forums

After we fire Golden, let's not over-correct

Advertisement
[]_[] swag;2278423 said:
mjackson6 said:
Like Butch Davis said recently. Someone has to be able to recognize talent and coach the **** out of them.

That's what it takes at this level. We can't miss on multiple guys every cycle that end up being great, out of our backyard, and we never offer. Or vice versa, offer and get someone that ends up being completely over rated or just gets on campus and isn't coached the right way.

Don't know for sure what's going on at UM right now but it's some combination of evaluating players and coaching players. I don't think its one or the other.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this idea that the staff can't evaluate and develop players. It keeps being brought up but the evidence just doesn't back it up. You can't say the staff doesn't develop players but just put 8 rookies on NFL rosters, the majority of whom were three stars or lower.

The real problem is all about in game coaching, making adjustments, and putting the players in the right position to win football games.
Click to expand...

I said it's not completely one or the other. It's a combination of both. They have some good evaluations and get guys that are as good as they should be and get a few guys that are better than what everyone thought. They have success coaching players and developing them, they fail at developing other guys. They have to do better.

Right now I feel like we are probably about 50% on our evaluations when we should be at least 80% (what I mean by that is if we recruit 10 blue chips/4* or better 8 or more end up being starters or really big contributors depending on depth. Then, if you are going to take a chance and trust your own evaluations and take under the radar guys, we can't miss on half of them everytime.) Too many Jelani Hamilton situations going on at UM. Come in highly touted and never produce. Or it's a D'Mauri Jones situation and according to the guys recruiting him he was under the radar and a stud and does nothing. Almost every under the radar player we got when Butch was here produced. If he was highly touted, he produced.

I get it, rating systems are more efficient now than they were in the 90s but there are guys that we pass on because our staff thinks they are over rated and end up being studs like recruiting sites projected. And there are guys that everyone on this board calls underrated and watches them play every Friday and they ball out, yet never get an offer and end up being good in college.
 
the storm said:
Refresh my memory; did Butch ever beat FSU?

drifters1234 said:
Hire Butch Davis, and you don't have to fret about all of this.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

either you're not a Cane fan or your being sarcastic...so I'm going to err on the side of sarcasm to give you the benefit of the doubt. Go Watch the U part 2 and see if Butch beat FSU or not. Go see BCS ***** job to see if Butch beat FSU.
 
dycane said:
Against my better judgment, the only coordinator I would consider is Kiffin. And the only reason I would consider him is Saban. Saban has no tolerance for incompetence. And he's also very risk averse. I was shocked when he hired Kiffin. And I've been equally shocked that Kiffin stuck and flourished under the heavy hand of Saban. It can't be easy working for Nick. But it's got to be one of, if not the best, training programs a young coach can go through (presuming he can survive). I think at this point it's pretty clear Kiffin is a legitimate offensive mind. And we know he can recruit. The question is whether he's matured and learned enough under Saban to be able to properly administer a major program and coaching staff. With trepidation, I would be willing to take the risk that he has, but only if we struck out on Butch or a Pinkel-type, as Franchise suggested.
Click to expand...

[MENTION=1685]dycane[/MENTION]: can you list a Nick Saban coaching tree?
 
CaneInTheBrain said:
CanesAreAble said:
CaneInTheBrain said:
Saban coached at Michigan State, won a national title at LSU, coached the Dolphins before Alabama would hire him.

Harbaugh coached Stanford to a PAC 12 championship, coached the 49ers before Michigan hired him.

Why is it that Alabama and Michigan won't sniff these coaches until they've built up a strong track record, but at Miami we're supposed to be happy with some low-level coordinator?
Click to expand...



Coaches have to be AVAILABLE.

Alabama had a lot of fail in between Gene Stallings and Nick Saban.

Michigan failed with Rich Rod and Brady Hoke. ****, Rich Rod almost took West Virginia to the national championship game, and was a disaster.

You act as if it's easy to know who's going to be successful.
Click to expand...

You do what you can to stack the odds in your favor.

Al Golden proves that the MAC is a different animal from Miami. I don't want a MAC coach. Going 12-2 at Western Michigan proves nothing... see Larry Fedora.

All of our coaches that we have had success with in the past have either had NFL head coaching experience, or they were head coaches at NCAA schools who played top competition regularly.
Click to expand...

