Avantee Williams arrested

[RF-4CCane]

That's the logical way of doing it; you raise the claim, you carry the burden of proof. Florida flipped those burdens though, and the difference is pretty significant. Again, the State has to DISPROVE the claim of self-defense once the defendant has alleged it. The obvious follow up question is "why the h*ll is the burden on the State?" The answer is the Florida Legislature let the NRA write the law.

I've always said, if you know what you're doing, you can easily get away with murder in Florida.

Try reading the statute, do some research then post again.
Talk about a post being completely absent of factual basis.
Presumed innocent is a foreign term for you evidently.

 

[IncaneInTheBrain]

Try reading the statute, do some research then post again.
Talk about a post being completely absent of factual basis.
Presumed innocent is a foreign term for you evidently.

Defenses are (almost) never presumed, they need to be proven by the defendant in almost all circumstances.

When you assert a defense, you effectively admit that you committed all the elements of the crime, but still should not be held liable.

 

[RF-4CCane]

You should still read the statute.
The first step in a SYG case is appearing before a judge and convincing him of your immunity under SYG. Not the other way around.

 

[RF-4CCane]

“When the defendant files a motion to invoke statutory immunity, the trial court must hold a pre-trial evidentiary hearing to determine if the preponderance of the evidence warrants immunity. See State v. Yaqubie, 51 So.3d 474, 476 (Fla. 3d DCA 2010).

At the hearing, the trial court must weigh and decide factual disputes regarding the defendant’s use of force to determine whether to dismiss the case based on immunity. Peterson v. State, 983 So.2d 27, 29 (Fla. 1st DCA 2008).

At a hearing to determine whether a defendant is entitled to immunity, the defendant must first present a prima facie claim of immunity on the issue of whether the “stand your ground” or “castle doctrine” immunity attaches to his or her actions, after which the burden of proof shifts to the State to prove by clear and convincing evidence that the defendant is not entitled to immunity. § 776.032(4), Fla. Stat.

During the evidentiary hearing, the trial court considers the disputed issues of fact and must make a finding under the preponderance of the evidence standard. The court can dismiss the charges or allow the prosecution to proceed.“

 

[CaneThang2020]

And very surprised article didn’t say former Miami Hurricane

ESPN dropped an article earlier today - you know that had to attach our name to him. At least they included Maryland though “Ex-Miami, Maryland football player arrested for murder”.

Knew it was too good to be true

 

[UMFarArcher]

Here's an article from 2007 where a guy was prosecuted for firing 14 shots at 3 guys who were trying to run him over. The DA, Barry Krischer, tried to argue that the first 5 shots were self defense, but the next 9 constituted first degree murder.

Man Acquitted Under Florida's Castle Doctrine

From yesterday's Palm Beach Post: By LARRY KELLER Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Wednesday, June 27, 2007 State Attorney Barry Krischer doesn't like the Castle Doctrine self-defense law used to acquit Norman Borden of murder on Monday, but he says he has no misgivings about prosecuting the...

www.1911forum.com

That argument that one can't just BELIEVE his life is in danger - but one must assume what a NORMAL/AVERAGE person would believe - is BS.

There's a very obvious flaw in that logic.

Some men are not average in either skills or experiences. There are men who served the US in the military in war - and they were conditioned to eliminate their enemies - to protect not only themselves - but their brothers in arms.

Once combat is initiated - and the shooting starts - an experienced combat soldier will kill everything in sight as this is required - and is NORMAL.

Unlike a guy who works in a dry cleaners and was faced with the same threat - mistakenly THINKING he would only shoot them in the leg to end the attack, as most candya**es might think.

That case says he put five through the windshield, and the remaining rounds through the driver's side window.

That's called, a "flanking" movement and the ideal application of a crossfire shifting to defilade fire. This flanking movement is one of the oldest, most effective tactics ever used since who-flung-the-chunk thousands of years ago.

NORMAL to everyone - in combat.

Then, there's the combat mindset developed over time - in combat - especially when attacked. You must remain calm and work the problem - until the threat no longer exists.

Flanking is often just instinctive - as you avoid their frontal threat, and hit them from the side - where they're more vulnerable to your attack - than you are to their attack.

So I'd suggest the standard of what's "reasonable," or "rational" to be measured by what is "normal," is a very vague non-definite standard.

What's normal for me - won't be normal for a candya** who's never taken scalps. But I won't be following up on the street with a follow on head shot in each one as I'd normally do after a firefight.

The so-called "law" is FOS in matters of defense, justification, and reality.

 

[RF-4CCane]

That argument that one can't just BELIEVE his life is in danger - but one must assume what a NORMAL/AVERAGE person would believe - is BS.

There's a very obvious flaw in that logic.

Some men are not average in either skills or experiences. There are men who served the US in the military in war - and they were conditioned to eliminate their enemies - to protect not only themselves - but their brothers in arms.

