Why did Kehoe suck so much when he returned

[timujian]

Art Kehoe did not suck. Every OL he coached got better until last year. He did a tremendous job with Feliciano and Wheeler who came in looking like they didn't belong in division 1 football. He did a great job with Henderson who played like crap as a true Freshman and became an outstanding pass blocker, went to the Bills as a seventh round draft choice and started over their first round draft choice from Alabama, Kouandjio. He had several OLs drafted. Last year he had to work with probably the least experienced OL in Miami history. One player, Isidora, had barely a season's worth of snaps. The rest of the roster had no snaps at all or less than a third of a seasons worth of snaps. OL is a unit where playing experience is critical both on an individual level and as a group. With the exception of Gaul, every OL played better in the second half of the season than the first. I have kept track of every play of every OL in every game against a FBS opponent for the last 8 years. Art Kehoe has never come close to sucking.

Kehoe underachieved here. Actually Henderson regressed under Kehoe. Stoutland had Henderson beasting as a true freshman. I don't know where you got your assessment. I still remember Henderson dominating Daquan Bowers (best DE in college during the 2010 season) as a true freshman. Kehoe also wasted the talents of Washington an all conference performer by playing him at tackle. He initially did the same with Feliciano who is naturally a guard. He did not make anyone better...

Henderson was terrible as a true Freshaman. He had the second worst season as a runblocker in the last 8 years behind only Bunche (2012). And he had the third worst season in the past 8 years as a pass blocker behind Rutledge (2008) and Pipho (2009).

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Where did you get those stats? In 2010 Henderson showed much promise. Just go back and watch Clemson 2010. Dude wasn't terrible. Kehoe underachieved here. He didn't make any of those players better...

 

[TheMatador]

Last time I'll bring this up because apparently the relevance of this is not fully understood... As an assistant coach or position coach more accurately there's jobs are to coach to the system the head coach wants in place. Your own techniques are irrelevant because you are no longer allowed to use them. (IE)coach swase made a career & was largely respected throughout college football because he taught & trained athletes up using fast twitch methods... however once golden came here he kept him on staff & told him no more speed,or fast twitch. I want these kids bulked up. It became his job to abandon his methods & employ everything else to bulk them up. We know the end result. In arts case it was the same ****. He made a career of having aggressive well disciplined lines that attacked the point. **** boy got here & said I want them to zone block... he knew **** about coaching to zone block. A conversation I recently had with b-mac explained all of our real concerns. Arthe went from just being him & not giving a **** to trying to hard to avoid the issue & just be buddy buddy to keep his job. The old art held people coaches included accountable at all times.

Who's BMac?

 

[Mario Hurricanes]

Kehoe sucked when he came back because the whole program from Shalala down had a losing mentality. There were excuses already built in to throw out if something went wrong, like not getting recruits because of "the cloud". And these excuses were aloud to cover up mediocrity and failure. But it was all of what people have posted...lazy recruiting, an insane strength program, bad coaching, and a predictable O.

 

[MedleyCane]

He wasnt that good to begin with.
He's not that good of a developer of talent...and his recruiting evals arent all that either.

It wasn't never lost on me that Jimmy Johnson, Erickson, Chud, Pagano or Butch never took Kehoe when they moved
on.
I think that says alot right there, especially since those coaches moved on to programs and/or NFL franchises
which would have paid him substantially more.
He should have never been rehired as UM OL coach.
I got the impression from listening to Golden at the time that he was highly recommended to him.
I wonder if this was Joaquin, Don Bailey Jr,etc crew who leaned on Golden.
Nonetheless, he's a true Cane.
At other schools, these type of former player/alums are gracefully moved on to office gig, fundraising
or even radio/tv duties.
I wished the school would find something for him.
Just keep him away from OL coaching duties.

This post works in the other direction as well. It's telling that he got through all of those coaches and championships and not one fired him until Coker sank the ship.

Understand what you're saying but.....Jimmy and Erickson probably kept him because those 2 head coaches were outsiders and
they wanted to retain someone, or some coaches, with existing ties to the program.
Also, during that era, programs were allowed to have bigger coaching staffs, which allowed Kehoe to be retained as an
Assistant OL coach behind Tony Wise and Greg Smith.
I suppose Butch and Coker could have brought in someone else instead of keeping him as the full-time OL coach.
Perhaps neither of those coaches had enough budget to bring in someone else?
Not sure.
When it comes to coaches, I tend to go with what the (coaching) market says about you.
Young quality Head and assistant coaches don't last long at UM.

