WR's running free... Question for people who know X's & O's

[FrancisSawyer]

You guys are discussing route combinations when your best Receiver is Rashawn Scott?

The issue is that Golden missed out on almost every receiver. Travis Rudolph should be playing for UM. Under James Coley our wide receivers have done excellent.

Allen Hurns 1162 Yards
Phillip Dorsett 880 Yards
Clive Walford 700 Yards

If UM had elite talent at the WR position you would see a huge difference

If you want to go with the lack of talent at WR argument then route combinations become even more important. We may not have a group consisting of Santana Moss, Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson but a trio of Scott, Waters and Coley can hardly be considered pedestrian. The Golden/Coley pair however is as mediocre as it gets which is the root of any potential problem.

What really interests me is what kind of impact if any Kevin Beard has had on this group. It was the first game of the season against a vastly inferior opponent missing two of the top 4 WR. That isn't to make an excuse for the lackluster performance but we need to see significant improvement against FAU, Nebraska ....and so on.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

Coley and Jedd have the same issues. No feel. No rhythm. No identity.

Jedd > Coley. His recruiting left a lot to be desired, but I thought JF had a pretty good feel for the game. If Coley was the OC in 2012, we have a losing season. JF wasn't with all that slowing the O down to pad the D stats.

 

[Coach Macho]

He doesn't use route concepts that get guys open. It just looks like he's got guys running random routes and leaving it to the QB to find the open guy.

I don't see us attempting to "high/low" a defender. The coaches at these innovative spread teams are using concepts that put defenders in a bind and force them to make split decisions on who they will cover. (i.e. run a hitch in front of a linebacker and a dig behind him)

Maybe I'm wrong but I seldom see guys open in this offense. Definitely doesn't look anything like the spread offenses I see around the country.

We had a true freshman who didnt enroll early and is not that talented go for 26 and 12 last year.....Cmon Macho u better than this...Plus two of his top 3 receivers went down first drive against bethune

There is a reason we struggle with 3rd down conversion, Vern. Part of it is overall strategy to get to manageable down and distance, another part of it is that his route combinations rarely put pressure on coverages. As was noted, his routes are rarely layered. Another indicator is how much we have struggled against zone vs how well we've often done vs man. This is not new to this season, so the "we have average talent at WR" argument is weakened.

He's actually a very good scripter of plays, it seems, and will sometimes scheme his way to a big play (see: big Walford TD vs FSU), but when the planned bullets are all out, it seems we're unable to counter the opponent's adjustments.

Hope that changes this year. Kaaya should be a big help in being more dynamic vs zone.

The bottom line that you and other are missing is talent. If you want to do all that you have stated then Golden is going to have to wins some recruiting battles. Are you guys really discussing route trees when your wide outs average a 4.6 forty?

Huh?


If you lack explosiveness at the WR position then that's even more of a reason to use great route concepts. How else are 4.6 WR's supposed to get open?

 

[Coach Macho]

WTF does talent have to do with the concepts I'm looking at on Saturdays?

 

[BigDikCane]

He doesn't use route concepts that get guys open. It just looks like he's got guys running random routes and leaving it to the QB to find the open guy.

I don't see us attempting to "high/low" a defender. The coaches at these innovative spread teams are using concepts that put defenders in a bind and force them to make split decisions on who they will cover. (i.e. run a hitch in front of a linebacker and a dig behind him)

Maybe I'm wrong but I seldom see guys open in this offense. Definitely doesn't look anything like the spread offenses I see around the country.

+1 dammit mane...

 

[wudee]

he only studied under Jimbo. What you seen from the LSU/fSU OFFENSES IS WHAT WE SEE HERE....bunch of quick screens and b.s. route combos..i rarely see under routes or pick routes used.

Coley int an x and o guy never was...he's learning on the job. Still is better than No frio/Golden combo though

his lsu n fsu offenses werent the same and i've seen people get wide open up there n tally

 

[DLINKDAGR8]

My biggest question. The first half against FSU. Was that luck or did Coley actually know what he was doing? I had concerns that golden was holding him back. I'm hoping he was holding back Saturday. History tells me Saturday was no fluke.

