2019 recruiting

hotshot

Sophomore
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,922
The only mistake Coach L made was not using the available scholarships. I agree, the FBI investigation was very bad but he could have added grad transfers to ensure he has a full compliment of players. As I mentioned earlier, depending on Dewan Hernandez, the Canes will have either 9 or 10 players for the 2019-20 season.
Lets learn from this experience and add 3 grad transfers to the roster to have 13 available players.
I was talking about what L himself might've done differently to NOT have his name dragged through the mud and the program hurt. Your post addresses address how to better deal with fallout when serious misfortune hits.
 

Consigliere

All-American
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
19,574
The only mistake Coach L made was not using the available scholarships.
This has been going on for numerous years now and it started way before the FBI investigation. We haven't filled our class (with recruits and transfers) in a long time. I don't remember the last time we went into the summer using all 13 scholarships. I think the last time we started a season with 11 "active" players was 2014-15.

(Active/Total Ships Used)

2018-19: 9/11 (McGusty is sitting out and Miller is redshirting)
2017-18: 10/12 (Wilson sat out and Gak redshirted)
2016-17: 9/11* (Gilmore sat out but was kicked out of school during the season)
2015-16: 10/11 (Muhammad sat out)
2014-15: 11/12 (Murphy sat out)

*Waardenburg sat out 2016-17 but arrived late. He is included in the numbers even though he sat and redshirted.

In addition, it isn't like everyone on scholarship is the best use of a scholarship. We've had kids do essentially nothing over their tenure. Perhaps we shouldn't keep a kid on scholarship that long if they're "useless". I understand that every kid won't be a great player for us and some may be depth. The problem is some of these kids shouldn't be on scholarship to begin with. Being inefficient hurts even more when you're using less than 13 ships to begin with.

----------------------

Since Coach L has been here , the following players have transferred out/left or been booted:

- Gilmore
- Palmer
- Lecomte
- Sherman
- Daniels
- Burnett
- J. Kelly
- Muhammad
- Wilson

That is more than ~1.125 ships gone per season. It should be expected, not just at Miami, that kids are going to leave before/during the season. Even more of a reason to keep filling the class, every year.
 

Consigliere

All-American
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
19,574
You are utterly clueless and obviously haven't been following canes basketball for the past two decades plus
Would you like to have an actual discussion? Please respond to the following:

This has been going on for numerous years now and it started way before the FBI investigation. We haven't filled our class (with recruits and transfers) in a long time. I don't remember the last time we went into the summer using all 13 scholarships. I think the last time we started a season with 11 "active" players was 2014-15.

(Active/Total Ships Used)

2018-19: 9/11 (McGusty is sitting out and Miller is redshirting)
2017-18: 10/12 (Wilson sat out and Gak redshirted)
2016-17: 9/11* (Gilmore sat out but was kicked out of school during the season)
2015-16: 10/11 (Muhammad sat out)
2014-15: 11/12 (Murphy sat out)

*Waardenburg sat out 2016-17 but arrived late. He is included in the numbers even though he sat and redshirted.

In addition, it isn't like everyone on scholarship is the best use of a scholarship. We've had kids do essentially nothing over their tenure. Perhaps we shouldn't keep a kid on scholarship that long if they're "useless". I understand that every kid won't be a great player for us and some may be depth. The problem is some of these kids shouldn't be on scholarship to begin with. Being inefficient hurts even more when you're using less than 13 ships to begin with.

----------------------

Since Coach L has been here , the following players have transferred out/left or been booted:

- Gilmore
- Palmer
- Lecomte
- Sherman
- Daniels
- Burnett
- J. Kelly
- Muhammad
- Wilson

That is more than ~1.125 ships gone per season. It should be expected, not just at Miami, that kids are going to leave before/during the season. Even more of a reason to keep filling the class, every year.
 

hotshot

Sophomore
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,922
Sorta depends on who you can sign, no? I recall the year (pre-L) where we only signed two kids, Akpejiori and Swoope. Neither were remotely ACC-level talent.