Umm, no. Howard was an NFL coordinator, Jimmy was at Oklahoma State when the conference was dominated by two teams, Dennis was a HC at Idaho/Wyoming/Washington State, and Butch was never a HC.
 
omaha said:
Maybe many are too young to remember that Butch Davis was 8-4 regular season in his 5 the season. Many on the boards wanted him gone. "Was a terrible game day coach". "Wasted Edge James Career" many said. "Did not know how to use all world athlete Kenny Kelly". Some of us said the program was heading in a good direction. We were not called slurpers but something similar and many would continue to ask to fly the banner "Fire Butch". Now he is the savior of Miami? Am I the only one who remembered 1999?
Click to expand...

[MENTION=8638]omaha[/MENTION]: Yes, the banner did fly b/c we wanted results, ASAP. Recall that Butch had just taken over a team that went to the national title game the year prior. Under Erickson, the team went to 4 national title games going 2-2 in them. He inherited a team that was absolutely rocked by the NCAA (NOTHING that Golden even remotely endured). Our expectations were a bit "off-color and unrealistic" looking back.

However, even with that being the case, we went 8-3 in his first year, winning the Big East but banned from bowl play. 31 scholly's lost from 1996-1998, that's what Butch had to deal with. He also had to deal w/ a bunch of unruly knuckleheads who were apart of the "player friendly" regime from Erickson...so he had to kick several players off the team as well. He literally had ish to work w/; and still, he managed to win his conference 3x, including going 4-0 in bowl games and beat a top 2 team in the nation.

What you see from Cane fans now is a realization that Butch was a dang good coach while he was here. The expression, "you don't appreciate it, until its gone" is what many Cane fans are experiencing. We gave Butch an unnecessary hard time, maybe b/c we were a bunch of spoiled fans being accustomed to either playing for the national championship or being in it's discussion. Butch endured one of the worst football sanctions ever in NCAA history and he succeeded; yet, at the time, we didn't realize that we were being unrealistic while he was here.

Golden has had to endure nothing. A total of 3 lost scholly's per year and he still can't beat slop teams in the ACC Coastal? He's outrecruited dang near every opponent that have been on our schedule since his tenure and he's a pedestrian 28-22 including going 1-3 against UVA....UVA!!!! This is not a repeat of what happened w/ Butch...not even close. This is a parody of what happened w/ Butch.
Now, I'm not saying that what Golden inherited was perfect, but it's definitely no where near what Butch inherited.

I'm pretty sure that if someone were to tell you that a coach had the following:
-No. 6 and No. 21 Safeties in the Nation
-No.7 and No. 9 DTs in the Nation
-No. 5 and No. 17 LBs in the nation
-No. 2, No. 3, and No. 7 WDE in the nation
-No. 13 and No. 28 WR in the nation
-No. 1 and No. 9 RBs in the nation
-No. 1 and No. 15 DB in the nation
-2 No. 11 and No. 20 OL in the nation
-No. 7 ATH in the nation
-No. 3 SDE in the nation, and
-No. 8 QB in the nation

To top that off, this same coach had 2 first round draft picks, 5 players drafted in the top 3 rounds and a total of 7 drafted, but he went 6-7 and has gone 28-22 including 16-16 in a subpar division. What should be his fate?
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
CaneInTheBrain said:
CanesAreAble said:
After we fired Coker, we wanted a hard-nosed guy that would re-emphasize south Florida recruiting.

After we fired Shannon, we wanted a guy with good communication skills who had experience building a program.

I think the gut reaction now is to hire some fire-breathing defensive coach who will have guys flying off the edge. That's how you can end up with a coach like Muschamp or Bo Pellini.

Just because Golden was from a mid-major doesn't mean we shouldn't look for talent at non-Power 5 schools. I remember during our last hiring cycle, people said "no more coordinators" because of Coker's and Shannon's failings. Well ****, we could've had Gus Malzahn. Dude took a 3-9 team and went to the championship game in year one.

I don't necessarily want the guy with the best résumé. The best coaches tend to be smart, obsessive guys that are always tinkering, looking for any competitive edge. Those guys are out there. We just have to do our homework.

And if it means hiring the guy at Western Michigan or whatever, so be it. We can't let Golden's failure poison the well.
Click to expand...

NO MORE MAC COACHES.

If this admin hires a coach from some dirthole like Marshall or Western Kentucky A&M... I'm flying a **** banner
Click to expand...

Really? I'd take the coach at Marshall. Do some **** research.
 
CaneInTheBrain said:
CanesAreAble said:
CaneInTheBrain said:
You do what you can to stack the odds in your favor.

Al Golden proves that the MAC is a different animal from Miami. I don't want a MAC coach. Going 12-2 at Western Michigan proves nothing... see Larry Fedora.

