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2023 Vs 2017

JayCane20 said:
I think you'll be surprised based on some feedback on a few guys in that room..

But I will say.. I'm taking the 2023 WR room (outlook/expectation) over 2017 (in hindsight) 100% of the time. Richards was hurt all year and played 8 games. Maybe healthy in 3-4 of them. It was just true freshman Jeff Thomas and then Cager wasn't very good. I remember they had nobody stepping up and then Langham made those catches and ended up starting games because of it. Berrios was the GUY on that team in the WR room and it wasn't close.

I think X can give you exactly what Berrios gave us in 2017. A healthy Colbie Young is far beyond anything Langham and Cager were in 2017. Harrell (5th year) is the comp to true freshman JT and that one isn't very close. I'm taking Harrell's speed and experience all day. Lots of guys can be what AR was playing on his injured hamstring.. before the vertebrae issue. Lots of people forget how poor Dugan's WR room was operated..
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Naw bro.... Like I'm a fair person so I read everything you said and tried to see it your way but..

HĒLL NO!!!
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
Now compare Thomas with Harrell and Joseph. I'm willing to bet combined they will blow away his 2017 numbers. Maybe not yards per catch but receptions and touchdowns. Thomas had 17 catches and 2 touchdowns.
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I mean I would hope they do.
 
Page305 said:
Dawg..... I probably was the biggest fan of George in here during his recruitment.

And that boy is not even on the same planet as JT4. Not in HS or College. These ppl sick man lol
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Bro,

JT4 - 3 yrs : 83 rec 1316 yrds (15.9 ypc) 8 TDs [high of 563]

George - 2 yrs: 20 rec 313 yrs (15.7 ypc) 1 TD [high of 183]

And this man had the audacity to say these two r equal?? This is the bull chit I’m talking about on this board some times.
 
Rellyrell said:
Bro,

JT4 - 3 yrs : 83 rec 1316 yrds (15.9 ypc) 8 TDs [high of 563]

George - 2 yrs: 20 rec 313 yrs (15.7 ypc) 1 TD [high of 183]

And this man had the audacity to say these two r equal?? This is the bull chit I’m talking about on this board some times.
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Then he goes on to tell me it's more a Thomas/Harrell comparison. Ok well why didn't you say that from the start?

Dude is getting lit up on here and pulls that ****? Come on now.
 
StevoBevo said:
I knew I’d get flak for the WR comparison, as I stated 2017 had the better top 2 but 2023 is far more rounded. This season we have:

- Harrel
- Joseph
- Washington
- Smith
- George
- Young
- Restrepo

And Ladson/Redding as our 8/9th WRs.

Iv heard @Cribby @JayCane20 @DMoney all talk about how vastly improved our WRs will be in this system plus the infusion of talent we have brought in.

Against our hardest opponents Thomas went:

- 2 catches 22 yards @FSU
- 0 Catches 0 Yards Vs Vtech
- 2 Catches 24 Yards Vs ND

Thomas Blew up more the year after in his Sophmore season and I am willing to bet J. George can match 17 Catch for 340 in this system.

Restrepo has the tools to match berrios (he also wasn’t ultra productive the year before)

I’m confident that Harrel/Young impact the game similar to Richards and RayRay/Smith/Washington are more talented than any of the backups 2017 had.

It’s easy to go off our WR production from last year but If you add in the fact we

- now have a WR friendly offense
- added 5 WRs this year
- we have a real WR coach in K. Beard
- Natural Progression from Smith/George (which we’ve heard about multiple times)

It all adds up to this group at LEAST matching 2017
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Your counterpoint is valid. And in this setting maybe I’m not looking at it correctly because you’re trying to project the 2023 roster and I’ve just given up hope on expecting players to perform well when they haven’t proven they can. Berrios/Richards both were proven in 2017, so that’s why I take them.
 
