5 teams that could join the ACC if ND joins for FB

JgDaCane

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The White Out is a tradition at the Pennsylvania State University during select Nittany Lions home football games, where all spectators come dressed in white. It has been described as "the best atmosphere in college football."[1] It is also among the most expensive regular season games of college football, with ticket prices ranging upwards of $250. All White Out games are showcased with an advanced fireworks display lining the east and west (long ends) of Beaver Stadium. During these games, Zombie Nation's Kernkraft 400 replaces Fight On, State as the fight song after Penn State scores.

This is the environment Miami football was made for. Plus, **** the Independent Indiana Team.
I watched those losers get beat on a whiteout night & it was glorious watching those kid diddling supports go home w their tail between their legs.
 

NC_Canes_11

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I ain't mad at ya. I know there are redneck towns where college football is a big deal.

But WVU isn't much of a TV market, and they certainly don't produce W-L results that match recruiting at a #40 level (for the past 7 years).

I'm gonna say no, dawg, that's a no for me.
And those are absolutely fair points to make. I just don’t wanna see the ACC bring up a G5 school. I’m not a rah rah conference fan but I don’t enjoy the continuous ACC slander. It will get infinitely worse if that happens.
 

CaneinBroward

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They have good enough graduate programs like their dentistry school. I honestly don’t know why that would be a deciding factor anyway. I also don’t understand where the poor image comes from. I get WV has a strange reputation, but If you’ve ever been to Morgantown you know it’s a GREAT college town. Nothing in the ACC outside of Clemson comes close to the game day vibe and atmosphere in town. If you’re a fan of college football, Milan Puskar is a place you have to see a night game at.

I admit I’m a little biased bc I’ve been going up there since I was 8, but I’ve never had anyone I’ve taken up there not have a great time and come away with a new prospective on it.
Dentistry? Really? I thought it was a miracle to find 32 teeth in one row of WVU fans let alone in one mouth.
 

ddram10

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Is Memphis even a real school? Zero interest in a football nobody.
Is Memphis even a real school? Zero interest in a football nobody.
FB_IMG_1595897756549.jpg
 

SayWhat

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Temple blows away Cincinnati. Temple is in the #4 media market and #1 if you add NJ and NYC. 23.5 million people (Phila, NJ, and NYC) in a 1 hour driving radius. That's larger than all other potential schools combined.
Temple may be in that market, but they sure as heck don't draw in those viewers. In NYC alone, I would bet they aren't even top 100 with alumni living in the city.

Cincy reps their squad. Temple, not so much.

Media markets matter if they draw in viewers. Temple doesn't and Chaney is long gone.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable with you. I think you're a quality poster.
 

Midlo Cane Fan

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Temple may be in that market, but they sure as heck don't draw in those viewers. In NYC alone, I would bet they aren't even top 100 with alumni living in the city.

Cincy reps their squad. Temple, not so much.

Media markets matter if they draw in viewers. Temple doesn't and Chaney is long gone.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable with you. I think you're a quality poster.
Cincy's had 2 great years under Fickell, going 22-5.
 

SayWhat

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They have been and should be pushing for ND. Say what you want, they would be a financial boom. Long term though, it may diminish as part of their allure is traditional games all over the land which adds to their following.

Academically they're up there and would counterbalance whatever the other school is. What school that should be has a lot of answers.

I think what would tell the tale here so isn't media markets, but instead merchandise sales. That shows interest which translates to dollars.
 

puertorricane

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The bigger question is who gets ND, the coastal or atlantic.
It would make for unbalanced divisions talent wise.
 

Legendary1

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The bigger question is who gets ND, the coastal or atlantic.
It would make for unbalanced divisions talent wise.
I’m guessing Coastal gets ND and the Atlantic gets the other team. Unless they change the divisions up all together or go to 4 pod system.
 

TheOriginalCane

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And those are absolutely fair points to make. I just don’t wanna see the ACC bring up a G5 school. I’m not a rah rah conference fan but I don’t enjoy the continuous ACC slander. It will get infinitely worse if that happens.