Once combat is initiated - and the shooting starts - an experienced combat soldier will kill everything in sight as this is required - and is NORMAL.

Unlike a guy who works in a dry cleaners and was faced with the same threat - mistakenly THINKING he would only shoot them in the leg to end the attack, as most candya**es might think.

That case says he put five through the windshield, and the remaining rounds through the driver's side window.

That's called, a "flanking" movement and the ideal application of a crossfire shifting to defilade fire. This flanking movement is one of the oldest, most effective tactics ever used since who-flung-the-chunk thousands of years ago.

NORMAL to everyone - in combat.

Then, there's the combat mindset developed over time - in combat - especially when attacked. You must remain calm and work the problem - until the threat no longer exists.

Flanking is often just instinctive - as you avoid their frontal threat, and hit them from the side - where they're more vulnerable to your attack - than you are to their attack.

So I'd suggest the standard of what's "reasonable," or "rational" to be measured by what is "normal," is a very vague non-definite standard.

What's normal for me - won't be normal for a candya** who's never taken scalps. But I won't be following up on the street with a follow on head shot in each one as I'd normally do after a firefight.

The so-called "law" is FOS in matters of defense, justification, and reality.

The only threat the Barry Krischer’s of the world, have ever known, is when their filet at Raindancer came out medium well.

They’ve never had a S&W, Sig, AK or T-72 pointed at them.

 

[JD08]

That argument that one can't just BELIEVE his life is in danger - but one must assume what a NORMAL/AVERAGE person would believe - is BS.

There's a very obvious flaw in that logic.

Some men are not average in either skills or experiences. There are men who served the US in the military in war - and they were conditioned to eliminate their enemies - to protect not only themselves - but their brothers in arms.

Once combat is initiated - and the shooting starts - an experienced combat soldier will kill everything in sight as this is required - and is NORMAL.

Unlike a guy who works in a dry cleaners and was faced with the same threat - mistakenly THINKING he would only shoot them in the leg to end the attack, as most candya**es might think.

That case says he put five through the windshield, and the remaining rounds through the driver's side window.

That's called, a "flanking" movement and the ideal application of a crossfire shifting to defilade fire. This flanking movement is one of the oldest, most effective tactics ever used since who-flung-the-chunk thousands of years ago.

NORMAL to everyone - in combat.

Then, there's the combat mindset developed over time - in combat - especially when attacked. You must remain calm and work the problem - until the threat no longer exists.

Flanking is often just instinctive - as you avoid their frontal threat, and hit them from the side - where they're more vulnerable to your attack - than you are to their attack.

So I'd suggest the standard of what's "reasonable," or "rational" to be measured by what is "normal," is a very vague non-definite standard.

What's normal for me - won't be normal for a candya** who's never taken scalps. But I won't be following up on the street with a follow on head shot in each one as I'd normally do after a firefight.

The so-called "law" is FOS in matters of defense, justification, and reality.

I remember seeing the windshield way back when this happened. His grouping was fantastic. The fact that there were 3 of them at night means he was going to shoot until he was certain they were no longer a threat.

The side note on all of this is that while Krischer kept him in jail to showboat, they euthanized his dogs and the gang burned his house down.

 

[Atom Atlas]

ESPN dropped an article earlier today - you know that had to attach our name to him. At least they included Maryland though “Ex-Miami, Maryland football player arrested for murder”.

Knew it was too good to be true

Well he was a former Miami and Maryland player.... It's not a conspiracy...

 

[RF-4CCane]

I remember seeing the windshield way back when this happened. His grouping was fantastic. The fact that there were 3 of them at night means he was going to shoot until he was certain they were no longer a threat.

The side note on all of this is that while Krischer kept him in jail to showboat, they euthanized his dogs and the gang burned his house down.

Krischer is such a POS. While he was a DA, I had a guy pull a .357 on me in a road rage situation. All I did was honk my horn because he cut me off at the PB Lakes Blvd- Okeechobee merge.
He rolled down his window and pointed it right at me, right in front of his wife’s face.
Even though I had a .45acp at hands reach, I didn’t escalate. It was heavy rush hour traffic.
So I slowed enough to let him get ahead of me. I acted like I was pulling into the turnpike entrance, did a UTurn and followed him from 6 cars back. I waited until he entered the gate of a gated community, pulled up and told the rent a cops.
It was the most excitement they’d probably had in a while. One called PBSO, the other sped off to see where he went.
Deputies arrived and I described the gun down to make, color and caliber. They pulled his *** out of the gym, searched his car and found the gun exactly as described, arrested him and handed him over to WPB police.
For 6 months Barry’s POS prosecutor called me asking to drop the charges. I refused.
Court date came and judge was going to let him off with a written apology and community service.
Staring right at the judge I shook my head so that he saw me.
He asked if I wanted to address the court. I said yes and approached the mic, and laid it on thick explaining that if someone ahead of him had put on their brakes he could have killed me or someone else and given his wife severe powder burns to the face.
The judge sat for a minute and reversed his sentence to two years probation.