All of our coaches that we have had success with in the past have either had NFL head coaching experience, or they were head coaches at NCAA schools who played top competition regularly.
Click to expand...



Al Golden proves nothing. Plenty of great coaches came from smaller schools.

Schnelly, Jimmy Johnson, and Dennis Erickson were innovators. You're overly concerned with the résumé. ****, Wannstedt has a good CV. He's taken multiple NFL franchises to the playoffs, and won multiple bowl games at Pitt.

You want Wanny?
Click to expand...

Larry Fedora was a great coach at the lower levels, so was James Franklin. Now they're on the hot seat.

Remember Brady Hoke? MAC all star. How about Arkansas' John L Smith, Colorado's Mike MacIntyre, or Tennessee's Derek Dooley? All got their start succeeding at MAC-style schools, all fired today.
Click to expand...

The SEC is a lower level?
 
Rellyrell said:
omaha said:
Maybe many are too young to remember that Butch Davis was 8-4 regular season in his 5 the season. Many on the boards wanted him gone. "Was a terrible game day coach". "Wasted Edge James Career" many said. "Did not know how to use all world athlete Kenny Kelly". Some of us said the program was heading in a good direction. We were not called slurpers but something similar and many would continue to ask to fly the banner "Fire Butch". Now he is the savior of Miami? Am I the only one who remembered 1999?
Click to expand...

[MENTION=8638]omaha[/MENTION]: Yes, the banner did fly b/c we wanted results, ASAP. Recall that Butch had just taken over a team that went to the national title game the year prior. Under Erickson, the team went to 4 national title games going 2-2 in them. He inherited a team that was absolutely rocked by the NCAA (NOTHING that Golden even remotely endured). Our expectations were a bit "off-color and unrealistic" looking back.

However, even with that being the case, we went 8-3 in his first year, winning the Big East but banned from bowl play. 31 scholly's lost from 1996-1998, that's what Butch had to deal with. He also had to deal w/ a bunch of unruly knuckleheads who were apart of the "player friendly" regime from Erickson...so he had to kick several players off the team as well. He literally had ish to work w/; and still, he managed to win his conference 3x, including going 4-0 in bowl games and beat a top 2 team in the nation.

What you see from Cane fans now is a realization that Butch was a dang good coach while he was here. The expression, "you don't appreciate it, until its gone" is what many Cane fans are experiencing. We gave Butch an unnecessary hard time, maybe b/c we were a bunch of spoiled fans being accustomed to either playing for the national championship or being in it's discussion. Butch endured one of the worst football sanctions ever in NCAA history and he succeeded; yet, at the time, we didn't realize that we were being unrealistic while he was here.

Golden has had to endure nothing. A total of 3 lost scholly's per year and he still can't beat slop teams in the ACC Coastal? He's outrecruited dang near every opponent that have been on our schedule since his tenure and he's a pedestrian 28-22 including going 1-3 against UVA....UVA!!!! This is not a repeat of what happened w/ Butch...not even close. This is a parody of what happened w/ Butch.
Now, I'm not saying that what Golden inherited was perfect, but it's definitely no where near what Butch inherited.

I'm pretty sure that if someone were to tell you that a coach had the following:
-No. 6 and No. 21 Safeties in the Nation
-No.7 and No. 9 DTs in the Nation
-No. 5 and No. 17 LBs in the nation
-No. 2, No. 3, and No. 7 WDE in the nation
-No. 13 and No. 28 WR in the nation
-No. 1 and No. 9 RBs in the nation
-No. 1 and No. 15 DB in the nation
-2 No. 11 and No. 20 OL in the nation
-No. 7 ATH in the nation
-No. 3 SDE in the nation, and
-No. 8 QB in the nation

To top that off, this same coach had 2 first round draft picks, 5 players drafted in the top 3 rounds and a total of 7 drafted, but he went 6-7 and has gone 28-22 including 16-16 in a subpar division. What should be his fate?
Click to expand...

Death by Ru-Ru !!!
 
Rellyrell said:
omaha said:
Maybe many are too young to remember that Butch Davis was 8-4 regular season in his 5 the season. Many on the boards wanted him gone. "Was a terrible game day coach". "Wasted Edge James Career" many said. "Did not know how to use all world athlete Kenny Kelly". Some of us said the program was heading in a good direction. We were not called slurpers but something similar and many would continue to ask to fly the banner "Fire Butch". Now he is the savior of Miami? Am I the only one who remembered 1999?
Click to expand...