You saying the fact no other coaches brought him with them is telling of his ability is just stupid. Who's to say he wasn't offered those opportunities but turned them down to stay at Miami? The guy bleeds orange and green, and not everyone is willing to do things for money. The guy is a Cane, and has been a coach here for 20 something years, maybe to him staying here in the great city of Miami is all he's wanted. It's not that crazy, just listen to schnelly when he says his biggest regret is leaving Miami to move into the "better" job in the pro football league.

So where is Art working these days?
Like I said, I respect him because he is a Cane and always a good ambassador of his school, but he was not a very good OL coach, and the coaching market has confirmed this on several occasions.....it is really not that hard to understand.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

He wasnt that good to begin with.
He's not that good of a developer of talent...and his recruiting evals arent all that either.

This and /thread. LOL at the excuses still being made for Kehoe. Just Google "Ereck Flowers poor technique" and that will tell you everything you need to know about Kehoe's ability to coach up an OL.

 

[Marcelo2988]

Why do you post so much boss??

 

[ProjectMKUltra5]

I always felt like the lines have been alright at pass protection under Kehoe, but the run blocking has been downright atrocious at times and inconsistent at best. There was never a mean streak, it's like they were just going through the motions, which actually makes sense because that's likely what Kehoe is doing at this stage in his career. Just going through the motions.

 

[Calinative]

It wasn't never lost on me that Jimmy Johnson, Erickson, Chud, Pagano or Butch never took Kehoe when they moved
on.
I think that says alot right there, especially since those coaches moved on to programs and/or NFL franchises
which would have paid him substantially more.
He should have never been rehired as UM OL coach.
I got the impression from listening to Golden at the time that he was highly recommended to him.
I wonder if this was Joaquin, Don Bailey Jr,etc crew who leaned on Golden.
Nonetheless, he's a true Cane.
At other schools, these type of former player/alums are gracefully moved on to office gig, fundraising
or even radio/tv duties.
I wished the school would find something for him.
Just keep him away from OL coaching duties.

This post works in the other direction as well. It's telling that he got through all of those coaches and championships and not one fired him until Coker sank the ship.

Understand what you're saying but.....Jimmy and Erickson probably kept him because those 2 head coaches were outsiders and
they wanted to retain someone, or some coaches, with existing ties to the program.
Also, during that era, programs were allowed to have bigger coaching staffs, which allowed Kehoe to be retained as an
Assistant OL coach behind Tony Wise and Greg Smith.
I suppose Butch and Coker could have brought in someone else instead of keeping him as the full-time OL coach.
Perhaps neither of those coaches had enough budget to bring in someone else?
Not sure.
When it comes to coaches, I tend to go with what the (coaching) market says about you.
Young quality Head and assistant coaches don't last long at UM.

You saying the fact no other coaches brought him with them is telling of his ability is just stupid. Who's to say he wasn't offered those opportunities but turned them down to stay at Miami? The guy bleeds orange and green, and not everyone is willing to do things for money. The guy is a Cane, and has been a coach here for 20 something years, maybe to him staying here in the great city of Miami is all he's wanted. It's not that crazy, just listen to schnelly when he says his biggest regret is leaving Miami to move into the "better" job in the pro football league.

So where is Art working these days?
Like I said, I respect him because he is a Cane and always a good ambassador of his school, but he was not a very good OL coach, and the coaching market has confirmed this on several occasions.....it is really not that hard to understand.

Regardless, your reasoning why he was a bad coach was terrible. Just because he didn't follow former head coaches to the league or wherever doesn't mean he's not a good coach.
And now he isn't coaching anymore, but how do you know if he even wants to? Once again, you don't know if he has any offers, and just wants to retire. The fact is you don't know what job offers he does or does not have. You are completely guessing. Maybe he only wants to coach if it's at Miami, otherwise he'd rather help out at a local HS because he likes helping young kids make it to college.

If you want to say he isn't a good coach at least use valid arguments dude.

