Why did Kehoe suck so much when he returned

[MedleyCane]

He wasnt that good to begin with.
He's not that good of a developer of talent...and his recruiting evals arent all that either.

It wasn't never lost on me that Jimmy Johnson, Erickson, Chud, Pagano or Butch never took Kehoe when they moved
on.
I think that says alot right there, especially since those coaches moved on to programs and/or NFL franchises
which would have paid him substantially more.
He should have never been rehired as UM OL coach.
I got the impression from listening to Golden at the time that he was highly recommended to him.
I wonder if this was Joaquin, Don Bailey Jr,etc crew who leaned on Golden.
Nonetheless, he's a true Cane.
At other schools, these type of former player/alums are gracefully moved on to office gig, fundraising
or even radio/tv duties.
I wished the school would find something for him.
Just keep him away from OL coaching duties.

This post works in the other direction as well. It's telling that he got through all of those coaches and championships and not one fired him until Coker sank the ship.

Understand what you're saying but.....Jimmy and Erickson probably kept him because those 2 head coaches were outsiders and
they wanted to retain someone, or some coaches, with existing ties to the program.
Also, during that era, programs were allowed to have bigger coaching staffs, which allowed Kehoe to be retained as an
Assistant OL coach behind Tony Wise and Greg Smith.
I suppose Butch and Coker could have brought in someone else instead of keeping him as the full-time OL coach.
Perhaps neither of those coaches had enough budget to bring in someone else?
Not sure.
When it comes to coaches, I tend to go with what the (coaching) market says about you.
Young quality Head and assistant coaches don't last long at UM.

 

[BMS242]

Can't believe people still think he was actually the OL coach for any titles other than 2001, when he was benefiting from a roster built by the best recruiter in the business. He was an assistant that fired up the team until 95 and for the most part his lines sucked other than in the early 2000s. Great guy, but he is just not a good coach.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[rustywalkedaway]

He wasnt that good to begin with.
He's not that good of a developer of talent...and his recruiting evals arent all that either.

It wasn't never lost on me that Jimmy Johnson, Erickson, Chud, Pagano or Butch never took Kehoe when they moved
on.
I think that says alot right there, especially since those coaches moved on to programs and/or NFL franchises
which would have paid him substantially more.
He should have never been rehired as UM OL coach.
I got the impression from listening to Golden at the time that he was highly recommended to him.
I wonder if this was Joaquin, Don Bailey Jr,etc crew who leaned on Golden.
Nonetheless, he's a true Cane.
At other schools, these type of former player/alums are gracefully moved on to office gig, fundraising
or even radio/tv duties.
I wished the school would find something for him.
Just keep him away from OL coaching duties.

This post works in the other direction as well. It's telling that he got through all of those coaches and championships and not one fired him until Coker sank the ship.

I see your point, but find the first argument much more persuasive. I believe all prior head coaches took some staff when they moved on, but none took Kehoe. That says a lot to me.

Also I believe Kehoe only "clicked" with some guys and he only wanted to work with some guys. He almost seemed to have a problem with recruiting highly rated high school recruits. Like he didn't even want to recruit them BECAUSE they were highly ranked (there were obviously exceptions; he loved Youngblood and vice versa). Maybe he felt that type of recruit lacked hunger, or maybe he wanted to be the genius who found the under the radar guys and made them All Americans. He actually pulled that off with some guys. Simultaneously he also probably took us out of the running with a bunch of "elite" recruits.

And yes, he does deserve a fund raising/glad handing job for life as he is (arguably more than any Miami football coach ever) the U. Nobody stayed no longer (however that worked out) or has more hardware to show for it.

 

[The Franchise]

First, Kehoe wasn't the OL Coach from 85 to 2005. He didn't become the actual OL Coach until the mid-90s.

Second, he sucked before he came back in 2010. He got ran out of Old **** after Coker fired him. And he was working as a volunteer at Lambuth College when Folden pulled him off that scrap heap after being pressured by Romberg and Gonzalez and that whole glory years crew that was pimping Beanerdict Arnold for the HC gig before Richt fell into our lap.

