A Trend That Must Stop

[Moonman]

Our defense hasn't been THE problem. But they're certainly far from a good product themselves. Just because they operated better as a unit then our offense (based off of last year), doesn't mean they're absolved from any criticism. It's possible to have our offense improve with hires like we've made, while also looking at the defense and ask how it can be better also.

Far from good?

Give me an example of your definition of good.

 

[bshaw28]

Its not the stats, it's the timing. You can be 99.9% on 4th down, but if the one you give up is the game winner...

Relly pointed out the dropoff. I speculate they were demoralized. We'll see.

The Offense has been demoralizing the Defense for our last 30 games now.

When you start games with 3,4,5 turnovers in the first half. Or if the Offense is constantly going 3 & Out. Or if the Offense is getting zero points off of the turnovers the defense forces....all that is demoralizing to any defense, no matter how good they are. Especially when it's happening over, and over, and over.

 

[MainLineCane]

LaTech gained close to 50% of their rushing yards on the final two drives of the game. Prior to those two drives our defense had stopped them on nine of ten drives. They gained 89 total yards on seven drives between their first scoring drive and those final two. Our defense was gassed and demoralized from watching our offense punt nine times and turn the ball over three times. As for the other 12 games, I don't have the time or energy right now to break them down but u can't just throw numbers out there without any context.

Our defense is not a problem.

You can ignore it if you wish

So you're saying they gained their rushing yards when they needed them the most to control the game and clock.....that is definitely NOT a good sign no matter what

That's the time when our opponent offense absolutely needs to be stopped....and our D didn't/couldn't do it

Passing situations ( when we can blitz) are NOT the only critical times an opponent's offense must be stopped

It's not like we didn't already know before this game and all season long that our offense was ineffective and not consistent...a good DC plans for this.

Without a doubt, having a better offense will reduce our D's chances of getting fatigued....having a good scoring offense lessens the pressure on the D....... but that will not eliminate the need to address the problem of having difficulty with stopping the rush at critical times.

 

[PittsburghCane]

This.

Our defense has not performed elite. But you'll find most elite defenses are coupled with a reliable offense.
One that either controls the clock or consistently scores in the top 40. The way your defense can attack is almost always tied to what your offense and special teams gives you.

If you are continuously behind the eight ball for field position or continually play tight games its next to impossible to consistently play your desired brand of defense. Miami wants to control the pocket and force tough decisions on the offense to get TFLs and turnovers.
However, this brand of defense looses its teeth when they have to protect a lead or protect a point differential.

One could say throw caution to the wind and continue pinning your ears back but if you cannot control the clock then you defense will get tired and lesser talents will get rotated in. This also opens you up to big plays rushing since a higher number of rushers equals less tacklers beyond the line of scrimmage.
Also if you are always behind or in tight games then your opposition will run more often to protect a lead.

Additionally when your offense can consistently give you a lead and keep it this will favor an attacking defense as you are given more cushion to be aggressive without concern of increasing point differential if losing.
If your offense is on point then the opposition will have to pass twice as much as throw which feeds an aggressive defense as they can basically expect the same conditions and attack on those grounds.

TD:LR Version - Bad offense, bad field position, and losing the TOP battle will always limit what a defense can do. 2016 was our best year defensively, and unsurprisingly had an efficient offense backing it up.

And before I am called a homer, lol, our defense currently is not elite nor would THIS version reach elite levels such as UGA, Iowa as examples of elite defense (throwing out P5 SOS) in spite of offensive play without better discipline and overall even play at three levels.

UGA and Iowa are the only p5 schools in the top 15 of Points allowed per Play that DO NOT sport a top 30 offense.

Auburn(18), Cal(20), Michigan(22), Miami(23), LA Tech(LA Tech), Pitt(25), Missouri(28), Az St(29) and Kentucky(30) are other p5 schools in the top 30 of Points allowed per play that do not feature a top 30 offense.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

The defense will be excellent when Miami is playing with a lead. Shouldn't have a problem this year against most teams on the schedule. I think the question is what happens when Miami plays a solid defense. I don't have confidence that the D will be able to win close games. Have to hope that the offense plays at another level and can't e kept off scoreboard. We have one of the best- if not THE best- RB and TE groups and top 6 QB. Big question marks at OL and WR. I think WRs will end up being a top 25 group. I'm not as down on the OL as some. Enos's offense accentuated their weaknesses, so I need to see how they do with an offense designed to get the ball out of the QBs hands quickly before judging the OLs potential.

 

[Rellyrell]

UNC - I see that as a clean game and wouldn't say that was the O or D's fault. Yes the 4th & 17 killed us, but so did our 2 missed FG's and not converting a 4th & 1 at the UNC 19 in the 2nd Half. If you want to put that on the D, I wouldn't argue.