[MENTION=8638]omaha[/MENTION]: Yes, the banner did fly b/c we wanted results, ASAP. Recall that Butch had just taken over a team that went to the national title game the year prior. Under Erickson, the team went to 4 national title games going 2-2 in them. He inherited a team that was absolutely rocked by the NCAA (NOTHING that Golden even remotely endured). Our expectations were a bit "off-color and unrealistic" looking back.

However, even with that being the case, we went 8-3 in his first year, winning the Big East but banned from bowl play. 31 scholly's lost from 1996-1998, that's what Butch had to deal with. He also had to deal w/ a bunch of unruly knuckleheads who were apart of the "player friendly" regime from Erickson...so he had to kick several players off the team as well. He literally had ish to work w/; and still, he managed to win his conference 3x, including going 4-0 in bowl games and beat a top 2 team in the nation.

What you see from Cane fans now is a realization that Butch was a dang good coach while he was here. The expression, "you don't appreciate it, until its gone" is what many Cane fans are experiencing. We gave Butch an unnecessary hard time, maybe b/c we were a bunch of spoiled fans being accustomed to either playing for the national championship or being in it's discussion. Butch endured one of the worst football sanctions ever in NCAA history and he succeeded; yet, at the time, we didn't realize that we were being unrealistic while he was here.

Golden has had to endure nothing. A total of 3 lost scholly's per year and he still can't beat slop teams in the ACC Coastal? He's outrecruited dang near every opponent that have been on our schedule since his tenure and he's a pedestrian 28-22 including going 1-3 against UVA....UVA!!!! This is not a repeat of what happened w/ Butch...not even close. This is a parody of what happened w/ Butch.
Now, I'm not saying that what Golden inherited was perfect, but it's definitely no where near what Butch inherited.

I'm pretty sure that if someone were to tell you that a coach had the following:
-No. 6 and No. 21 Safeties in the Nation
-No.7 and No. 9 DTs in the Nation
-No. 5 and No. 17 LBs in the nation
-No. 2, No. 3, and No. 7 WDE in the nation
-No. 13 and No. 28 WR in the nation
-No. 1 and No. 9 RBs in the nation
-No. 1 and No. 15 DB in the nation
-2 No. 11 and No. 20 OL in the nation
-No. 7 ATH in the nation
-No. 3 SDE in the nation, and
-No. 8 QB in the nation

To top that off, this same coach had 2 first round draft picks, 5 players drafted in the top 3 rounds and a total of 7 drafted, but he went 6-7 and has gone 28-22 including 16-16 in a subpar division. What should be his fate?
Click to expand...
Pretty much sez it all.
BBB
 
rustywalkedaway said:
CaneInTheBrain said:
CanesAreAble said:
CaneInTheBrain said:
Saban coached at Michigan State, won a national title at LSU, coached the Dolphins before Alabama would hire him.

Harbaugh coached Stanford to a PAC 12 championship, coached the 49ers before Michigan hired him.

Why is it that Alabama and Michigan won't sniff these coaches until they've built up a strong track record, but at Miami we're supposed to be happy with some low-level coordinator?
Click to expand...



Coaches have to be AVAILABLE.

Alabama had a lot of fail in between Gene Stallings and Nick Saban.

Michigan failed with Rich Rod and Brady Hoke. ****, Rich Rod almost took West Virginia to the national championship game, and was a disaster.

You act as if it's easy to know who's going to be successful.
Click to expand...

You do what you can to stack the odds in your favor.

Al Golden proves that the MAC is a different animal from Miami. I don't want a MAC coach. Going 12-2 at Western Michigan proves nothing... see Larry Fedora.

All of our coaches that we have had success with in the past have either had NFL head coaching experience, or they were head coaches at NCAA schools who played top competition regularly.
Click to expand...

Umm, no. Howard was an NFL coordinator, Jimmy was at Oklahoma State when the conference was dominated by two teams, Dennis was a HC at Idaho/Wyoming/Washington State, and Butch was never a HC.
Click to expand...
Howard was also HC of the Baltimore Colts for a year or so.
 
Advertisement
just remembered seeing this thread and I forgot to post this...


Golden: known as a guy who doesn't recruit south Florida enough
Cristobal: Guy who grew up in miami, went to UM, and coached at both FIU and UM

History does repeat itself
 
Golden's a complete moron, so the exact opposite of him would be like Stephen Hawking or some ****. Not a lot of astrophysicists in CFB coaching circle.
 
I think its clear that we need to hire a coach that's a raging alcoholic (but in a fun way) if we ever want to MAKE MIAMI GREAT AGAIN!
 
Back
Top