ACC Record Revenue Distribution

Fair enough, but your whole argument (points 1 and 3) rests on the assumption that Florida and Georgia (and possibly others) will block Miami's admittance to the SEC under any scenario. Why is that necessarily the case? What recent evidence do we have for that? Just because that was the rumor 10 years ago does not mean it holds today.

I think we're oversimplifying things if we say that.

You went in to the weeds and brought up SEC by-laws, so I'll go in to the weeds as well and mention that Florida and Georgia are both state schools, and so they are accountable to the state and they can be pressured by the legislature to do things they otherwise wouldn't. Even if Florida was a hard "no," (which I don't assume is true), all it would take is the right political pressure to flip them to a "yes."

That's why Baylor and Texas are attached at the hip, and neither can join a conference if the other doesn't come along. It's not because Texas wants that. It's because Baylor has friends in high places in the Texas state government, and so UT is basically forced to comply.

Not saying that would happen. Just saying it's more complicated than "Florida would never allow Miami to join the SEC"... there are plenty of moving parts and buttons that could be pushed if this was something Miami really wanted.

There is always horse trading that can happen. There are always backroom deals that can be made. Florida and Georgia might be obstacles, but I don't believe for a minute that those obstacles can't be overcome with some good old fashioned politics.

Either you are playing the Devil's advocate to trash UM for the unattainable as @OriginalCanesCanesCanes suggests, or you are far more optimistic than I am.
 
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This is an academic discussion anyway, Miami is not leaving the ACC.

If the goal is to get in the playoffs, and eventually win a national championship again, and I think that should be the goal - as well as winning consistently in the double digits every year - then we can do that right where we are.

Hasn’t stopped Clemson, has it? Or FSU from a few years past.
 
Fair enough, but it's safe to say they both bring up the bottom of the P5. Adding Miami would boost the Big 12s academics quite a bit. Vandy and UF do the heavy lifting for the SEC's academic rep. In that same vein, Miami would help the Big12 academically- and that could mean the Big12 commissioners would be pleased to have us, and wouldn't constantly be looking for ways to ***** Miami like Tobacco Road does.

Also the numbers in the US News and World Report article don't add up. If you add up all the rankings of the SEC schools and divide by the total # of schools, then you get an average overall rank of 108. I don't see how they came up with 89. If you do the same with the Big12, its 106. So the Big12 would have a higher overall average school ranking. And if they added Miami (ranked #53), it lowers it to 102.


The reality is that there is no way that the powers-that-be at UM would ever go from the top ranked academic conference to either the fourth or fifth ranked academic conference so any discussion of joining either the Big12 or SEC is just a fun barstool conversation, but there is no serious possibility of it ever happening.

One thing we can all agree on is that if FSU ever got its wish and joined the SEC, it would permanently send the conference academic ranking into the toilet.
I’m not advocating for UM to join either the SEC or the Big 12...as you note, the powers that be wouldn’t allow us to join either one, so it’s a moot point. But even as barstool convo, we seem a particularly bad fit for a poor academic conference filled with large Mid/southwestern state schools.

As a fan, I’d have zero interest in going to Lawrence or Manhattan or Stillwater or Waco or Lubbock or Ames every other year. I’m sure they’re OK college towns...well, except for Lubbock or Waco. But they hold zero interest outside of a game, and when I travel out of state for a game, I want something more. Which is why I’m cool with traveling to Atlanta or Pitt or Boston—or even Charlottesville or Blacksburg, both of which make for a good DC weekender.

Granted I’m biased because I live in Durham NC and go to every UM game in the Carolinas. But still, from an academic perspective, a school size and rural/urban perspective, and a regional perspective, the Big 12 holds zero interest.

ETA: also, just as much as we complain about the ACC kowtowing to the Carolina schools, we’d be faced with a conference in which nearly a third of the teams are located in TX and wield a good chunk of the power.
 
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ACC is a joke. Miami should join the SEC where the real money/competition are. I don't know why we hang around this basketball conference and waste our time playing Duke every year. It's bad for our brand, bad for recruiting, and it means we play a lot of boring games.
it wasn't even a good basketball league last year :
 
I don’t doubt that’s the story you heard...but come on, man. Does that pass the common sense test for you?

If they wanted Arkansas, why would they come to us first? Why not just go direct to Arkansas?

If they came to us first, it’s because they wanted Miami.

Again, not calling you a liar and I believe you’re repeating what you heard, but the more likely scenario is that the SEC invited us, Tad Foote ****ed it up, and he invented/spread that 48 hour bull**** story to make himself look better.

