higher ranked the recruiting classes got, the worse the team started to perform.

Dabo, dude has the worst recruiting and lowest BC ratio of any of the national champs of the last ten years (Auburn ten years ago being the lone possible exception). They didn't win because they were getting top 3 classes every year, they had to build it and win with what they had before they became elite at recruiting.

Smart is definitely rolling in the top recruiting classes every year. It remains to be seen if he will ever do anything significant with all of that recruiting success.

Lincoln Riley is a ******* unicorn and doesn't even belong in this conversation. I'm not sure what to make of him yet, but he could well take three straight cast-off transfers and win three straight Heisman's. Let's not pretend that anything he is doing is repeatable by anyone else.

Luck is not a plan. We need our coach to take the best talent in the Coastal division and win the Coastal division. Consistently. Then we can talk about the next step.
 
bshaw28 said:
No question winning 10 games a season helps. It's just not necessary

- Dabo closed the #10 overall class coming off a 6 win season at a school that hadn't won 10 games in 20 years $$$
- Kirby's first year Georgia was ranked #9 preseason - and finished unranked with 8 wins,. But he got the #6 recruiting class $$$$$
- Jimbo got the #8 recruiting class with a FSU team that hadn't won 10 games in 6 years
- Jimbo got the #4 recruiting class last year with a Texas A&M team that's won 10 games once in the last 20 years $$$$
- Lincoln Riley got Oklahoma's recruiting from 10-20 classes to Top 10 classes since he's been there $ - and also don't pretend like Bob Stoops wasn't reigning in top 5 classes consistently, until the last year or two when it was getting obvious he was washed.

Some guys are just better salesmen than others. And that's what we need IMO

Without that, we're just stuck in the - we need more talent to get 10 wins, but we can't get talent until we get 10 wins cycle we've been in for 15 years.
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What are you talking about? Al Golden was as good a car salesman as any coach we've ever had.

I love that people really think that football coaches have this special power of convincing young kids to do stuff against their own best interests. Really shows just how naive people can be. Do they have a magic wand, or a special flute?

Or maybe winning and bags of money have more to do with it?

If we win, we can compete with bags. We already have more talent than every team on our schedule except 1-2 games a year. We can't expect to get better talent until we can prove we will consistently win those games where we have the talent advantage.
 
MISTER OWL said:
Under Enos, I don’t understand the point of bringing in Martell if you are running a system that he would not be a fit. Now it seems Enos is pressured to find him a spot somewhere else. So we have a 5-star QB getting burn over a 5-star WR at WR.
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I pin this more on Martell for transferring to a team that wasn't going to run the style of offense he's best in. When Enos took the job, the quarterback room consisted of a broken and lost N'Kosi Perry and Jarren Williams who was fat and trying to transfer. He was in no position to turn away any possible quarterback transfer, especially a big name like Martell. It's not like we're against the wall with scholarships.
 
bshaw28 said:
No question winning 10 games a season helps. It's just not necessary

- Dabo closed the #10 class coming off a 6 win season at a school that hadn't won 10 games in 20 years
- Kirby's first year Georgia was ranked #9 preseason - and finished unranked with 8 wins,. But he got the #6 recruiting class
- Jimbo got the #8 recruiting class with a FSU team that hadn't won 10 games in 6 years
- Jimbo got the #4 recruiting class last year with a Texas A&M team that's won 10 games once in the last 20 years
- Lincoln Riley got Oklahoma's recruiting from 10-20 classes to Top 10 classes since he's been there

Some guys are just better salesmen than others. And that's what we need IMO

Without that, we're just stuck in the - we need more talent to get 10 wins, but we can't get talent until we get 10 wins cycle we've been in for 15 years.
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What g8rh8rMD said. Also,

Good recruiting is fine but if you do not do anything with it it is pointless. You need both coaching and players.

But the elite players are never going to come regardless of the sales job if the team is and has been poor over the years.

You need to prove you can win with what you have first. Then pick up a better class. Win some more...pick up a better class. If you win enough and are a good recruiter then you can join the elite one day. Keep losing and all your classes will be up and down. You will never be elite even if you manage to bring in elite players if the coaching is poor.
 
g8rh8rMD said:
Hogwash.

Jimbo won with Bowden's players, basically. Given time, Jimbo's recruiting classes are what eventually destroyed a monster at FSU. The higher ranked the recruiting classes got, the worse the team started to perform.

Dabo, dude has the worst recruiting and lowest BC ratio of any of the national champs of the last ten years (Auburn ten years ago being the lone possible exception). They didn't win because they were getting top 3 classes every year, they had to build it and win with what they had before they became elite at recruiting.

Smart is definitely rolling in the top recruiting classes every year. It remains to be seen if he will ever do anything significant with all of that recruiting success.

Lincoln Riley is a ******* unicorn and doesn't even belong in this conversation. I'm not sure what to make of him yet, but he could well take three straight cast-off transfers and win three straight Heisman's. Let's not pretend that anything he is doing is repeatable by anyone else.

