A note about Miami three-stars

[The Franchise]

Has the star system gotten a little more accurate in regards to South Florida players the last few years with the proliferation of money being sunk into recruiting and people who basically see recruiting as its own sport? Most of the guys you mentioned got their star rating 6 or 7 years ago or longer.

Good question. I don't think so. Louisville and Marshall built their programs off those guys.

South Florida is producing more and more players every year. Now you see QBs, OL and TE going to the league. The gap between South Florida and the rest of the country is getting wider. The star rankings can't catch up because there are too many players.

This is where evaluation skills are absolutely mandatory at UM. We've missed on too many superstars that don't require evaluation like Cooper, Ridley, Callaway, Michel, Cook, Rudolph, Collins, etc.

But we've also missed on a lot of the guys you mentioned in your OP. It's bad enough when you're losing the super blue-chippers. It compounds your problems when you're signing the wrong 3 stars and mis-evaluating the 3 star guys like Freeman, Dumervil, Tre Mason and the other guys you mentioned, who blossom into monsters.

 

[Brooklyndee]

That's nonsense. He developed tons of under the radar tweeners. Especially on the d side

 

[Dwinstitles]

We know this but do we have the guy that will spot them......this is why i was with butch. Dont mean to keep bringing it up but this was bis specialty, hope mr is like that but history/resume says no.

 

[brock]

We know this but do we have the guy that will spot them......this is why i was with butch. Dont mean to keep bringing it up but this was bis specialty, hope mr is like that but history/resume says no.

How? Richt has put the second most talent into the league behind Miami since 2002 a total of 79 players. How is that not relevant?

 

[Dwinstitles]

We know this but do we have the guy that will spot them......this is why i was with butch. Dont mean to keep bringing it up but this was bis specialty, hope mr is like that but history/resume says no.

How? Richt has put the second most talent into the league behind Miami since 2002 a total of 79 players. How is that not relevant?

Didnt know that wow impressive.....my thing is we need those under the radar guys from sfla and we need to land them n find them like butch would do.

 

[brock]

We know this but do we have the guy that will spot them......this is why i was with butch. Dont mean to keep bringing it up but this was bis specialty, hope mr is like that but history/resume says no.

How? Richt has put the second most talent into the league behind Miami since 2002 a total of 79 players. How is that not relevant?

Didnt know that wow impressive.....my thing is we need those under the radar guys from sfla and we need to land them n find them like butch would do.

He's gotten some including, I know for sure geno Atkins and Mckenzie is arguable one of them considering I don't think any of the big 3 offered him

 

[CaneInTheBrain]

Its all about stars in this day and age of cfb how many miami 3* have won a cfb title in the last 15 years? ... Stars matter!! Bottom line

Exactly why you don't see FIU, FAU, USF, etc competing for championships

Those teams don't even win the MAC or Sun Belt or whatever

 

[CaneInTheBrain]

No disrespect, but I've heard you guys talk about "under the radar" Miami kids for years.

Knowles, Brady, Gray, Waters, D. Jackson, etc were all supposed to be underrated beasts according to some of yall - yet none of them have shown a **** thing.

Meanwhile, our best players have been 4/5 stars like Kaaya, Duke, Artie Burns, etc

If South Florida 3 stars were so great, FIU would win the Sun Belt just once. FAU would beat Memphis and be the most talented team in the AAC. Or USF.

Man....yall got a little homerism going, I'm just saying. South Florida is great for recruiting, but some of you blow it way out of proportion

 

[Comma7201]

The 3 star rating covers so many players, there's probably too many players that receive a 3 that should be a 2.

 

[User-4525]

No disrespect, but I've heard you guys talk about "under the radar" Miami kids for years.

Knowles, Brady, Gray, Waters, D. Jackson, etc were all supposed to be underrated beasts according to some of yall - yet none of them have shown a **** thing.

Meanwhile, our best players have been 4/5 stars like Kaaya, Duke, Artie Burns, etc

If South Florida 3 stars were so great, FIU would win the Sun Belt just once. FAU would beat Memphis and be the most talented team in the AAC. Or USF.

Man....yall got a little homerism going, I'm just saying. South Florida is great for recruiting, but some of you blow it way out of proportion

we've been hitting on the wrong 3*. Like I said in my earlier post, John Miller, traveon Henry, Fabian Moreau, steve ishamel, skai moore, rashad fenton, al harris jr., etc.

A good amount of our recent NFL players were 3*. Clive Walford, Phillip Dorsett, Allen Hurns and Jonathan Feliciano were all 3*. The bust rate for 3* will always be higher than the hit rate. However, soflo has a higher 3* success rate than everywhere else.