I can certainly respect your thought process. I would just point out that UCF (probably the best of the American Conference teams from a football standpoint while they have been in the AAC) has finished in the Top 25 for 4 of the last 7 seasons (which includes their 0-12 season). I really don't think that you would have ACC slander if we took ND, and then UCF was the 16th team, and UCF was able to recruit better and become at least a mid-tier ACC school.

There simply aren't any top programs available, besides ND. People can hypothesize about P5 conference-jumping, but it's just not going to happen, the financial penalties are too great. Unless the Big 12 falls apart, which could happen.

Football-wise (over the past 7 years), UCF is a better take than WVU. Which is probably sad to admit, but true.

JoePa's dead. Ped State isn't coming.

WVU would love to come, but there's not enough money in the whole state of West Virginia to pay the exit penalty.

AAC is just "tallest midget", which I think is what UCF is.

BYU has issues (though it would make a nice story if they came with ND).

Service academies will never get the approval.
 

TheOriginalCane

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I’m guessing Coastal gets ND and the Atlantic gets the other team. Unless they change the divisions up all together or go to 4 pod system.

I think 4 pods would be interesting, to get better rotation of non-pod games, but I wonder what the Championship Game would be like.

Would be VERY interesting if the ACC had a Final Four. Groundbreaking. Bizarre and hard to manage, but intriguing and probably money-making.
 

The U Code

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I can certainly respect your thought process. I would just point out that UCF (probably the best of the American Conference teams from a football standpoint while they have been in the AAC) has finished in the Top 25 for 4 of the last 7 seasons (which includes their 0-12 season). I really don't think that you would have ACC slander if we took ND, and then UCF was the 16th team, and UCF was able to recruit better and become at least a mid-tier ACC school.

There simply aren't any top programs available, besides ND. People can hypothesize about P5 conference-jumping, but it's just not going to happen, the financial penalties are too great. Unless the Big 12 falls apart, which could happen.

Football-wise (over the past 7 years), UCF is a better take than WVU. Which is probably sad to admit, but true.

JoePa's dead. Ped State isn't coming.

WVU would love to come, but there's not enough money in the whole state of West Virginia to pay the exit penalty.

AAC is just "tallest midget", which I think is what UCF is.

BYU has issues (though it would make a nice story if they came with ND).

Service academies will never get the approval.
Dude what did West Virginia do to u? 😂😂😂 their football program is undoubtedly more valuable to a conference than anyone in a group of 5 conference, including UCF. West Virginia brings multiple things to the conference, natural rivalries with Pitt, VT, L-Ville (Rivalries are great for ticket sales and tv) and most importantly unlike the majority of the ACC they are a football school and they invest their money into the football program and their fans actually show up. I mean if we can justify having Wake Forest in this conference surely we can all agree that West Virginia is worthy of an invite if the big 12 ever falls apart. I know people are ocd and want an even amount of teams in conference but if we were to ever add Notre Dame we don’t have to have 16 teams, we can roll with 15 if there isn’t a school out there that actually brings value, there is no benefit to adding another Florida school.
 

TheOriginalCane

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Dude what did West Virginia do to u? 😂😂😂 their football program is undoubtedly more valuable to a conference than anyone in a group of 5 conference, including UCF. West Virginia brings multiple things to the conference, natural rivalries with Pitt, VT, L-Ville (Rivalries are great for ticket sales and tv) and most importantly unlike the majority of the ACC they are a football school and they invest their money into the football program and their fans actually show up. I mean if we can justify having Wake Forest in this conference surely we can all agree that West Virginia is worthy of an invite if the big 12 ever falls apart. I know people are ocd and want an even amount of teams in conference but if we were to ever add Notre Dame we don’t have to have 16 teams, we can roll with 15 if there isn’t a school out there that actually brings value, there is no benefit to adding another Florida school.

Look, once you take the WVU c0ck out of your mouth, try to have a rational conversation.