VT - The offense had 5 turnovers in the 1st Half and you want to blame the Defense? C'mon....

And vs the 3 G5 teams the offense scored:

CMU - 17
FIU - 24 (3 pts until halfway thru the 4th Quarter)
La Tech - 0

We average 13.6 pts per game vs G5 teams, and scored a combined 17 pts in the 1st 3 quarters of those games - it's painfully obvious the Offense is overwhelmingly the problem.

I think most agree we're not an elite defense, so your point is made there. But I think you're underestimating how much the Offense is the problem compared to the Defense. Is the Offense 100% the problem? No. Is it 80-85% of the problem? Probably

I agree, but not once did I blame the def. I simply said things need to be cleaned up on their end as well. You can't keep missing tackles, allowing chunk plays up the gut, and have an inability to get off the field on 3rd downs. So all I'm saying is we need to stop putting 100% of the blame on the O. I agree w/ your assessment that it's a 80/20 split. However, since no changes were made on the defensive side of the ball, this is literally Manny's last bullet.

 

[Moonman]

You can ignore it if you wish

So you're saying they gained their rushing yards when they needed them the most to control the game and clock.....that is definitely NOT a good sign no matter what

That's the time when our opponent offense absolutely needs to be stopped....and our D didn't/couldn't do it

Passing situations ( when we can blitz) are NOT the only critical times an opponent's offense must be stopped

It's not like we didn't already know before this game and all season long that our offense was ineffective and not consistent...a good DC plans for this

We stopped them on nine of ten possessions prior to those final two drives. Our offense left our defense out to dry...while our defense gave us TWELVE opportunities to score prior to the final minute.

 

[Rellyrell]

Fellas, no cap, @Moonman @JD08 @Go Canes!! @bshaw28 this has been a very fruitful discussion where real insight has been given w/o the name calling.

This thread wasn't meant or aimed to bash the defense. Our defense has been light years better than our offense. 2016 was our best offensive year w/ Brad at the helm when Richt finally let Brad just sling the rock. The O has been stagnant since the VT game in 2017. I'm merely highlighting, whether it's fatigue or disinterest, things can be tightened up on the def as well. Since things have remained status quo, Manny is putting all chips to the middle of the table and placing full blame on the O for both the 2018 and 2019 seasons. That's fine....then that better means our def is going to be better on 3rd down conversions, missed tackles, and rushing yards allowed.

 

[MainLineCane]

We stopped them on nine of ten possessions prior to those final two drives. Our offense left our defense out to dry...while our defense gave us TWELVE opportunities to score prior to the final minute.

Without a doubt.....that's is a fact

BUT you cannot ignore the fact that our D couldn't stop them especially the rush ...when it was needed most....regardless of how many reasons ( on which we both agree occurred)

But like I said, we knew of our offensive problems all season.

Having a better offense, will not eliminate our need to be able to stop the rush game.....nor will ignoring it prevent our opponents from exploiting it.

 

[DTP]

Without a doubt.....that's is a fact

BUT you cannot ignore the fact that our D couldn't stop them especially the rush ...when it was needed most....regardless of how many reasons ( on which we both agree occurred)

But like I said, we knew of our offensive problems all season.

Having a better offense, does not eliminate our need to be able to stop the rush game.....nor will ignoring it prevent our opponents from exploiting it.

If the defense had given up the second touchdown, earlier in the game would that have made a difference? In a game where your team has zero points, every opponent possession is "when it was most needed". Also, do you think that maybe after being out on the field the ENTIRE game and shutting down LT's offense that finally, late in the fourth quarter they just ran out of gas? How many times can you ask your defense "just go out there and get us a stop" before they finally burn out?

 

[Moonman]

And before I am called a homer, lol, our defense currently is not elite nor would THIS version reach elite levels such as UGA, Iowa as examples of elite defense (throwing out P5 SOS) in spite of offensive play without better discipline and overall even play at three levels.

UGA and Iowa are the only p5 schools in the top 15 of Points allowed per Play that DO NOT sport a top 30 offense.

Auburn(18), Cal(20), Michigan(22), Miami(23), LA Tech(LA Tech), Pitt(25), Missouri(28), Az St(29) and Kentucky(30) are other p5 schools in the top 30 of Points allowed per play that do not feature a top 30 offense.

Your numbers are misleading for several reasons.

1. Georgia averaged 30.8 points per game.

2. Cal's defense was horrible (112th against the pass & 3.56 yds/att against the rush)...and they ranked above Miami in opponent points per play. That calls into question the relevance of the statistic.