Third, they should make him the new Yamma Yamma Man. He'd be awesome in a role like that.

Fourth, no one was going to succeed under Folden. Before anyone mentions Fisch, go shoot yourself in the eye socket.

 

[timujian]

Art Kehoe did not suck. Every OL he coached got better until last year. He did a tremendous job with Feliciano and Wheeler who came in looking like they didn't belong in division 1 football. He did a great job with Henderson who played like crap as a true Freshman and became an outstanding pass blocker, went to the Bills as a seventh round draft choice and started over their first round draft choice from Alabama, Kouandjio. He had several OLs drafted. Last year he had to work with probably the least experienced OL in Miami history. One player, Isidora, had barely a season's worth of snaps. The rest of the roster had no snaps at all or less than a third of a seasons worth of snaps. OL is a unit where playing experience is critical both on an individual level and as a group. With the exception of Gaul, every OL played better in the second half of the season than the first. I have kept track of every play of every OL in every game against a FBS opponent for the last 8 years. Art Kehoe has never come close to sucking.

 

[The Franchise]

Art Kehoe did not suck. Every OL he coached got better until last year. He did a tremendous job with Feliciano and Wheeler who came in looking like they didn't belong in division 1 football. He did a great job with Henderson who played like crap as a true Freshman and became an outstanding pass blocker, went to the Bills as a seventh round draft choice and started over their first round draft choice from Alabama, Kouandjio. He had several OLs drafted. Last year he had to work with probably the least experienced OL in Miami history. One player, Isidora, had barely a season's worth of snaps. The rest of the roster had no snaps at all or less than a third of a seasons worth of snaps. OL is a unit where playing experience is critical both on an individual level and as a group. With the exception of Gaul, every OL played better in the second half of the season than the first. I have kept track of every play of every OL in every game against a FBS opponent for the last 8 years. Art Kehoe has never come close to sucking.

Let me get this logic. You're claiming he did a great job with Henderson even though Henderson fell to the 7th round after being a consensus 5 star then went on to be an NFL starter? Had he done a great job with Henderson he wouldn't have been a bargain basement 7th round pick.

 

[timujian]

Art Kehoe did not suck. Every OL he coached got better until last year. He did a tremendous job with Feliciano and Wheeler who came in looking like they didn't belong in division 1 football. He did a great job with Henderson who played like crap as a true Freshman and became an outstanding pass blocker, went to the Bills as a seventh round draft choice and started over their first round draft choice from Alabama, Kouandjio. He had several OLs drafted. Last year he had to work with probably the least experienced OL in Miami history. One player, Isidora, had barely a season's worth of snaps. The rest of the roster had no snaps at all or less than a third of a seasons worth of snaps. OL is a unit where playing experience is critical both on an individual level and as a group. With the exception of Gaul, every OL played better in the second half of the season than the first. I have kept track of every play of every OL in every game against a FBS opponent for the last 8 years. Art Kehoe has never come close to sucking.

Let me get this logic. You're claiming he did a great job with Henderson even though Henderson fell to the 7th round after being a consensus 5 star then went on to be an NFL starter? Had he done a great job with Henderson he wouldn't have been a bargain basement 7th round pick.

Yes. He did a great job with Henderson despite the fact that Henderson was not highly motivated to succeed.

The 5 star ranking was completely off the mark. Go back and look at his highlights. He never fires off the ball. He just stands up and falls on the opponent. He doesn't block for the entire play and he never runs downfield. He was terrible when he showed up here. You don't make starting OT as a NFL rookie, beating out an "all world" first rounder without a pretty strong foundation. Kehoe gets credit for that. I understand that Kehoe has become a favorite whipping boy, but he doesn't deserve it.