You are huffing and puffing about "natural rivalries" as if that would be soooo valuable. I just have to laugh at you. You are recommending taking a terrible TV market that has "natural rivalries" with three of the smaller TV markets in the ACC (Pittsburgh is the #24 TV market, but has significant overlap with the WVU market, since Pittsburgh is the closest large maket to Morgantown; Louisville is the #48 market; and Roanoke-Lynchburg is the #69 market).

The rest of your post is just a rambling mess. "Justify having Wake Forest". Wake is a charter member of the ACC, so good luck with that.

West Virginia is a dying football program in a dying state that adds nothing in the way of TV revenue or desirability, outside of "past history" and I do mean PAST.

Anyone with a brain realizes that Florida is the third-largest state and the fourth-fastest growing state. Football is king in Florida. UCF and USF are both enormous state schools in Top 20 TV markets with huge stadium capacity (USF plays in an NFL stadium and UCF will be expanding their on-campus stadium to 65,000). WVU (#74 media market, unless you try to count Pittsburgh) has an on-campus stadium of 60,000, Memphis (#51 media market) plays in a bowl-game-only stadium of 62,000 (similar to what UCF abandoned), and Cincinnati (#37 media market) plays in a 40,000 seat on-campus stadium.

The last 7 years, UCF has a 62-28 record, with 4 Top 25 finishes and 6 bowl games (including 2 Fiesta Bowls and a Peach Bowl).
The last 7 years, Memphis has a 60-32 record, with 3 Top 25 finishes and 6 bowl games (including 1 Cotton Bowl).
The last 7 years, Cincinnati has a 55-35 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 5 bowl games.
The last 7 years, WVU has a 49-39 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 5 bowl games.
The last 7 years, USF has a 46-41 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 4 bowl games.

I give you factual demographic data and football outcome data, which clearly shows that USF and UCF are the two best markets of these five schools, and that UCF is the best football team of these five schools and you have to hypothesize that WVU "did something to me"?

It's so obvious. WVU is the fourth best football team of those 5 schools with a Top 40 recruiting class every year. Any AAC school would easily out-recruit WVU if they were fortunate enough to be in the ACC rather than the AAC. And WVU is in a dying state.

But people want to yap about the good old days of 40 years ago.

The ACC will go for the money. Anyone who gets Team 16 status (assuming ND gets Team 15) will immediately be able to sell more tickets and spend more money and recruit on a higher level. Therefore, the real issue is which of those teams brings the most to the ACC.

Hint, it's not West Virginia.

As for Florida, Miami is incredibly popular in SoFla and has some appeal in Central Florida. F$U is incredibly popular in NoFla and has some appeal in Central Florida. UCF and/or USF allows you to nail down Central Florida for the ACC and start pushing out the Gaytor fanbase.
 

The U Code

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Look, once you take the WVU c0ck out of your mouth, try to have a rational conversation.

You are huffing and puffing about "natural rivalries" as if that would be soooo valuable. I just have to laugh at you. You are recommending taking a terrible TV market that has "natural rivalries" with three of the smaller TV markets in the ACC (Pittsburgh is the #24 TV market, but has significant overlap with the WVU market, since Pittsburgh is the closest large maket to Morgantown; Louisville is the #48 market; and Roanoke-Lynchburg is the #69 market).

The rest of your post is just a rambling mess. "Justify having Wake Forest". Wake is a charter member of the ACC, so good luck with that.

West Virginia is a dying football program in a dying state that adds nothing in the way of TV revenue or desirability, outside of "past history" and I do mean PAST.

Anyone with a brain realizes that Florida is the third-largest state and the fourth-fastest growing state. Football is king in Florida. UCF and USF are both enormous state schools in Top 20 TV markets with huge stadium capacity (USF plays in an NFL stadium and UCF will be expanding their on-campus stadium to 65,000). WVU (#74 media market, unless you try to count Pittsburgh) has an on-campus stadium of 60,000, Memphis (#51 media market) plays in a bowl-game-only stadium of 62,000 (similar to what UCF abandoned), and Cincinnati (#37 media market) plays in a 40,000 seat on-campus stadium.

