forums

Would Butch be the best possible hire?

Cost - Check.

Recruiter - Check.

Talent Evaluator - Check.

Talent Developer - Check.

Team Builder - Check.

Recruits Three Deep - Check.

Selects Athletes First - Check.

Picks Good Coordinators - Check.

Picks Good Position Coaches - Check.

Familiar with UM - Check.

Familiar with UM Speed - Check.

Uses UM Quickness - Check.

Defenses are Rabid - Check.

Good Relationship with High School Coaches - Check.

Stocks NFL Talent - Check.


What the **** - why not?
 
Advertisement
If the University is interested in going cheap, after all this time, then absolutely he's your best candidate.

If the choice is Butch, Jeremy Pruitt, Chad Morris, Schiano, Chud, and Lane Kiffin, it's a NO BRAINER you take Butch.

However, if the university decides it's time to join the 21st century and actually spend some cash (which it has plenty of), and a guy like Chip Kelly is out there, you absolutely go for broke.

I think people need to temper their expectations on what exactly a Butch Davis team looks like. It's a slow burn. It could be a few years before you see any great results, just how he operates.
 
NVA I actually think Butch is a better game day coach then you're giving him credit for being. Was he great on game day? No, but Butch would be plenty good enough with the staff he would build and the talent that he will amass. In his final year with us - 2000 - we lost once. Any doubt we don't win two out of the next three national championships with him at the helm?

UMArcher and SFBAY have made the argument why Butch, and I concur with them, for the sake of argument I'm waiting to hear what candidates you think will be available that would be better than Butch? Honestly, do you have someone in mind?
 
NVA CANE said:
I'm not gonna lie, the talent he racked up at UNC was phenomenal so we know he can load a roster with talent, but the record did not match the talent he had and that's my concern.
Click to expand...

I think if the ridiculous number of suspensions hadn't gone down that 2010 team would have been a 10+, possible bcs game contender.

Don't forget they lost like 10+ players for the opener against LSU that year (6 point loss) and for assorted lengths throughout the season.
You take a future top two round NFL DT, DE and WR off any team and that will create some losses.
 
NVA CANE said:
I think we need to ask ourselves that question before we continue calling for him. He's good, but I think there are some question marks and better options.

Would he he be able to replicate what he did in the 90s/00s?
How long would he take to turn things around and how long are people willing to wait?

I think there are a couple coaches that are the real deal that we should look at ahead of Butch. Sure he's done it before but his returning is no guarantee of success.

Theres a lot of nostalgia with Butch but I'm afraid it may not be so easily replicated as many of think.
Click to expand...

are there better options? maybe

are they unemployed right now? nope

would the UM admin find them and get them here? nope

they cant miss on Butch
 
Gatorhater said:
Hey, MAYBE someone else could do the job, but NOBODY this side of 6 or 7 million a year would be the instant jump start Butch carries with him. We instantly level the playing field in recruiting. Butch's 1st round cred can balance off the bag men running around for SEC, OSU and FSU. His ability to identify assistants for staff who later get NFL NC jobs means a bunch too. I think Butch had 3 -- if you are an assistant somewhere, do you think you tell Butch to call back later or answer the phone "What's up Boss?" Butch means $$$$. $$$ to players in draft. $$$ to coaches in career. $$$ to THE U in tickets and sales. $$$$ to ACC in playoffs and NC and ratings for next TV contract.

BOT stripped itself of options by waiting to long. Not even Chud or Greg are viable now. Only Butch can save this recruiting year and stop the sinkhole the BOT caused.
Click to expand...

YEP

I'd add that we really need Golden gone NOW to salvage the 2016 class. If we wait to hire a coach in December or Jan, you can kiss the 2016 class good bye. combine that with the **** poor 2015 class, and you've got a complete rebuild on your hands
 
NVA CANE said:
I'm not gonna lie, the talent he racked up at UNC was phenomenal so we know he can load a roster with talent, but the record did not match the talent he had and that's my concern.
Click to expand...

his 3rd year in 2010 (think it was year 3 maybe 4) they were NC contenders until the NCAA suspended half the starters
 
With all the coaches out there, the obvious answer is no.

The Butch craze is amusing to me. Eye for talent, you bet. Game day coach, high average at best.
 