Tad Foote was a ******* moron, after all.


Give me a motherfvcking break. I didn't "read about it". I was at UM at the time. I have multiple friends in various roles who know the story and who have shared it with me.

Also, to correct the record, the SEC invited Arkansas BEFORE offering Miami or South Carolina. The school that the SEC approached AFTER F$U and Miami was South Carolina (also an Independent at the time), not Arkansas, but my point about Arkansas not having a time limitation on their invitation is still true and valid.

It has NOTHING to do with "if they [the SEC] wanted Arkansas/South Carolina over Miami", and you need to go back and figure out what was happening in the world at the time. Arkansas accepted the invitation to the SEC on August 1, 1990. South Carolina's BOT voted to accept an SEC invitation BEFORE the invitation was even extended, and South Carolina was invited on September 25, 1990. The SEC Presidents only voted to authorize expansion on May 31, 1990. That means that EVERYTHING happened for the first invitation in June and July. Two months. The second invitation took less than two months. That is a total process of less than four months.

Furthermore, in 1990, Miami was the DEFENDING national champion, and the winner of 3 of the last 7 national championships. F$U had just finished #2 in 1989, #3 in 1988, and #2 in 1987.

On the other hand, Arkansas had managed to win 10 games in 1989 (and the SWC) and 10 games in 1988 (losing to Miami). Arkansas also won 9 games in 1987 (getting ROASTED by Miami) and 9 games in 1986 and 10 games in 1985. So even with those good years, Arkansas had no national championships, 2 SWC trophies (1988 and 1989) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Clemson just managed to hire Ken Hatfield away from Arkansas (and Arkansas was terrible in 1990 under Jack Crowe). South Carolina finished unranked in 1989 and 1988 (losing to F$U in both years), though they won 8 games in 1987 (losing to Miami). IN 1986, South Carolina won 3 games and lost to BOTH Miami and F$U.

AND EVEN WITH ALL THAT, the top target for the SEC was...F$U. Yes, the SemenHoles were priority #1. So in those two months of SEC expansion, there were six schools that were targeted as potential expansion candidates, F$U, Miami, South Carolina, Arkansas, Texas, and Texas A&M.

In order of priority, the SEC wanted:

1. F$U (Independent, and 2nd best team over the preceding 5 years)
2. Texas (Southwest Conference)
3. Texas A&M (Southwest Conference)
4. Miami (Independent, and best team over the preceding 5 years)
5. Arkansas (Southwest Conference)
6. South Carolina (Independent)

The approach to F$U/South Carolina was to harm the ACC to the east, which was also contemplating expansion. The approach to Texas/Texas A&M/Arkansas was to harm the SWC to the west, which was not very stable, made up of 7 teams from Texas out of 8, and which had suffered a huge loss when SMU got the death penalty.

Texas/Texas A&M did not want to swap Texas-centric dominance for being one (or two) teams in the SEC. Furthermore, the UGa president had approached the Texas president IN SUMMER 1989 TO TELL TEXAS THAT THE SEC WANTED TEXAS TO JOIN. Also, the Pac 10 was talking to Texas in 1990 as well. Also, the Big 10 was starting to whisper to Texas. Also, Texas A&M tried to reach out to the SEC on its own, but AT THE TIME, the only way the situation would have worked P-ANALYTICALLY is if both Texas and Texas A&M both went to the SEC together, and because Texas was hemming and hawing, the SEC couldn't quite swing a double-offer. Effectively, the SEC eliminated both Texas and Texas A&M from the priority list, leaving F$U, Miami, Arkansas, and South Carolina. Because the SEC still wanted to damage the SWC, this allowed Arkansas to jump Miami into the Top 2 of SEC targets.

At the same time, the ACC was making a pitch to F$U, and F$U was feeling a bit sketchy about (a) being dominated (p-analytically) by the Gaytors and the rest of the SEC, and (b) having a much tougher strength of schedule in the SEC (when they couldn't even beat Miami).

SOOOOOO...the SEC decided on a double-damage move. First, they take Arkansas, and damage to the SWC in the west. Second, they take F$U or Miami, and damage the ACC's plans for expansion in the east. South Carolina was the "safety school".

And here's how it went down.