Miller is definitely someone you would NOT sign if you had it to do over again. I'll be kind and say the jury is still out on Waardenburg/Mack.

Not sure just filling the roster with bodies is the answer. Then again, hard to argue right now that even a few more of the Sam and Mack variety wouldn't be useful.
 

cyrez8

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
571
Would you like to have an actual discussion? Please respond to the following:

This has been going on for numerous years now and it started way before the FBI investigation. We haven't filled our class (with recruits and transfers) in a long time. I don't remember the last time we went into the summer using all 13 scholarships. I think the last time we started a season with 11 "active" players was 2014-15.

(Active/Total Ships Used)

2018-19: 9/11 (McGusty is sitting out and Miller is redshirting)
2017-18: 10/12 (Wilson sat out and Gak redshirted)
2016-17: 9/11* (Gilmore sat out but was kicked out of school during the season)
2015-16: 10/11 (Muhammad sat out)
2014-15: 11/12 (Murphy sat out)

*Waardenburg sat out 2016-17 but arrived late. He is included in the numbers even though he sat and redshirted.

In addition, it isn't like everyone on scholarship is the best use of a scholarship. We've had kids do essentially nothing over their tenure. Perhaps we shouldn't keep a kid on scholarship that long if they're "useless". I understand that every kid won't be a great player for us and some may be depth. The problem is some of these kids shouldn't be on scholarship to begin with. Being inefficient hurts even more when you're using less than 13 ships to begin with.

----------------------

Since Coach L has been here , the following players have transferred out/left or been booted:

- Gilmore
- Palmer
- Lecomte
- Sherman
- Daniels
- Burnett
- J. Kelly
- Muhammad
- Wilson

That is more than ~1.125 ships gone per season. It should be expected, not just at Miami, that kids are going to leave before/during the season. Even more of a reason to keep filling the class, every year.
The recruiting classes we have signed post Coach L and pre Coach L are all you need to analyze. You think teams always carry full 13 scholarships? You think Coach L has control of players breaking rules and getting themselves dismissed? That's just not reality bc of a myriad of issues. The FBI destroyed us by removing an entire recruiting class. Do you think that's just something we were going to recover from in a year? Devastating destruction levied by a complete and utter bullshit FBI investigation and the school should be looking into legal remedies against Adidas which I'm almost sure it already has for their involvement in this garbage.
 

Consigliere

All-American
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
19,574
Before we go down this road. Nobody is saying the FBI investigation didn't fuk us. But, we're saying there were issues before this investigation. The numbers are clear as day above.

Also, recruiting is not just signing new kids (HS Seniors) it is also bringing in transfers. Nobody really cares how we bring in the talent, just bring in the talent.

The recruiting classes we have signed post Coach L and pre Coach L are all you need to analyze.
We still had issues before the FBI investigation. See the numbers above.

You think teams always carry full 13 scholarships?
You used the word "always". Do I think teams "always" use the full 13 scholarships? Do I really need to answer this question? It doesn't mean we shouldn't use all 13 scholarships.

Using the numbers above, we only had 12 players on scholarship TWICE over the last 5 years. In addition, we struggle to get to 11 "active" ships before the season.

You think Coach L has control of players breaking rules and getting themselves dismissed? That's just not reality bc of a myriad of issues.
Did anyone blame Coach L for a player breaking a rule? This doesn't mean that Coach L shouldn't expect at least 1 kid to be dismissed/transfer out for some reason. This is only further proof that he needs to expect someone to leave and have another player on scholarship.

So I think it is safe to say that another player, regardless of the reason, may leave the team next year.

Knowing this, bring in another player. Keep using your scholarships.

The FBI destroyed us by removing an entire recruiting class. Do you think that's just something we were going to recover from in a year? Devastating destruction levied by a complete and utter bullshit FBI investigation and the school should be looking into legal remedies against Adidas which I'm almost sure it already has for their involvement in this garbage.
None of this explains the issues that occurred before the FBI Investigation.
 

Da_Lucky_One

Freshman
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
205
This has been going on for numerous years now and it started way before the FBI investigation. We haven't filled our class (with recruits and transfers) in a long time. I don't remember the last time we went into the summer using all 13 scholarships. I think the last time we started a season with 11 "active" players was 2014-15.

