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Adjustments to the 4-0-4 defense we're seeing?

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Why not open up the competition at guard and throw Campbell in the mix. When healthy, it appears we're set at tackle with Zion and Williams.
 
If anyone is interested in the implementation of this front, check the below link. Kirby and a staffer explain personnel changes and why they moved to this front. Covers the problems it’s giving a 10 personnel team and being able to stay in their 3 down stucture.

 
San Amaro Dr said:
If anyone is interested in the implementation of this front, check the below link. Kirby and a staffer explain personnel changes and why they moved to this front. Covers the problems it’s giving a 10 personnel team and being able to stay in their 3 down stucture.

Click to expand...

Funny how at the end they show slide that they wanted to study the top twelve 2018 third down defenses and Miami was number one..
 
Coach Macho said:
Pitt LB coach told me they're a heavy Quarters team and that's it's basically Cover-0 the way they play it. (although this was 2 years ago)

The deep-outs by the slot WR's will be there if we want it.
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Coach do you like palms coverage? And if so why/why not
 
CanesAreAble said:
Clemson is now the 4th team in a row to run the 4i tite defensive alignment against us in order to take away IZ.

Somehow Manny keeps being surprised by this.

It's to the point now where we need to be expecting it.

I think we need to be more creative in getting runs to the perimeter. More OZ, more sweeps/tosses, using orbit motion beyond just a decoy, more misdirection. Anything to loosen up the LBs coming downhill with abandon.
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Remember when Notre Dame ran power pulls from the shotgun on us? They would run a sweep, then a counter. Then they would dive up the guy.

We had no answer, and I'm jealous of that scheme.
 
Cane passion said:
Coach do you like palms coverage? And if so why/why not
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Yeah, I run it behind the Tite Front.

Reasons I like it...

*It can be cover-2 or it can be cover-4. Just depends on the route distribution. Four verts turns it into Quarters (C4), but an out from #2 or a hitch from #1 will have it looking like Cover-2. It's reactionary and can look different to the offense from play to play.

*It puts my Nickel/Sam inside of the slot receiver and allows him to help in the run game or take away the RPO slant. I like it versus teams that run Inside Zone/RPO.

*Easier to get a double-team/bracket on the outside WR. If the slot runs any in-breaking route then the Safety robs the outside WR. This leads to a bracket from the Safety and CB.

Reasons I don't like it...(and I prefer Cover-3 Match instead)

*If you're not running a Tite Front with Palms, IZ/RPO offenses can pick on your hook/curl defender because he's often in a run/pass conflict.

*You can't have defenders close to BOTH slot WR's unless you vacate the box. The weak ILB and Nickel have to "apex" (play between) the Offensive Tackle and the slot WR. So if the ball is in the middle of the field you have to bump the LB and Nickel out depending on spacing of the #2 WR. This leaves a light box.

*That apex player is supposed to help on run but ALSO tackle bubble screens. He usually has to check for run first, and that split second can give a good slot WR room on a bubble. If he doesn't check for run first, and just runs straight to the bubble, then he's completely vacating the box.

*Palms leaves your Safeties one-on-one with much faster slot WR's on a lot of occasions. I don't like slot receivers running full speed at my safeties and having a 4-way go. (post, dig, deep-out or post corner) Once that slot WR goes vertical the safety has him man-to-man. I don't like my safeties covering small shifty guys one-on-one. If they get beat it's a big play. Now, me personally I try to protect that Safety by having the Nickel carry the slot if he goes vertical. (Miami does this with their Striker)

And finally...

*Palms requires more teaching and more reps. It's very reactionary. Your CB and Safeties are both reading the slot WR's and have to make split decisions. A wrong decision can lead to a huge play. We've had it happen a couple times during off-season practices, which is why I'm shying away from Palms. I feel like if you want to run Palms you have to coach/rep the **** out of it.

With that said, I still run it a handful of times, on certain situations. But generally I feel more comfortable living in Cover-3-Match. I would rather shut down everything between the hashes and force you to take your shots one-on-one on the outside than for you to get your slot receivers one-on-one with my Safeties in the middle of the field. Deep and outside is the lowest percentage throw on the field and out there I have the sideline for help. Cover 3-Match also takes away bubble throws and short hitches, so you won't get nickel-and-dimed all the way down the field. I hate dying a slow death.
 
