Barry Jackson fall camp buzz

[Gatorhater]

though UM hasn’t ruled out playing Berrios outside.

At some point, someone is going to have to explain this one to me. Last year, the reason offered up was "numbers." I mentioned I found that weird since we could have played Harris or really anyone else there. I'm at a loss for why Berrios should play outside.

Separate note: I think Barry and Pete's reports are pretty much aligned at this point.

You saying Barry is doing copy and paste from Pete's work?

 

[Arehel]

though UM hasn’t ruled out playing Berrios outside.

At some point, someone is going to have to explain this one to me. Last year, the reason offered up was "numbers." I mentioned I found that weird since we could have played Harris or really anyone else there. I'm at a loss for why Berrios should play outside.

Separate note: I think Barry and Pete's reports are pretty much aligned at this point.

I've seen this a few times and there nothing wrong with this.

It's really dependent on your offensive scheme. You can put your clear out guy in the slot which will take the Safety and Nickel, which allow your outside WR to run in's slants screens etc with plenty of room.
If you put Berrios outside and pair it up with a speed guy like Thomas it become very dangerous because a simple hook corner design allows both guys to really have some space to work with.

Alternatively, you can put the clear-out guy on the outside (which is what most people on this board seem to believe is the status quo) and let the slot receiver run the short routes in space.

Both options have value, and because they start with one of the other doesn't mean a quick switch can't happen. Let's remember from that slot position you have to be able to block the Nickel (i.e., Johnson and Bandy types) and I'm not sure Jeff Thomas is there physically yet.

The problem is we've watched it countless times. Some successful (in practice) and multiple times unsuccessful (in games). I understand the concept of clearing out and hook/corner (or other route combos) design. There are many variations beyond the smash concept. Berrios got separation in practice. He came underneath and made plays. But, could not get sufficient separation in the game from the outside spot nor did he have the physical attributes to make the necessary plays when blanketed. Of course, it depends on the man/zone defense the route combination faces.

Not sure if you're attributing some of your comments to me (things like what we "believe is the status quo") or that a "quick switch can't happen," but if you are, you're off. The heart of my question and issue is we've seen Berrios play from the flanker and I believe we have better options now and would argue we had better alternatives for the concepts you described (which were described on here last Fall camp) last season - even with a shorthanded unit.

Not at all, was simply stating "status quo" to the more general football fans mind. And the route combo I described is the easiest one everyone knows (the smsash concept is actually a quick out and a corner, not a hook and corner), not trying to be a righteous ****.
I was trying to just inform of greater football schemes out there and there is value in putting the "shifty" guy on the outside.
I agree I don't like having short shifty guys who aren't natural "ball snatchers" (i.e., ball the ball like a rebound in basketball) on the outside, like Berrios. I think he is serviceable there but isn't ideal considering his skillset, as we've seen from the TV, stands etc.

Seems like the group he has now, minus a Njoku type, its overall better. Last year was Coley, Njoku, and Richards, with Berris serviceable. This year, based on camp reports, is Richards, Herndon, Berrios, Thomas, Harley and Dallas.
It'll be interesting to see what he comes up with, with a more mobile passer, regardless of who the thrower is, and a bunch of guys who are ball snatchers and lots of wiggle and speed, but not as much height and size. My guess is a lot of 2-4 yard passing plays with a lot of big plays 25+ yards plays. Doesn't seem liek a group that will thrive on intermediate type gains.

 

[LuCane]

though UM hasn’t ruled out playing Berrios outside.

At some point, someone is going to have to explain this one to me. Last year, the reason offered up was "numbers." I mentioned I found that weird since we could have played Harris or really anyone else there. I'm at a loss for why Berrios should play outside.

Separate note: I think Barry and Pete's reports are pretty much aligned at this point.

I've seen this a few times and there nothing wrong with this.

It's really dependent on your offensive scheme. You can put your clear out guy in the slot which will take the Safety and Nickel, which allow your outside WR to run in's slants screens etc with plenty of room.
If you put Berrios outside and pair it up with a speed guy like Thomas it become very dangerous because a simple hook corner design allows both guys to really have some space to work with.

Alternatively, you can put the clear-out guy on the outside (which is what most people on this board seem to believe is the status quo) and let the slot receiver run the short routes in space.

Both options have value, and because they start with one of the other doesn't mean a quick switch can't happen. Let's remember from that slot position you have to be able to block the Nickel (i.e., Johnson and Bandy types) and I'm not sure Jeff Thomas is there physically yet.