Advertisement
Bigtip said:
NVA CANE said:
I'm not gonna lie, the talent he racked up at UNC was phenomenal so we know he can load a roster with talent, but the record did not match the talent he had and that's my concern.
Click to expand...

his 3rd year in 2010 (think it was year 3 maybe 4) they were NC contenders until the NCAA suspended half the starters
Click to expand...

National Championship contenders? Huh, where did you get that idea from? ACC contenders maybe, but I don't ever remember hearing MNC mentioned.
 
SFbayCane said:
Some thoughts:

* Hiring Butch will negate any possible negative recruiting tactics that FSU, uf, ohio state, bama, UGA and every other school that has scooped up State of Miami athletes in recent years is currently using about UM's lack of desire to compete at the highest levels.
Click to expand...

Other coach's might not use lack of commitment for football as negative recruiting but every coach in America will use Butch's reputation against him. Telling parents of every recruit that he will not care about their education and if they don't make it the NFL they will little chance for success in life.
 
Bennubird said:
NVA I actually think Butch is a better game day coach then you're giving him credit for being. Was he great on game day? No, but Butch would be plenty good enough with the staff he would build and the talent that he will amass. In his final year with us - 2000 - we lost once. Any doubt we don't win two out of the next three national championships with him at the helm?

UMArcher and SFBAY have made the argument why Butch, and I concur with them, for the sake of argument I'm waiting to hear what candidates you think will be available that would be better than Butch? Honestly, do you have someone in mind?
Click to expand...
They aren't a sure thing but I like Herman and Fuente. Your argument that we can't rely on the BOT to actually identify a good coach is true which makes hiring Butch a safe hire.

Maybe I'm just being greedy and want the next saban, next Meyer, etc. I think Herman and Fuente may be those guys. I won't name chip cause I don't believe the university will pay that kind of money for a coach. I know my choices haven't proven much so my argument is weak against a Butch hire, I'm just looking for someone to take us to the next level and I have reservations on whether Butch can do that.

I don't doubt his ability to identify talent or to develop that talent or to run a program. The guy is phenomenal at those things. I just don't know that he would replicate what he did previously and I don't know that he would be able to amass enough talent to overcome whatever coaching obstacles may come with his hire.
 
NVA CANE said:
I think we need to ask ourselves that question before we continue calling for him. He's good, but I think there are some question marks and better options.

Would he he be able to replicate what he did in the 90s/00s?
How long would he take to turn things around and how long are people willing to wait?

I think there are a couple coaches that are the real deal that we should look at ahead of Butch. Sure he's done it before but his returning is no guarantee of success.

Theres a lot of nostalgia with Butch but I'm afraid it may not be so easily replicated as many of think.
Click to expand...

Would Butch be the best possible hire? No he wouldn't......and it's not even close. This is a great question and I'm glad you posed it.

People here think we're just gonna time warp back to the late 90's and build a dynasty. He's a bad game day coach. I was actually in the stadium in Washington where Rick "effing" Neuheisel outcoached him in 99'.

Look at the guys record as a head coach and you'll get your answer.
 
Last edited:
Big Sky Cane said:
NVA CANE said:
I think we need to ask ourselves that question before we continue calling for him. He's good, but I think there are some question marks and better options.

Would he he be able to replicate what he did in the 90s/00s?
How long would he take to turn things around and how long are people willing to wait?

I think there are a couple coaches that are the real deal that we should look at ahead of Butch. Sure he's done it before but his returning is no guarantee of success.

Theres a lot of nostalgia with Butch but I'm afraid it may not be so easily replicated as many of think.
Click to expand...

Would Butch be the best possible hire? No he wouldn't......and it's not even close. This is a great question and I'm glad you posed it.

People here think we're just gonna time warp back to the late 90's and build a dynasty. He's a bad game day coach. I was actually in the stadium in Washington where Rick "effing" Neuheisel outcoached him in 99'.

Look at the guys record as a head coach and you'll get your answer.
Click to expand...

Best possible? Maybe, maybe not.

So who's your perfect coach?

Give indicators he can be had for the same money,
he's already recruited a team that should have won 3 NC's in a row,
can stack his team three deep with NFL talent,
can evaluate talent just as well,
can recruit coaches as well,
can develop players as well - ready to make immediate impacts on the NFL,
has won 2 Superbowls as DC under two different coaches,
and has recruited and put as many players in the NFL in a single three year period.

Name that SOB.
 
