Wisconsin officially sues Miami over Xavier Lucas

They are trying to save face but it can backfire on them. I’d rather be representing Miami if I had a choice.

Even in the worse case scenario, Miami could just pay like a buyout and be done with it. I’m sure they will counter sue.

Interesting they don’t name Lucas in the suit.
Like I said we shouldn’t just counter sue we should file a report to the NCAA about wisconsins infraction of ADMITTING they had a contract signed with a player that bonded him to their institution in pay for play. And we should also demand they impose penalties on them for not adhering to NCAA rules regarding pay regarding portal processing. If they want to play this game I have no problem being a little ***** right back. It’s clear Wisconsin is more in the wrong with the entire process, so we should push the NCAA to take enforcement action against them
 
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The court held the 11th Amendment doesn’t apply when the state is a plaintiff. The court determined that it didn’t have jurisdiction because the defendant did not establish diversity. It didn’t explain why very well—presumably the insurance company was also an Idaho citizen. But I don’t think that case would preclude removal in this situation where there is diversity of citizenship.
They did- but the diversity statute requires a suit between citizens of different states, and the Univ is not a citizen, thus there cannot be subject matter jurisdiction. Glad we talked this out, this one was bugging me because I knew it was something unusual but also on the fringe of my memory.
I did review the WI procedural statute, it isn't a lot different than FRCP 12, so this issue likely interests only a few of us here. Beers on me next time we debate something like this.
 
Im curious to understand the outcome if Wisconsin "wins" this lawsuit. what are they hoping to gain/accomplish? Last I checked the NCAA is completely neutered and not suspended schools from bowl games or reducing scholarships
 
I can’t imagine we’ll get a fair hearing in Wisconsin against Wisconsin. Can it be removed to a federal court?
I'm from green Bay and I hate whisky. And my father played for them. Lol you'd be surprised how many are like me. Now I moved while I was still a young man and I've been here 30 years. My godfather played for Miami so my early aligance was to the canes lol. Never saw my pops more ****ed when that went down. Lots of weird peeps. More like Polk county sans Madison and Milwaukee
 
If you are talking about removal to federal court, I think I'm right- you cannot remove a case to federal court where the State (or state entity) is the Plaintiff because of the Eleventh Amendment. is absolute on this issue.


Clearly you have not read the text of the Eleventh Amendment.

Furthermore, if there is ANY impediment to federal court removal, it is under completely different principles.
 
Clearly you have not read the text of the Eleventh Amendment.

Furthermore, if there is ANY impediment to federal court removal, it is under completely different principles.
You would be very wrong if you thought the first sentence you wrote is true.
But the impediment is, as was stated above, subject matter jurisdiction, as there is no diversity without citizens of different state on each side, and there is no obvious federal question presented. So, we were both wrong on our initial assessment of the issue, and both right on a couple of procedural points. Good debate, amigo.
 
The funny thing is, Wisconsin most likely tampered harder for Dyoni Hill than Miami ever had to for Xavier Lucas

Sorry *** mother****ers, gonna laugh my *** off when Giannis gets out of that limpdick ****** state and they have nothing left worth living for in the world of sports
 
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Lmao what a bunch whiny b*tches. They must feel like they needed to do this after they got slapped with recruiting violations haha
 

Lucas requested admission to the transfer portal, this is provided for in the NCAA bylaws for NIL and the University of Wisconsin has no latitude in the process. The athlete makes the request and school complies. Unfortunately, Wisconsin chose not to comply, after Lucas received legal advice from his attorney, he transferred to Miami. Wisconsin violated the rights of Lucas under the law. They will look like fools when the process is completed. Sorry for Lucas and UM that they have to deal with a school that chose not to comply with the rules enforce at the time entering the portal.
 
They are trying to save face but it can backfire on them. I’d rather be representing Miami if I had a choice.

Even in the worse case scenario, Miami could just pay like a buyout and be done with it. I’m sure they will counter sue.

