Wide nine defense

Torocane

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Question for all the more defensive knowledgeable posters.
What is the difference between a standard 4/3 and a wide nine defense?
The Dolphins new DC is installing a wide nine defense and I have to admit I've never heard of that defenSE before.
 
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Think of those Dan Quinn Seahawks defenses. Speed rushers like Chris Clemons, for example, line up out wide from the line of scrimmage outside of the offensive tackle or even the tight end. More running lanes in the inside for the offense but that's why you need good linebackers in that scheme too - it's not all about the pass rush.
 
Definitely the Seahawks defense is a good team to look at. Base 4-3 but lining up wide is the thing.


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Think of those Dan Quinn Seahawks defenses. Speed rushers like Chris Clemons, for example, line up out wide from the line of scrimmage outside of the offensive tackle or even the tight end. More running lanes in the inside for the offense but that's why you need good linebackers in that scheme too - it's not all about the pass rush.

or think of Jim Schwartz in Tennessee, Detroit and Buffalo, or Jim Johnson (RIP) in Philly. Places a huge premium on athleticism, which is why guys like Jason Babin could put up cartoon stats.
 
Question for all the more defensive knowledgeable posters.
What is the difference between a standard 4/3 and a wide nine defense?
The Dolphins new DC is installing a wide nine defense and I have to admit I've never heard of that defenSE before.

It's mostly a misconception. It's not a style of defense as much as it is an alignment thing. Basically, think of a DE WAY THE EFF outside (9tech). D-Coordinators have been using this stuff for decades. We've had guys here, like Jerome Mcdougle, who got entirely too wide and went way upfield. It's something that can be done in spots because it makes the DEs get clearer lanes to the QB. At the same time, like with Mcdougle, it creates massive running lanes inside.

If there's a new "defense" specifically around this - as an entire scheme - it'd be killed with quick hitting plays between the wide 9 DE and the DT. Ironically, these enormous lanes caused by too much spacing between gaps is what sometimes concerns me about our new defense.
 
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Risky defense that puts a lot of pressure on the Dline.

I know Castillo was running it in philly and Jason Babin ate in that defense.

There aren't too many Dco's that can coach a strong unit with a wide 9 front.

The DE's are isolated to create an island like mentioned above.
But the Tackles face immense pressure in gap support.

You have to have very scheme specific talent for that front.
 
Question for all the more defensive knowledgeable posters.
What is the difference between a standard 4/3 and a wide nine defense?
The Dolphins new DC is installing a wide nine defense and I have to admit I've never heard of that defenSE before.

It's mostly a misconception. It's not a style of defense as much as it is an alignment thing. Basically, think of a DE WAY THE EFF outside (9tech). D-Coordinators have been using this stuff for decades. We've had guys here, like Jerome Mcdougle, who got entirely too wide and went way upfield. It's something that can be done in spots because it makes the DEs get clearer lanes to the QB. At the same time, like with Mcdougle, it creates massive running lanes inside.

If there's a new "defense" specifically around this - as an entire scheme - it'd be killed with quick hitting plays between the wide 9 DE and the DT. Ironically, these enormous lanes caused by too much spacing between gaps is what sometimes concerns me about our new defense.

Well, that's a better way to put it. lol
 
Jim Johnson was more of a blitz guy, dude was blitzing off the bus. I saw him blitz three players one time . Which means there's four guys covering five legal receivers. The fullback was wide open but Romo didn't never see him. Trotter was on dat ***. If bringing six is a casino blitz then what is seven ? It's insanity.

I can't remember the exact stat but one season he blitzed 15-20 percent more than the number two team. Which means bringing five or more rushers. He loved big middle Lb's that would shoot the A gap and implode either the ol, rb or qb. The Mike was a glorified DT. Hence why Trotter struggled when he left philly.

He was a river boat gambler on steroids, absolutely crazy. Loved his years in philly.
 
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Jim Johnson was more of a blitz guy, dude was blitzing off the bus. I saw him blitz three players one time . Which means there's four guys covering five legal receivers. The fullback was wide open but Romo didn't never see him. Trotter was on dat ***.

I remember a stat one time that was mind boggling , the team with the second most blitzes ( five or more coming) was in the thirty percent range. Jim was pushing the fifty percent range. Almost twenty percent more blitzes. Nuts.

He was a river boat gambler on steroids, absolutely crazy. Loved his years in philly.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a 7 man blitz this year (if the RB stays in to block).
 
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Thanks for the response.
It's the first time this year I've paid any attention to the Dolphins. Anyway in the pre game show they were talking about the new wide nine defense they are installing this year.
I can see how it would funnel everything inside but you better have the inside players to handle it because it seem like the offense would have the leverage inside.
 