The last 7 years, UCF has a 62-28 record, with 4 Top 25 finishes and 6 bowl games (including 2 Fiesta Bowls and a Peach Bowl).
The last 7 years, Memphis has a 60-32 record, with 3 Top 25 finishes and 6 bowl games (including 1 Cotton Bowl).
The last 7 years, Cincinnati has a 55-35 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 5 bowl games.
The last 7 years, WVU has a 49-39 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 5 bowl games.
The last 7 years, USF has a 46-41 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 4 bowl games.

I give you factual demographic data and football outcome data, which clearly shows that USF and UCF are the two best markets of these five schools, and that UCF is the best football team of these five schools and you have to hypothesize that WVU "did something to me"?

It's so obvious. WVU is the fourth best football team of those 5 schools with a Top 40 recruiting class every year. Any AAC school would easily out-recruit WVU if they were fortunate enough to be in the ACC rather than the AAC. And WVU is in a dying state.

But people want to yap about the good old days of 40 years ago.

The ACC will go for the money. Anyone who gets Team 16 status (assuming ND gets Team 15) will immediately be able to sell more tickets and spend more money and recruit on a higher level. Therefore, the real issue is which of those teams brings the most to the ACC.

Hint, it's not West Virginia.

As for Florida, Miami is incredibly popular in SoFla and has some appeal in Central Florida. F$U is incredibly popular in NoFla and has some appeal in Central Florida. UCF and/or USF allows you to nail down Central Florida for the ACC and start pushing out the Gaytor fanbase.
U communicate like a blue balled teenager 😂 I don’t give 2 blanks about West Virginia but realistically speaking their program is worth more than UCF’s and I just can’t understand how u don’t see that. U just compared West Virginia’s record to a bunch of g5 teams without taking into consideration that WVU’s record the past 7 years consisted of playing teams in the big 12, that is a big deal, they’re playing Oklahoma, Texas, TCU etc every single year. I get that you’re trying to make the point that (IF U) were in charge you’d go off potential and market size etc but history has shown us that’s not what these conferences focus on (hence the big 12 adding West Virginia rather than Houston, SMU, UCF, USF or the PAC 12 adding Utah rather than a school like UNLV. Prestige matters, brand matters and most importantly money matters, conferences want teams that invest in their athletic programs, go compare UCF/USF to West Virginia, I’ll wait. Before u blow your load again I’m simply telling u that these p5 conferences don’t look at expansion in the black and white way that you’re trying to push, u are the minority that thinks we should add the UCF’s of the world because football is not king in Florida from a fan perspective and it barely supports the teams we already have, go compare UF’s attendance/TV ratings to Tennessee or Nebraska etc. it’s not always about population but it is always about money.
 

Number1CanesFan

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Temple may be in that market, but they sure as heck don't draw in those viewers. In NYC alone, I would bet they aren't even top 100 with alumni living in the city.

Cincy reps their squad. Temple, not so much.

Media markets matter if they draw in viewers. Temple doesn't and Chaney is long gone.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable with you. I think you're a quality poster.
You have to look st who they're playing. If they are in the ACC, the games become more interesting.

Secondly, most games are shown regionally. So Temple would be in a lot of noon kickoff games shown in the northeast region. They would watch because people are goong to watch a local team whose not very good in the ACC versus watching a school like Kansas or a MAC school on a noon kickoff.

Thirdly, we see MAC and AAC schools all the time on Weds-Fri so for the same reasons. Would you watch FAU play GT on a Friday night or Tulane play Baylor. I'd assume you'd have more interest in the local team.

Fourthly, Philadelphia metro has 6 million people. There's going to be more viewers than Cincinnati no matter how bad Temple might be. Also, that doesn't even include South Jersey which is just over the Ben Franklin bridge.

Lastly, people are under rating Temple. They've had some good teams when they've had good coaches. If they were in the ACC, they'd have a better staff and the recruiting would be better. Recruits would have the attraction of playing in a P5 conference. Phili has a lot of really good football players. If Temple were in the ACC, I'd equate their situation similar to Georgia Tech. In a major city with a trmendous recruiting base, but 2nd fiddle to the other in state P5 school.