Butch is a candidate where you know exactly what you're getting. Outstanding evaluator of talent, great recruiter, provides instant credibility with premier players from our own backyard, wants to return to Miami, would come at an affordable price, and had an impressive track record with hiring assistant coaches during his first stint at Miami (also hired Chuck Pagano and Everett Withers at DC at UNC). Team speed would be prioritized once again and we'd never see any more two-gapping defensively.

On the flip side, it can't be questioned that he's a traditional, conservative, by-the-book coach who has undeniable flaws on the sidelines that have to be overcome by having far superior talent. Rather than implementing an up-tempo offense that would be a match made in heaven for our recruiting base, we'd be staying behind the times with a maddeningly conservative approach. His most recent OC hire -- John Shoop, who was UNC's OC and QB coach throughout Butch's tenure at UNC -- was utterly atrocious.

UNC's total offense ranking in 2008 (Butch's second year) - 92nd
2009 - 108th
2010 - 51st

Butch isn't the perfect candidate some make him out to be with nostalgia-driven defenses of his shortcomings on the sidelines. The offense he'd bring after his stint with Shoop at UNC raises huge question marks. But he would substantially elevate this program's floor, its talent level, and overall team speed. I completely understand why some want him back so badly, but he doesn't come without obvious flaws.
 
Last edited:
HurricaneOmeezy said:
his eye for talent is second to none. but that isn't even why I think Butch is the best option. I think he realizes that he'll need to surround himself with a coaching staff that is COMPETENT, hungry, and aggressive. Butch also has a huge chip on his shoulder. He is hungry to finish what he started here.

Butch is the answer fellas. No one else.
Click to expand...

Part of the concern is that the OC he hired at UNC and stuck with for his entire tenure there (Shoop) was the complete opposite of all three of those traits. Shoop is one of the most conservative OCs on the face of the earth. He's on the verge of getting run out of town at Purdue of all places because of his continued incompetence and stubbornly conservative nature.

Check out what Purdue's SB Nation site had to say about Shoop after their blowout loss to Virginia Tech a couple weeks ago:

So yes, let's talk about the offense. Could offensive genius John Shoop have called a worse game? Your average playcalling session:

- Incomplete on first down
- Run Markell Jones or D.J. Knox into the heart of a ridiculously tough defense on second down.
- Incompletion by Austin Appleby on third down
- Punt.

It was blatantly obvious to everyone even before the game that you could not run into the teeth of this defensive line. It was only the strong point of a very good defense. In fact, what little success Purdue did have in running the ball came on the few plays it ran to the edge or involved misdirection. But what did Shoop do? "Hey! We got stuffed up the middle, but it will work next time!"
Click to expand...

As mentioned above, Butch and Shoop's offenses at UNC were complete disasters. Yes, it was UNC. But talent wasn't the issue and those total offense rankings are too abysmal to ignore. Butch hired some really good assistants a long time ago, but his most recent OC hire was a glaring misfire. For as much as fans have rightfully argued that our current defense is a match made in **** for this program, we can't afford to be behind the times and conservative offensively anymore either.
 
Advertisement
Among UMFarm's list, I might add a Butch hire would signify to fsu,uf,and ucf we are wanting to compete again...in state. We've badly slipped behind those three in facilities and (for the most part), a desire to win. We still get many FL recruits because 'we are Miami.' But those days are slipping away quickly.
 
NVA CANE said:
I think we need to ask ourselves that question before we continue calling for him. He's good, but I think there are some question marks and better options.

Would he he be able to replicate what he did in the 90s/00s?
How long would he take to turn things around and how long are people willing to wait?

I think there are a couple coaches that are the real deal that we should look at ahead of Butch. Sure he's done it before but his returning is no guarantee of success.

Theres a lot of nostalgia with Butch but I'm afraid it may not be so easily replicated as many of think.
Click to expand...


This idiot would rather hire Justin Fuente than Butch friggin Davis.

What a total waste of oxygen. This guy is flat retarded
 
drifters1234 said:
Given UM's self-imposed financial constraints, absolutely.
Click to expand...

Here we go with the we could get him in the cheap stuff.

Nobody knows what it would take to hire him anywhere, let alone here. In the fantasy land of fans, they just assume he'd come here for pennies on the dollar.

What makes anyone think he would want to get out of his current gig that carries a far lighter and less time consuming workload? He makes north of one million a year, all those guys and girls do.

If he can be had on the cheap, that leads me to question number two. Why aren't all the other programs who've looked and will be looking for coaches calling?
 
Back
Top