 

[plantcity3]

As some have said, or route combinations doesnt put defenders in a bind

 

[Grisha.Otrepyev]

he only studied under Jimbo. What you seen from the LSU/fSU OFFENSES IS WHAT WE SEE HERE....bunch of quick screens and b.s. route combos..i rarely see under routes or pick routes used.

Coley int an x and o guy never was...he's learning on the job. Still is better than No frio/Golden combo though

his lsu n fsu offenses werent the same and i've seen people get wide open up there n tally

Yeah. Look at Greene and Oleary. Neither were "explosive" guys, yet were wide open all the time. Winston wasn't throwing bubble screens, and unlike Dorsett, Teams aren't having to teach their guys intermediate routes.

Macho mentioned hi/lo... But Levels, smash, curl/flats (plays that force a single defender to make a choice)... This is basic Jimbo stuff. Jimbo isn't an innovator but they run all the option routes aNd everything else the NFL expects. so why doesn't Coley? he has to know this stuff.

Football isn't that hard. Urban/Mullen creates a zone beating passing concept like "Houston", and a few years later everyone else starts using it. OSU copied Oregons RPO (run, pass, option) concepts last year. an real OC studies other offenses and incorporates stuff into their schemes.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

IMO, Trickett makes that offense go. I've always liked His O-Lines, they do very little pulling, and they rarely give you "tells". And I don't think He's had that many highly rated kids to work with.

But player wise, outside of Winston, I think O'Leary was instrumental in their success. Kid was a helluva blocker, and had a knack for making big catches to keep critical drives going.

 

[jerzeycane]

Curl/Flat is so freaking basic too. If anybody has played Madden they should have a basic understanding of it and the advantages it creates.

 

[daddacane]

We have a coach named Kevin Beard who will address these problems and correct them..

 

[blackvern]

He doesn't use route concepts that get guys open. It just looks like he's got guys running random routes and leaving it to the QB to find the open guy.

I don't see us attempting to "high/low" a defender. The coaches at these innovative spread teams are using concepts that put defenders in a bind and force them to make split decisions on who they will cover. (i.e. run a hitch in front of a linebacker and a dig behind him)

Maybe I'm wrong but I seldom see guys open in this offense. Definitely doesn't look anything like the spread offenses I see around the country.

We had a true freshman who didnt enroll early and is not that talented go for 26 and 12 last year.....Cmon Macho u better than this...Plus two of his top 3 receivers went down first drive against bethune

There is a reason we struggle with 3rd down conversion, Vern. Part of it is overall strategy to get to manageable down and distance, another part of it is that his route combinations rarely put pressure on coverages. As was noted, his routes are rarely layered. Another indicator is how much we have struggled against zone vs how well we've often done vs man. This is not new to this season, so the "we have average talent at WR" argument is weakened.

He's actually a very good scripter of plays, it seems, and will sometimes scheme his way to a big play (see: big Walford TD vs FSU), but when the planned bullets are all out, it seems we're unable to counter the opponent's adjustments.

Hope that changes this year. Kaaya should be a big help in being more dynamic vs zone.

I understand what were saying here... Coleys 3rd down conversions can get better...

However with a statue immobile QB in college we are never gonna be a great 3rd down conversion team....It is what it its these days I would say almost 70% of teams have mobile QB's we dont...In order for us to be a better offense a change of phillsophy is needed..

We were in pistol last night i liked that I liked our formations... Kaaya was very inaccurate towards the end of the season last year..he was very inaccurate last night he missed berrios for a wide open 3rd down and destoyed his knee and Scott dropped one. With an immobile QB we wont be better than 40% best case scenario 45% anywhere between that we should be fine... last year we were 37% we need improvement i understand that.

I like Coley I think he was held back last year and had a true freshman who was great at times and erratic at times....Im not worried about Coley, Im worried about the other coaches like you say and Im a little worried about Kaaya's accuracy on his short passes and slants he is not that accurate

 

[Cane Dynasty]

Butch Davis.