Interesting they don’t name Lucas in the suit.
Yes, especially since they specifically allege in the complaint that Lucas “breached his contract.” But as I said above, I think they just know they are no damages to be gained from suing him.
 
Like I said we shouldn’t just counter sue we should file a report to the NCAA about wisconsins infraction of ADMITTING they had a contract signed with a player that bonded him to their institution in pay for play. And we should also demand they impose penalties on them for not adhering to NCAA rules regarding pay regarding portal processing. If they want to play this game I have no problem being a little ***** right back. It’s clear Wisconsin is more in the wrong with the entire process, so we should push the NCAA to take enforcement action against them
That would be a cause for Lucas to sue him for, not UM. I’m not really sure we should make a counterclaim. They haven’t done anything to us but trash us on social media.
 
They are going to rely on "he was never in the Portal". Because Wisconsin violated NCAA rules and never entered his name in the Portal.
But never in the portal is purely an NCAA rule whereas theirs entire argument basically hinges on NCAA rules not mattering otherwise they’d be blatantly in the wrong for even having him sign a contract that brakes NCAA regulations in the first place. So how do those two things go together, which is also why they are suing Miami and not Lucas. Had he entered the portal what exact reason would Wisconsin have to not bring this exact same lawsuit? Honestly have no idea but it seems to me if the entire premise of the lawsuit is tampering because we met prior to portal, well the portal isn’t a real law either lol… portal is actually less relevant than NCAA rules regarding pay tbh….
 
Close, but i think diversity requires citizens of different states and a "state" is not a citizen for purposes of DJ. The 11th prevents states from being defendants in federal court in cases brought by citizens of different states or countries -- doesn't apply when a state is a plaintiff.


This is a much more accurate statement than the bull**** that @Gennaker Cane vomited out.

However, there are some interesting elements to discuss.

FIRST, is that it is NOT JUST "the University of Wisconsin" that is the plaintiff. It is ALSO their collective that is a named plaintiff. So you have a very interesting (and possibly novel) question of whether an entity that is NOT an arm of the state (the Collective) can gin its way into "sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status" by joining with a state institution as joint plaintiffs in a lawsuit. Similarly, one could argue that "the state" (University of Wisconsin) cannot extend ITS sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status to another non-state entity by filing as a joint plaintiff.

SECOND, you can also use the role of the COLLECTIVE to show that the University of Wisconsin is NOT acting as "an arm of the state" in this situation at all, but they are entering into a joint venture of sorts which should NOT enjoy the benefit of "sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status". The US Constitution, the Eleventh Amendment, and the various rules on "citizenship-status" were not intended to apply to situations where a state university joins with another entity in a venture that goes beyond "arm of the state" types of activities.

Until seeing some of the details of the allegations, it is also hard to know how much of the "contracts" were entered into by the Collective vs. the University of Wisconsin. Having spoken with a few Wisconsin attorneys on the Wisconsin boards back in December-January, I know some things about how this deal was conceptualized and presented that go beyond "newspaper article" summaries.

Finally, we can look to the overall "agreement" (I won't even use the word "contract" here) to try to assess what in the **** Wisconsin thinks they can pursue, no matter the venue.

From all indications, it would appear that Xavier Lucas "signed" a document on December 12th and then effectively repudiated it on December 19th when he texted his intention to enter the transfer Portal.

So what happened in this MAGICAL 7-day period when Wisconsin suffered GRIEVOUS HARM? Yeah, that's a funny one.

We all know that the Big 10 developed a common template agreement to try to transition from "old NIL" to "future not-yet-in-existence revenue sharing". Fine. And from statements made by Darren Heitner and others, hundreds of Big 10 athletes were presented templates, many of which their agents/attorneys red-lined before signing. OK.

But in the case of Xavier Lucas, a teenager over a thousand miles from his home, he was presented the template agreement from Wisconsin and pressured to sign it during final exams, without meeting with his family, without meeting with any legal or contractual representatives. And somehow, without alleging ANYTHING that Wisconsin did between December 12th and December 19th, they would have us believe that they suffered massive pecuniary and "reputational" damages from ONE player submitting paperwork to enter the Portal.