DEs line up way outside and a heavy premium is placed on your DTs and LBs. Which is why Albert Haynesworth was arguably the best player in the league from 07-08. Could hurt the run D big time if you don't have a dominant DT.
 
Jim Johnson was more of a blitz guy, dude was blitzing off the bus. I saw him blitz three players one time . Which means there's four guys covering five legal receivers. The fullback was wide open but Romo didn't never see him. Trotter was on dat ***.

I remember a stat one time that was mind boggling , the team with the second most blitzes ( five or more coming) was in the thirty percent range. Jim was pushing the fifty percent range. Almost twenty percent more blitzes. Nuts.

He was a river boat gambler on steroids, absolutely crazy. Loved his years in philly.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a 7 man blitz this year (if the RB stays in to block).

I edited because I wasn't sure the exact numbers , but Philly brought 5 or more like 20 percent more than second place team.
 
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The season is getting close. I can't wait to see the Canes live. Added bonus, Lu is back posting, nice to have real ball talk. No slight Macho, I enjoy your input also. Lu tends to stay above the fray. Looking forward to Lu's posts during the year, especially with a huge scheme change.

Go Canes!
 
The season is getting close. I can't wait to see the Canes live. Added bonus, Lu is back posting, nice to have real ball talk. No slight Macho, I enjoy your input also. Lu tends to stay above the fray. Looking forward to Lu's posts during the year, especially with a huge scheme change.

Go Canes!

Above the fray? Hey, f* you, man! Meet me in the Orange lot, or something.
 
The season is getting close. I can't wait to see the Canes live. Added bonus, Lu is back posting, nice to have real ball talk. No slight Macho, I enjoy your input also. Lu tends to stay above the fray. Looking forward to Lu's posts during the year, especially with a huge scheme change.

Go Canes!

Above the fray? Hey, f* you, man! Meet me in the Orange lot, or something.

Hahaha. Switchblade life ****! Looking forward to your post game assessments.

Go Canes!
 
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It probably just needs really strong DTs. The DEs can peel back against the run if they're really quick. It create unusual angles generally. The way to attack it is runs up the middle and quick passes.

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apparently the buzzword around the NFL for sounding like you know what you’re talking about is the phrase “wide nine.” This refers to a technique the Philadelphia Eagles have used this season, where the defensive end in a four down lineman front slides a few inches or a foot or so to the outside and sometimes will tilt towards the quarterback. It is, in short, the defensive end getting in pure position to rush the passer. It’s called a “wide nine” because the technique, i.e. the specific alignment, of defensive linemen is categorized by a numerical system often credited to Bear Bryant (and also to Bum Phillips). The “nine” technique is the one outside the tight-end.

Greg Cosell of NFL films gives a decent version of the overly glowing if not mystical analysis of the technique below. (Of course the offense has only one tight-end, so the right defensive end isn’t really even playing a nine technique at all, but such details must bow before the intrinsic coolness of calling something “THE WIDE NINE.”)

Obviously there’s no magic to this: it’s just telling your defensive ends to pin their ears back and to rush on passing downs. Indeed, moving those defensive ends out that wide opens up all manner of attendant issues, issues that the Eagles opponent’s have routinely exploited this year. Specifically, by aligning the defensive end so wide the end has farther to go to get to the quarterback and, in the clip above, the left defensive end is so focused on rushing the passer he doesn’t bother getting a jam or chip on the tight-end. Moreover, this technique (it’s a technique if anything, there is no such thing as the “wide nine defense”), obviously opens up all kinds of issues in the run game: the defensive end aligns so wide the interior offensive linemen can quickly get up to the second level defenders like the linebackers, and the defensive ends are easy marks for traps, draws and counter plays as they sprint upfield.



Further, it’s not going to happen in the pros, but if anyone tried this at the lower levels you’d see coaches immediately going to plays that option off of this single minded defender, be it the veer, the speed option, the shovel option, or even the inverted veer. All that “track stance” stuff wouldn’t do him much good, and his wide alignment would mean the other blockers would be up on the rest of the defense. (Of course, to be fair, at the lower levels it’s likely that the “wide nine” defensive end would be a total DNA freak of nature than it is in the NFL.)

Finally, I can’t believe that this is as new as people are making it out to be. I remember being at a Florida State practice in the 1990s and seeing Mickey Andrews telling his guys to use a technique on passing downs that looked a lot like the “wide nine.” Except he didn’t call it the “wide nine” or anything else fancy. He simply told his guys to take as much room as they needed and to “kick ***.”
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The so-called ?wide nine? | Smart Football
 
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