---The SEC informally/secretly invited both Arkansas and F$U in JULY OF 1990, contingent upon becoming a public invitation when/if each school agreed to accept the invitation. No "48-hour time limit".
---Arkansas accepted on August 1, 1990, since they felt that the SWC was going to fall apart.
---F$U hedged and decided to see if the ACC would invite them as well. F$U preferred the ACC over the SEC.
---On September 2, 1990 the ACC made a formal presentation to F$U, but not a formal invitation, as the ACC had not yet voted to invite F$U.
---On September 11, 1990 the SEC made its final formal presentation.
---On September 12, 1990 the ACC only gave 3 votes to invite F$U.
---On September 12, 1990 the SEC decided to save face and fvck over F$U, the SEC moved on to Miami, and the SEC voted NOT to invite F$U.
---On September 13, 1990 the ACC re-voted to extend and invitation to F$U, and F$U accepted the ACC invitation.
---On September 16, 1990 the SEC came to Miami with its "48-hours or else" invitation, since they were already humiliated by the F$U drama and South Carolina had already voted to accept the SEC offer, if it was ever offered.
---Because Miami was NOT informally/secretly invited in July of 1990, and because Miami was such a rapid replacement for F$U, the UM Board of Trustees never had the presentation and due diligence prepared to join the SEC. Of the major Independents, F$U had the most power, UM had to do the most due diligence (being a private school with no state resources), and South Carolina was the most desperate and worst football school of the bunch.
---Miami asked for more time to consider the SEC proposal.
---On September 20, 1990, the SEC made its formal presentation to South Carolina.
---On September 25, 1990, the SEC formally invited South Carolina, and South Carolina accepted.

So, to sum up:

1. Arkansas and F$U were invited first. Arkansas took a week to decide. F$U was given nearly 6 weeks to decide.
2. Miami was presented third, and was given 48 hours to decide.
3. South Carolina was presented fourth, and had nearly a week to decide.

Hmmmm...who was given the most insincere high-pressure pitch of those four?
 
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This is an academic discussion anyway, Miami is not leaving the ACC.

If the goal is to get in the playoffs, and eventually win a national championship again, and I think that should be the goal - as well as winning consistently in the double digits every year - then we can do that right where we are.

Hasn’t stopped Clemson, has it? Or FSU from a few years past.


Setting aside the academics (which I believe are surmountable), the other critical issue that WrongSaidFred ignores is the media rights issue.

To quote ESPN from 5 years ago:

"The ACC also extended its conference rights deal nine years through 2035-36. The conference's grant of rights makes it financially untenable for a school to leave, guaranteeing in the 20 years of the deal that a school's media rights, including revenue, for all home games would remain with the ACC regardless of the school's affiliation."

I mean, sure, if we wanted to GET ABSOLUTELY NO TV MONEY FOR FIFTEEEN YEARS, suuuuuure, we could join the Big 12 tomorrow.

I guess that's just a normal "no big deal" decision that a financial genius like WrongSaidFred would make.
 
Setting aside the academics (which I believe are surmountable), the other critical issue that WrongSaidFred ignores is the media rights issue.

To quote ESPN from 5 years ago:

"The ACC also extended its conference rights deal nine years through 2035-36. The conference's grant of rights makes it financially untenable for a school to leave, guaranteeing in the 20 years of the deal that a school's media rights, including revenue, for all home games would remain with the ACC regardless of the school's affiliation."

I mean, sure, if we wanted to GET ABSOLUTELY NO TV MONEY FOR FIFTEEEN YEARS, suuuuuure, we could join the Big 12 tomorrow.

I guess that's just a normal "no big deal" decision that a financial genius like WrongSaidFred would make.

I agree with everything you say. But when I said “academic” I meant it not in the literal sense, but in the sense that the discussion is theoretical and not practical or realistic, in other words, only useful for purposes of discussion of an imaginary proposition, not one that has has any chance of actually occurring.

There is literally zero chance we are going to the SEC in our lifetimes. Or at least in the next 20 years or so.
 
I agree with everything you say. But when I said “academic” I meant it not in the literal sense, but in the sense of the discussion is theoretical and not practical or realistic, in other words, only of theoretical interest, Since there is literally zero chance we are going to the SEC in our lifetimes. Or at least in the next 20 years.


Oh, sorry, my bad.

Also, here is a very good blow-by-blow article that details the timeline of the 1990 SEC expansion:

 
And here's an article on how the SWC and the Big 8 conference EVENTUALLY got together:

 
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Oh, sorry, my bad.

Also, here is a very good blow-by-blow article that details the timeline of the 1990 SEC expansion:


No need to apologize, it’s not a typical use of that word.

I’m not saying there is zero chance that at some point in the mid to distant future we might join the SEC, but it would take some type of cataclysmic change in the structure and revenue generation of these conferences for the SEC to even consider Miami. They are doing just fine without us.