How?

---Did Wisconsin print thousands of Xavier Lucas football jerseys during that one week period that they are now forced to sell at 90% discount?
---Did Wisconsin recruit/sign any HS or Portal players or FAIL TO recruit/sign any HS or Portal players based on their one-week detrimental reliance on Xavier Lucas's apparent promise to return to Wisconsin?
---Did Wisconsin suddenly "lose" any roster players or potential recruits because of the "reputational harm" created by ONE player entering the transfer Portal during a period when he was ALLOWED to enter the transfer portal?

What Wisconsin would have us believe is that Xavier Lucas absolutely wanted to remain at Wisconsin BUT FOR the tampering and devious behavior of the Evil Miami Minions. Wisconsin wants you to ignore geography (Lucas is from SoFla), family issues (sick relative), friends (guys he once played with who are on the Miami roster), and any possibility that a week-later realization that Wisconsin had taken advantage of Xavier Lucas's young age and minimal legal knowledge to convince him to sign a grossly one-sided contract. Wisconsin wants you to believe that a teenager being asked to sign a contract CONTINGENT on a major court case that had not yet been decided was some sort of well-reasoned adult decision to enter into a contract, a contract that should be enforced by a court regardless of the massive power/financial disparity between the parties, and without Xavier Lucas being offered the advice to consult with his attorney and/or a tax professional.

Even worse, it is not even apparent that the agreement forms an enforceable contract whatsoever. In the first place, it was ALWAYS contingent upon a future SPECULATIVE event that had not even happened (the House settlement). Second, based on comments from various parties that no money was paid during the magical week of December 12th to December 19th, it does not appear that any CONSIDERATION was paid to Xavier Lucas that would represent the bare minimum necessity for Wisconsion to have entered into a contract. Finally, without seeing the actual "contract" (or "contracts") that would bind the DIFFERENT plaintiffs (the University AND the Collective), it is impossible to tell what was intended and whether the parties were actually bound in agreement, or if instead, it was an agreement to agree upon something in the future when some other event happened that was not certain to happen.

Finally, we look at the damages. And for the life of me, I cannot fathom how a magical ONE WEEK PERIOD caused Wisconsin ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER. Sure, it sucks to lose a talented player. I get it. And it definitely sucks to lose him to his hometown school where he will be surrounded by friends or family, and where Wisconsin loses the ability to keep him isolated from his world by living in Madison. But Wisconsin never paid Xavier Lucas a dime under the contract(s) they claim he knowingly entered into. We know **** well that they didn't give him a cent of "revenue-sharing" that was unapproved and hasn't even come into being yet, 7 months later. So until Wisconsin tells us what was "done" in one week that cannot be "undone" without the payment of pecuniary damages, we can safely assume that number is zero-point-zero.

At the end of the day, all Wisconsin has is a signature. And they want us all to believe that the signature was fairly given for adequate consideration, when we all know that simply didn't happen. Wisconsin wants us to believe that a teenager in the middle of final exams INTENDED to be bound by a future lawsuit settlement that he didn't understand at all. And that his signature, outside of the consultation of his family and advisors, should be enforced as if it was an ordinary average business contract entered into by two sophisticated and well-advised business entities.

It's crap. All Wisconsin has to offer is a "conflicting" statement made by a family member of Xavier's, and not Xavier himself. Sure, Wisconsin wants everyone to honor Xavier's signature when his family was cut out of the discussion, but then put all the weight on the words of a single family member when its apparent "conflicting nature" suits Wisconsin's needs.

It's all bull****. It's gonna take a bit of time for a logical and rational judge to sort through the irrelevant bits, but this should go in Miami's favor relatively easily.

Call Jaret Davis and get Greenberg Traurig on retainer, stat.
 
