1999 Era Recruiting vs Today (Derailed Maason Smith thread)

He was a track guy....
I don't even think that was right. I think that was the argument given for him getting a scholarship when he wasn't actually recruited. Maybe he ran track for a season. But he was supposedly a football player and he didn't stick around and run track. Where'd he end up?
 
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I don't even think that was right. I think that was the argument given for him getting a scholarship when he wasn't actually recruited. Maybe he ran track for a season. But he was supposedly a football player and he didn't stick around and run track. Where'd he end up?
I was just making a Randy Shannon joke. No idea about him.
 
I'm curious. How old are you or better yet how long have you been following us? Cause our history isn't made up of stacking blue chip kids or shuffling between them. It's the exact opposite. We stacked our chips by taking kids who were coachable and lived and died with football. We coached those mid level kids up to be monsters on a regular basis... That's our history brother. What you're describing is the formula at the blue blood factory programs and for them it works. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just know to get classes FULL of elite recruits isn't exa you practical here from a consistency standpoint simply because of all the extra factors that go into elite talent. By truly developing what you do have the gap narrows. The end goal is obviously getting the best results possible out of each kid.

D, I’ve been around recruiting for a while (started really following in 88-89). While what you say in general is true, this is no longer the 90s and even 00s. It’s the age of information and local diamonds in the rough are harder to evaluate and there is much more competition for them: the last 10-15 years has also seen the age of bagmen really get out of control in the arms race of recruiting where schools across the board are stacking chips.

I do think we’ve gotten less National over the past 10-12 years - we used to be much better are scouting National guys 20+ years ago. For some reason we’ve largely abandoned that approach.
 
I don't even think that was right. I think that was the argument given for him getting a scholarship when he wasn't actually recruited. Maybe he ran track for a season. But he was supposedly a football player and he didn't stick around and run track. Where'd he end up?
I think jail but not positive. ill look it up.
 
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I'm curious. How old are you or better yet how long have you been following us? Cause our history isn't made up of stacking blue chip kids or shuffling between them. It's the exact opposite. We stacked our chips by taking kids who were coachable and lived and died with football. We coached those mid level kids up to be monsters on a regular basis... That's our history brother. What you're describing is the formula at the blue blood factory programs and for them it works. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just know to get classes FULL of elite recruits isn't exa you practical here from a consistency standpoint simply because of all the extra factors that go into elite talent. By truly developing what you do have the gap narrows. The end goal is obviously getting the best results possible out of each kid.
28 year old Cane fan here... not sure I buy the whole we didn’t have classes full of elite recruits back in the day. I just think that their was a lot more hidden gems that we found because we are located in the most talent rich area in the country for football.
The canes of old that we all consider the greats were mostly superior athletes to who they weee playing. The superior athleticism paired with that South Florida dog mentality was what I grew up always thinking was what made us. Not necessarily supreme development of less talented kids.
The same elite south Florida recruits that go to the Alabama’s and Georgia’s now a days were the same one that just stayed home back the. We just didn’t have a ton of recruiting sites and camps to help with ranking everybody
 
28 year old Cane fan here... not sure I buy the whole we didn’t have classes full of elite recruits back in the day. I just think that their was a lot more hidden gems that we found because we are located in the most talent rich area in the country for football.
The canes of old that we all consider the greats were mostly superior athletes to who they weee playing. The superior athleticism paired with that South Florida dog mentality was what I grew up always thinking was what made us. Not necessarily supreme development of less talented kids.
The same elite south Florida recruits that go to the Alabama’s and Georgia’s now a days were the same one that just stayed home back the. We just didn’t have a ton of recruiting sites and camps to help with ranking everybody
I wrote this on the old grassy recruiting board ages and ages ago. There are a limited number of kids each year with the potential to become first round picks/high round picks. Very limited if you look locally. Our staff’s job is to get their share of them. Fail and we won’t be winning titles. Don’t care how they do it. Doesn’t matter. Diamonds in the rough, local 5* kids, 4*s evaluated right, whatever. Get them or don’t. Win or don’t.
 
Evaluations.

Which of our kids who become monsters wouldn't have been great had they gone elsewhere?

We don't need to sign other people's top 10 list. We do need to sign the right kids, well evaluated.
Ehh. I could debate that all day. Plenty of our kids who became monsters here are probably relatively average in most other spots. Just like plenty of kids we've had recently could be monsters in the right spots while they've been good to average here. But #1 absolutely does come down to evaluations... No shadow of a doubt on that. But we've been dead on with plenty of evaluations over the last few staphs yet have failed to get peak results out of them for numerous factors. Some coaching, some competition, some favoritism, some mental approach, grades, etc. Tomatoes to tomotoes hermano. We're basically saying the same thing. If all we do is go after blue chips were basically discarding our own ability to evaluate and saying all we can do is go off of a national and local scouts evaluations instead of our own. That'll be a real bad day when we finally admit that.
 