The problem is we've watched it countless times. Some successful (in practice) and multiple times unsuccessful (in games). I understand the concept of clearing out and hook/corner (or other route combos) design. There are many variations beyond the smash concept. Berrios got separation in practice. He came underneath and made plays. But, could not get sufficient separation in the game from the outside spot nor did he have the physical attributes to make the necessary plays when blanketed. Of course, it depends on the man/zone defense the route combination faces.

Not sure if you're attributing some of your comments to me (things like what we "believe is the status quo") or that a "quick switch can't happen," but if you are, you're off. The heart of my question and issue is we've seen Berrios play from the flanker and I believe we have better options now and would argue we had better alternatives for the concepts you described (which were described on here last Fall camp) last season - even with a shorthanded unit.

Not at all, was simply stating "status quo" to the more general football fans mind. And the route combo I described is the easiest one everyone knows (the smsash concept is actually a quick out and a corner, not a hook and corner), not trying to be a righteous ****.

Hm. How I was taught (and seen taught) to both defend (FS) and run (slot) the smash concept was a curl or hitch on the outside and a corner route from the slot.

Looked up an image to describe what I mean:

 

[Arehel]

though UM hasn’t ruled out playing Berrios outside.

At some point, someone is going to have to explain this one to me. Last year, the reason offered up was "numbers." I mentioned I found that weird since we could have played Harris or really anyone else there. I'm at a loss for why Berrios should play outside.

Separate note: I think Barry and Pete's reports are pretty much aligned at this point.

I've seen this a few times and there nothing wrong with this.

It's really dependent on your offensive scheme. You can put your clear out guy in the slot which will take the Safety and Nickel, which allow your outside WR to run in's slants screens etc with plenty of room.
If you put Berrios outside and pair it up with a speed guy like Thomas it become very dangerous because a simple hook corner design allows both guys to really have some space to work with.

Alternatively, you can put the clear-out guy on the outside (which is what most people on this board seem to believe is the status quo) and let the slot receiver run the short routes in space.

Both options have value, and because they start with one of the other doesn't mean a quick switch can't happen. Let's remember from that slot position you have to be able to block the Nickel (i.e., Johnson and Bandy types) and I'm not sure Jeff Thomas is there physically yet.

The problem is we've watched it countless times. Some successful (in practice) and multiple times unsuccessful (in games). I understand the concept of clearing out and hook/corner (or other route combos) design. There are many variations beyond the smash concept. Berrios got separation in practice. He came underneath and made plays. But, could not get sufficient separation in the game from the outside spot nor did he have the physical attributes to make the necessary plays when blanketed. Of course, it depends on the man/zone defense the route combination faces.

Not sure if you're attributing some of your comments to me (things like what we "believe is the status quo") or that a "quick switch can't happen," but if you are, you're off. The heart of my question and issue is we've seen Berrios play from the flanker and I believe we have better options now and would argue we had better alternatives for the concepts you described (which were described on here last Fall camp) last season - even with a shorthanded unit.

Not at all, was simply stating "status quo" to the more general football fans mind. And the route combo I described is the easiest one everyone knows (the smsash concept is actually a quick out and a corner, not a hook and corner), not trying to be a righteous ****.

Hm. How I was taught (and seen taught) to both defend (FS) and run (slot) the smash concept was a curl or hitch on the outside and a corner route from the slot.

Looked up an image to describe what I mean:

View attachment 48501

I'm in Canada, so maybe in Canadian football we changed it up a little.
All good. Typically, as a coach I let the outside receiver run a hook or out, basically find a hole, or keep the corner low.

Searched saw the same thing and you're right.

 

[LuCane]

I've seen this a few times and there nothing wrong with this.

It's really dependent on your offensive scheme. You can put your clear out guy in the slot which will take the Safety and Nickel, which allow your outside WR to run in's slants screens etc with plenty of room.
If you put Berrios outside and pair it up with a speed guy like Thomas it become very dangerous because a simple hook corner design allows both guys to really have some space to work with.

Alternatively, you can put the clear-out guy on the outside (which is what most people on this board seem to believe is the status quo) and let the slot receiver run the short routes in space.

Both options have value, and because they start with one of the other doesn't mean a quick switch can't happen. Let's remember from that slot position you have to be able to block the Nickel (i.e., Johnson and Bandy types) and I'm not sure Jeff Thomas is there physically yet.

The problem is we've watched it countless times. Some successful (in practice) and multiple times unsuccessful (in games). I understand the concept of clearing out and hook/corner (or other route combos) design. There are many variations beyond the smash concept. Berrios got separation in practice. He came underneath and made plays. But, could not get sufficient separation in the game from the outside spot nor did he have the physical attributes to make the necessary plays when blanketed. Of course, it depends on the man/zone defense the route combination faces.