 

[Travis Bickle]

There it is

In my feed, "Maryland" is missing, lol.

 

[Greentree]

Florida has stand your ground, its a whole different ball game (regular self-defense still exists, but much harder to prove). (Pre-trial) SYG asks whether the State can DISPROVE your claim that you reasonably feared for life or serious bodily injury by clear and convincing evidence.

You can also can't claim SYG if you were engaged in an illegal activity. If the gun was illegal -> no SYG.

What makes the gun illegal?

The mere fact that it was brought into the bar? Or does there have to be more, for example he was felon in possession of the gun?

If taking the gun into the bar makes it illegal, does it become legal again if you leave the bar and the shooting happens outside the bar? (Doesn't seem like that is the case here....just curious).

Not a fan of self defense shifting the burden. It almost like claiming self defense is a detriment and excuses the state of having to prove the charges they bring against you.

 

[Greentree]

Defenses are (almost) never presumed, they need to be proven by the defendant in almost all circumstances.

When you assert a defense, you effectively admit that you committed all the elements of the crime, but still should not be held liable.

Except the intent element.

 

[UMFarArcher]

I remember seeing the windshield way back when this happened. His grouping was fantastic. The fact that there were 3 of them at night means he was going to shoot until he was certain they were no longer a threat.

The side note on all of this is that while Krischer kept him in jail to showboat, they euthanized his dogs and the gang burned his house down.

I never saw that - but if his grouping was good - his follow up by flanking them under pressure like that shows cool, analytical, tactical excellence.

That's a man to ride the river with!

 

[UMFarArcher]

What makes the gun illegal?

The mere fact that it was brought into the bar? Or does there have to be more, for example he was felon in possession of the gun?

If taking the gun into the bar makes it illegal, does it become legal again if you leave the bar and the shooting happens outside the bar? (Doesn't seem like that is the case here....just curious).

Not a fan of self defense shifting the burden. It almost like claiming self defense is a detriment and excuses the state of having to prove the charges they bring against you.

I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express - but unless it's changed recently - carrying a firearm into a bar - that's a no-no.

It's worse than taking a sleeping pill and a laxative at bedtime.

The problem with law - is the dammed(sp) lawyers.

Hair splitters. No right. No wrong. Just twist the law any way you can to win.

I have a feeling that lawyers in Heaven are going to be outnumbered by mass murderers.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Krischer is such a POS. While he was a DA, I had a guy pull a .357 on me in a road rage situation. All I did was honk my horn because he cut me off at the PB Lakes Blvd- Okeechobee merge.
He rolled down his window and pointed it right at me, right in front of his wife’s face.
Even though I had a .45acp at hands reach, I didn’t escalate. It was heavy rush hour traffic.
So I slowed enough to let him get ahead of me. I acted like I was pulling into the turnpike entrance, did a UTurn and followed him from 6 cars back. I waited until he entered the gate of a gated community, pulled up and told the rent a cops.
It was the most excitement they’d probably had in a while. One called PBSO, the other sped off to see where he went.
Deputies arrived and I described the gun down to make, color and caliber. They pulled his *** out of the gym, searched his car and found the gun exactly as described, arrested him and handed him over to WPB police.
For 6 months Barry’s POS prosecutor called me asking to drop the charges. I refused.
Court date came and judge was going to let him off with a written apology and community service.
Staring right at the judge I shook my head so that he saw me.
He asked if I wanted to address the court. I said yes and approached the mic, and laid it on thick explaining that if someone ahead of him had put on their brakes he could have killed me or someone else and given his wife severe powder burns to the face.
The judge sat for a minute and reversed his sentence to two years probation.

Hope he lost his ability to own a firearm - forever.

 

[canes461]

Well he was a former Miami and Maryland player.... It's not a conspiracy...

Wrong.








Everything is a conspiracy these days...

 

[RF-4CCane]

Hope he lost his ability to own a firearm - forever.

Nope. He was charged with illegal brandishment of a firearm. A 1st degree misdemeanor rather than a felony charge, which would have caused him to lose his right to a firearm.

 

[CaneSinceForEver]

Didn't we kick him off the team for something a few years back

No, He remained on the team after the DV charges were dropped, also played for Mario in 22'.

 

[Rickd]

What makes the gun illegal?

The mere fact that it was brought into the bar? Or does there have to be more, for example he was felon in possession of the gun?

If taking the gun into the bar makes it illegal, does it become legal again if you leave the bar and the shooting happens outside the bar? (Doesn't seem like that is the case here....just curious).

Not a fan of self defense shifting the burden. It almost like claiming self defense is a detriment and excuses the state of having to prove the charges they bring against you.

It is against the law for ANYONE .... even those with concealed carry licenses .... to carry a gun into a bar that serves alcohol. One of the first topics covered in concealed carry courses. Leave it locked in your car.