Although not attractive on the surface, I think Temple gives the conference the biggest bang of the potential schools not named Notre Dame.
 

TheOriginalCane

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U communicate like a blue balled teenager 😂 I don’t give 2 blanks about West Virginia but realistically speaking their program is worth more than UCF’s and I just can’t understand how u don’t see that. U just compared West Virginia’s record to a bunch of g5 teams without taking into consideration that WVU’s record the past 7 years consisted of playing teams in the big 12, that is a big deal, they’re playing Oklahoma, Texas, TCU etc every single year. I get that you’re trying to make the point that (IF U) were in charge you’d go off potential and market size etc but history has shown us that’s not what these conferences focus on (hence the big 12 adding West Virginia rather than Houston, SMU, UCF, USF or the PAC 12 adding Utah rather than a school like UNLV. Prestige matters, brand matters and most importantly money matters, conferences want teams that invest in their athletic programs, go compare UCF/USF to West Virginia, I’ll wait. Before u blow your load again I’m simply telling u that these p5 conferences don’t look at expansion in the black and white way that you’re trying to push, u are the minority that thinks we should add the UCF’s of the world because football is not king in Florida from a fan perspective and it barely supports the teams we already have, go compare UF’s attendance/TV ratings to Tennessee or Nebraska etc. it’s not always about population but it is always about money.

You're a dope and I'm done with you.

I provide demographics, I provide objective facts, and you yap about "realistically speaking their program is worth more than UCF's".

You're a fraud. No facts, no stats, just a bunch of generalities. You make b!tch-like excuses for WVU playing in the "oh-so-hard" Big 12, the conference that is so bad that they are usually left out of the Final Four (unless Oklahoma is decent).

Here, let me provide a re-rank, including those oh-so-difficult Big 12 schools you mentioned (but not Oklahoma, nobody disagrees on Oklahoma):

The last 7 years, UCF has a 62-28 record, with 4 Top 25 finishes and 6 bowl games (including 2 Fiesta Bowls and a Peach Bowl).
The last 7 years, Memphis has a 60-32 record, with 3 Top 25 finishes and 6 bowl games (including 1 Cotton Bowl).
The last 7 years, TCU has a 56-34 record, with 3 Top 10 finishes and 5 bowl games (including 1 Peach Bowl).
The last 7 years, Cincinnati has a 55-35 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 5 bowl games.
The last 7 years, WVU has a 49-39 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 5 bowl games.
The last 7 years, Texas has a 49-41 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 5 bowl games (including 1 Sugar Bowl).
The last 7 years, USF has a 46-41 record, with 2 Top 25 finishes and 4 bowl games.

You whine about how WVU has suuuuuch a tough schedule, and basically Texas is the SAME EXACT TEAM (and barely better than USF) for the past 7 years (while TCU isn't even as good as UCF or Memphis). Outside of Oklahoma, the Big 12 just isn't that good, and college football essentially agrees.

But as opposed to stats and demographics, you are just going to make up crap about "prestige" and "brand". Two things that WVU doesn't even have.

As for your childlike obsession with what colleges spend on athletics, anyone with a brain would realize that it also depends on REVENUE, of which nobody disputes that the Big 12 pays out more than the AAC does. But in an attempt to compare apples to apples...

2017-18 WVU expenditures - $92 million (on revenue of $102 million)
2017-18 UCF expenditures - $68 million (and they definitely didn't have revenue of $102 million)

If UCF was getting ACC money, UCF damn sure would "invest" more money.

But why speculate, let's look at what has actually happened. In 1986, WVU expanded the stadium to 63K. The last renovations in 2004 REDUCED the size of the stadium by 5% down to 60K. The basketball arena was built in 1970 and seats 14,000. WVU built an IPF in 1998.

UCF built a 45K stadium in 2007 and are due to expand capacity to 65K. The basketball arena was built in 2007 and holds 10,000. UCF built an IPF in 2005.

