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Another Mark Walton arrest video

Lance Let-go-of-it said:
[I had some personal matters to deal with and just now finding the time to reply]

Yes, I did seriously ask you to do that, but didn't seriously think that you would. Operationalizing psychological constructs is extremely difficult and I don't think people appreciate the complexity involved. Instead, you say that you used logic and common sense? Well, I say that I also used logic and common sense. See the problem with this?

However, I didn't JUST use logic and common sense. I used clinical intuition derived from years of experience treating people with brain diseases. I also used the clinical criteria that's been proposed to diagnose CTE in living people (yes, it's only proposed for now but it's a solid place to start).

This is a list of the clinical observations I made about Mark's presentation in that 10-min. video: cognitive impairment (confusion, memory issues), emotional dysregulation (irritability, violent outbursts), emotional lability (mood swings), perceptual abnormalities (paranoia, distorted reality), poor distress tolerance, impulsivity, impaired judgment.

Are you really suggesting that being immature or a **** includes someone having perceptual abnormalities, cognitive impairment, and poor distress tolerance? I doubt that you are.

You do make a good point about alcohol as a complicating factor. For many conditions in the DSM-5 you often see something like this: "the disturbance is not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance" that, if met, would rule-out a particular diagnosis. However there are several videos of Mark demonstrating at least some of the clinical features I listed above, which suggests a consistent pattern of behavior.

Could he have been using in every video? Sure, that's a possibility, but then this suggests that he may have some type of substance-use disorder, which as you know is a psychiatric illness.

You seem like an intelligent, reasonable guy and I appreciate your willingness to offer alternative explanations; you have more balls than a lot of the ignorant, contrarian clowns on here. However, his clinical presentation simply cannot be accounted for or explained by being immature, spoiled, entitled, or a ****.
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But I am 100% suggesting Walton being a **** who needs to mature is absolutely a possibility. I've never said anything about him being entitled or spoiled.

My feeling on Mark is people on this board have always had ways of making excuses for him, which made sense because he had such a harsh background that people really wanted to see him succeed. I get it. The narrative was always "He's a great player, and a great person". But was he really ever either?

As a Player - Walton had way more bad games than good at Miami. A lot of very smart people with tons of experience in football (like you have experience in your field) gave "reasons" ranging from - He was too young, he was injured, he had more plays called back than anyone, the coaching was bad, the play calling was bad, the OL play was bad, etc.. I always thought the answer was much more simple and obvious - He's not a very good athlete and just not that good of a player - and that's why he had so many bad games. Simple.

People might see his convulsive celebrating after a meaningless run in a meaningless game, or throwing a fit after getting pulled out of a game that was already over, or jumping and waving his hands to get the offense play call in as "Passionate". I always just saw them as a bit spastic and over-dramatic.

As a Person - People always said he was a great person, and I always thought that was true. But maybe he just wasn't. I mean - people always said he was great player, and he wasn't - so maybe this is the same. Just like people didn't want to believe he wasn't a good player, so all his bad games had "reasons" - people don't want to believe he's not a good guy - so he's a bipolar, multiple personality, schizophrenic with CTE. People don't want to think maybe he's just a dude making bad decisions - so they think there's got to be some medical "reasons" for them.

All the symptoms you say shows Walton likely has CTE - confusion, memory issues, irritability, violent outbursts, mood swings, paranoia, distorted reality, poor distress tolerance, impulsivity, impaired judgment - I think if you watch any episode of COPS you'll see a 10 minute video of someone getting arrested displaying all these same "symptoms" - doesn't make me think it's CTE. At any bar in America that's crowded with 23 year old alpha males - you're gonna see a dude showing these same symptoms. I think there's a "possibility" you might be way overthinking this.

I don't see anything in this video that rules out the possibility of him simply making some dumb decisions. I REALLY don't see it in any other video - so not sure what you or anyone else is referring to there.

In the end - I look at things more simply. Again, I am no medical professional so if you ask me to explain medical reasons for my take on things - I can't do that. If a random 22 year old college student gets drunk and ends up getting arrested for getting in a fight - I don't think he probably had substance abuse issues along with major brain trauma, and/or psychological problems. I just think he was being a dumb college student who did some dumb sh^t. I don't think you need a medical background or reasons to think someone is immature or acting like an ***. Using logic/common sense to decide if someone's acting like an a-hole is much, much different than using logic/common sense to decide if someone's suffering from serious and progressive brain disease.
 
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bshaw28 said:
But I am 100% suggesting Walton being a **** who needs to mature is absolutely a possibility. I've never said anything about him being entitled or spoiled.

My feeling on Mark is people on this board have always had ways of making excuses for him, which made sense because he had such a harsh background that people really wanted to see him succeed. I get it. The narrative was always "He's a great player, and a great person". But was he really ever either?

As a Player - Walton had way more bad games than good at Miami. A lot of very smart people with tons of experience in football (like you have experience in your field) gave "reasons" ranging from - He was too young, he was injured, he had more plays called back than anyone, the coaching was bad, the play calling was bad, the OL play was bad, etc.. I always thought the answer was much more simple and obvious - He's not a very good athlete and just not that good of a player - and that's why he had so many bad games. Simple.

