What is our base defense?

[fedupcane]

I’d love to read our defensive playbook. Used to be able to find older playbooks online but with iPads it’s really dried up. It feels to me we don’t have a solid, fundamental base defense to rely on.

I legit can’t understand what we do on defense.

The play last night that sums up my frustration was where ETN cut through the B gap after the Hback sealed and pancakes McCloud And then ran for miles. There were three fundamental issues with that play that shouldn’t ever happen in year 6 in a scheme.

1) roche runs way too upfield, opening up a huge lane between the T and G. He cannot be the force player with such an aggressive up the field approach.
2) McCloud neither spills nor forces against the pulling H back. He can be the force player but his alignment is too inside to be able set an edge, and is too close to the LOS. He looks to be more a “scrape to the open gap” here.
3) there is no DB responsible for any run fit to either be the force player Outside of McCloud (Quarters or cover 2) or fill player inside (single high coverage).

You cannot have a play at any level where there is no defined force player, but this happens over and over and over. We get away with it against garbage teams. It bites us against good ones.

Herbstreit mentioned multiple times last night that Miami has issues containing. It’s so unsound and inexcusable for a staff in its 6th season running this defense, and I believe they just don’t teach it or care, as they think they can just tackle for loss their way to good defense. it’s gotta change next year for manny, who I support, to succeed here.

 

[JAYBLAZE]

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

I’d love to read our defensive playbook. Used to be able to find older playbooks online but with iPads it’s really dried up. It feels to me we don’t have a solid, fundamental base defense to rely on.

I legit can’t understand what we do on defense.

The play last night that sums up my frustration was where ETN cut through the B gap after the Hback sealed and pancakes McCloud And then ran for miles. There were three fundamental issues with that play that shouldn’t ever happen in year 6 in a scheme.

1) roche runs way too upfield, opening up a huge lane between the T and G. He cannot be the force player with such an aggressive up the field approach.
2) McCloud neither spills nor forces against the pulling H back. He can be the force player but his alignment is too inside to be able set an edge, and is too close to the LOS. He looks to be more a “scrape to the open gap” here.
3) there is no DB responsible for any run fit to either be the force player Outside of McCloud (Quarters or cover 2) or fill player inside (single high coverage).

You cannot have a play at any level where there is no defined force player, but this happens over and over and over. We get away with it against garbage teams. It bites us against good ones.

Herbstreit mentioned multiple times last night that Miami has issues containing. It’s so unsound and inexcusable for a staff in its 6th season running this defense, and I believe they just don’t teach it or care, as they think they can just tackle for loss their way to good defense. it’s gotta change next year for manny, who I support, to succeed here.

Baker is an average DC. He's neither D’Nofrio nor Brent Venables. Diaz needs to upgrade the DC- what concerns me is that he thinks Baker just needs more time. He's not the dude. The sooner he realizes it, the better. If we're lucky, a school like Georgia State or University of Portland will hire away Baker to be the HC and Diaz will be able to hire a better DC.

 

[fedupcane]

Baker is an average DC. He's neither D’Nofrio nor Brent Venables. Diaz needs to upgrade the DC- what concerns me is that he thinks Baker just needs more time. He's not the dude. The sooner he realizes it, the better. If we're lucky, a school like Georgia State or University of Portland will hire away Baker to be the HC and Diaz will be able to hire a better DC.

While I agree, this getting worked by well coached teams thinks predates Baker, who is running Diaz’s system. it’s a system that eschews fundamental cornerstones of defensive football to try to attack teams and unless we get a new DC who runs something outside of Manny’s system I fear it’s going to be the same frustrations of us looking like a top ten team until we play one and getting boat raced.

 

[skyman]

Seems fundamentally unsound many times and we get beat on alignment alone.. We run a hybrid 4-2-5 as base with a striker in no mans land

 

[ClownGravy]

I mentioned this in the Jaelen Phillips thread and they think I am trolling. There is just no point for an NFL top guy to play in this scheme when it's so undisciplined and disjointed. You don't develop at all in this scheme, but yeah you will have fun and maybe put up some numbers against the Jacksonville States of the world.

 

[Deleted member 26015]

Its a big play defense aimed to create turnovers and just attack nonstop.

