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ACC Refs

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Pic from bryces instagram
 
ristwasdown said:
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I mean you can clearly see this shouldn't have been a holding call. HOWEVER you can clearly see FROM THIS VIEW which is the one the ref throws the flag from, why it absolutely looks like a hold. The LT has his left hand firmly gripped on Wilson and swipes down with his right hand and that causes Wilson to fall as he has a long arm engaged and leaning heavily forward. Its honestly excellent by the LT. BUT that doesn't mean it doesn't look exactly like a hold and pull down. Which is the problem with that technique when you employ it WHILE ENGAGED. Just is what it is. If you swipe the hands before you have engaged and have a grip on the defender and they fall you wont get called for a hold. But doing it while engaged, it gets called wrong all the time tbh.
@gogeta4
 
Calinative said:
I mean you can clearly see this shouldn't have been a holding call. HOWEVER you can clearly see FROM THIS VIEW which is the one the ref throws the flag from, why it absolutely looks like a hold. The LT has his left hand firmly gripped on Wilson and swipes down with his right hand and that causes Wilson to fall as he has a long arm engaged and leaning heavily forward. Its honestly excellent by the LT. BUT that doesn't mean it doesn't look exactly like a hold and pull down. Which is the problem with that technique when you employ it WHILE ENGAGED. Just is what it is. If you swipe the hands before you have engaged and have a grip on the defender and they fall you wont get called for a hold. But doing it while engaged, it gets called wrong all the time tbh.
@gogeta4
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77 grabs him “outside the frame” and holds him immediately. Right hand on the OUTSIDE of Wilson’s left shoulder pad. Uses that leverage to then rip him down. Legitimately textbook holding.
 
Calinative said:
I mean you can clearly see this shouldn't have been a holding call. HOWEVER you can clearly see FROM THIS VIEW which is the one the ref throws the flag from, why it absolutely looks like a hold. The LT has his left hand firmly gripped on Wilson and swipes down with his right hand and that causes Wilson to fall as he has a long arm engaged and leaning heavily forward. Its honestly excellent by the LT. BUT that doesn't mean it doesn't look exactly like a hold and pull down. Which is the problem with that technique when you employ it WHILE ENGAGED. Just is what it is. If you swipe the hands before you have engaged and have a grip on the defender and they fall you wont get called for a hold. But doing it while engaged, it gets called wrong all the time tbh.
@gogeta4
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Pulling him down by his pads is holding.
 
DubCaliCane said:
77 grabs him “outside the frame” and holds him immediately. Right hand on the OUTSIDE of Wilson’s left shoulder pad. Uses that leverage to then rip him down. Legitimately textbook holding.
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No he doesn't, his right arm clearly swipes down on Wilsons arm and causes him to fall. Idk if yall are blind or what
 
JD08 said:
Pulling him down by his pads is holding.
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Yes.... If that's what happened which it isn't lol.
Look idgaf cause it helped us and they had been holding prior plays with no calls, and this is type of thing that results in false holding calls more often, but his right arm clearly swipes down on Wilsons long arm and causes him to fall. Not a full on two hand pull...
 
LuCane said:
I’m genuinely curious why you think that wasn’t holding.
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Did you watch the video? Look at the LTs right hand/arm. The Lt is engaged with his left hand on Wilson and Wilson is engaged with just his left arm on the LT. The LT visibily takes his right hand OFF Wilson and then swipes down on Wilsons Left hand he was engaging with. Wilson immediately proceds to fall down because he was leveraged so much. At no point does it look like the LT is PULLING DOWN with his Left hand/arm causing Wilson to fall. Wilson even falls angled towards the direction of his left arm/LTs right where the swipe down happens....

HOWEVER becuase of where the Ref is located and the fact LT had his left hand engaged it LOOKS in real time like a hold and pull down.
 
Calinative said:
Did you watch the video? Look at the LTs right hand/arm. The Lt is engaged with his left hand on Wilson and Wilson is engaged with just his left arm on the LT. The LT visibily takes his right hand OFF Wilson and then swipes down on Wilsons Left hand he was engaging with. Wilson immediately proceds to fall down because he was leveraged so much. At no point does it look like the LT is PULLING DOWN with his Left hand/arm causing Wilson to fall. Wilson even falls angled towards the direction of his left arm/LTs right where the swipe down happens....

HOWEVER becuase of where the Ref is located and the fact LT had his left hand engaged it LOOKS in real time like a hold and pull down.
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I did. I’ve watched like three angles. Think it has a totally fair argument for holding. Think it has an argument for not holding. In that case, it’s not some absurd call. It’s a call. It’s a call that happened far away from the outcome of the play before the outcome was known. So I don’t get why this is some ‘gift.’ Wilson’s shoulder pad is lifted above his ear hole. That’s not some insignificant little image, either. At all.