People might see his convulsive celebrating after a meaningless run in a meaningless game, or throwing a fit after getting pulled out of a game that was already over, or jumping and waving his hands to get the offense play call in as "Passionate". I always just saw them as a bit spastic and over-dramatic.

As a Person - People always said he was a great person, and I always thought that was true. But maybe he just wasn't. I mean - people always said he was great player, and he wasn't - so maybe this is the same. Just like people didn't want to believe he wasn't a good player, so all his bad games had "reasons" - people don't want to believe he's not a good guy - so he's a bipolar, multiple personality, schizophrenic with CTE. People don't want to think maybe he's just a dude making bad decisions - so they think there's got to be some medical "reasons" for them.

All the symptoms you say shows Walton likely has CTE - confusion, memory issues, irritability, violent outbursts, mood swings, paranoia, distorted reality, poor distress tolerance, impulsivity, impaired judgment - I think if you watch any episode of COPS you'll see a 10 minute video of someone getting arrested displaying all these same "symptoms" - doesn't make me think it's CTE. At any bar in America that's crowded with 23 year old alpha males - you're gonna see a dude showing these same symptoms. I think there's a "possibility" you might be way overthinking this.

I don't see anything in this video that rules out the possibility of him simply making some dumb decisions. I REALLY don't see it in any other video - so not sure what you or anyone else is referring to there.

In the end - I look at things more simply. Again, I am no medical professional so if you ask me to explain medical reasons for my take on things - I can't do that. If a random 22 year old college student gets drunk and ends up getting arrested for getting in a fight - I don't think he probably had substance abuse issues along with major brain trauma, and/or psychological problems. I just think he was being a dumb college student who did some dumb sh^t. I don't think you need a medical background or reasons to think someone is immature or acting like an ***. Using logic/common sense to decide if someone's acting like an a-hole is much, much different than using logic/common sense to decide if someone's suffering from serious and progressive brain disease.
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You keep bringing up the example of a 23 y.o. drunk guy getting into a bar fight. As I've mentioned before, one isolated behavioral event does not suggest a psychiatric illness or brain condition. Maybe the drunk guy has a psychiatric illness and maybe he doesn't, it's impossible to say without clinical observation. You do seem to underestimate the prevalence of psychiatric illness though. It's more common than you think. I saw a recent study showing that 40% of adults in the US have a diagnosable mental illness.

A pattern that's emerged in your posts is your dismissiveness of expert opinion. Regarding Mark as football player, you say that people with "tons of experience in football" provided their reasons for his lackluster performance; yet, you dismiss their analysis. You acknowledge that I have experience in my field, yet you also ignore my clinical impressions.

Consider this: you and a board-certified radiologist are both looking at the same x-ray image of a lung. To you the image appears unremarkable, just a grainy picture in shades of grey and black. Looking at the same image the radiologist, based on his training and experience, is able to gather critical clinical information from the subtle shading, contours and shadows. If he were to tell you he sees something troubling, would you really argue with him? Well, that's what you're doing with me (in behavioral health, providers rely on clinical observation of behavior, emotion, speech etc. These things are our x-rays).

You like "simple" reasons for things, especially human behavior. It's easier and tidier to simply chalk up Mark's behavior to being a "bad person" or whatever. I get it. But, you have absolutely no idea how to interpret what you're seeing. You don't even know what you are looking for to begin with and resort to simple, spurious explanations out of ignorance and a lack of understanding.


Side-note: You said Mark was "not a very good athlete and just not that good of a player." Didn't he make it to the NFL? It seems he may have at least been a decent athlete and football player.
 
Mark was an NFL starting RB at one short time, please give him at least that.

Unless you’ve experienced mental illness in someone close to you then many have no idea of his sufferings of the family .

The horror of living and waiting for the next shoe to drop 24-7 never a peaceful anything, it’s a very tough life to even attempt to grasp.

Pray for Mercy for Mark and all he holds dear .

GOCANES
 
I believe that if they ever let out the percentage of the populous that are bipolar and these type mental disorders and blasted the news with this COVID people sick would seem like sniffle or a sneeze in comparison .

My own father was bipolar and one night went out bought 3 cars , laugh imagine the nightmare when they delivered them to my door as I answered the door as. Little kid .

That’s one of many stories that gets even nightmarish many night at the VA hospital many even now it effects me witnessing my mother crying
 
I thank you all for the up votes , those are little Prayers for the many whom are sick and can’t help themselves.

After my Dads meds got adjusted at the VA for 30-45 days he never remembered anything he did nor did we ever bring the nightmares up again.

He died alone in a special VA hospital ward of the toxicity of the medication because there ever increased till you die .

Medication are better now but you can NEVER stop because you think your feeling better and when you do the reaper is always waiting for you.