 

[Brooklyndee]

Last time I'll bring this up because apparently the relevance of this is not fully understood... As an assistant coach or position coach more accurately there's jobs are to coach to the system the head coach wants in place. Your own techniques are irrelevant because you are no longer allowed to use them. (IE)coach swase made a career & was largely respected throughout college football because he taught & trained athletes up using fast twitch methods... however once golden came here he kept him on staff & told him no more speed,or fast twitch. I want these kids bulked up. It became his job to abandon his methods & employ everything else to bulk them up. We know the end result. In arts case it was the same ****. He made a career of having aggressive well disciplined lines that attacked the point. **** boy got here & said I want them to zone block... he knew **** about coaching to zone block. A conversation I recently had with b-mac explained all of our real concerns. Arthe went from just being him & not giving a **** to trying to hard to avoid the issue & just be buddy buddy to keep his job. The old art held people coaches included accountable at all times.

Who's BMac?

Bryant mckinnie

 

[Brooklyndee]

Last time I'll bring this up because apparently the relevance of this is not fully understood... As an assistant coach or position coach more accurately there's jobs are to coach to the system the head coach wants in place. Your own techniques are irrelevant because you are no longer allowed to use them. (IE)coach swase made a career & was largely respected throughout college football because he taught & trained athletes up using fast twitch methods... however once golden came here he kept him on staff & told him no more speed,or fast twitch. I want these kids bulked up. It became his job to abandon his methods & employ everything else to bulk them up. We know the end result. In arts case it was the same ****. He made a career of having aggressive well disciplined lines that attacked the point. **** boy got here & said I want them to zone block... he knew **** about coaching to zone block. A conversation I recently had with b-mac explained all of our real concerns. Arthe went from just being him & not giving a **** to trying to hard to avoid the issue & just be buddy buddy to keep his job. The old art held people coaches included accountable at all times.

Stoudland > Kehoe

Not even close

 

[Brooklyndee]

Because he was Goldenized. Happy to have his job back after losing his balls when fired in 05. Became a content, koolaid drinking yes man under Al, just the way Al wanted it.

Exactly what I said but summarized far better. Preach

 

[gacaneaddict]

The NFL OL he coached in the 2013 bowl game vs. Louisville was a travesty.

He had Ereck Flowers-1st rounder
Brandon Linder-3rd rounder
Jon Feleciano-4th rounder
Sentrell Henderson-7th rounder

3 of these guys have started in NFL games.

They got their a** beaten to a pulp by louisvilles front in that game.

That told me what I needed to know about Kehoe, and I wasn't in favor of him being re hired.

 

[Torocane]

Last time I'll bring this up because apparently the relevance of this is not fully understood... As an assistant coach or position coach more accurately there's jobs are to coach to the system the head coach wants in place. Your own techniques are irrelevant because you are no longer allowed to use them. (IE)coach swase made a career & was largely respected throughout college football because he taught & trained athletes up using fast twitch methods... however once golden came here he kept him on staff & told him no more speed,or fast twitch. I want these kids bulked up. It became his job to abandon his methods & employ everything else to bulk them up. We know the end result. In arts case it was the same ****. He made a career of having aggressive well disciplined lines that attacked the point. **** boy got here & said I want them to zone block... he knew **** about coaching to zone block. A conversation I recently had with b-mac explained all of our real concerns. Arthe went from just being him & not giving a **** to trying to hard to avoid the issue & just be buddy buddy to keep his job. The old art held people coaches included accountable at all times.

Stoudland > Kehoe

Not even close

Says the person that made up Stoudland having an ncaa show-cause

Kehoe = mediocre

Wish it wasn't so. It would be great if it wasn't so. Would love for a guy that is such a cane to also be great...but that's not the case.
The job market has determined that.(can't get an OL coach job)
The overall performance of his OL through out his career has determined that.
He had ONE cycle of players come through and be great 2001.
Sucked at recruiting (hence the term Kehoe special).

I wish he was this legendary OL coach but it's just not the reality.

 

[INCaneFan]

Art Kehoe did not suck. Every OL he coached got better until last year. He did a tremendous job with Feliciano and Wheeler who came in looking like they didn't belong in division 1 football. He did a great job with Henderson who played like crap as a true Freshman and became an outstanding pass blocker, went to the Bills as a seventh round draft choice and started over their first round draft choice from Alabama, Kouandjio. He had several OLs drafted. Last year he had to work with probably the least experienced OL in Miami history. One player, Isidora, had barely a season's worth of snaps. The rest of the roster had no snaps at all or less than a third of a seasons worth of snaps. OL is a unit where playing experience is critical both on an individual level and as a group. With the exception of Gaul, every OL played better in the second half of the season than the first. I have kept track of every play of every OL in every game against a FBS opponent for the last 8 years. Art Kehoe has never come close to sucking.