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But never in the portal is purely an NCAA rule whereas theirs entire argument basically hinges on NCAA rules not mattering otherwise they’d be blatantly in the wrong for even having him sign a contract that brakes NCAA regulations in the first place. So how do those two things go together, which is also why they are suing Miami and not Lucas. Had he entered the portal what exact reason would Wisconsin have to not bring this exact same lawsuit? Honestly have no idea but it seems to me if the entire premise of the lawsuit is tampering because we met prior to portal, well the portal isn’t a real law either lol… portal is actually less relevant than NCAA rules regarding pay tbh….
The lawsuit isn’t tampering prior to portal - forget all the NCAA stuff. All that is irrelevant. The lawsuit isn’t tampering prior tortious interference of a contract. They are saying we did things that caused him to breach his NIL contract with them.
 
That would be a cause for Lucas to sue him for, not UM. I’m not really sure we should make a counterclaim. They haven’t done anything to us but trash us on social media.
They haven’t done anything but trash us on social media… well and literally sue us today lol. Worth worth a counter of literally sending their suit to the ncaa with an attached not saying they just admitted to breaking NCAA rules, and still haven’t been punished for failing to enter him into the portal in first place
 
This is a much more accurate statement than the bull**** that @Gennaker Cane vomited out.

However, there are some interesting elements to discuss.

FIRST, is that it is NOT JUST "the University of Wisconsin" that is the plaintiff. It is ALSO their collective that is a named plaintiff. So you have a very interesting (and possibly novel) question of whether an entity that is NOT an arm of the state (the Collective) can gin its way into "sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status" by joining with a state institution as joint plaintiffs in a lawsuit. Similarly, one could argue that "the state" (University of Wisconsin) cannot extend ITS sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status to another non-state entity by filing as a joint plaintiff.

SECOND, you can also use the role of the COLLECTIVE to show that the University of Wisconsin is NOT acting as "an arm of the state" in this situation at all, but they are entering into a joint venture of sorts which should NOT enjoy the benefit of "sovereign-immunity/non-citizen-status". The US Constitution, the Eleventh Amendment, and the various rules on "citizenship-status" were not intended to apply to situations where a state university joins with another entity in a venture that goes beyond "arm of the state" types of activities.

Until seeing some of the details of the allegations, it is also hard to know how much of the "contracts" were entered into by the Collective vs. the University of Wisconsin. Having spoken with a few Wisconsin attorneys on the Wisconsin boards back in December-January, I know some things about how this deal was conceptualized and presented that go beyond "newspaper article" summaries.

Finally, we can look to the overall "agreement" (I won't even use the word "contract" here) to try to assess what in the **** Wisconsin thinks they can pursue, no matter the venue.

From all indications, it would appear that Xavier Lucas "signed" a document on December 12th and then effectively repudiated it on December 19th when he texted his intention to enter the transfer Portal.

So what happened in this MAGICAL 7-day period when Wisconsin suffered GRIEVOUS HARM? Yeah, that's a funny one.

We all know that the Big 10 developed a common template agreement to try to transition from "old NIL" to "future not-yet-in-existence revenue sharing". Fine. And from statements made by Darren Heitner and others, hundreds of Big 10 athletes were presented templates, many of which their agents/attorneys red-lined before signing. OK.

But in the case of Xavier Lucas, a teenager over a thousand miles from his home, he was presented the template agreement from Wisconsin and pressured to sign it during final exams, without meeting with his family, without meeting with any legal or contractual representatives. And somehow, without alleging ANYTHING that Wisconsin did between December 12th and December 19th, they would have us believe that they suffered massive pecuniary and "reputational" damages from ONE player submitting paperwork to enter the Portal.

How?

---Did Wisconsin print thousands of Xavier Lucas football jerseys during that one week period that they are now forced to sell at 90% discount?
---Did Wisconsin recruit/sign any HS or Portal players or FAIL TO recruit/sign any HS or Portal players based on their one-week detrimental reliance on Xavier Lucas's apparent promise to return to Wisconsin?
---Did Wisconsin suddenly "lose" any roster players or potential recruits because of the "reputational harm" created by ONE player entering the transfer Portal during a period when he was ALLOWED to enter the transfer portal?