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Coach Macho said:
Yeah, I run it behind the Tite Front.

Reasons I like it...

*It can be cover-2 or it can be cover-4. Just depends on the route distribution. Four verts turns it into Quarters (C4), but an out from #2 or a hitch from #1 will have it looking like Cover-2. It's reactionary and can look different to the offense from play to play.

*It puts my Nickel/Sam inside of the slot receiver and allows him to help in the run game or take away the RPO slant. I like it versus teams that run Inside Zone/RPO.

*Easier to get a double-team/bracket on the outside WR. If the slot runs any in-breaking route then the Safety robs the outside WR. This leads to a bracket from the Safety and CB.

Reasons I don't like it...(and I prefer Cover-3 Match instead)

*If you're not running a Tite Front with Palms, IZ/RPO offenses can pick on your hook/curl defender because he's often in a run/pass conflict.

*You can't have defenders close to BOTH slot WR's unless you vacate the box. The weak ILB and Nickel have to "apex" (play between) the Offensive Tackle and the slot WR. So if the ball is in the middle of the field you have to bump the LB and Nickel out depending on spacing of the #2 WR. This leaves a light box.

*That apex player is supposed to help on run but ALSO tackle bubble screens. He usually has to check for run first, and that split second can give a good slot WR room on a bubble. If he doesn't check for run first, and just runs straight to the bubble, then he's completely vacating the box.

*Palms leaves your Safeties one-on-one with much faster slot WR's on a lot of occasions. I don't like slot receivers running full speed at my safeties and having a 4-way go. (post, dig, deep-out or post corner) Once that slot WR goes vertical the safety has him man-to-man. I don't like my safeties covering small shifty guys one-on-one. If they get beat it's a big play. Now, me personally I try to protect that Safety by having the Nickel carry the slot if he goes vertical. (Miami does this with their Striker)

And finally...

*Palms requires more teaching and more reps. It's very reactionary. Your CB and Safeties are both reading the slot WR's and have to make split decisions. A wrong decision can lead to a huge play. We've had it happen a couple times during off-season practices, which is why I'm shying away from Palms. I feel like if you want to run Palms you have to coach/rep the **** out of it.

With that said, I still run it a handful of times, on certain situations. But generally I feel more comfortable living in Cover-3-Match. I would rather shut down everything between the hashes and force you to take your shots one-on-one on the outside than for you to get your slot receivers one-on-one with my Safeties in the middle of the field. Deep and outside is the lowest percentage throw on the field and out there I have the sideline for help. Cover 3-Match also takes away bubble throws and short hitches, so you won't get nickel-and-dimed all the way down the field. I hate dying a slow death.
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good stuff and you touched on a lot of the pros and cons of palms coverage. Stunting linemen upfront can help the inside backers off set the RPO by taking away the run threat and leaving the backers in less of a conflict. I give my guys a rule on palms coverage and tell them anything after 7 yards you got him man to man. I love the possibilities of getting two over one against the long ball. I like to stem my corner and safeties away from the strong side ( which is side with the striker in the 4-2-5) to deter the quick game because your some what vulnerable to that side but like you said you have to rep the **** out of it. I love it for teams that run a lot of bubble routes. Kids have difficulty verse switch routes which is something you have to rep a lot as well. A buddy of mines likes 3 match but I never got into it. I will check it out.
 
Cane passion said:
good stuff and you touched on a lot of the pros and cons of palms coverage. Stunting linemen upfront can help the inside backers off set the RPO by taking away the run threat and leaving the backers in less of a conflict. I give my guys a rule on palms coverage and tell them anything after 7 yards you got him man to man. I love the possibilities of getting two over one against the long ball. I like to stem my corner and safeties away from the strong side ( which is side with the striker in the 4-2-5) to deter the quick game because your some what vulnerable to that side but like you said you have to rep the **** out of it. I love it for teams that run a lot of bubble routes. Kids have difficulty verse switch routes which is something you have to rep a lot as well. A buddy of mines likes 3 match but I never got into it. I will check it out.
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I love it (Palms) it just scares me at times, particularly with my current personnel. One of my Safeties is green/young and the other one is wayyyy too undisciplined to trust reading 2-to-1.