Not sure if you're attributing some of your comments to me (things like what we "believe is the status quo") or that a "quick switch can't happen," but if you are, you're off. The heart of my question and issue is we've seen Berrios play from the flanker and I believe we have better options now and would argue we had better alternatives for the concepts you described (which were described on here last Fall camp) last season - even with a shorthanded unit.

Not at all, was simply stating "status quo" to the more general football fans mind. And the route combo I described is the easiest one everyone knows (the smsash concept is actually a quick out and a corner, not a hook and corner), not trying to be a righteous ****.

Hm. How I was taught (and seen taught) to both defend (FS) and run (slot) the smash concept was a curl or hitch on the outside and a corner route from the slot.

Looked up an image to describe what I mean:

View attachment 48501

I'm in Canada, so maybe in Canadian football we changed it up a little.
All good. Typically, as a coach I let the outside receiver run a hook or out, basically find a hole, or keep the corner low.

Searched saw the same thing and you're right.

Right. Generally, concept is a high-low. Was fun to run against Cover 3. Was less fun to cover that slot when I played FS. If inside WR had any kind of burst and the QB some accuracy, it was incredibly difficult to get over when the outside receiver makes the CB sit down. Like everything else, pretty much about timing and precision. There were also a number of interesting flood patterns to run/defend.

Not sure if you paid close attention last season, but I didn't see the route combinations I expected of Richt. Interested to see how he expands this year. I surmise you coach, so hope you have some time to pop into a few threads during camp and the season.

 

[Arehel]

You're right. We'll see what Richt has. The route combinations were pretty drab, but it might be because who he has to work with, he complained a lot about speed, so without a clear out type or something the defense have to actually back off from it make it tough to find room underneath.

My guess and hope if he runs more of a NE Patriots style (at least these past three years) where essentially its have a guy run deep (and his job is to get open deep) while another guy runs underneath and go wherever he wants to to find room, and this is done on one side, while the other side is often a hook go option. The QB just looks deep and based on timing keeps looking there and if he doesn't like it sends it to the under guy.

 

[LuCane]

You're right. We'll see what Richt has. The route combinations were pretty drab, but it might be because who he has to work with, he complained a lot about speed, so without a clear out type or something the defense have to actually back off from it make it tough to find room underneath.

My guess and hope if he runs more of a NE Patriots style (at least these past three years) where essentially its have a guy run deep (and his job is to get open deep) while another guy runs underneath and go wherever he wants to to find room, and this is done on one side, while the other side is often a hook go option. The QB just looks deep and based on timing keeps looking there and if he doesn't like it sends it to the under guy.

Would love to see guys like Harley and Thomas running option routes from the inside spots. Last year, we had guys like Njoku and Herndon running short and intermediate out breaking routes against smaller defenders like Trey Marshall. Naturally, he was all over it.

Some claim we ran those because Richt didn't trust our OL to hold the pocket long enough. However, later in the season, he went to quicker drops and different routes inside. Specifically, with Njoku.

I'm really curious who we end up looking like in terms of style of offense. We def have a lot of options at the skill positions. If Cager solidifies himself at SE, that really changes (helps) things. Please move Ahmmon Richards around the field.

 

[Paskudnyak]

Travis Homer

7 rushing attempts
0 touchdowns
1 fumble


Those are some SMD numbers

 

[ScharfCane]

Travis Homer

7 rushing attempts
0 touchdowns
1 fumble


Those are some SMD numbers

As a true freshman behind 2 vets...small sample size... STFU!

 

[ghost2]

That smash concept was a cornerstone of Richt's offense forever - he called it the "passing triangle". I made a thread on it forever ago but I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

[scrantoncane]

You're right. We'll see what Richt has. The route combinations were pretty drab, but it might be because who he has to work with, he complained a lot about speed, so without a clear out type or something the defense have to actually back off from it make it tough to find room underneath.

My guess and hope if he runs more of a NE Patriots style (at least these past three years) where essentially its have a guy run deep (and his job is to get open deep) while another guy runs underneath and go wherever he wants to to find room, and this is done on one side, while the other side is often a hook go option. The QB just looks deep and based on timing keeps looking there and if he doesn't like it sends it to the under guy.

Do you think we can run option routes with several freshman receivers and possibly a freshman QB? We barely even motioned receivers last year, with a third year starter. I'd be nervous that the QB and WRs wouldn't be on the same page on those option routes.


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[Arehel]

That smash concept was a cornerstone of Richt's offense forever - he called it the "passing triangle". I made a thread on it forever ago but I'll see if I can dig it up.