Rellyrell said:
Bro,

JT4 - 3 yrs : 83 rec 1316 yrds (15.9 ypc) 8 TDs [high of 563]

George - 2 yrs: 20 rec 313 yrs (15.7 ypc) 1 TD [high of 183]

And this man had the audacity to say these two r equal?? This is the bull chit I’m talking about on this board some times.
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After seeing stats like this.... OP just gotta be a man and admit he didn't know what the **** he was doing comparing these boys. And if anyone agrees with him, please don't try to debate me about ANYTHING.
 
[]_[] swag said:
No one is saying 2017 is an impossible to reach standard. But we had 5 or 6 nfl skill players on that offense. I'm not sure we have any right now. None that are slated to get drafted in next year's draft at least.

If you want to speculate and say ray ray is going to be a first rounder in 3 years that's fine, but if we're comparing real results on a cfb field, these are mostly all guys who looked awful last year on our 5-7 squad.
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I'm not sure I see 5 or 6 NFL level skill position players on that offense even if you include Walton (5 games) and Richards (7 games).

It's a hard comparison because a vast majority of Miami's current skill talent isn't even draft eligible yet so I can't make an
apples to apples comparison until at least the end of the year in that regard.

I will predict that the 2023 Miami offense scores more points per game and averages more yards per game than the 2017 team did.
 
DTP said:
I'm not sure I see 5 or 6 NFL level skill position players on that offense even if you include Walton (5 games) and Richards (7 games).

It's a hard comparison because a vast majority of Miami's current skill talent isn't even draft eligible yet so I can't make an
apples to apples comparison until at least the end of the year in that regard.

I will predict that the 2023 Miami offense scores more points per game and averages more yards per game than the 2017 team did.
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Not theoretically NFL level, but players with actual NFL snaps. Dallas, homer, Walton, Herndon, Berrios, and even Cager are 6 names that have all played on Sundays. AR was easily nfl level as well.

These guys aren't all pros by any means, but they were high level college players to be able to get snaps on Sundays, and you can see the depth there. Last year one of our issues was zero depth at any of these positions.

2023 could theoretically be a more talented crop of players if the new guys are all studs and ray ray ends up in the nfl hall of fame, but from what we've seen of these guys that have actually played college snaps, I'm not sure any of them get drafted.
 
DTP said:
I think the 2023 team has much better offensive talent than the 2017 team did. 2017 got half a season of Ahmmon Richards and less than half a season of Mark Walton and those guys were probably the best offensive players on the team. Maybe you could make a case for Travis Homer over Walton but it's a toss up for me. The offensive line wasn't bad but it was nothing special. Statistically, they were a very average unit. Mostly because the quarterback play was not good. Malik Rosier was incredibly limited as a passer and any team that loaded up to stop the run and dared him to pass gave us fits. They scored 41 against Notre Dame while only gaining 374 yards. The Irish kept turning the ball over and refused to commit an extra man to the box so Miami just ran it at them over and over from short fields.

I know the 2017 team got everyone excited but they weren't specifically great at anything besides turning over opponents and pulling off miracle plays late in the fourth quarter of games they should have lost. All the offensive luck reverted to the mean in 2018 and they went 7-6.

It's obviously too early to compare the 2023 team to anyone since they haven't even played a game yet but the 2017 team isn't some impossible to reach standard.
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2017 doesn't happen if Walton doesn't get hurt. Homer came in and saved us in the FSU & GT games. And with DeeJay moving to RB - we ended up with 2 RB's that played at such a higher level than Walton ever did. That was a blessing in disguise. I don't think Parrish/Chaney are at a Homer/DeeJay level - so talent wise it's how you project the other RB's IMO.

WR's - I think we definitely don't have a Richards and might not have a Berrios level talent (for this year - long term I would bet we do).

QB & OL I'd give the advantage to 2023 by a good amount and that's probably more important.
 
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[]_[] swag said:
Not theoretically NFL level, but players with actual NFL snaps. Dallas, homer, Walton, Herndon, Berrios, and even Cager are 6 names that have all played on Sundays. AR was easily nfl level as well.
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I hear you but Walton missed most of the season. Dallas was the fourth leading rusher on the team and only had 41 total carries and Cager caught 16 passes. So yeah, those guy eventually proved draft-worthy but in 2017 they were mostly second and third team guys.