Now with Cover-3-Match...(or "Rip/Liz Match" as Saban calls it)... one of my Safeties is down in the box and the other one is roaming the middle 3rd of the field. And since the flat defenders are carrying the slots vertical, he's got help underneath. He doesn't have to make any split decision "2-to-1" type reads, he can essentially weave in the middle of the field with his eyes looking at the slot WR's. (or as we say "the triangle") Not much thinking involved there. The CB's also don't have much thinking. They have the outside WR's man-to-man unless they go shallow.

The only players in this coverage that have to think are the flat defenders. They have to take #2 vertical☝🏻 or out👉🏻. That's easy.

It's basically a combination of Cover-1 and Cover-3.
 
Coach Macho said:
I love it (Palms) it just scares me at times, particularly with my current personnel. One of my Safeties is green/young and the other one is wayyyy too undisciplined to trust reading 2-to-1.

Now with Cover-3-Match...(or "Rip/Liz Match" as Saban calls it)... one of my Safeties is down in the box and the other one is roaming the middle 3rd of the field. And since the flat defenders are carrying the slots vertical, he's got help underneath. He doesn't have to make any split decision "2-to-1" type reads, he can essentially weave in the middle of the field with his eyes looking at the slot WR's. (or as we say "the triangle") Not much thinking involved there. The CB's also don't have much thinking. They have the outside WR's man-to-man unless they go shallow.

The only players in this coverage that have to think are the flat defenders. They have to take #2 vertical☝🏻 or out👉🏻. That's easy.

It's basically a combination of Cover-1 and Cover-3.
Click to expand...
Palms puts an incredible amount of pressure on Safeties in multiple aspects, too. Aside from quick processing, you’re asking Safeties to be excellent at angles, filling and cleaning up. The coverage is many times a thankless job for a Safety. Cover 3 Match (and other variations) can be a lot more ‘fun’ to play Safety in.
 
I like it. Saban has a video about this it was pretty long and he’s not an engaging speaker at least to me. He clearly knows what he’s talking about just hard to listen to him speak for a long time.
 
LuCane said:
Palms puts an incredible amount of pressure on Safeties in multiple aspects, too. Aside from quick processing, you’re asking Safeties to be excellent at angles, filling and cleaning up. The coverage is many times a thankless job for a Safety. Cover 3 Match (and other variations) can be a lot more ‘fun’ to play Safety in.
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I understand why you say that. Your safeties gotta be able to cover like corners because slot receivers see the ball a ton versus spread. Another reason why I like palms which I forgot to mention is the ability to play uptempo teams based on a split field formation concept. You literally can always play some kind of variation of palms to Any formation the safety and corner gets to their side with out stressing about your kids not getting a defensive call. Often times in big games it can be tough to get your defensive call in but if You Can get your kids to understand the potential of what they can see from your opponent based on 1 or 2 or 3 receiver sets to your side of the field.
 
LuCane said:
Palms puts an incredible amount of pressure on Safeties in multiple aspects, too. Aside from quick processing, you’re asking Safeties to be excellent at angles, filling and cleaning up. The coverage is many times a thankless job for a Safety. Cover 3 Match (and other variations) can be a lot more ‘fun’ to play Safety in.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

My Safeties love when the call puts them up high in the middle third...where they can basically just attack the football.

And because we're a 3-4 team and Cover-3 is symmetrical, I can blitz either one of my Safeties and drop the Rush OLB to flats instead and still be in Cover-3.
So our Safeties definitely love it cause they get to blitz, play low, play high, etc.

I'm pretty sure this is what Seattle Seahawks lived in during their "Temple Of Boom" days. I think the Minnesota Vikings dabbled in it for a while too, with Harrison Smith coming down in the box.
 
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CanesAreAble said:
Clemson is now the 4th team in a row to run the 4i tite defensive alignment against us in order to take away IZ.

Somehow Manny keeps being surprised by this.

It's to the point now where we need to be expecting it.

I think we need to be more creative in getting runs to the perimeter. More OZ, more sweeps/tosses, using orbit motion beyond just a decoy, more misdirection. Anything to loosen up the LBs coming downhill with abandon.
Click to expand...
This is what the bye weeks are for..........come up with answers, and yes utilize what you enumerated.......creativity...........hope Lashlee is listening and implementing
 
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