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I'm curious. How old are you or better yet how long have you been following us? Cause our history isn't made up of stacking blue chip kids or shuffling between them. It's the exact opposite. We stacked our chips by taking kids who were coachable and lived and died with football. We coached those mid level kids up to be monsters on a regular basis... That's our history brother. What you're describing is the formula at the blue blood factory programs and for them it works. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just know to get classes FULL of elite recruits isn't exa you practical here from a consistency standpoint simply because of all the extra factors that go into elite talent. By truly developing what you do have the gap narrows. The end goal is obviously getting the best results possible out of each kid.

This is the most correct 💯post on this site in recent memory. Miami found hungry, underrated players, developed them and then complimented that with some elite talent. We didn't have rosters full of 5 stars. Some of the underrated players turned into studs equivalent to a 5 star, but even the ones who didn't were solid contributors. The solid (non elite) played smart football, didn't make mistakes and inevitably one of the elite playmakers would have an opportunity to make a game changing play.

Good example this year is Flagg + Phillips . Flagg is a solid LB, cerebral, takes good angles but somewhat limited athletically . Not likely going to make game changing sacks or INTs but he's the type of player who throughout the game helps with hidden yardage. Instead of 2nd and 4, the offense is consistently in 2nd and 8 because he tackles well on first down . Because it's 2nd and 8, the opposition tries to pass and then an athletic freak like Philips sacks the QB or tips the pass so another player gets an INT. The solid player and elite player work in tandem. Miami doesn't need a #1 class and 22 5 stars to build a championship roster.
 
I don't even think that was right. I think that was the argument given for him getting a scholarship when he wasn't actually recruited. Maybe he ran track for a season. But he was supposedly a football player and he didn't stick around and run track. Where'd he end up?
Im assuming y'all talking bout latawn anderson. Aka tmac 2.0 that boy would've been the truth. But he couldn't even come close to getting out his own way. Kid had four known robberies here over the course of a year and one of them was the assistant to shalalalaalllalalalalalalalalalalla. Needless to say that boy wasn't staying around here. Lol
 
I'm curious. How old are you or better yet how long have you been following us? Cause our history isn't made up of stacking blue chip kids or shuffling between them. It's the exact opposite. We stacked our chips by taking kids who were coachable and lived and died with football. We coached those mid level kids up to be monsters on a regular basis... That's our history brother. What you're describing is the formula at the blue blood factory programs and for them it works. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just know to get classes FULL of elite recruits isn't exa you practical here from a consistency standpoint simply because of all the extra factors that go into elite talent. By truly developing what you do have the gap narrows. The end goal is obviously getting the best results possible out of each kid.
One of the most intelligent posts I have seen here, ever. I have been saying this in posts for years. We were NOT stacking chips during the JJ era. People that say that have no idea what the true history is. JJ said he’d rather not take a blue chipper who never gets better; instead, he’d rather take a kid with potential and a burning desire who gets better every time he steps on the practice field.

Butch’s great work in the late ‘90’s was not much different. We always got the creme de la creme, like Jesse Armstead and D.J. Williams, but we got many more terrific kids who turned out just as good.

Maybe the mods should start penalizing dumb porsters, forcing them to run CIS steps, require them to pay for the wonderful ads (which I am fortunate to get for free) and other such painful and onerous and draconian penalties as shall be determined. We don’t need more fake history by uninformed underaged childrens who were not yet born (and still might barely be out of utero).

I have been following UM football generally since ‘55-‘56 and recruiting intensely since about ‘84. In the ‘80’s I subscribed to every newsletter, talked often to their publishers, and talked regularly to my friends in Miami who were very well connected. (As an aside, Kehoe was very friendly and a great source).
 
D, I’ve been around recruiting for a while (started really following in 88-89). While what you say in general is true, this is no longer the 90s and even 00s. It’s the age of information and local diamonds in the rough are harder to evaluate and there is much more competition for them: the last 10-15 years has also seen the age of bagmen really get out of control in the arms race of recruiting where schools across the board are stacking chips.

I do think we’ve gotten less National over the past 10-12 years - we used to be much better are scouting National guys 20+ years ago. For some reason we’ve largely abandoned that approach.
You're giving staphs, ours in particular excuses they aren't paid for. Yes social media has obviously made the recruiting land scape very different. However it hasn't changed at all a individuals ability to evaluate our own kids and coach the kids we do land up properly... You feel free to look at the numbers year in and year out and see how many all americans,all conference kids in p5,early round draft picks etc are all blue chippers... Sheer numbers alone show you that's simply not possible. I'm in the music field primarily but I'm still very well established in that world as well. I have far too many kids reach out to me daily or kids families with stories that would make you sick brother. Evaluations aren't going anywhere any time soon. Rankings are based primarily upon a kid and his families financial ability to get in front of camps,scouts and coaches. TONS OF FAMILIES FLAT OUT CANT DO THAT... So while it's not as common to find diamonds in the rough,that's not because they aren't present. It's because most coaches and lazy *** recruiting coordinators would rather sit in their office to establish targets based upon clips and camps rather than get out in the field & trust their own eye. It's largely due to the fact they prioritize their recruiting budgets elsewhere and have devalued the information received from high schools coaches and the network they've built up throughout the years. You don't believe me feel free to ask any high school coach who's been around that same length of time u speak on.
 
