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canecrazy23

canecrazy23

CIS GIF Champion 2021
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If we had recruited the QB position at an elite level after Dorsey left would that have made up for the incompetent coaches we've gone through or would we still have sucked A ZZ?
 
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canecrazy23 said:
If we had recruited the QB position at an elite level after Dorsey left would that have made up for the incompetent coaches we've gone through or would we still have sucked A ZZ?
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Chud left after 2003.

We made Dan Werner OC. Did not work out. Then, after 2 bad Werner years, Coker tried to bring in his buddy Todd Berry. Which UM vetoed, so we rehired Rich Olson for a year, which also did not work out.

Nix was OK, though it woiuld have been nice if his son was about 12 years older and could have signed with Miami.

Whipple was OK (and I think we did sign his son).

Fisch was probably the best OC we've had since Chud.

James Coley and Thomas Brown were not good.

Enos was an unmitigated disaster.

Yes, I would love to recruit the QB position at an elite level, but that rogue's gallery of OCs is not exactly a ringing endorsement for great QBs to come to the U.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Chud left after 2003.

We made Dan Werner OC. Did not work out. Then, after 2 bad Werner years, Coker tried to bring in his buddy Todd Berry. Which UM vetoed, so we rehired Rich Olson for a year, which also did not work out.

Nix was OK, though it woiuld have been nice if his son was about 12 years older and could have signed with Miami.

Whipple was OK (and I think we did sign his son).

Fisch was probably the best OC we've had since Chud.

James Coley and Thomas Brown were not good.

Enos was an unmitigated disaster.

Yes, I would love to recruit the QB position at an elite level, but that rogue's gallery of OCs is not exactly a ringing endorsement for great QBs to come to the U.
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Nix was worse than ok, he fielded units that ranked in the bottom third of the nation (110th and 89th, respectively, in 2007 and 2008) in total offense.
 
canecrazy23 said:
If we had recruited the QB position at an elite level after Dorsey left would that have made up for the incompetent coaches we've gone through or would we still have sucked A ZZ?
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Sure, quality QBs make big difference but the problem is that it takes quality HCs to recruit quality QBs. Howard was about the best ever, a true GOAT of QB recruiting. Kelly, Bernie and Vinny in one class picture is about a good as it gets plus what he did at Bama as OC for the Bear were he got Namath and Stabler.

Berlin would have been NC QB if Coker was half decent. Kid clearly needed to be in the shotgun but Larry kept him under center. We could have ushered in today offenses 20 years ago with Brock. After that we had nothing -- just think that a baseball player delivered the best season since. It still all comes back to the HC.
 
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TheU1986 said:
Nix was worse than ok, he fielded units that ranked in the bottom third of the nation (110th and 89th, respectively, in 2007 and 2008) in total offense.
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So you're going to nitpick one thing in my post, one OC out of a dozen?

Nix came in with a decent prior reputation, he had a better chance than most of those other guys to recruit a good QB (and the theme of the thread is QB recruiting). Nix landed Robert Marve right after he was hired, and he landed THREE quarterbacks (including Jacory Harris) in his second year. That is two consecutive Mr. Football (Florida) winners. The only other Mr. Football winners who have signed with UM were Jammi German and Duke Johnson.

And, yes, Nix's OC stats coulda/woulda/shoulda been a lot better. We went 5-7 in 2007, and outside of the 4 losses to ranked teams, we lost 3 winnable games (at UNC by 6, GaTech by 3, and NC State by 3 in OT). 2007 was a year that we went back and forth between Kyle Wright and Kirby Freeman (though Kirby got us the win at F$U). We went 7-6 in 2008, but we should have won home games against UNC (lost by 4) and F$U (lost by 2).

I agree, Nix's on-field stats were not very good, but his recruiting of QBs was top-notch, so we have to balance out those traits and just give him an "OK" assessment.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
So you're going to nitpick one thing in my post, one OC out of a dozen?

Nix came in with a decent prior reputation, he had a better chance than most of those other guys to recruit a good QB (and the theme of the thread is QB recruiting). Nix landed Robert Marve right after he was hired, and he landed THREE quarterbacks (including Jacory Harris) in his second year. That is two consecutive Mr. Football (Florida) winners. The only other Mr. Football winners who have signed with UM were Jammi German and Duke Johnson.

And, yes, Nix's OC stats coulda/woulda/shoulda been a lot better. We went 5-7 in 2007, and outside of the 4 losses to ranked teams, we lost 3 winnable games (at UNC by 6, GaTech by 3, and NC State by 3 in OT). 2007 was a year that we went back and forth between Kyle Wright and Kirby Freeman (though Kirby got us the win at F$U). We went 7-6 in 2008, but we should have won home games against UNC (lost by 4) and F$U (lost by 2).

I agree, Nix's on-field stats were not very good, but his recruiting of QBs was top-notch, so we have to balance out those traits and just give him an "OK" assessment.
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He recruited 3 QBs, 1 was a JAG, the other a domestic abuser, and Jacory who gave u a nice win agaisnt FSU and not much else

He was horrible
 
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HurricaneHauk said:
He recruited 3 QBs, 1 was a JAG, the other a domestic abuser, and Jacory who gave u a nice win agaisnt FSU and not much else

He was horrible
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While we know how the story turned out, as of the first week of February 2008, Robert Marve, Jacory Harris, Cannon Smith, and Taylor Cook were considered a pretty good 366-day recruiting haul for QBs.

After that, the coaching, development, and discipline may have sucked. But at the time, the recruiting was **** good.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
While we know how the story turned out, as of the first week of February 2008, Robert Marve, Jacory Harris, Cannon Smith, and Taylor Cook were considered a pretty good 366-day recruiting haul for QBs.

