Where did it go Wrong? Coastal chaos and other questions regarding the ACC

These massive conferences ain't it. THAT'S where it went wrong. There's no good way to fix the ACC at it it's current size.

The ACC tried divisions. But they moved away from divisions because.. what if the two best teams in the conference are in the same division?

They tried going without divisions, but that somehow made things worse. This is the second year in a row where multiple teams could've gone unbeaten in conference play because they somehow didn't play each other.

Yeah they could change tiebreaker rules.. again.. to put the committee's highest ranked teams in. But the committee is ******** us right now. Does anyone really want to put our fate 100% in the hands of the committee?
they have to do a better job with the scheduling - who teams play and when bye weeks are.

Next season, use the ranking from this season as a start. In no season should any team NOT PLAY any of the strongest teams in the league. It's not going to be easy but I'm sure it can be done.

Computer scheduling can be a start. Then take the time to massage those results to make the schedules more fair and complete.

It's too easy to throw hands up and say it can't be done. It can, if there is a desire.
 
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Here’s a question about the 4th and 9 call-

Is “roughing the passer” the same thing as “unnecessary roughness”? I am curious if the former term is used interchangeably with the latter penalty when it happens to a QB. If not, I wonder if the elements of each penalty are different- maybe “unnecessary roughness” allows a ref more discretion (like an”intent” crime) while roughing the passer does not require intent and gets called whenever a QB gets hit too hard. Thoughts?
 
they have to do a better job with the scheduling - who teams play and when bye weeks are.

Next season, use the ranking from this season as a start. In no season should any team NOT PLAY any of the strongest teams in the league. It's not going to be easy but I'm sure it can be done.

Computer scheduling can be a start. Then take the time to massage those results to make the schedules more fair and complete.

It's too easy to throw hands up and say it can't be done. It can, if there is a desire.
I posted this playoff mega thread a couple weeks ago.

The ACC hasn't figured out that conference scheduling matters.

Games played between bye weeks for the SEC:

Alabama : 3 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 4 games
Florida: 4 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 5 games
Georgia: 3 games (BYE) 4 games (BYE) 5 games
LSU: 5 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 4 games
Oklahoma: 4 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 3 games
Tennessee 5 games (BYE) 4 games (BYE) 3 games
Texas: 4 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 3 games
Texas A&M: 3 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 4 games

Notice how they don't play more than 5 games or fewer than 3 between byes? Most of them have FCS/G5 opponents during their 5 game stretches or after their final bye.

Games played between bye weeks for the ACC:

Cal: 6 games (BYE) 4 games (BYE) 2 games
Clemson: 4 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 5 games
Louisville: 2 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 7 games
Miami: 4 games (BYE) 1 game (BYE) 7 games
NC State: 7 games (BYE) 2 games (BYE) 3 games
Pitt: 3 games (BYE) 6 games (BYE) 3 games
SMU: 4 games (BYE) 6 games (BYE) 2 games
Virginia: 6 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 1 game

3 of those 8 teams play 7 games before or after a bye.
7 of 8 play at least 6 games before or after a bye.
We got our second bye week 2 weeks after our first bye.
Virginia got their second bye one week before their final game of the season.

Does the ACC really not see this? It's self sabotage.
 



Some highlights:

-But as the business of college football has gotten bigger, the rewards of success richer, and the battles for conference supremacy more intense, the ACC's role as college football's most colorful band of swashbuckling misfits isn't so fun for the coaches whose careers hang in the balance and the programs desperate to keep pace in a rapidly evolving landscape in which the ACC often feels woefully behind.

"The ACC is becoming a laughingstock," one former ACC coach said. "It's not a cool place to be."

Duke's presence in Charlotte on Saturday is a result of a five-way tie for second place in the league, but also, according to a dozen current and former ACC coaches and administrators who spoke to ESPN, a symptom of longstanding problems -- issues some coaches and ADs saw coming more than a decade ago -- that have put the conference in increasingly difficult circumstances.

"The ACC has two problems," one former ACC coach said. "The real ones and the narrative."

Even in good times, the national perspective is that the ACC is living on borrowed time.

When Phillips was pressed on whether his league was treated fairly -- including by its TV partner -- during the league's kickoff event in July, he admitted he has his frustrations but ultimately put the onus on his own membership to change the talking points.

"You may feel that way, and sometimes I may feel that way," Phillips said about being treated as a lesser league, "but ... one of the things we have to do is we've got to perform better. We have to do our part."

"We were asleep at the wheel for years," said one administrator, who included his own school as a culprit. "We watched investments, negotiations, people positioning for the future being done while we just sat there and looked around. We weren't investing in football as a league, when everybody else knew that was the future. And we're still not."

Many of the coaches and ADs who spoke with ESPN praised Phillips' efforts to modernize the conference but said the culture that led the ACC to fall behind in the past remains embedded into the league's DNA for too many schools. For all of Phillips' efforts to push the ACC toward a more aggressive plan of action, he works for university presidents, who've too often been out of step with the modern college football landscape, according to nearly everyone who spoke with ESPN.

The league's cultural identity as a basketball conference was a common complaint among coaches and ADs who spoke with ESPN, and an engrained philosophy of doing more with less convinced even bigger schools that investment wasn't necessary. After all, if Frank Beamer, Bobby Bowden and a host of Miami coaches had won big without throwing millions of dollars at players and building massive football operations buildings, why couldn't the new cast of coaches?

The national perspective often suggests it's the result of a down league, because the ACC's signature brands haven't met expectations.