(Active/Total Ships Used)

2018-19: 9/11 (McGusty is sitting out and Miller is redshirting)
2017-18: 10/12 (Wilson sat out and Gak redshirted)
2016-17: 9/11* (Gilmore sat out but was kicked out of school during the season)
2015-16: 10/11 (Muhammad sat out)
2014-15: 11/12 (Murphy sat out)

*Waardenburg sat out 2016-17 but arrived late. He is included in the numbers even though he sat and redshirted.

In addition, it isn't like everyone on scholarship is the best use of a scholarship. We've had kids do essentially nothing over their tenure. Perhaps we shouldn't keep a kid on scholarship that long if they're "useless". I understand that every kid won't be a great player for us and some may be depth. The problem is some of these kids shouldn't be on scholarship to begin with. Being inefficient hurts even more when you're using less than 13 ships to begin with.

----------------------

Since Coach L has been here , the following players have transferred out/left or been booted:

- Gilmore
- Palmer
- Lecomte
- Sherman
- Daniels
- Burnett
- J. Kelly
- Muhammad
- Wilson

That is more than ~1.125 ships gone per season. It should be expected, not just at Miami, that kids are going to leave before/during the season. Even more of a reason to keep filling the class, every year.
We are both saying the same thing. You are correct, Miami does not use all of its scholarships and that needs to stop. I hope this has been an eye opening experience for the coaching staff.

I have no problem with players leaving the program in pursuit for more playing time at another school. The bigger issue is when the coaching staff does not add a grad transfer to immediately fill the need for depth on the roster. Not using the scholarship only makes the issue worse. IMO.

I don't have a problem with Rodney Miller redshirting, the problem is the lack of depth on the roster to support his redshirt year. Rodney Miller should have redshirted his freshman year but due to a lack of depth, he sat at the end of the bench and hardly played in 2016-17. That is a roster management issue that is fully on the coaching staff.

Fast forward to the summer of 2019, currently Miami has 10 players expected to be on the roster for next season. That number could shrink to 8 if Dewan does not return for his senior season or if loses his appeal plus Kam McGusty could get kicked off the team in October 2019. I hope both are on the team next season but in a worse case scenario, the coaching staff needs to add 3 grad transfers (1 perimeter player and 2 bigs) at a minimum so the roster can be at 11 (worse case scenario) or 13 players.

I think we all agree, the Miami coaching staff has a roster management issue they has mishandled for multiple years now.


In his post game press conference, Coach L states he will be recruiting this week since the Canes only have 1 game. He says we needs bodies and he is correct. It sounds like and I hope he has learned a very important lesson about roster management.

IMO, I would prefer 3 grad transfers in 2019 instead of 3 more true freshman as the 2020 recruiting class has more talent than the 2019 class per the recruiting services.
 

CTCANE

Junior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
2,009
I think we all agree, the Miami coaching staff has a roster management issue they has mishandled for multiple years now.

No I do not agree. We lost at least 2 probably 3 last recruiting class because of the FBI garbage, Wilson was dismissed from the team, Gak injured and no Dewan. That is why we are so shorthanded this year. Circumstances beyond Coach L's control. Also, there are a TON of transfers in college basketball now, not just at Miami. We are also adding McGusty next year.
 

hotshot

Sophomore
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,922
Again, would anyone advocate just signing any player, regardless if they were a Rodney MIller, Mack, or Akpejiori, just to use all the schollys? Past recruiting has shown (much less so with L) that it's highly possible we can't attract enough ACC-quality players to justify using all our scholarships available.
 

Consigliere

All-American
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
19,574
We are both saying the same thing. You are correct, Miami does not use all of its scholarships and that needs to stop. I hope this has been an eye opening experience for the coaching staff.

I have no problem with players leaving the program in pursuit for more playing time at another school. The bigger issue is when the coaching staff does not add a grad transfer to immediately fill the need for depth on the roster. Not using the scholarship only makes the issue worse. IMO.