USF plays football in an NFL stadium and has discussed building a $200M on-campus football stadium, and they only have a lease with the Bucs stadium through 2023. The basketball arena was built in 1980 and holds 10,000. USF will soon build its IPF.

So the concept that WVU "invests in" sports soooo much more than Florida state schools is a joke.
 

NC_Canes_11

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I can certainly respect your thought process. I would just point out that UCF (probably the best of the American Conference teams from a football standpoint while they have been in the AAC) has finished in the Top 25 for 4 of the last 7 seasons (which includes their 0-12 season). I really don't think that you would have ACC slander if we took ND, and then UCF was the 16th team, and UCF was able to recruit better and become at least a mid-tier ACC school.

There simply aren't any top programs available, besides ND. People can hypothesize about P5 conference-jumping, but it's just not going to happen, the financial penalties are too great. Unless the Big 12 falls apart, which could happen.

Football-wise (over the past 7 years), UCF is a better take than WVU. Which is probably sad to admit, but true.

JoePa's dead. Ped State isn't coming.

WVU would love to come, but there's not enough money in the whole state of West Virginia to pay the exit penalty.

AAC is just "tallest midget", which I think is what UCF is.

BYU has issues (though it would make a nice story if they came with ND).

Service academies will never get the approval.
Id honestly leave it as is. Shouldn’t add anyone unless the Big 13 collapses or we go to some giant P5 pod system
 

SayWhat

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You have to look st who they're playing. If they are in the ACC, the games become more interesting.

Secondly, most games are shown regionally. So Temple would be in a lot of noon kickoff games shown in the northeast region. They would watch because people are goong to watch a local team whose not very good in the ACC versus watching a school like Kansas or a MAC school on a noon kickoff.

Thirdly, we see MAC and AAC schools all the time on Weds-Fri so for the same reasons. Would you watch FAU play GT on a Friday night or Tulane play Baylor. I'd assume you'd have more interest in the local team.

Fourthly, Philadelphia metro has 6 million people. There's going to be more viewers than Cincinnati no matter how bad Temple might be. Also, that doesn't even include South Jersey which is just over the Ben Franklin bridge.

Lastly, people are under rating Temple. They've had some good teams when they've had good coaches. If they were in the ACC, they'd have a better staff and the recruiting would be better. Recruits would have the attraction of playing in a P5 conference. Phili has a lot of really good football players. If Temple were in the ACC, I'd equate their situation similar to Georgia Tech. In a major city with a trmendous recruiting base, but 2nd fiddle to the other in state P5 school.

Although not attractive on the surface, I think Temple gives the conference the biggest bang of the potential schools not named Notre Dame.
The games would become a bit more interesting, but interest fades fast when you're a doormat. If they were Ballin, then maybe they could build their fan base.

I see what you're trying to say with your second point. My issue with Temple and that area is that they're far more into basketball (not so much Temple basketball anymore) than they are their football team. Philly is a pro-sports market or college graduates from all over. People aren't rocking Temple gear. Most couldn't give a crap about Temple. If anyone is tuning in, it's to watch their school on whatever channel.

Third, I would watch the more interesting match up, of those I would watch Baylor as they tend to be the more exciting team through the last decade by and large. I have no vested interest, GT bores the crap out of me. Most likely I watch none of the above, too much real life stuff to do and kids. I'm telling you people in that area aren't tuning into a lot of college football.

Fourth, no. Cincy has a good football following. Temple doesn't. You're talking market, doesn't matter for the reasons I said above. That's why Temple was left behind. A 6th largest market and they get skipped by everyone. There is a reason for it, it's no accident.

Temple was terrible the last time they were in a bigger conference. They only saw success when they dropped down and were in the upper echelon of the smaller conference.

This Temple crap needs to die. They were going to be forced out last time they were in a bigger conference. They have upgraded some things, but they would be the equivalent of a dollar store in the ACC. Granted Dollar stores are booming, but hopefully you get the point.
 
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