3. Miami ranked 17th in opponent points per play, so by cutting your sample size off at 15 you're ignoring the fact that Miami was indeed in rare company...however relevant the stat is.

An easier way to look at it is like this.

Miami was one of three teams in the P5 to score less than 30 points per game and still rank in the top 25 in opponent points per play.

 

[BlastUla]

While the Defense could've made some plays/gotten some more stops - I feel like some context is needed on the contribution the offense made to losing these games,

Game 1 - Miami goes ahead 20-17. Miami gives up a 4 play 80 yard drive to UF and we lose 24-20.
UF drive before that TD - INT returned to UF 25. Miami misses 27 yd FG
UF drive after that TD - INT returned to UF 25 with 4 min to go. Miami goes on a 4 minute 10 play 2 yard drive. Game over.

Game 5 - Miami comes back to tie game 35-35 against VT. Miami gives up 5 play 63 yard drive to VT and we lose 42-35
Miami should've been up 36-35 but missed the XP
Miami still had 2 shots from the VT 10 yd line at the end of the game to tie it but threw 2 incomplete passes.
Miami had 5 turnovers on their first 6 possessions

Game 7 - Miami is up 21-14 against GT. Miami gives up 6 play 80 yard drive to tie the game. We lose in OT.
The score was 21-21 at halftime.
2 GT TD's were recovered fumble in the end zone and fake punt TD. Neither are on the D.
Miami gives up 0 pts in the 2nd half, but scores 0 pts and missed 25 & 27 yd FG attempts in the 4th that would've won the game

Game 11 - Miami gives up scoring drives to FIU where their starting position was their 20, 18, and 11 yard line.
Miami's first 7 possessions include 3 INT's, failed 4th & 1 at FIU 1, failed 4th & 1 at FIU 18
You can't put up only 3 pts on FIU thru 3 quarters

Game 13 - Miami gives up scoring drives to LA Tech of 13 plays, 91 yards (egregious), and 5 plays 56 yards (the back breaker)
In 13 possessions, the Miami offense never crosses the La Tech 30 yd line
Miami has 3 turnovers

So much suffering... Our offensive ineptitude is depressing.

 

[canesdogo]

UF doesn't like it when you call them that.

JD.....they are "THAT".

 

[DTP]

Long story short:

Defense is really good but can improve in certain areas.

Offense is garbage and needs to improve in every area.

If the defense stays at the same level and the offense improves, the team will be significantly better.

 

[a51]

Long story short:

Defense is really good but can improve in certain areas.

Offense is garbage and needs to improve in every area.

If the defense stays at the same level and the offense improves, the team will be significantly better.

This.

King's transfer should cause the offense to improve, regardless of how good the new offensive staff actually is.

Unfortunately, King will only be at Miami for one year.

 

[DTP]

This.

King's transfer should cause the offense to improve, regardless of how good the new offensive staff actually is.

Unfortunately, King will only be at Miami for one year.

I think in the big picture, the Lashlee hire is the best move this program has made in at least a decade. The King transfer just makes the transition easier. Lashlee's first year at SMU wasn't great working with the available quarterback talent (there was none) but bringing in Buchelle for the second season blew the roof off the offense. That's kind of how I see the situation at Miami. Had Lashlee been saddled with Martell or Perry, I believe there would have been improvement but nothing spectacular. With a real option at quarterback, I believe Miami has the legit opportunity to not only improve but to be drastically better.

 

[JD08]

I think in the big picture, the Lashlee hire is the best move this program has made in at least a decade. The King transfer just makes the transition easier. Lashlee's first year at SMU wasn't great working with the available quarterback talent (there was none) but bringing in Buchelle for the second season blew the roof off the offense. That's kind of how I see the situation at Miami. Had Lashlee been saddled with Martell or Perry, I believe there would have been improvement but nothing spectacular. With a real option at quarterback, I believe Miami has the legit opportunity to not only improve but to be drastically better.

The question is whether TVD is the guy King can hand the baton to.

 

[Rellyrell]

This.

King's transfer should cause the offense to improve, regardless of how good the new offensive staff actually is.

Unfortunately, King will only be at Miami for one year.

We gotta develop our own players, as well. We can't keep relying upon the transfer portal.

 

[AllAboutTheU13]

Long story short:

Defense is really good but can improve in certain areas.

Offense is garbage and needs to improve in every area.

If the defense stays at the same level and the offense improves, the team will be significantly better.

Another way to sum it up: if we had a top 50 offense

So full disclosure, I blame @D RevLee for the inspiration of this thread. It's nothing he personally did, but he did post clips of the Miami v. LA Tech game asking how Brooks looked taking over for Pinckney. In doing so, I noticed some on going in season trends: missed tackles, extended drives, no push from the interior, and getting pushed off the L.O.S. I didn't realize that LA Tech gashed us for 174 on the ground that game.