There is a badly missed hold on that same series when Daniel’s breaks the pocket and throws it away. So, then what?
 
Calinative said:
No he doesn't, his right arm clearly swipes down on Wilsons arm and causes him to fall. Idk if yall are blind or what
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Completely incorrect. 77 gets help from 65 and swings his hand around to grab Wilson. Hand is CLEARLY outside Wilson’s shoulder pad lifting it up. This right here is textbook holding. You are not allowed to engage a defender outside the frame (chest plate + inside shoulder pads).

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LuCane said:
I did. I’ve watched like three angles. Think it has a totally fair argument for holding. Think it has an argument for not holding. In that case, it’s not some absurd call. It’s a call. It’s a call that happened far away from the outcome of the play before the outcome was known. So I don’t get why this is some ‘gift.’ Wilson’s shoulder pad is lifted above his ear hole. That’s not some insignificant little image, either. At all.

There is a badly missed hold on that same series when Daniel’s breaks the pocket and throws it away. So, then what?
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That actually proves it wasn't holding lol. If his shoulder pad is lifted up to his ear hole as you say, but the swipe down that causes him to fall is with the right arm then that proves he wasn't being PULLED down with the engaged arm. Holding isn't holding just cause you're grabbing their jersey. You shouldn't be called for holding for holding them UP from falling to the ground lol

And I agree that it is what it is because those swipe downs are probably the type of holding call that refs make most that are most often incorrect towards the lineman. The Refs often think it's a pull down if even just a regular swipe. And I even said due to the angle of the ref and the fact the OT did it with the arm AWAY from the ref while the left arm was engaged, it's perfectly reasonable WHY it was called a hold.
 
Calinative said:
At no point does it look like the LT is PULLING DOWN with his Left hand/arm causing Wilson to fall
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I honestly don’t think the video is clear enough to make a call on this. I’ve watched it like 20 times now and it’s close as ****.

All I know is the national outrage as if it’s a completely ridiculous holding call is insane.
 
DubCaliCane said:
Completely incorrect. 77 gets help from 65 and swings his hand around to grab Wilson. Hand is CLEARLY outside Wilson’s shoulder pad lifting it up. This right here is textbook holding. You are not allowed to engage a defender outside the frame (chest plate + inside shoulder pads).

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That isn't why the holding was called dude. In fact that right hand literally gets disengaged and then does the swipe. It was 1000% called because of the swipe down and he ends up on his face. lmao. Ref thought he pulled down with both hands. Simple
 
Calinative said:
Yes.... If that's what happened which it isn't lol.
Look idgaf cause it helped us and they had been holding prior plays with no calls, and this is type of thing that results in false holding calls more often, but his right arm clearly swipes down on Wilsons long arm and causes him to fall. Not a full on two hand pull...
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What's the left hand doing?
 
TwentySix said:
I honestly don’t think the video is clear enough to make a call on this. I’ve watched it like 20 times now and it’s close as ****.

All I know is the national outrage as if it’s a completely ridiculous holding call is insane.
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Well I think it's not a holding, however like I said I fully understand WHY it was called. You gotta think live from the refs perspective. It looks like a pull down. With replay we clearly see though the LT disengages his right arm and swipes Wilsons engaged arm down and he proceeds to fall on his face because of it. So for that reason it shouldn't be. However that is done with LTs right hand and its away from the ref and while the LT has his left hand engaged.
 
JD08 said:
What's the left hand doing?
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Engaged. Doesn't mean he's pulling him down with it. In fact I clearly said it doesn't look like he is. The Right hand is doing all the work. I mean yall gotta be real here. Wilson has one arm on the OT and is angled. LT disengages the right hand and then swipes down on Wilsons arm. He immediately falls in that direction. Lets just think for a second here lol
 
Calinative said:
That actually proves it wasn't holding lol. If his shoulder pad is lifted up to his ear hole as you say, but the swipe down that causes him to fall is with the right arm then that proves he wasn't being PULLED down with the engaged arm. Holding isn't holding just cause you're grabbing their jersey. You shouldn't be called for holding for holding them UP from falling to the ground lol

And I agree that it is what it is because those swipe downs are probably the type of holding call that refs make most that are most often incorrect towards the lineman. The Refs often think it's a pull down if even just a regular swipe. And I even said due to the angle of the ref and the fact the OT did it with the arm AWAY from the ref while the left arm was engaged, it's perfectly reasonable WHY it was called a hold.
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My bro, you’re my guy, but I think you fail hard to understand here how proof works. Multiple things can happen at the same time. His shoulder pad is lifted all the way up while his jersey was grabbed outside the frame. There is no ‘proof’ or smoking gun like you think. It was a straight up judgment call and made on the spot - not after the outcome was known.
 
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