 

[mirvin88]

He was never good. He didn't have all world talent when he returned

 

[5titlesandcounting]

He was never good. He didn't have all world talent when he returned

agreed. Firing Kehoe may have been the only correct thing Coker did as coach. Even God awful head coaches can somehow make correct decisions sometimes.

 

[TemplarCane]

There is a reason why Jimmy Johnson left Kehoe behind, why Butch Davis planned on letting Kehoe go (had Butch not left for the NFL), and a reason why Kehoe was unable to find a job after Mississippi fired him when they fired Ed Orgeron.

Art Kehoe is not a good OL coach.

 

[brock]

Art Kehoe did not suck. Every OL he coached got better until last year. He did a tremendous job with Feliciano and Wheeler who came in looking like they didn't belong in division 1 football. He did a great job with Henderson who played like crap as a true Freshman and became an outstanding pass blocker, went to the Bills as a seventh round draft choice and started over their first round draft choice from Alabama, Kouandjio. He had several OLs drafted. Last year he had to work with probably the least experienced OL in Miami history. One player, Isidora, had barely a season's worth of snaps. The rest of the roster had no snaps at all or less than a third of a seasons worth of snaps. OL is a unit where playing experience is critical both on an individual level and as a group. With the exception of Gaul, every OL played better in the second half of the season than the first. I have kept track of every play of every OL in every game against a FBS opponent for the last 8 years. Art Kehoe has never come close to sucking.

Let me get this logic. You're claiming he did a great job with Henderson even though Henderson fell to the 7th round after being a consensus 5 star then went on to be an NFL starter? Had he done a great job with Henderson he wouldn't have been a bargain basement 7th round pick.

He was a 7th round pick because of his off the field issues, multiple suspensions and testing positive for weed multiple times

 

[Brooklyndee]

Last time I'll bring this up because apparently the relevance of this is not fully understood... As an assistant coach or position coach more accurately there's jobs are to coach to the system the head coach wants in place. Your own techniques are irrelevant because you are no longer allowed to use them. (IE)coach swase made a career & was largely respected throughout college football because he taught & trained athletes up using fast twitch methods... however once golden came here he kept him on staff & told him no more speed,or fast twitch. I want these kids bulked up. It became his job to abandon his methods & employ everything else to bulk them up. We know the end result. In arts case it was the same ****. He made a career of having aggressive well disciplined lines that attacked the point. **** boy got here & said I want them to zone block... he knew **** about coaching to zone block. A conversation I recently had with b-mac explained all of our real concerns. Arthe went from just being him & not giving a **** to trying to hard to avoid the issue & just be buddy buddy to keep his job. The old art held people coaches included accountable at all times.

 

[Calinative]

He wasnt that good to begin with.
He's not that good of a developer of talent...and his recruiting evals arent all that either.

It wasn't never lost on me that Jimmy Johnson, Erickson, Chud, Pagano or Butch never took Kehoe when they moved
on.
I think that says alot right there, especially since those coaches moved on to programs and/or NFL franchises
which would have paid him substantially more.
He should have never been rehired as UM OL coach.
I got the impression from listening to Golden at the time that he was highly recommended to him.
I wonder if this was Joaquin, Don Bailey Jr,etc crew who leaned on Golden.
Nonetheless, he's a true Cane.
At other schools, these type of former player/alums are gracefully moved on to office gig, fundraising
or even radio/tv duties.
I wished the school would find something for him.
Just keep him away from OL coaching duties.

This post works in the other direction as well. It's telling that he got through all of those coaches and championships and not one fired him until Coker sank the ship.

Understand what you're saying but.....Jimmy and Erickson probably kept him because those 2 head coaches were outsiders and
they wanted to retain someone, or some coaches, with existing ties to the program.
Also, during that era, programs were allowed to have bigger coaching staffs, which allowed Kehoe to be retained as an
Assistant OL coach behind Tony Wise and Greg Smith.
I suppose Butch and Coker could have brought in someone else instead of keeping him as the full-time OL coach.
Perhaps neither of those coaches had enough budget to bring in someone else?
Not sure.
When it comes to coaches, I tend to go with what the (coaching) market says about you.
Young quality Head and assistant coaches don't last long at UM.