Meanwhile, the SEC's big three (Alabama, Georgia, LSU) and the Big Ten's (Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan) have each hit the eight-win mark together six times since the ACC last did.

The reason, one coach who has worked across multiple Power 5 leagues said, is the arrivals of Nick Saban at Alabama and Urban Meyer at Ohio State.

"All colleges suffer from inertia," the coach said, "but Saban came in and wrecked things."

Saban and Meyer wielded massive influence and forced huge investments that dwarfed their competition. As a result, the competition -- particularly at the top of both leagues -- followed suit in an effort to keep up.

The ACC is just recently coming to the same conclusion.

________

this is just part of the article. It's well written and goes into further detail, with examples. It talks about fan engagement and participation in actually GOING to games; the role of basketball in the state of football, etc.

I never liked the idea of UM joining the ACC. Something about it made me feel that UM would suffer in a "basketball conference." Not that the Big East was anything other than a "basketball conference." It just seemed that football was small enough in the Big East to allow UM to win easy in the conference and had enough schedule left to play decent non-conference opponents. Only Cuse, Pitt and BC had legitimate football programs. UM still ended up playing teams like Penn State, OSU, Washington, Tennessee, etc. Those games were epic and enhanced UM's image of swagger. In the current over-expanded ACC, UM plays a bunch of crappy teams instead of traditional college powerhouses. And heaven forbid losing to one or two of those unranked teams, like UM did this year. I would rather see UM as an independent, playing top opponents of their choosing, even if it meant some losses, instead of being obligated to play in a conference that can only make the team look bad and never outstanding.
 
I posted this playoff mega thread a couple weeks ago.

The ACC hasn't figured out that conference scheduling matters.

Games played between bye weeks for the SEC:

Alabama : 3 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 4 games
Florida: 4 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 5 games
Georgia: 3 games (BYE) 4 games (BYE) 5 games
LSU: 5 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 4 games
Oklahoma: 4 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 3 games
Tennessee 5 games (BYE) 4 games (BYE) 3 games
Texas: 4 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 3 games
Texas A&M: 3 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 4 games

Notice how they don't play more than 5 games or fewer than 3 between byes? Most of them have FCS/G5 opponents during their 5 game stretches or after their final bye.

Games played between bye weeks for the ACC:

Cal: 6 games (BYE) 4 games (BYE) 2 games
Clemson: 4 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 5 games
Louisville: 2 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 7 games
Miami: 4 games (BYE) 1 game (BYE) 7 games
NC State: 7 games (BYE) 2 games (BYE) 3 games
Pitt: 3 games (BYE) 6 games (BYE) 3 games
SMU: 4 games (BYE) 6 games (BYE) 2 games
Virginia: 6 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 1 game

3 of those 8 teams play 7 games before or after a bye.
7 of 8 play at least 6 games before or after a bye.
We got our second bye week 2 weeks after our first bye.
Virginia got their second bye one week before their final game of the season.

Does the ACC really not see this? It's self sabotage.
I posted something similar recently. To add to everything you said, the SEC has also always had a lot of consistency with many of their big rivalry games and their bye weeks.

For example, UF and UGA always play on Halloween weekend, and always get a bye week the week prior to that game for obvious reasons. The SEC schedules HELP, not hurt, their teams. Fans also like the consistency for planning / travel purposes.

I don’t understand why the ACC doesn’t do this.

Edit: forgot to add that the FCS games are also usually scheduled right before other rivals, either in September or August.
 
The biggest issue with the ACC is a total lack of leadership. Conference has been run by imbeciles for decades. Always behind the 8 ball and zero foresight.
 
I posted something similar recently. To add to everything you said, the SEC has also always had a lot of consistency with many of their big rivalry games and their bye weeks.

For example, UF and UGA always play on Halloween weekend, and always get a bye week the week prior to that game for obvious reasons. The SEC schedules HELP, not hurt, their teams. Fans also like the consistency for planning / travel purposes.

I don’t understand why the ACC doesn’t do this.
Yeah it's embarrassing at this point. I bet if I went back and looked at SEC scheduling over the last 10 years, their 3-4-5 format would be the norm.

You'd think that maaaaybe somebody in the ACC would wonder what the SEC is doing differently and try to copy it.


I took a look at a few random teams in the B1G and Big 12 too.

The Big 12 is just as clueless as the ACC. They might as well just merge into one big clusterfck conference and get it over with.

The B1G on the other hand..

Ohio State: 3 games (BYE) 4 games (BYE) 5 games
Penn State: 3 games (BYE) 4 games (BYE) 5 games
Michigan: 4 games (BYE) 5 games (BYE) 3 games
Oregon: 5 games (BYE) 3 games (BYE) 4 games

USC: 5 games (BYE) 2 games (BYE) 5 games
Illinois: 5 games (BYE) 6 games (BYE) 1 game
Indiana: 7 games (BYE) 2 games (BYE) 3 games

Penn State, OSU, Oregon and Michigan were preseason #2, #3, #7 and #14. Coming into the season, it was pretty safe to assume the B1G would likely get 3 teams from that top group into the playoff. I don't believe for a second that the B1G wasn't looking out for those 4.

Indiana was preseason #20 and defied the odds.. again.
Nobody with a functioning brain took Illinois seriously.
USC was unranked.
 
Maybe if the ACC didn't go out of its way to **** us with ****** officiating at every opportunity, we could have more success. Miami has enough of its own problems getting back on track that we don't need officials to face off against as well.
This.
And it’s not just the SMU game.
It’s not just one season.
It’s every season, almost every game.
 
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