Add **** playcalling, poor fundamentals and undisciplined behaviour and you are last in the nation in defending big plays.

 

[fedupcane]

Its a big play defense aimed to create turnovers and just attack nonstop.

Add **** playcalling, poor fundamentals and undisciplined behaviour and you are last in the nation in defending big plays.

What frustrates me is that there are just so many examples of fundamentally sound schemes that also create a ton of turnovers. Would anyone complain about how many turnovers we generated from 2000-2005 playing a very fundamental defense? manny should not marry himself to this system bc it has consistently failed in the big spot. If we switched DCs and systems on Saturday, we’d have beaten the tigers.

 

[Deleted member 26015]

What frustrates me is that there are just so many examples of fundamentally sound schemes that also create a ton of turnovers. Would anyone complain about how many turnovers we generated from 2000-2005 playing a very fundamental defense? manny should not marry himself to this system bc it has consistently failed in the big spot. If we switched DCs and systems on Saturday, we’d have beaten the tigers.

Clemson just hammered us with a fundamentally sound defense. You dont even have to force a boatload of turnovers and tackles for loss.

 

[ClownGravy]

Clemson just hammered us with a fundamentally sound defense. You dont even have to force a boatload of turnovers and tackles for loss.

Miami's defensive scheme was thoroughly exposed by Clemson. They literally showed the entire nation how to beat the Canes defense (and beat it easily). How many 3rd and long conversions? It's a joke defense and if you can't get off the field on 3rd and long with that kind of talent, it needs to be shelved.

 

[Deleted member 26015]

I would love us to adjust to a 3-3-5, preferably to a base defense that has three safeties. Feel like with the athletes at the safety position, its doable. (Think we actually had some of these packages early on vs Clemson, I was surprised)

However, you would need guys at linebacker that have a very wide skillset in terms of athleticism. Florida easily provides the talent to play that; however, you have to recruit it (it makes players like T2 a complete must-have).

Problem is with our defense: The problems are so obviously rooted in the fundamental area, you can use any scheme and it wont work. Just like with the offense, where Lamar Thomas went on Twitter to sum up what this receiving corps needs to do. Spoiler: Pretty much everything a receiver has to do.

 

[252cane]

I would love us to adjust to a 3-3-5, preferably to a base defense that has three safeties. Feel like with the athletes at the safety position, its doable. (Think we actually had some of these packages early on vs Clemson, I was surprised)

However, you would need guys at linebacker that have a very wide skillset in terms of athleticism. Florida easily provides the talent to play that; however, you have to recruit it (it makes players like T2 a complete must-have).

Problem is with our defense: The problems are so obviously rooted in the fundamental area, you can use any scheme and it wont work. Just like with the offense, where Lamar Thomas went on Twitter to sum up what this receiving corps needs to do. Spoiler: Pretty much everything a receiver has to do.

The 4-2-5 is a base defense with 3 safeties.

 

[252cane]

Miami's defensive scheme was thoroughly exposed by Clemson. They literally showed the entire nation how to beat the Canes defense (and beat it easily). How many 3rd and long conversions? It's a joke defense and if you can't get off the field on 3rd and long with that kind of talent, it needs to be shelved.

Clemson didn’t expose it. Its been exposed long before that.

 

[Deleted member 26015]

The 4-2-5 is a base defense with 3 safeties.

Proper three safeties, not two and a striker.

Should have also written "three deep safeties". My mistake.

 

[miamimike305]

Did you see how our whole Dline passed the Oline and not one Mfer thought of turning around and realize it’s a screen!!

 

[FrancisSawyer]

Its a big play defense aimed to create turnovers and just attack nonstop.

Add **** playcalling, poor fundamentals and undisciplined behaviour and you are last in the nation in defending big plays.

I'm a huge fan of defense in general and my personal philosophy when it comes to defense is to be an aggressive and attacking defense that doesn't let up for a second.