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Im assuming y'all talking bout latawn anderson. Aka tmac 2.0 that boy would've been the truth. But he couldn't even come close to getting out his own way. Kid had four known robberies here over the course of a year and one of them was the assistant to shalalalaalllalalalalalalalalalalla. Needless to say that boy wasn't staying around here. Lol
Didnt know about the robberies. What a mess.
 
28 year old Cane fan here... not sure I buy the whole we didn’t have classes full of elite recruits back in the day. I just think that their was a lot more hidden gems that we found because we are located in the most talent rich area in the country for football.
The canes of old that we all consider the greats were mostly superior athletes to who they weee playing. The superior athleticism paired with that South Florida dog mentality was what I grew up always thinking was what made us. Not necessarily supreme development of less talented kids.
The same elite south Florida recruits that go to the Alabama’s and Georgia’s now a days were the same one that just stayed home back the. We just didn’t have a ton of recruiting sites and camps to help with ranking everybody
You're saying (whether you realize it or not)two separate things though. I'm not talking about their talent levels. That's not what he was discussing. We were talking specifically about their rankings. That's what blue chip means. The high 4 and 5 star kids... And again whether you buy it or not THATS NEVER BEEN US. we would get some of course. But that was the minority and a big one at that rather than any majority. We'd have a **** ton of us that were under rated kids who we all got around each other and developed due to our peers and our coaches that actually knew football and what it would take to get us from being hungry to being dogs. Period. It's not even debatable. I was one of them.
 
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This is the most correct 💯post on this site in recent memory. Miami found hungry, underrated players, developed them and then complimented that with some elite talent. We didn't have rosters full of 5 stars. Some of the underrated players turned into studs equivalent to a 5 star, but even the ones who didn't were solid contributors. The solid (non elite) played smart football, didn't make mistakes and inevitably one of the elite playmakers would have an opportunity to make a game changing play.

Good example this year is Flagg + Phillips . Flagg is a solid LB, cerebral, takes good angles but somewhat limited athletically . Not likely going to make game changing sacks or INTs but he's the type of player who throughout the game helps with hidden yardage. Instead of 2nd and 4, the offense is consistently in 2nd and 8 because he tackles well on first down . Because it's 2nd and 8, the opposition tries to pass and then an athletic freak like Philips sacks the QB or tips the pass so another player gets an INT. The solid player and elite player work in tandem. Miami doesn't need a #1 class and 22 5 stars to build a championship roster.
For anyone that wants to argue that fact it's real simple. Or atleast I'll make it simple Dan morgan,Vilma, ray, warren, ed, sean... Do I really gotta keep doing this? I can go on and on. We developed whatever we got and made us all the best possible version of ourselves. Simple. Some of the best ever PERIOD. Fvck just here. Period, EVER IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL,COLLEGE,NFL , weren't blue chips at all and they became ICONS right here under coaches most of y'all steady talk **** about...
 
Im assuming y'all talking bout latawn anderson. Aka tmac 2.0 that boy would've been the truth. But he couldn't even come close to getting out his own way. Kid had four known robberies here over the course of a year and one of them was the assistant to shalalalaalllalalalalalalalalalalla. Needless to say that boy wasn't staying around here. Lol
He is in prison now
 
You're giving staphs, ours in particular excuses they aren't paid for. Yes social media has obviously made the recruiting land scape very different. However it hasn't changed at all a individuals ability to evaluate our own kids and coach the kids we do land up properly... You feel free to look at the numbers year in and year out and see how many all americans,all conference kids in p5,early round draft picks etc are all blue chippers... Sheer numbers alone show you that's simply not possible. I'm in the music field primarily but I'm still very well established in that world as well. I have far too many kids reach out to me daily or kids families with stories that would make you sick brother. Evaluations aren't going anywhere any time soon. Rankings are based primarily upon a kid and his families financial ability to get in front of camps,scouts and coaches. TONS OF FAMILIES FLAT OUT CANT DO THAT... So while it's not as common to find diamonds in the rough,that's not because they aren't present. It's because most coaches and lazy *** recruiting coordinators would rather sit in their office to establish targets based upon clips and camps rather than get out in the field & trust their own eye. It's largely due to the fact they prioritize their recruiting budgets elsewhere and have devalued the information received from high schools coaches and the network they've built up throughout the years. You don't believe me feel free to ask any high school coach who's been around that same length of time u speak on.
Just curious who all these lowly recruited high school guys are? As a younger Canes fan I realize I may just not know.
But you telling me all of the guys like Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Ed Reed, Willis Mcgahee, Clinton Portia, Sean Taylor, Michael Irvin, Winslow jr. we’re all underrated guys in high school?
 
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