That's why I said it's an impossible comparison because who knows what players currently on the roster eventually become draft-worthy. It could end up being a lot more but since most of the two deep at the skill position spots are underclassmen, we won't know until they actually play some more. you can't look at a finished product and say it's way better than a product that's not even halfway finished.

Richards was by far the most talented skill guy on that team. I don't think we have a guy currently that can compare to him. Nobody else on that roster stands out to me as much more talented than his counterpart in 2023 though. Restrepo has caught the same number of passes through 3 years that Berrios did even though Berrios played a lot as a true freshman and Restrepo didn't.
 
schedule is tougher this year then 2017
ball bounced our way in 2017 ..Hope we get the lucky bounces this year.
Offense scheme and play calling sucked in 2017 and we also lost key players through the end of the season.. Walton, Donaldson, Richard, Hendon


the biggest advantage in 2017 was the D front SEVEN and them was what carried the team to close Ws.. the front 7 in 2023 is a big unknown and if they perform like 2017 we will be f..king.

WR 2017 > WR 2023 until they prove us wrong
 
Mklein13 said:
Then he goes on to tell me it's more a Thomas/Harrell comparison. Ok well why didn't you say that from the start?

Dude is getting lit up on here and pulls that ****? Come on now.
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The goal was to compare the starters. As of now it seems That Restrepo, Young and George are our Starting 3 off the bat.

That’s exactly why I compared Restrepo to Richards and Young to Berrios. Because that’s our 1/2 options first.

So it’s:

Richards Vs Restrepo (1 option)
Berrios Vs Young (2 option)
Thomas Vs George (3 option as of now)

Talent wise Thomas takes the cake but you can’t tell me George. However talent aside I expect the impact George will have this season should be match be very similar to the 17 Rec for 330 + 2 Tds that Thomas had in 2017.
 
Page305 said:
After seeing stats like this.... OP just gotta be a man and admit he didn't know what the **** he was doing comparing these boys. And if anyone agrees with him, please don't try to debate me about ANYTHING.
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Berrios only had something like 12 catches for 150 in 2016 before popping off in 2017 due to Progressing, being healthy and becoming a major target. But I expect everyone would pick Berrios over Restrepo because of his 2017 stats although we expect a very similar production from Restrepo this year.

Talent wise Thomas takes the cake with ease, when it comes to production however I expect George to benefit greatly from a: Change in scheme, upgrade at WR Coach, being healthy and another year of maturity.

It’s not out of the realm of possibility where George can have the same Jump from last year to this year as Berrios had from 2016 to 2017.

Fall camp is still early and the whole rotation hasn’t been solidified but with George as our #3 option I would expect a similar production that Thomas had in 2017. Which is why I put them as equal. (Talent wise Thomas takes it)
 
Jt4 puts up insane numbers in a lashlee system. Can’t even imagine.

And berrios was a good college receiver in a subpar system with a below average passer. The difference was he had awesome hands and good chemistry with Malik
 
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Jacolby george is equal to Jeff Thomas?! Wow. I know he didn’t live up to the massive expectations but the guy made plays in as bad of offenses as you will find in modern football.

If jacolby george gives us Jeff Thomas production this year we will have a great season offensively. I highly doubt that happens
 
StevoBevo said:
Berrios only had something like 12 catches for 150 in 2016 before popping off in 2017 due to Progressing, being healthy and becoming a major target. But I expect everyone would pick Berrios over Restrepo because of his 2017 stats although we expect a very similar production from Restrepo this year.

Talent wise Thomas takes the cake with ease, when it comes to production however I expect George to benefit greatly from a: Change in scheme, upgrade at WR Coach, being healthy and another year of maturity.

It’s not out of the realm of possibility where George can have the same Jump from last year to this year as Berrios had from 2016 to 2017.