This game got me curious as to a Manny Diaz led defense since his tenure here. We've been gloating about the TFL's and our total defensive numbers, but you may be surprised at an alarming trend; a trend to which the defense should be held just as culpable as the offense.

While our pass rush gets home, our run defense has been less than stellar during Diaz's entire tenure. But it doesn't always start off that way; when we begin the season, we are tough against the run, but somewhere between games 3-5 the wheels come off and they stay off. This is why we're **** poor on 3rd and 4th down defense, and this is why the T.O.P is so lopsided.

Peep this:
2016:
We began the year giving up an avg. of 34 ypg after our first 2 games
The next 11 games, we gave up an avg. of 151 ypg

2017 (Our best season in the last 16 yrs):
We began the year giving up an avg. of 111.5 ypg after our first 2 games
The next 11 games, we gave up an avg. of 154.5 ypg

2018:
We began the year giving up an avg of 78 ypg after our first 4 games
The next 9 games, we gave up an avg. of 172 ypg

2019:
We began the year giving up an avg of 60 ypg after our first 4 games
The next 9 games, we gave up an avg. of 139 ypg.

This trend has to stop if we are going to make it to the next level. This shows our defense's inability to get off the field, further exasperating our issues. No changes were made on the defensive side of the ball, and personally, I felt it was a mistake. The offense had glaring issues b/c it was just bad in all phases, but the defense got a pass b/c of the **** stats like TFLs, sacks, and the turnover chain was talked about. But since reaching #2 back in 2017, we've now gone sub .500 as a ball club between the latter part of 2017 - 2020. That's not just on the O, that's a team effort.

National Ranks for 2019:

Pass offense (passer rating): 59th/130
Run offense (ypc): 103rd
Pass defense (opp passer rating): 29th
Run defense (opp ypc): 10th

Our run defense was one of the few areas where we excelled last year. Why would you single it out as the issue with our team? Even if you’re just looking at the defense - their clear issue was coverage break downs that gave up huge chunk plays last season. I really don’t get it.

 

[KingB02]

So full disclosure, I blame @D RevLee for the inspiration of this thread. It's nothing he personally did, but he did post clips of the Miami v. LA Tech game asking how Brooks looked taking over for Pinckney. In doing so, I noticed some on going in season trends: missed tackles, extended drives, no push from the interior, and getting pushed off the L.O.S. I didn't realize that LA Tech gashed us for 174 on the ground that game.

This game got me curious as to a Manny Diaz led defense since his tenure here. We've been gloating about the TFL's and our total defensive numbers, but you may be surprised at an alarming trend; a trend to which the defense should be held just as culpable as the offense.

While our pass rush gets home, our run defense has been less than stellar during Diaz's entire tenure. But it doesn't always start off that way; when we begin the season, we are tough against the run, but somewhere between games 3-5 the wheels come off and they stay off. This is why we're **** poor on 3rd and 4th down defense, and this is why the T.O.P is so lopsided.

Peep this:
2016:
We began the year giving up an avg. of 34 ypg after our first 2 games
The next 11 games, we gave up an avg. of 151 ypg

2017 (Our best season in the last 16 yrs):
We began the year giving up an avg. of 111.5 ypg after our first 2 games
The next 11 games, we gave up an avg. of 154.5 ypg

2018:
We began the year giving up an avg of 78 ypg after our first 4 games
The next 9 games, we gave up an avg. of 172 ypg

2019:
We began the year giving up an avg of 60 ypg after our first 4 games
The next 9 games, we gave up an avg. of 139 ypg.

This trend has to stop if we are going to make it to the next level. This shows our defense's inability to get off the field, further exasperating our issues. No changes were made on the defensive side of the ball, and personally, I felt it was a mistake. The offense had glaring issues b/c it was just bad in all phases, but the defense got a pass b/c of the **** stats like TFLs, sacks, and the turnover chain was talked about. But since reaching #2 back in 2017, we've now gone sub .500 as a ball club between the latter part of 2017 - 2020. That's not just on the O, that's a team effort.

While it does show the D cannot get off the field it does show that our offense is not helping the cause. The defense is starting out fresh and through the year they are playing more and more snaps because of the three and outs the offense is having. If you just come off the field and played special teams on punt return or even got a turnover and the offense calls 3 shi!ty plays then now you have to come out on punt coverage and run down and make a tackle then play defense and repeat this over and over all year it, it wears our defense down. Thats just one factor but IMO the most important one. Offense has to sustain some drives so the defenders can rest up.