After that, the coaching, development, and discipline may have sucked. But at the time, the recruiting was **** good.
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I disagree. Marve and Jacory were relatively highly rated kids but bad evaluations. Smith and Cook were whatever.

Marve probably had the best athletic tools but not the head or commitment. Jacory athletically, arm strength, speed, he just wasn’t that good, and while he had ‘it’ to an extent (guts and broken play creativity), he wasn’t a good game manager. And he clearly wasn’t committed enough, but the culture had gone to **** by then.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
While we know how the story turned out, as of the first week of February 2008, Robert Marve, Jacory Harris, Cannon Smith, and Taylor Cook were considered a pretty good 366-day recruiting haul for QBs.

After that, the coaching, development, and discipline may have sucked. But at the time, the recruiting was **** good.
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And you really give credit for Jacory when 7 of his teammates were coming here?

Cannon Smith was a low 3 star
Taylor Cook was another 3 star, higher rated but still nothing special

Marve was highly sought after
 
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Ethnicsands said:
I disagree. Marve and Jacory were relatively highly rated kids but bad evaluations. Smith and Cook were whatever.

Marve probably had the best athletic tools but not the head or commitment. Jacory athletically, arm strength, speed, he just wasn’t that good, and while he had ‘it’ to an extent (guts and broken play creativity), he wasn’t a good game manager. And he clearly wasn’t committed enough, but the culture had gone to **** by then.
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Oh, good lord (and this is directed at Hurricane Hauk too), please consider the context.

OP starts talking about "recruiting elite QBs".

I list the freaking disastrous string of OCs we've had since Chud, and I point out that our 17 year history of OCs has not been a good one, thus making a "chicken or egg" type question. I happen to think that our OCs and QB coaches, and the fact that we seem to change them every 2 years, is making it VERY HARD to "recruit QBs at an elite level".

Then, because I say that Nix was "OK" (based on a combination of his bad coaching and good recruiting), I get someone nitpicking.

Then, because I say that Marve and Harris was probably the best 366 day recruiting job of the past 17 years, I get people nitpicking the qualities of Marve and Harris, based on what we now know about them.

Again, a bunch of dopey posters, in some effort to weigh in on every point, are missing the point. It's very simple. To just say "Miami should have recruited QB better for the past 17 years" ignores the fact that you can't just will it to happen, you have to look at (and blame) the OCs and QB coaches who have stolen paychecks from Miami for 17 years.

EVEN IF you want to knock Nix/Marve/Harris, it really serves to PROVE my point.

We have cycled through way too many OCs/QB coaches, and too many poor OCs/QB coaches who have NOT gone on to success after leaving Miami. THAT is why we have been terrible with recruiting QBs.
 
HurricaneHauk said:
And you really give credit for Jacory when 7 of his teammates were coming here?

Cannon Smith was a low 3 star
Taylor Cook was another 3 star, higher rated but still nothing special

Marve was highly sought after
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I give credit for SUCCESSFULLY RECRUITING Jacory when the prior year Mr. Football had signed one year earlier.

I also give credit to places like Alabama and Clemson for recruiting top-notch guys each and every year. Doesn't matter if they have HS teammates on the team, or if their girlfriends go there, or if the grew up nearby, or whatever other reason can be invented.

Recruit great players every single year. If you do that, you are a good recruiter, regardless of circumstances.

And regardless of whether some of those players do not pan out.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Oh, good lord (and this is directed at Hurricane Hauk too), please consider the context.

OP starts talking about "recruiting elite QBs".

I list the freaking disastrous string of OCs we've had since Chud, and I point out that our 17 year history of OCs has not been a good one, thus making a "chicken or egg" type question. I happen to think that our OCs and QB coaches, and the fact that we seem to change them every 2 years, is making it VERY HARD to "recruit QBs at an elite level".

Then, because I say that Nix was "OK" (based on a combination of his bad coaching and good recruiting), I get someone nitpicking.

Then, because I say that Marve and Harris was probably the best 366 day recruiting job of the past 17 years, I get people nitpicking the qualities of Marve and Harris, based on what we now know about them.

Again, a bunch of dopey posters, in some effort to weigh in on every point, are missing the point. It's very simple. To just say "Miami should have recruited QB better for the past 17 years" ignores the fact that you can't just will it to happen, you have to look at (and blame) the OCs and QB coaches who have stolen paychecks from Miami for 17 years.

EVEN IF you want to knock Nix/Marve/Harris, it really serves to PROVE my point.

We have cycled through way too many OCs/QB coaches, and too many poor OCs/QB coaches who have NOT gone on to success after leaving Miami. THAT is why we have been terrible with recruiting QBs.
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You are like an old man yelling at clouds. I’m not responsible for your overall theead experience. I made one comment in response to your post I quoted. Agree or not, you’re choice. But the rest of your issues, are your issues.
 
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canecrazy23 said:
If we had recruited the QB position at an elite level after Dorsey left would that have made up for the incompetent coaches we've gone through or would we still have sucked A ZZ?
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Keep Randy Shannon as HC and Miami probably has Teddy Bridgewater at QB. Are you willing to say that firing Shannon was a mistake?
 
canecrazy23 said:
no. I see what you’re saying though.
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Personally I would rather have seen Shannon get a few more years and a chance to have 5 star QB Teddy Bridgewater than firing him for Al Golden. This is part of the problem with Canes fans having no patience or giving a guy a chance to fix his mistakes (see calls for Diaz to get fired after 1 year).

Bridgewater was an elite talent. The defense was still really good during those years, but we didn't have the offense to match. I think Shannon might have won big with TB as QB.
 
Tough pill to swallow but a young Richt after Butch left would’ve kept all of this away.
 
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