This is no way means I'm not saying 3* from soflo > 5* from New York

 

[CaneInTheBrain]

No disrespect, but I've heard you guys talk about "under the radar" Miami kids for years.

Knowles, Brady, Gray, Waters, D. Jackson, etc were all supposed to be underrated beasts according to some of yall - yet none of them have shown a **** thing.

Meanwhile, our best players have been 4/5 stars like Kaaya, Duke, Artie Burns, etc

If South Florida 3 stars were so great, FIU would win the Sun Belt just once. FAU would beat Memphis and be the most talented team in the AAC. Or USF.

Man....yall got a little homerism going, I'm just saying. South Florida is great for recruiting, but some of you blow it way out of proportion

we've been hitting on the wrong 3*. Like I said in my earlier post, John Miller, traveon Henry, Fabian Moreau, steve ishamel, skai moore, rashad fenton, al harris jr., etc. Furthermore, Clive Walford, Phillip Dorsett, Allen Hurns and Jonathan Feliciano were all 3*. The bust rate for 3* will always be higher than the hit rate. However, soflo has a higher 3* success rate than everywhere else.

This is no way means I'm not saying 3* from soflo > 5* from New York

The very fact that a kid is a 3 star means there is some disagreement among people evaluating as to how good that kid is.

If you're going to use roster spaces on 3 star players, and if you want those players to be better than the recruiting services think they are, you need to A.) coach the **** out of them and. B.) do a better job on your evaluations than the people doing the star rankings

Can we really evaluate better than average? Right now, UM doesn't have a large football ops department full of experts sitting around evaluating film. At least not that I'm aware of. We don't have a Butch Davis on staff.

We have message board here say...but what is that worth?

Right now, I'd be happier landing 4/5 star kids with tons of SEC offers.

 

[CaneInTheBrain]

The one area where it really pays Miami to evaluate and hit on 3 stars is in the trenches, where we don't have much 4/5 star local talent.

Miami has failed miserably in its DT/OL evaluations

 

[DMoney]

Meanwhile, our best players have been 4/5 stars like Kaaya, Duke, Artie Burns, etc

Denzel Perryman. Philip Dorsett. Allen Hurns. Clive Walford. Jon Feliciano. All South Florida three stars who are now playing on Sundays.

And I'm more concerned with the players we didn't get. Those are the guys embarrassing us in bowl games like Skai Moore and James Burgess. As for Gray, DJax and Knowles, let them develop. We knew they were raw going in.

The blueprint is simple:

1) Keep most of the superstars home. You will always lose some, but most of the Dalvin Cooks and Calvin Ridleys need to be here.

2) Fill your roster with South Florida players. That's the meat of your roster and your depth.

3) Only leave the state for first rounders. They won't all become first rounders, obviously, but you want to pursue guys with those kind of physical gifts. It's OK to go to New Jersey for David Njoku. It's not OK to go to New Jersey for Jamie Gordinier. If you want solid players, get them locally.

 

[User-4525]

I think everyone would rather have highly ranked players such as Rudolph, Kirkland, cook, etc. with a bunch of SEC offers. That is not what's being argued or stated. D$ post just shows how deep the south Florida talent pool is. Moreover, no one in the country recruits a class exclusively of 4 & 5 star kids. Even the highest ranked classes have at least 3-8 3* kids. You need to hit on your 3* kids as well.

You should never recruit nor offer a kid based on a star ranking. That's how Miami (early/mid 00s) and UF (end of Urban's era) were left with rosters devoid of talent. With richt coming in, our support staff is expected to expand. And I trust richt to evaluate and get the job done.

we haven't hit on our fair share of elite kids, but even with richt & a real staff we still will not land the kids who need no evaluations (Calvin Ridley, Rudolph, Duke Johnson, etc.). That is why it is paramount to recruit the correct lowly ranked 4* (the kids who have some good offers but a can't miss) and the mid to highly ranked 3*.


Good discussion btw.

 

[CaneTheGaytors]

We know this but do we have the guy that will spot them......this is why i was with butch. Dont mean to keep bringing it up but this was bis specialty, hope mr is like that but history/resume says no.

This is spot on. That was also why I wanted Butch also. Best eye for talent ever.

But of course the Butch haters will say he sucked, blah, blah, blah.

Time will tell if Richt can pull in the unheralded savages to be that Butch did.

 

[CaneInTheBrain]

Meanwhile, our best players have been 4/5 stars like Kaaya, Duke, Artie Burns, etc

Denzel Perryman. Philip Dorsett. Allen Hurns. Clive Walford. Jon Feliciano. All South Florida three stars who are now playing on Sundays.