I've seen it before and see link below, it's a great tool:

Miami Hurricanes Head Coach Mark Richt Brings the Triangle to South Beach - Inside The Pylon

Seems like more often then not the passing triangle is a variation of a snag concept and uses different people as the pick player. It's also safe because if you blitz quick leaves middle of the field vacant and you have a quick shot over the middle to your drag (which in a Cover 2 or 3, he's the body used as the rub guy on the low defender).

It's a concept where you kind of have an option regardless of what the defense throws at you. You have to roll your coverage to that side, leaving you one-on-one on the other side, which if you have a guy like Ahmon Richards, you're smiling.

 

[Arehel]

You're right. We'll see what Richt has. The route combinations were pretty drab, but it might be because who he has to work with, he complained a lot about speed, so without a clear out type or something the defense have to actually back off from it make it tough to find room underneath.

My guess and hope if he runs more of a NE Patriots style (at least these past three years) where essentially its have a guy run deep (and his job is to get open deep) while another guy runs underneath and go wherever he wants to to find room, and this is done on one side, while the other side is often a hook go option. The QB just looks deep and based on timing keeps looking there and if he doesn't like it sends it to the under guy.

Do you think we can run option routes with several freshman receivers and possibly a freshman QB? We barely even motioned receivers last year, with a third year starter. I'd be nervous that the QB and WRs wouldn't be on the same page on those option routes.


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These option routes that the Patriots use is almost exclusively timing where Tom Brady looks down field, doesn't like throws to the low player. The QBs eyes are looking deep with the low player in his eyesight, so its not as high risk as you think.

For a freshmen WR for the low player, and high player for that matter, all were saying is get open downfield or get open underneath within the confines of this area, so not tat high risk to be honest, especially if playing to the field side.

My guess is he's gonna hammer the **** out of the RPO world (not sure if he'll pick on mid level player or high level players or maybe both) and with the guys he has big plays will happen since they are quick hitters and you want guys with burst.

 

[scrantoncane]

You're right. We'll see what Richt has. The route combinations were pretty drab, but it might be because who he has to work with, he complained a lot about speed, so without a clear out type or something the defense have to actually back off from it make it tough to find room underneath.

My guess and hope if he runs more of a NE Patriots style (at least these past three years) where essentially its have a guy run deep (and his job is to get open deep) while another guy runs underneath and go wherever he wants to to find room, and this is done on one side, while the other side is often a hook go option. The QB just looks deep and based on timing keeps looking there and if he doesn't like it sends it to the under guy.

Do you think we can run option routes with several freshman receivers and possibly a freshman QB? We barely even motioned receivers last year, with a third year starter. I'd be nervous that the QB and WRs wouldn't be on the same page on those option routes.


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These option routes that the Patriots use is almost exclusively timing where Tom Brady looks down field, doesn't like throws to the low player. The QBs eyes are looking deep with the low player in his eyesight, so its not as high risk as you think.

For a freshmen WR for the low player, and high player for that matter, all were saying is get open downfield or get open underneath within the confines of this area, so not tat high risk to be honest, especially if playing to the field side.

My guess is he's gonna hammer the **** out of the RPO world (not sure if he'll pick on mid level player or high level players or maybe both) and with the guys he has big plays will happen since they are quick hitters and you want guys with burst.

Tom Brady can look deep and keep the underneath guy in his eyesight, but I am going to need to see it from one of our guys before I believe it. It's been a while since we've had a QB that can go through his progressions.

The quick hit offense had success towards the end of last season. I'd imagine it should only get better with the playmakers we have.

I think I read a quote from one of the players this week saying all they've been practicing is quick, short routes. That could be why Sheriffs is (apparently) leading the race.

 

[Paskudnyak]

Travis Homer

7 rushing attempts
0 touchdowns
1 fumble


Those are some SMD numbers

As a true freshman behind 2 vets...small sample size... STFU!

**** you

 

[scrantoncane]

Trent Harris is going to play 10 years in the NFL......

I don't like berrios at the X. It hasn't worked thus far. To me, BB in slot with JT on outside is a better fit.

I'm a huge Trent Harris guy. Glad the coaches fee the same.


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Hot take: Trent Harris takes Chads starting spot at some point this season


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Bump, because Toolbox comin for that spot. Dude looks like he is shot out of a rocket.

Garvin was BEASTING on the other side. From what I see, he is our best pure pass rusher, even better than 99 (and that's no knock on Jackson, who played real well too).

McIntosh was wreaking havoc inside too. This DL hasn't shown out yet because the defense has been outschemed thus far, but the talent is definitely there.