Let me get this logic. You're claiming he did a great job with Henderson even though Henderson fell to the 7th round after being a consensus 5 star then went on to be an NFL starter? Had he done a great job with Henderson he wouldn't have been a bargain basement 7th round pick.

He was a 7th round pick because of his off the field issues, multiple suspensions and testing positive for weed multiple times

He was getting compared to Ogden coming out of high school. I saw very little improvement from his first year here through his last. Yes, the admission of weed hurt his stock, but I don't see him going any higher than the fourth were he as clean as a whistle.

I liked Henderson as a player. I said he would last the longest of any pick we had that year in the NFL if he stayed healthy. He was pretty darn decent on the field when he saw action and as I previously said, that was due to his natural ability. Kehoe didn't do him any favors. He hit the league and with a real coach using what he was born with, he blossomed.

Kehoe was average at best. He was never courted by other schools and after being fired from here and his stint with Ed, his only opportunity was the bottom of the barrel program. That's telling as all get out.

The main issue I had with Kehoe was what I called the Kehoe shuffle. He would move the OL around seemingly on a whim. OL is a position you need cohesion and you only get that by lining up next to the same man time and time again.

I wish him well, he's a great man who knows football and has a ton of energy that he brings to a program. His flaw above limited his success though.

 

[MedleyCane]

This post works in the other direction as well. It's telling that he got through all of those coaches and championships and not one fired him until Coker sank the ship.

Understand what you're saying but.....Jimmy and Erickson probably kept him because those 2 head coaches were outsiders and
they wanted to retain someone, or some coaches, with existing ties to the program.
Also, during that era, programs were allowed to have bigger coaching staffs, which allowed Kehoe to be retained as an
Assistant OL coach behind Tony Wise and Greg Smith.
I suppose Butch and Coker could have brought in someone else instead of keeping him as the full-time OL coach.
Perhaps neither of those coaches had enough budget to bring in someone else?
Not sure.
When it comes to coaches, I tend to go with what the (coaching) market says about you.
Young quality Head and assistant coaches don't last long at UM.

You saying the fact no other coaches brought him with them is telling of his ability is just stupid. Who's to say he wasn't offered those opportunities but turned them down to stay at Miami? The guy bleeds orange and green, and not everyone is willing to do things for money. The guy is a Cane, and has been a coach here for 20 something years, maybe to him staying here in the great city of Miami is all he's wanted. It's not that crazy, just listen to schnelly when he says his biggest regret is leaving Miami to move into the "better" job in the pro football league.

So where is Art working these days?
Like I said, I respect him because he is a Cane and always a good ambassador of his school, but he was not a very good OL coach, and the coaching market has confirmed this on several occasions.....it is really not that hard to understand.

Regardless, your reasoning why he was a bad coach was terrible. Just because he didn't follow former head coaches to the league or wherever doesn't mean he's not a good coach.
And now he isn't coaching anymore, but how do you know if he even wants to? Once again, you don't know if he has any offers, and just wants to retire. The fact is you don't know what job offers he does or does not have. You are completely guessing. Maybe he only wants to coach if it's at Miami, otherwise he'd rather help out at a local HS because he likes helping young kids make it to college.

If you want to say he isn't a good coach at least use valid arguments dude.

Yeah dude....he is thoroughly enjoying his time being unemployed with wife and kids to support.
Are you serious?
Reasons have been provided by me and others as to why he wasn't a good coach.
There are also two OLmen who played for both Stoutland and Kehoe who will tell you how much the coaching went down when the latter took over (parents used to post on another Cane board).
But you want to heel dig, that's on you.

 

[Ibis Wingz]

Get your licks in now.

 

[The Franchise]

Understand what you're saying but.....Jimmy and Erickson probably kept him because those 2 head coaches were outsiders and
they wanted to retain someone, or some coaches, with existing ties to the program.
Also, during that era, programs were allowed to have bigger coaching staffs, which allowed Kehoe to be retained as an
Assistant OL coach behind Tony Wise and Greg Smith.
I suppose Butch and Coker could have brought in someone else instead of keeping him as the full-time OL coach.
Perhaps neither of those coaches had enough budget to bring in someone else?
Not sure.
When it comes to coaches, I tend to go with what the (coaching) market says about you.
Young quality Head and assistant coaches don't last long at UM.