And I'm more concerned with the players we didn't get. Those are the guys embarrassing us in bowl games like Skai Moore and James Burgess. As for Gray, DJax and Knowles, let them develop. We knew they were raw going in.

The blueprint is simple:

1) Keep most of the superstars home. You will always lose some, but most of the Dalvin Cooks and Calvin Ridleys need to be here.

2) Fill your roster with South Florida players. That's the meat of your roster and your depth.

3) Only leave the state for first rounders. They won't all become first rounders, obviously, but you want to pursue guys with those kind of physical gifts. It's OK to go to New Jersey for David Njoku. It's not OK to go to New Jersey for Jamie Gordinier. If you want solid players, get them locally.

OK but for every Allen Hurns, there's a dozen Langham's, D'Mauri Jones', Robert Lockley's, Jontavious Carter's, etc. So you're filling 6 roster spots to get one that ends up hitting.

The list goes on. Just looking at the 2012 class, the following were South Florida 3 stars: Jawand Blue, Darrell Langham, D'Mauri Jones, Robert Lockley, Jontavious Carter, Josh Witt, Gabriel Terry, Dwayne Hoilett, Herb Waters, Nate Dortch, Vernon Davis, Larry Hope, Gray Crow, Earl Moore, David Thompson, and Antonio Crawford.


So just filling your roster with South Florida players is not enough. You need to get the right ones... which means you need to either land more 4/5 star kids or you need to do a **** of a lot better job evaluating.

Personally, I don't care where a kid comes from if he can play.

 

[CaneInTheBrain]

I think everyone would rather have highly ranked players such as Rudolph, Kirkland, cook, etc. with a bunch of SEC offers. That is not what's being argued or stated. D$ post just shows how deep the south Florida talent pool is. Moreover, no one in the country recruits a class exclusively of 4 & 5 star kids. Even the highest ranked classes have at least 3-8 3* kids. You need to hit on your 3* kids as well.

You should never recruit nor offer a kid based on a star ranking. That's how Miami (early/mid 00s) and UF (end of Urban's era) were left with rosters devoid of talent. With richt coming in, our support staff is expected to expand. And I trust richt to evaluate and get the job done.

we haven't hit on our fair share of elite kids, but even with richt & a real staff we still will not land the kids who need no evaluations (Calvin Ridley, Rudolph, Duke Johnson, etc.). That is why it is paramount to recruit the correct lowly ranked 4* (the kids who have some good offers but a can't miss) and the mid to highly ranked 3*.


Good discussion btw.

Then if I were advising Mark Richt, I would tell him we need to get a lot better at evaluating 3 stars. Especially on the offensive and defensive lines, where you just don't have that many 4/5 star types in South Florida.

Since we have no need for a true OC, maybe he could consider filling that spot with a stud talent-evaluator.... go get someone from the NFL - the people who put together the draft boards for the NFL draft whose sole job is to evaluate talent coming in to the league. Offer that guy 500k and that's more than most scouts make in the NFL.

Also, he might do well to pay 10 or so South florida coaches to scout out all the local high schools and have them each put together a board of the top 15 players at each position in Miami/Dade/Palm Beaches.

I don't think the guys we have on staff right now have time to look at a full season's film and go to the games of 200+ kids while also trying to coach a team. They should put some of the local coaches on payroll and enlist their help here, IMO.

 

[CaneInTheBrain]

I mean, you think about how many D1 players there are every year in South Florida.... if you're really gonna do it right, you've gotta have a small army of talent scouts working for you to properly evaluate every kid's film and determine who should/shouldn't be offered.

That shouldn't be a part-time job for an already overworked coaching staff. The coaches need to focus on coaching, and zeroing in on a few top targets that the scouts you're paying have identified for you.

 

[DMoney]

So just filling your roster with South Florida players is not enough. You need to get the right ones... which means you need to either land more 4/5 star kids or you need to do a **** of a lot better job evaluating.

No argument there. Golden struggled with his South Florida evaluations. He targeted guys like Ryan Mayes, but had to get desperate to offer Sheldrick Redwine.

 

[nycane]

So just filling your roster with South Florida players is not enough. You need to get the right ones... which means you need to either land more 4/5 star kids or you need to do a **** of a lot better job evaluating.

No argument there. Golden struggled with his South Florida evaluations. He targeted guys like Ryan Mayes, but had to get desperate to offer Sheldrick Redwine.

part of the reason Redwine stock dropped was because paul williams openly talked bad about him. i was shocked he signed with us.