Fall camp is still early and the whole rotation hasn’t been solidified but with George as our #3 option I would expect a similar production that Thomas had in 2017. Which is why I put them as equal. (Talent wise Thomas takes it)
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You have your expectations and I can only hope they come true! That's really all that's left for me to say lol
 
StevoBevo said:
With 2017 being the season we cracked 10 wins (should’ve been 11 if we didn’t cancel Arkt St due to the weather) I decided to compare our Roster/Support between the 2017 Team & the 2023 Team.

Now before y’all tear me to pieces for comparing our best team in the past 10 years to this one this is purely a way to see how we would stack up. And with the addition of: Guidry/Dawson as well as the 42 newcomers we have we may not be that far off…but let’s take a look.

2017 QB:
1. Malik Rosier

2023 QB:
1. TVD

Overview: Give me TVD/Dawson over Rosier/Richt. If we had TVD in 2017 we most likely make the playoffs (definitely wouldn’t have lost to Pitt) although Rosier has a much better running ability TVD beats him in the passing department by a mile.

2023 1
2017 0

2017 RBs:

1. Mark Walton
2. Travis Homer
3. DJ Dallas


2023 RBs:

1. Henry Parrish
2. Don Chaney
3. Ajay Allen
4. Mark Fletcher

Overview: Although I’m going to give this to the 2017 Trio I think 2023 will benefit greatly from having a large variety of Different styled backs. Parrish/Allen are more Receiving/In Space Backs, Chaney is a big play threat with Great size/speed, Fletcher is a pure Bruiser, in between the tackles, kinda of back. Although I think it’s closer then most would think give me 2017.

2023 1
2017 1

2017 TEs

1. Chris Herndon
2. Michael Irvin II


2023 TEs

1.Elijah Arroyo
2. Jaleel Skinner
3A. Cam McCormick
3B. Riley Williams

Overview: Although I love Herndon and he is IMO the most reliable out of every TE listed give me the 2023 Group. Unlike 2017 we have a lot more depth at TE and versatility: McCormick is an experienced Blocking TE, Arroyo will be excellent all round, Skinner will be a great Receiver Type TE as well as Williams.

2023 2
2017 1

2017 WRs Top 6

  1. Ahhmon Richards
  2. Braxton berrios
  3. Jeff Thomas
  4. Lawrence cager
  5. Darrel langham
  6. Mike Harley

2023 WRs Top 6
  1. Xavier Restrepo
  2. Colbie Young
  3. Jacolby George
  4. Tyler Harrel
  5. RayRay Joseph
  6. Breshard Smith

Overview: I view this as a Draw. If you go down the line:

Richards > Restrepo
Berrios > Young
Jeff Thomas = Jacolby George
Lawrence Cager < Tyler Harrel
Darrel Langham < RayRay Joseph
Mike Harley (Freshman Harley) < Breshard Smith

I definitely think 2023 has more Depth than 2017s group and will help keep guys fresher/spread the defense more but the Duo of Berrios/Richards surpasses any duo we have at WR. Give me a Tie.

2023 2:1
2017 1:1

2017 OL


LT: KC McDermott

LG: Trevor Darling

C: Tyler Gauthier

RG: Navaughn Donaldson

RT: Tyree St Louis
Next 2: Corey Gaynor, George Brown

2023 OL:

LT: Zion Nelson/Jalen Rivers

LG: Javion Cohen

C: Matt Lee

RG: Jalen Rivers/Anez Cooper

RT: Francis Maugoa
Next 2: Samson Okulona, Tommy Kinsler

Overview: Ranking Wise, measurement wise and depth wise give me 2023. Overall the top 5 for this years team surpasses 2017 without much Question. Especially at: LG, C & RT. I think this OL will end up being one of the best we’ve had in recent memory.