You saying the fact no other coaches brought him with them is telling of his ability is just stupid. Who's to say he wasn't offered those opportunities but turned them down to stay at Miami? The guy bleeds orange and green, and not everyone is willing to do things for money. The guy is a Cane, and has been a coach here for 20 something years, maybe to him staying here in the great city of Miami is all he's wanted. It's not that crazy, just listen to schnelly when he says his biggest regret is leaving Miami to move into the "better" job in the pro football league.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Art Kehoe did not suck. Every OL he coached got better until last year. He did a tremendous job with Feliciano and Wheeler who came in looking like they didn't belong in division 1 football. He did a great job with Henderson who played like crap as a true Freshman and became an outstanding pass blocker, went to the Bills as a seventh round draft choice and started over their first round draft choice from Alabama, Kouandjio. He had several OLs drafted. Last year he had to work with probably the least experienced OL in Miami history. One player, Isidora, had barely a season's worth of snaps. The rest of the roster had no snaps at all or less than a third of a seasons worth of snaps. OL is a unit where playing experience is critical both on an individual level and as a group. With the exception of Gaul, every OL played better in the second half of the season than the first. I have kept track of every play of every OL in every game against a FBS opponent for the last 8 years. Art Kehoe has never come close to sucking.

Kehoe underachieved here. Actually Henderson regressed under Kehoe. Stoutland had Henderson beasting as a true freshman. I don't know where you got your assessment. I still remember Henderson dominating Daquan Bowers (best DE in college during the 2010 season) as a true freshman. Kehoe also wasted the talents of Washington an all conference performer by playing him at tackle. He initially did the same with Feliciano who is naturally a guard. He did not make anyone better...

 

[Gatorhater]

He wasnt that good to begin with.
He's not that good of a developer of talent...and his recruiting evals arent all that either.

It wasn't never lost on me that Jimmy Johnson, Erickson, Chud, Pagano or Butch never took Kehoe when they moved
on.
I think that says alot right there, especially since those coaches moved on to programs and/or NFL franchises
which would have paid him substantially more.
He should have never been rehired as UM OL coach.
I got the impression from listening to Golden at the time that he was highly recommended to him.
I wonder if this was Joaquin, Don Bailey Jr,etc crew who leaned on Golden.
Nonetheless, he's a true Cane.
At other schools, these type of former player/alums are gracefully moved on to office gig, fundraising
or even radio/tv duties.
I wished the school would find something for him.
Just keep him away from OL coaching duties.

Good point but also please note that now of those NFL HCs ever replaced Art either.

 

[poncho0091]

Art Kehoe did not suck. Every OL he coached got better until last year. He did a tremendous job with Feliciano and Wheeler who came in looking like they didn't belong in division 1 football. He did a great job with Henderson who played like crap as a true Freshman and became an outstanding pass blocker, went to the Bills as a seventh round draft choice and started over their first round draft choice from Alabama, Kouandjio. He had several OLs drafted. Last year he had to work with probably the least experienced OL in Miami history. One player, Isidora, had barely a season's worth of snaps. The rest of the roster had no snaps at all or less than a third of a seasons worth of snaps. OL is a unit where playing experience is critical both on an individual level and as a group. With the exception of Gaul, every OL played better in the second half of the season than the first. I have kept track of every play of every OL in every game against a FBS opponent for the last 8 years. Art Kehoe has never come close to sucking.

Kehoe underachieved here. Actually Henderson regressed under Kehoe. Stoutland had Henderson beasting as a true freshman. I don't know where you got your assessment. I still remember Henderson dominating Daquan Bowers (best DE in college during the 2010 season) as a true freshman. Kehoe also wasted the talents of Washington an all conference performer by playing him at tackle. He initially did the same with Feliciano who is naturally a guard. He did not make anyone better...