Right now they don’t need us at all. I can’t think of a single upside that would make them reassess their membership with respect to us.

And as I mentioned previously, while their revenue and clout would be useful for us, we don’t need them either, if our goal is to be in the playoff hunt and have a shot at a national championship.

Both FSU and Clemson have proven in very recent history that championships can be won from the ACC.
 
No need to apologize, it’s not a typical use of that word.

I’m not saying there is zero chance that at some point in the mid to distant future we might join the SEC, but it would take some type of cataclysmic change in the structure and revenue generation of these conferences for the SEC to even consider Miami. They are doing just fine without us.

Right now they don’t need us at all. I can’t think of a single upside that would make them reassess their membership with respect to us.

And as I mentioned previously, while their revenue and clout would be useful for us, we don’t need them either, if our goal is to be in the playoff hunt and have a shot at a national championship.

Both FSU and Clemson have proven in very recent history that championships can be won from the ACC.


It's all good, I just had "academics" in my head from TimeBum's great post. I got lost for a second, that was my DJ Ivey post. I reacted too slowly...

Yeah, there's no (current) compelling reason for the SEC to take us. And the TV networks haven't made things easy, like when they paid the Big 12 the SAME MONEY even after the conference lost 2 teams. In a logical world, TV contracts (and thus your "value" to the conferences) would correspond to TV markets and ratings. When the Big 12 feels like they can bypass TWO Top 20 TV markets with schools that have MASSIVE enrollments (UCF and USF), you know that the dollars are screwed up. And we **** SURE know that having the "best football teams" does not guarantee Power Five membership either.

But we are too far down the rabbit-hole now. It is just too hard for Power 5 teams to jump conferences anymore. In a bizarre way, that has shifted (some) power to the UCFs and USFs and Cincys of the world (not to mention the 800 pound gorilla of Notre Dame). They are the only PRACTICAL poker chips that remain in-play.
 
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..... It is just too **** hard for Power 5 teams to jump conferences anymore...

This.

The barriers are significant. Most people don’t think through the fact that there are multiple contracts that have to be navigated, with multiple entities, to even attempt to make a move. And this is just one barrier among many.

Like I said before, the people that bring this up about “join the SEC” just do it as a way to shlt on Miami.
 
This.

The barriers are significant. Most people don’t think through the fact that there are multiple contracts that have to be navigated, with multiple entities, to even make a move.

Like I said before, the people that bring this up about “join the SEC” just do it as a way to shlt on Miami.


WrongSaidFred just LOVES to ****e on Miami and Miami fans. He's a Yale MBA who thinks his genius ideas are so much better than ours, regardless of practical considerations, logic, or precedent.

He just thinks we should LOBBY the various SEC Presidents, and that everything will work out in the end. Ri-goddamm-diculous...
 
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WrongSaidFred just LOVES to ****e on Miami and Miami fans. He's a Yale MBA who thinks his genius ideas are so much better than ours, regardless of practical considerations, logic, or precedent.

He just thinks we should LOBBY the various SEC Presidents, and that everything will work out in the end. Ri-goddamm-diculous...

“Yale MBA”
 
I still think Big 12 would be better. SEC recruiting grounds are already beyond saturated. We wouldn't get access to new markets and recruiting by joining the SEC. On the other hand, the Big 12 gets us a much larger presence in Texas. The Big 12 also allows schools to negotiate their own third tier market deals, which could open the door for the Canes to ink deals with Univision and other latin america tv channels, as well as online streaming. Whatever extra money the SEC might bring over the Big 12, the ability to make third tier rights deals can help close the gap significantly. We'd also have more visibility in Texas, which would be great for recruiting. I also think we'd have a better shot of upsetting Oklahoma every so often over our chances against Clemson.
agree. going to the sec would be a huge mistake. Big 12 makes most sense, the acc refs have never been fair to us. Playing Texas and oklahoma every year with keeping fsu as an out of conference game yearly would be amazing.
 
Sorry to hear that you have a fat slop wife.

And, no, we were not formally and unconditionally "invited" to join the SEC, and our admin did not "turn it down". Before the SEC offered Arkansas, they called Tad Foote and gave him some ridiculous 48-hour window, which they knew we could not do, since Tad did not have the unilateral power to join a conference. He had to set up a BOT meeting first, and the SEC did not bother to put together any sort of due diligence or a presentation that would allow our BOT to evaluate joining a conference.

When Miami could not possibly meet the "48 hour take-it-or-leave-it" proposition, the SEC went directly to Arkansas without any similar time limitations or demands.
Exactly this👆🏾!
 
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