2023 3:1
2017 1:1

2017 DL

DE: Chad Thomas - Trent Harris

DT: Kendrick Norton - Pat Bethel

DT: RJ McIntosh

DE: joe Jackson - Demetrius Jackson

2023 DL:

DE: Aheem Messidor - Chantz Williams - Reuben Bain

DT: Leonard Taylor - JHH

DT: Branson Deen - J Litchenstein

DE: Nyjalik Kelly - Jahfari Harvey

Overview: as deep as our DEs will be this year depth/talent wise give me 2017 without much question. The biggest difference is DT. Although I’m excited about Taylor/Deen the Duo of Norton/McIntosh was top of the line. Not to mention Thomas/Jackson/Jackson/Harris off the edge. I think our DEs are strong this year and might possibly have more overall depth but that 2017 DL was almost as good as it gets.

2023 3:1
2017 2:1

2017 LBs

WLB: Zack McCloud

MLB: Shaq Quarterman

SLB: Michael Pinckney

Next 2: Bradley Jennings, Darrion Owens

2023 LBs

MLB: Fransisco Maugoa - KJ Cloyd/Corey Flagg

SLB: Wesley Bissainthe - Keontra Smith

Next 2: Chase Smith - Raul Aguirre/Malik Bryant

Overview: This Quite honestly is another tough one. I think 2023 will be better in terms of Speed/Athleticism/Depth but I think 2017s Trio had better instincts and were very consistent throughout. Our 2023 Group has a lot of potential but I find it hard to say I’d start any of them over McCloud, Quarterman & Pinckney

2023 3:1
2017 3:1

2017 DBs

CB: Dee Delaney - Trajan Bandy

S: Jaquan Johnson - Robert Knowles

S: Sheldrick Redwine - Amari Carter

CB: Michael Jackson - Malek Young

2023 DBs

CB: Davonte Brown - Damari Brown

Nickle: Ja’Dais Richards - Tecory Couch

S: James Williams - Jaden Harris

S: Kamren Kinchens - Brian Balom

CB: Daryl Porter - Robert Stafford

Overview: Another Tough one…Both groups are very strong. In my opinion

Davonte Brown > Dee Delaney
Ja’Dais Richards = Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson > Daryl Porter
Jaquan Johnson > James Williams (for now)
Kamren Kinchens > Sheldrick Redwine

In the end both secondaries are Tied. 2017 may have produced great Results from our DBs but with the addition of: Guidry at DC, Richards/Brown/Brown/Stafford at CB I think we match that production/effectiveness

2023 3:2
2017 3:2

ST

2017:
K - Michael Bagdley

P - Zack Feagles

2023:

K - Andres Borregalas

P - Dylan Joyce

Overview: I will admit I know nothing about Dylan Joyce. But I at least know he can’t be worse than Feagles…Give me a Tie on this one.

Final:

2023
Better: QB, TE, OL
Equal: WR, DB, P/K
Worse: RB/DL/LB

Final thoughts: Each Team is stronger in different areas but overall very equal IMO. This years squad seems poised to have a much better Offense than 2017 (not to mention Dawson > Richt) but Diaz had a very Strong, disruptive defense with that 2017 squad that Fed off the Turnover chain and forced both #14 Vtech & #3 ND to 4 turnovers each in back weeks. The progression of:

- James Williams
- Wesley Bissainthe
- Leonard Taylor
- Tyler Harrel
- Colbie Young

Will quite honestly determine our teams ceiling. If those 5 elevate their play the way they have the potential to I believe we see a season similar to 2017 again.
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Geezus Man, what were you doing at 3:14am?
I like this BTW, Respect
 
Allabouttheu95 said:
Jacolby george is equal to Jeff Thomas?! Wow. I know he didn’t live up to the massive expectations but the guy made plays in as bad of offenses as you will find in modern football.

If jacolby george gives us Jeff Thomas production this year we will have a great season offensively. I highly doubt that happens
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Jeff Thomas' average season at Miami was 28 catches for 438 yards. I don't think those numbers are too impossible to replicate. He never caught more than 35 passes in a season either. His yards per catch went from 22 as a freshman to 16 to 12. So the longer he was here, the less explosive he was.

I'm not saying Jacolby George is better. I'm just saying Jeff Thomas wasn't nearly as good as a lot of people seem to be remembering.
 
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