Having said that I'm absolutely NOT a fan of Baker and the way he runs this defense. I love aggression and creating havoc but you also have to be smart and have situational awareness. This defense isn't cerebral it is a disorganized, disjointed and completely arbitrary mess! Baker literally just flings random concepts out for no particular reason other than to "change things up". There was a play Coach Macho was talking about where we stuffed them on a second down play by playing our DL straight up. Then the next play Baker calls is a stunt that leaves a huge void/hole for Ettienne to run through and he easily converts on 3rd and long. There was no reason for him to call that. He just did it completely arbitrarily and out of the blue just for the sake of being cute. Baker is a clown. Also I don't buy this mentality that this is just the system and you have to take the good with the bad. Bull****!!!!! There is no excuse for consistently getting gouged against the run. There is no excuse for constantly giving up 3rd and long. We can have an aggressive and attacking defense that creates havoc and causes numerous turnovers and be fundamentally sound. The two concepts are not necessarily mutually exclusive! We we are witnessing is a disaster. It's a total clown show. This is the type of garbage that got Diaz fired at Texas. Don't get me wrong. I like Manny's scheme to a point. However I believe it would/could be a great scheme particularly for us if Diaz would take the time and effort to tweek this defense while putting in gap integrity concepts. It would only take a few minor changes. Another thing is that Baker might be running Manny's scheme but the way he runs it is downright atrocious.

 

[Deleted member 26015]

I'm a huge fan of defense in general and my personal philosophy when it comes to defense is to be an aggressive and attacking defense that doesn't let up for a second.

Having said that I'm absolutely NOT a fan of Baker and the way he runs this defense. I love aggression and creating havoc but you also have to be smart and have situational awareness. This defense isn't cerebral it is a disorganized, disjointed and completely arbitrary mess! Baker literally just flings random concepts out for no particular reason other than to "change things up". There was a play Coach Macho was talking about where we stuffed them on a second down play by playing our DL straight up. Then the next play Baker calls is a stunt that leaves a huge void/hole for Ettienne to run through and he easily converts on 3rd and long. There was no reason for him to call that. He just did it completely arbitrarily and out of the blue just for the sake of being cute. Baker is a clown. Also I don't buy this mentality that this is just the system and you have to take the good with the bad. Bull****!!!!! There is no excuse for consistently getting gouged against the run. There is no excuse for constantly giving up 3rd and long. We can have an aggressive and attacking defense that creates havoc and causes numerous turnovers and be fundamentally sound. The two concepts are not necessarily mutually exclusive! We we are witnessing is a disaster. It's a total clown show. This is the type of garbage that got Diaz fired at Texas. Don't get me wrong. I like Manny's scheme to a point. However I believe it would/could be a great scheme particularly for us if Diaz would take the time and effort to tweek this defense while putting in gap integrity concepts. It would only take a few minor changes. Another thing is that Baker might be running Manny's scheme but the way he runs it is downright atrocious.

I gotta be honest, I dont understand why we are using stunts to defend runs. Stunts are for pass rushing and that only. If you stunt to defend the run, you need linebackers to fill the open gaps, otherwise, they will be huge and teams will exploit it. And our linebackers arent doing the trick here.

Since you mentioned Diaz at Texas: https://www.burntorangenation.com/2...xas-longhorns-todd-orland-defense-line-stunts
From this article: "He loves to blitz, and in his time at Texas, he had issues with players being out of position in run situations because of a blitz." This is exactly whats happening here.

Sam Brooks didnt put Etienne on his butt because Brooks shot the gap and came with everything he had. He read his keys, plugged the open gap and made a tackle for no gain. Added to that: Whats the problem with stopping someone for a gain of 1 or two yards? Why the **** does everything have to be boom or bust? We dont read stuff, we just run with the head towards the wall. It works against inferior competition but if you are up against Clemson, guess what: You are ****ed.

And the fact that we have to install gap integrity makes me cringe to no end. I will post some quotes from a 2016 CanesWarning article that demonstrated what Diaz is all about. My take is in bold: https://caneswarning.com/2016/01/08/breaking-miami-hurricanes-manny-diaz/

"The interior of the defense attacks very aggressively with very little regard for gap integrity. The linebackers have aggressive run reads and immediately shoot gaps." Thats really bad. Its what got him fired at Texas.