Thank you all again 🙏❤️
 
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Lance Let-go-of-it said:
You keep bringing up the example of a 23 y.o. drunk guy getting into a bar fight. As I've mentioned before, one isolated behavioral event does not suggest a psychiatric illness or brain condition. Maybe the drunk guy has a psychiatric illness and maybe he doesn't, it's impossible to say without clinical observation. You do seem to underestimate the prevalence of psychiatric illness though. It's more common than you think. I saw a recent study showing that 40% of adults in the US have a diagnosable mental illness.

A pattern that's emerged in your posts is your dismissiveness of expert opinion. Regarding Mark as football player, you say that people with "tons of experience in football" provided their reasons for his lackluster performance; yet, you dismiss their analysis. You acknowledge that I have experience in my field, yet you also ignore my clinical impressions.

Consider this: you and a board-certified radiologist are both looking at the same x-ray image of a lung. To you the image appears unremarkable, just a grainy picture in shades of grey and black. Looking at the same image the radiologist, based on his training and experience, is able to gather critical clinical information from the subtle shading, contours and shadows. If he were to tell you he sees something troubling, would you really argue with him? Well, that's what you're doing with me (in behavioral health, providers rely on clinical observation of behavior, emotion, speech etc. These things are our x-rays).

You like "simple" reasons for things, especially human behavior. It's easier and tidier to simply chalk up Mark's behavior to being a "bad person" or whatever. I get it. But, you have absolutely no idea how to interpret what you're seeing. You don't even know what you are looking for to begin with and resort to simple, spurious explanations out of ignorance and a lack of understanding.


Side-note: You said Mark was "not a very good athlete and just not that good of a player." Didn't he make it to the NFL? It seems he may have at least been a decent athlete and football player.
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Let's be clear - your issue with my posts isn't that I'm being dismissive of you. It's that I'm not agreeing with 100% of what you're saying.

I've said multiple times I appreciate the smart analysis you've provided, think mental health issues are very much real, and I don't dispute any of what you said as a possibility except for 1 thing - and that's you saying there's 0% chance he's just a young guy who's making bad decisions, usually when he's been drinking/smoking. I think there's at least a 1% chance that may be the case - and I'm giving my reasons why I think that. Take that as me being ignorant if you'd like. But because I disagreed with this one thing, you keep saying I'm dismissing everything else, which isn't the case.

If a guy hits his girlfriend on multiple occasions - I feel it's fair for myself or anyone to assume that guy "might" not be a good guy. Why would you dismiss that opinion because the person making it doesn't have a medical background? That's like if I said I don't think Mark Pope isn't a good WR, and your response was "what do you know, you never played in the NFL". See what I mean? You don't have to always be an expert in a certain field to have a valid, sensible opinion. And sometimes the simple answer can be the correct one.

The reason why I say Walton wasn't a very good athlete is because he performed poorly in athletic testing in HS and at the NFL combine. I'm saying it because it was statistically proven multiple times. That isn't my opinion - it's just fact. But people still dismiss that. Compared to other RB's, Walton performed below average athletically, and it's fair to say that probably played a factor in his below average play on the field. There's a ton of other players in the NFL right now that compared to other NFL players at their positions aren't good athletes or players.
 
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L A M P said:
His 589 days in local jail was probably an eternity compared to the 2 1/2 years left in prison. Hard part is over. Get help. Come out with a plan! Godspeed.
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Easy to say. You’ve never stared 30 months of prison in the face before I’m sure. It’s not easy

His only hope is that he stays quiet and doesn’t socialize too much. In there you can make great connections or terrible connections
 
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rsa coral gables said:
this is a tragic fall for Walton.

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That train was coming down the track..........we all saw it....but it just did not make it to the station.....the wild ride continues, but help does not guarantee it stays on track
Train GIF
Walton is a sad example of wasted talent.
 
U Know said:
Once his mom died, it changed the trajectory of his life.
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I try not to make excuses for people and I’m all about accountability but when I lost my mother I felt lost for 4-5 years. Focusing on my business is the only thing that kept me somewhat sane. Tbh I’ve still never fully recovered.

So I understand this.

Btw every time I see this thread bumped I get nervous.
 
I took my kids to CanesFest or whatever it was called at Hardrock years ago. Mark Walton was close to us and he was about to come over to let me get a pic with my kids. When he started to sort of lean in towards us, he got mobbed by a bunch of people. It looked like we wouldn't get our pic. He looked at me, over the mob, giving me sort of a look that said "hey, sorry about that, gimmie a second and I'll be right back." After the 10 or so pics he took with the mob, he came back and took a pic with my kids. Went out of his way, and basically "honored" his look/promise.

I thought then that this kid is very mature. He went out of his way to make sure my kids weren't disappointed. This must have been before his mom died. He seemed together, mature and happy. I left that occasion thinking he was a good kid.

I tried to get pics with some of the big nasties on the DL. Granted they were exhausted, but much less nice, pretty much making us feel like we were bothering them. Which I'm sure we were, but that's what that event is for.

Anyway, sad about Mark. He made a good impression on me. I hope he gets it together. I'll be praying for him.
 
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