Luck is not a plan. We need our coach to take the best talent in the Coastal division and win the Coastal division. Consistently. Then we can talk about the next step.
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I just have different perspective. Saying "we need to win the Coastal consistently" we we've done it 1 time in 15 years under 4 different coaches doesn't seem to be working. I think that mentality will just produce more of the same results.

Here's the recruiting rankings, with the years in bold when Jimbo, Kirby, Riley took over. These dudes are just better salesman/recruiters IMO

FSU
2007 - 20
2008 - 12
2009 - 11
2010 - 8
2011 - 2
2012 - 4

FSU won 10 games 1 time 2001 - 2009. Bowden didn't recruit Winston and Cook. Jimbo built the juggernaut, but checked out his last season.

Texas A&M
2016 - 18
2017 - 13
2018 - 17
2019 - 9
2020 - 4

Texas A&M won 10 games 1 time 1999 - 2019. He's getting back to back Top 10 classes immediately

Georgia
2012 - 9
2013 - 12
2014 - 8
2015 - 6
2016 - 6
2017 - 3
2018 - 1
2019 - 2
2020 - 6

Richt came within 1 play of beating Alabama for a SEC Championship. Kirby came within 1 play of beating Alabama for a National Championship

Oklahoma
2014 - 14
2015 - 15
2016 - 19
2017 - 8
2018 - 9
2019 - 6
2020 - 13 (My guess is Riley's mentally already in the NFL)
 
Go Canes!! said:
You aren’t winning a Championship without overwhelming talent AND a dominant QB, I don’t care what team you are is who’s coaching it.

Great coaches can get that talent, and the QB, then put it all together for titles.
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Is Fromm a dominant QB? I think you can still win it with a solid QB, assuming the rest of your squad is as you said "overwhelmingly talented." A good coaching system will get you the regular success you need to start recruiting an overwhelmingly talented roster.
 
Dude said:
Is Fromm a dominant QB? I think you can still win it with a solid QB, assuming the rest of your squad is as you said "overwhelmingly talented." A good coaching system will get you the regular success you need to start recruiting an overwhelmingly talented roster.
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Nope he's not.

Which is why at crunch time of the two most important games of their seasons, he's done absolutely nothing.
 
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TheEye said:
“Allow Alabama to steal our recruits”

You act as if our coaches forget to recruit South Florida. Our coaches recruit South Florida. All of them. Coker to Diaz. Al Golden lost his mind trying to recruit South Florida. Miami gets played every year by these 5 stars.

I will repeat this again. Richt could recruit the top flight kids when he was in Athens. Less so in Coral Gables.

The problem is not coaching.
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Richt was our best recruiter in forever. Had he & The U admin agreed from the get go it would be about winning titles and bringing in the assistants necessary to those ends, Richt could have scratched the surface and got that ring he needed for his HoF resume. Alas, it was about his comfort, not wins.
 
You can win a title with top talent and less than great coaching (see Coker among others), you cannot win a title without a transcendent quarter back or a great roster talent until someone does it in the modern era to prove otherwise (see the often over achieving but never winning big contenders).

roster talent > x and o talent to win in any one year. but that roster talent needs x and o talent to sustain success.
 
Go Canes!! said:
Nope he's not.

Which is why at crunch time of the two most important games of their seasons, he's done absolutely nothing.
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I wouldnt be shocked if UGA won it all though, theyre dominant in so many other areas. Greg McElroy & AJ McCarron have won titles recently, they arent dominant QBs.
 
TimeB0mb said:
Average coach with elite talent > elite coach with average talent

I don't think that is particularly controversial.
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Yeah, you're right.
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Dude said:
Richt was our best recruiter in forever. Had he & The U admin agreed from the get go it would be about winning titles and bringing in the assistants necessary to those ends, Richt could have scratched the surface and got that ring he needed for his HoF resume. Alas, it was about his comfort, not wins.
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A huge factor in recruiting is the amount of money the school allocates to recruiting. Alabama and UGA allocate around 2 million per year. Clemson gives the program around 1.7 million. Miami gives less than 500k. Miami could easily triple that amount and it would pay itself off in 1 year (going to a big 6 bowl game is worth about 3 million alone). The school deliberately chooses not to invest this rather small amount of money (relative to overall costs) even though it is vital to successful recruiting.

When people say that the school doesn't care about winning, this is a perfect example.
 
CFLCane said:
Lol at all these people who thing we're going to recruit and get 5 stars before we win ****. This isn't playstation. Here's a list of the highest rated miami recruits in the last 10-12 years. Did any of them even make 1st All ACC? Maybe Chad, Duke, or Brandon Harris?

Seantrel Henderson
Latwan Anderson
Ramon Buchanon
Tracy Howard
Arthur Brown
Bryce Brown
Marcus Forston
Anthony Chickillo
Brandon Harris
Duke Johnson
Chad Thomas
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Now break down 5 star OL....
 
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