You don't think Washington at tackle was Golden's plan?

 

[Southbeach44]

When Golden brought Art back most of us (me definitely included) cheered the move. We probably should have seen it as a red flag on Golden that he'd have no other real candidates or cave with a pander-to-the-fanbase/alumni staff spot. God, I hope we don't end up saying that about Richt and Rumph.

This. It was a token hire that Golden did when he knew he was in way over his head. He knew the fans would like the hire and it bought him some more time.

As for Art, at one time long ago before twitter facebook and all social media, he was a good OL coach. He was good for the U. Players recruited the U back then. Different story now. Kehoe just would not or could not conform and relate to today's college recruits. These kids now days dont care about the 80's and 90's. He did his best and he is a legendary Cane. He is just not a major D1 college coach now. And he was not when Golden hired him back.

 

[Torocane]

He wasnt that good to begin with.
He's not that good of a developer of talent...and his recruiting evals arent all that either.

It wasn't never lost on me that Jimmy Johnson, Erickson, Chud, Pagano or Butch never took Kehoe when they moved
on.
I think that says alot right there, especially since those coaches moved on to programs and/or NFL franchises
which would have paid him substantially more.
He should have never been rehired as UM OL coach.
I got the impression from listening to Golden at the time that he was highly recommended to him.
I wonder if this was Joaquin, Don Bailey Jr,etc crew who leaned on Golden.
Nonetheless, he's a true Cane.
At other schools, these type of former player/alums are gracefully moved on to office gig, fundraising
or even radio/tv duties.
I wished the school would find something for him.
Just keep him away from OL coaching duties.

This post works in the other direction as well. It's telling that he got through all of those coaches and championships and not one fired him until Coker sank the ship.

Understand what you're saying but.....Jimmy and Erickson probably kept him because those 2 head coaches were outsiders and
they wanted to retain someone, or some coaches, with existing ties to the program.
Also, during that era, programs were allowed to have bigger coaching staffs, which allowed Kehoe to be retained as an
Assistant OL coach behind Tony Wise and Greg Smith.
I suppose Butch and Coker could have brought in someone else instead of keeping him as the full-time OL coach.
Perhaps neither of those coaches had enough budget to bring in someone else?
Not sure.
When it comes to coaches, I tend to go with what the (coaching) market says about you.
Young quality Head and assistant coaches don't last long at UM.

You saying the fact no other coaches brought him with them is telling of his ability is just stupid. Who's to say he wasn't offered those opportunities but turned them down to stay at Miami? The guy bleeds orange and green, and not everyone is willing to do things for money. The guy is a Cane, and has been a coach here for 20 something years, maybe to him staying here in the great city of Miami is all he's wanted. It's not that crazy, just listen to schnelly when he says his biggest regret is leaving Miami to move into the "better" job in the pro football league.

More telling has been his inability to get a OL coach job when he has been available (without a job)

 

[Torocane]

Last time I'll bring this up because apparently the relevance of this is not fully understood... As an assistant coach or position coach more accurately there's jobs are to coach to the system the head coach wants in place. Your own techniques are irrelevant because you are no longer allowed to use them. (IE)coach swase made a career & was largely respected throughout college football because he taught & trained athletes up using fast twitch methods... however once golden came here he kept him on staff & told him no more speed,or fast twitch. I want these kids bulked up. It became his job to abandon his methods & employ everything else to bulk them up. We know the end result. In arts case it was the same ****. He made a career of having aggressive well disciplined lines that attacked the point. **** boy got here & said I want them to zone block... he knew **** about coaching to zone block. A conversation I recently had with b-mac explained all of our real concerns. Arthe went from just being him & not giving a **** to trying to hard to avoid the issue & just be buddy buddy to keep his job. The old art held people coaches included accountable at all times.

Stoudland > Kehoe

 

[ball915]

Because he was Goldenized. Happy to have his job back after losing his balls when fired in 05. Became a content, koolaid drinking yes man under Al, just the way Al wanted it.