I don't have a problem with Rodney Miller redshirting, the problem is the lack of depth on the roster to support his redshirt year. Rodney Miller should have redshirted his freshman year but due to a lack of depth, he sat at the end of the bench and hardly played in 2016-17. That is a roster management issue that is fully on the coaching staff.

Fast forward to the summer of 2019, currently Miami has 10 players expected to be on the roster for next season. That number could shrink to 8 if Dewan does not return for his senior season or if loses his appeal plus Kam McGusty could get kicked off the team in October 2019. I hope both are on the team next season but in a worse case scenario, the coaching staff needs to add 3 grad transfers (1 perimeter player and 2 bigs) at a minimum so the roster can be at 11 (worse case scenario) or 13 players.

I think we all agree, the Miami coaching staff has a roster management issue they has mishandled for multiple years now.
A few things:

1. This whole Rodney Miller Jr thing makes no sense. When Gak played his first minutes for us this year, he was already more productive than Miller was at any point in his tenure. Not only that, Gak was the backup. I don't understand why Miller is on scholarship to begin with. So your backup is already better than your tenured player. I posted about Miller's scholarship in this tread (https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/9-“active”-ships.139468/).

2. I highly doubt Dewan comes back next year regardless.

3. The staff needs to bring in a bunch of transfers because I don't see anymore 2019 HS recruits coming this year.
 

hotshot

Sophomore
Joined
Nov 30, 2011
Messages
1,922
Not sure Dewan will have the choice of coming back next year. That has not been made clear.
 

Kapulaites

Recruit
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Messages
106
A few things:

1. This whole Rodney Miller Jr thing makes no sense. When Gak played his first minutes for us this year, he was already more productive than Miller was at any point in his tenure. Not only that, Gak was the backup. I don't understand why Miller is on scholarship to begin with. So your backup is already better than your tenured player. I posted about Miller's scholarship in this tread (https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/9-“active”-ships.139468/).

2. I highly doubt Dewan comes back next year regardless.

3. The staff needs to bring in a bunch of transfers because I don't see anymore 2019 HS recruits coming this year.
Miller was so out of shape. Coach L is trying to have more depth for the future. WHy not have Gak and Miller? Miller showed some ability at the end of last year.

I think Coach L did screw up by not Red-Shirting Izundu but whatever.
 

Da_Lucky_One

Freshman
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
205
A few things:

1. This whole Rodney Miller Jr thing makes no sense. When Gak played his first minutes for us this year, he was already more productive than Miller was at any point in his tenure. Not only that, Gak was the backup. I don't understand why Miller is on scholarship to begin with. So your backup is already better than your tenured player. I posted about Miller's scholarship in this tread (https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/9-“active”-ships.139468/).

2. I highly doubt Dewan comes back next year regardless.

3. The staff needs to bring in a bunch of transfers because I don't see anymore 2019 HS recruits coming this year.
Just to respond to your post:

1. Rodney Miller is still 7 feet tall and that normally gets a player a scholarship. In my opinion, he was a project and all projects needs to redshirt. The issue again was how the coaches mishandled the situation and had him sitting on the bench not playing in games for two years. I never envisioned Rodney Miller being anything more that a project but he could become a decent reserve player with the proper skill development along with a good strength and conditioning program.

2. I agree but you have to be prepared for both situations. No one knows for sure until a decision is made.

3. I am glad we agree that grad transfers are the best way to use the remaining scholarships available for the 2019-2020 season. 3 if Dewan returns and 4 if Dewan is not on the team.
 

Da_Lucky_One

Freshman
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
205
I was talking about what L himself might've done differently to NOT have his name dragged through the mud and the program hurt. Your post addresses address how to better deal with fallout when serious misfortune hits.
Absolutely. We have talked about the FBI investigation enough. Nothing will change about that situation. I have moved on and it is time to get the basketball program back on track. The grad transfer is a great way to make your team competitive in the short term until a long term solution has been install. I mentioned it earlier on comment #216, Miami should add at least 3 grad transfers for the 2019-20 season.
Just my opinion.
 
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