 

[ray_ray]

We played Bethune! We're not opening the playbook for BETHUNE! You get pretty vanilla stuff against this caliber of team or did we all forget that?

 

[fincane]

he only studied under Jimbo. What you seen from the LSU/fSU OFFENSES IS WHAT WE SEE HERE....bunch of quick screens and b.s. route combos..i rarely see under routes or pick routes used.

Coley int an x and o guy never was...he's learning on the job. Still is better than No frio/Golden combo though

his lsu n fsu offenses werent the same and i've seen people get wide open up there n tally

Football isn't that hard. Urban/Mullen creates a zone beating passing concept like "Houston", and a few years later everyone else starts using it. OSU copied Oregons RPO (run, pass, option) concepts last year. an real OC studies other offenses and incorporates stuff into their schemes.

We saw the "run, pass, option" play twice against Bethune. Both times(Kaaya once and Rosier once) the QBs threw high. I guess it is part of the emphasis to include more spread concepts into the offense. Considering we haven't been able to block a bubble or tunnel screen since 2013 I expect that play to be a disaster as well.

 

[Coach Macho]

We played Bethune! We're not opening the playbook for BETHUNE! You get pretty vanilla stuff against this caliber of team or did we all forget that?

Yet we ran zone/read with a bubble pass at least twice, which is something we've never done here.

 

[DLINKDAGR8]

We played Bethune! We're not opening the playbook for BETHUNE! You get pretty vanilla stuff against this caliber of team or did we all forget that?

That's what I'm hoping but history says we saw what we're going to get for the rest of the season

 

[Supercane85]

He doesn't use route concepts that get guys open. It just looks like he's got guys running random routes and leaving it to the QB to find the open guy.

I don't see us attempting to "high/low" a defender. The coaches at these innovative spread teams are using concepts that put defenders in a bind and force them to make split decisions on who they will cover. (i.e. run a hitch in front of a linebacker and a dig behind him)

Maybe I'm wrong but I seldom see guys open in this offense. Definitely doesn't look anything like the spread offenses I see around the country.

We had a true freshman who didnt enroll early and is not that talented go for 26 and 12 last year.....Cmon Macho u better than this...Plus two of his top 3 receivers went down first drive against bethune

There is a reason we struggle with 3rd down conversion, Vern. Part of it is overall strategy to get to manageable down and distance, another part of it is that his route combinations rarely put pressure on coverages. As was noted, his routes are rarely layered. Another indicator is how much we have struggled against zone vs how well we've often done vs man. This is not new to this season, so the "we have average talent at WR" argument is weakened.

He's actually a very good scripter of plays, it seems, and will sometimes scheme his way to a big play (see: big Walford TD vs FSU), but when the planned bullets are all out, it seems we're unable to counter the opponent's adjustments.

Hope that changes this year. Kaaya should be a big help in being more dynamic vs zone.

The bottom line that you and other are missing is talent. If you want to do all that you have stated then Golden is going to have to wins some recruiting battles. Are you guys really discussing route trees when your wide outs average a 4.6 forty?

Huh?


If you lack explosiveness at the WR position then that's even more of a reason to use great route concepts. How else are 4.6 WR's supposed to get open?

If you want to toss the ball all over the field you will need to recruit some receivers. We have missed the last few years at wide out and it shows

 

[HighSeas]

Coley offense is bubble screens and random isolation routes from random alignments. The only genuine route concept I've seen him use regularly is the smash concept (vertical stretch, Cover 2 beater) which got Waters a TD against UF in 2013 but UF was in man coverage anyway. The smash concept is a Jimbo staple.

I do like the way Coley features the TE with lots of option routes -stick, seam, or flat routes. I could be wrong but it looks like we used the mesh concept in the red zone on the Dobard TD [video=youtube;0_lMbyesCqI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_lMbyesCqI[/video]

, so perhaps Coley has been watching Chip Kelly film. Kaaya would be a surgeon in a Chip Kelly offense.