You saying the fact no other coaches brought him with them is telling of his ability is just stupid. Who's to say he wasn't offered those opportunities but turned them down to stay at Miami? The guy bleeds orange and green, and not everyone is willing to do things for money. The guy is a Cane, and has been a coach here for 20 something years, maybe to him staying here in the great city of Miami is all he's wanted. It's not that crazy, just listen to schnelly when he says his biggest regret is leaving Miami to move into the "better" job in the pro football league.

So where is Art working these days?
Like I said, I respect him because he is a Cane and always a good ambassador of his school, but he was not a very good OL coach, and the coaching market has confirmed this on several occasions.....it is really not that hard to understand.

Regardless, your reasoning why he was a bad coach was terrible. Just because he didn't follow former head coaches to the league or wherever doesn't mean he's not a good coach.
And now he isn't coaching anymore, but how do you know if he even wants to? Once again, you don't know if he has any offers, and just wants to retire. The fact is you don't know what job offers he does or does not have. You are completely guessing. Maybe he only wants to coach if it's at Miami, otherwise he'd rather help out at a local HS because he likes helping young kids make it to college.

If you want to say he isn't a good coach at least use valid arguments dude.

Yeah dude....he is thoroughly enjoying his time being unemployed with wife and kids to support.
Are you serious?
Reasons have been provided by me and others as to why he wasn't a good coach.
There are also two OLmen who played for both Stoutland and Kehoe who will tell you how much the coaching went down when the latter took over (parents used to post on another Cane board).
But you want to heel dig, that's on you.

These rubes love to do mental gymnastics to support their stupid theories. I'm guessing this kid's 22 years old still receiving financial support from his parents. Fcking clueless about the real world and paying bills.

Yeah. Kehoe doesn't want to make $300k per year doing what he was trained to do. He'd rather sit at home with no income with a family to support.

These are the same morons who claim Randy Shannon keeps turning down DC and HC gigs because he'd rather be a position coach.

 

[djh]

Since he is no longer at the U, why can't we move on and root for our team under Richt?

 

[ben]

You saying the fact no other coaches brought him with them is telling of his ability is just stupid. Who's to say he wasn't offered those opportunities but turned them down to stay at Miami? The guy bleeds orange and green, and not everyone is willing to do things for money. The guy is a Cane, and has been a coach here for 20 something years, maybe to him staying here in the great city of Miami is all he's wanted. It's not that crazy, just listen to schnelly when he says his biggest regret is leaving Miami to move into the "better" job in the pro football league.

So where is Art working these days?
Like I said, I respect him because he is a Cane and always a good ambassador of his school, but he was not a very good OL coach, and the coaching market has confirmed this on several occasions.....it is really not that hard to understand.

Regardless, your reasoning why he was a bad coach was terrible. Just because he didn't follow former head coaches to the league or wherever doesn't mean he's not a good coach.
And now he isn't coaching anymore, but how do you know if he even wants to? Once again, you don't know if he has any offers, and just wants to retire. The fact is you don't know what job offers he does or does not have. You are completely guessing. Maybe he only wants to coach if it's at Miami, otherwise he'd rather help out at a local HS because he likes helping young kids make it to college.

If you want to say he isn't a good coach at least use valid arguments dude.

Yeah dude....he is thoroughly enjoying his time being unemployed with wife and kids to support.
Are you serious?
Reasons have been provided by me and others as to why he wasn't a good coach.
There are also two OLmen who played for both Stoutland and Kehoe who will tell you how much the coaching went down when the latter took over (parents used to post on another Cane board).
But you want to heel dig, that's on you.

These rubes love to do mental gymnastics to support their stupid theories. I'm guessing this kid's 22 years old still receiving financial support from his parents. Fcking clueless about the real world and paying bills.

Yeah. Kehoe doesn't want to make $300k per year doing what he was trained to do. He'd rather sit at home with no income with a family to support.

These are the same morons who claim Randy Shannon keeps turning down DC and HC gigs because he'd rather be a position coach.

maybe Kehoe's number is more like $400,000 and that's why he's waiting, because $300,000 is less than what he's worth because he's so good.