What Wisconsin would have us believe is that Xavier Lucas absolutely wanted to remain at Wisconsin BUT FOR the tampering and devious behavior of the Evil Miami Minions. Wisconsin wants you to ignore geography (Lucas is from SoFla), family issues (sick relative), friends (guys he once played with who are on the Miami roster), and any possibility that a week-later realization that Wisconsin had taken advantage of Xavier Lucas's young age and minimal legal knowledge to convince him to sign a grossly one-sided contract. Wisconsin wants you to believe that a teenager being asked to sign a contract CONTINGENT on a major court case that had not yet been decided was some sort of well-reasoned adult decision to enter into a contract, a contract that should be enforced by a court regardless of the massive power/financial disparity between the parties, and without Xavier Lucas being offered the advice to consult with his attorney and/or a tax professional.

Even worse, it is not even apparent that the agreement forms an enforceable contract whatsoever. In the first place, it was ALWAYS contingent upon a future SPECULATIVE event that had not even happened (the House settlement). Second, based on comments from various parties that no money was paid during the magical week of December 12th to December 19th, it does not appear that any CONSIDERATION was paid to Xavier Lucas that would represent the bare minimum necessity for Wisconsion to have entered into a contract. Finally, without seeing the actual "contract" (or "contracts") that would bind the DIFFERENT plaintiffs (the University AND the Collective), it is impossible to tell what was intended and whether the parties were actually bound in agreement, or if instead, it was an agreement to agree upon something in the future when some other event happened that was not certain to happen.

Finally, we look at the damages. And for the life of me, I cannot fathom how a magical ONE WEEK PERIOD caused Wisconsin ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER. Sure, it sucks to lose a talented player. I get it. And it definitely sucks to lose him to his hometown school where he will be surrounded by friends or family, and where Wisconsin loses the ability to keep him isolated from his world by living in Madison. But Wisconsin never paid Xavier Lucas a dime under the contract(s) they claim he knowingly entered into. We know **** well that they didn't give him a cent of "revenue-sharing" that was unapproved and hasn't even come into being yet, 7 months later. So until Wisconsin tells us what was "done" in one week that cannot be "undone" without the payment of pecuniary damages, we can safely assume that number is zero-point-zero.

At the end of the day, all Wisconsin has is a signature. And they want us all to believe that the signature was fairly given for adequate consideration, when we all know that simply didn't happen. Wisconsin wants us to believe that a teenager in the middle of final exams INTENDED to be bound by a future lawsuit settlement that he didn't understand at all. And that his signature, outside of the consultation of his family and advisors, should be enforced as if it was an ordinary average business contract entered into by two sophisticated and well-advised business entities.

It's crap. All Wisconsin has to offer is a "conflicting" statement made by a family member of Xavier's, and not Xavier himself. Sure, Wisconsin wants everyone to honor Xavier's signature when his family was cut out of the discussion, but then put all the weight on the words of a single family member when its apparent "conflicting nature" suits Wisconsin's needs.

It's all bull****. It's gonna take a bit of time for a logical and rational judge to sort through the irrelevant bits, but this should go in Miami's favor relatively easily.

Call Jaret Davis and get Greenberg Traurig on retainer, stat.
Have you seen the complaint? I was looking for it but couldn’t find a link yet. I want to read it.
 
The lawsuit isn’t tampering prior to portal - forget all the NCAA stuff. All that is irrelevant. The lawsuit isn’t tampering prior tortious interference of a contract. They are saying we did things that caused him to breach his NIL contract with them.
Right but you see how if his name was in portal and we followed all rules then they’d still be suing us for the same thing which is the problem. By that standard literally every single school that added a portal player should get sued tomorrow
 
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