"The zone coverage is fairly simplistic, with pattern matching not being used." We ran Cover 2 on a 3rd and long in the second quarter and they had Clemson receivers on both sidelines butt naked. They dropped a TD. Simple zone coverages get exploited in todays football with spread and air raid concepts being specifically designed to exploit zone.

"Diaz goes to about the opposite end of that spectrum that you can. He wants negative plays even if that means giving up chunk plays to the offense." This is the problem right here. Everything is just attack, attack, attack. Its like a matador vs a bull. The bull will run the matador over and kill him, if the matador doesnt do his job. But the bull gets humiliated if the matador plays with him.

"The aggressiveness of the front 7, while exciting, can create massive holes in the run game. Part of Diaz’s teaching is for players to attack where they best think they can make a stop. This can lead to 2 defenders being in one gap, leaving a wide open lane for the running back. Miami will see a significant jump in tackles for loss going forward, but there will be times a running back will bust a huge run on a play that realistically should have been stopped at the line of scrimmage." This was predicted four years ago and this is whats happening.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

I gotta be honest, I dont understand why we are using stunts to defend runs. Stunts are for pass rushing and that only. If you stunt to defend the run, you need linebackers to fill the open gaps, otherwise, they will be huge and teams will exploit it. And our linebackers arent doing the trick here.

Since you mentioned Diaz at Texas: https://www.burntorangenation.com/2...xas-longhorns-todd-orland-defense-line-stunts
From this article: "He loves to blitz, and in his time at Texas, he had issues with players being out of position in run situations because of a blitz." This is exactly whats happening here.

Sam Brooks didnt put Etienne on his butt because Brooks shot the gap and came with everything he had. He read his keys, plugged the open gap and made a tackle for no gain. Added to that: Whats the problem with stopping someone for a gain of 1 or two yards? Why the **** does everything have to be boom or bust? We dont read stuff, we just run with the head towards the wall. It works against inferior competition but if you are up against Clemson, guess what: You are ****ed.

And the fact that we have to install gap integrity makes me cringe to no end. I will post some quotes from a 2016 CanesWarning article that demonstrated what Diaz is all about. My take is in bold: https://caneswarning.com/2016/01/08/breaking-miami-hurricanes-manny-diaz/

"The interior of the defense attacks very aggressively with very little regard for gap integrity. The linebackers have aggressive run reads and immediately shoot gaps." Thats really bad. Its what got him fired at Texas.

"The zone coverage is fairly simplistic, with pattern matching not being used." We ran Cover 2 on a 3rd and long in the second quarter and they had Clemson receivers on both sidelines butt naked. They dropped a TD. Simple zone coverages get exploited in todays football with spread and air raid concepts being specifically designed to exploit zone.

"Diaz goes to about the opposite end of that spectrum that you can. He wants negative plays even if that means giving up chunk plays to the offense." This is the problem right here. Everything is just attack, attack, attack. Its like a matador vs a bull. The bull will run the matador over and kill him, if the matador doesnt do his job. But the bull gets humiliated if the matador plays with him.

"The aggressiveness of the front 7, while exciting, can create massive holes in the run game. Part of Diaz’s teaching is for players to attack where they best think they can make a stop. This can lead to 2 defenders being in one gap, leaving a wide open lane for the running back. Miami will see a significant jump in tackles for loss going forward, but there will be times a running back will bust a huge run on a play that realistically should have been stopped at the line of scrimmage." This was predicted four years ago and this is whats happening.

That's a lot of good stuff but let me just chime in on one aspect of this that I hate. Our zone concepts are ******* trash. We're not pattern matching. We are spot dropping! Just unreal. No wonder there is zero awareness in the secondary. Next time you see a QB complete a pass in the middle of the field turn and run without any of our defenders having any clue you know why.

One more thing. I hate the way Baker runs this scheme but I don't hate the scheme in general. I actually liked the way Diaz ran it as DC. The difference is that Diaz had years to mature and tinker with the scheme. Diaz adjusted his scheme to his players strengths for any particular year. Baker is just lost. I still had certain issues even with Manny running the show but at the end of the day, I could live with those. The 2017 and 2018 defenses were great examples of what Diaz could do with this same scheme that Baker is making a mockery of.

 

[Mnhurricane]

Our plan is blindly attack everything with zero gap or edge set integrity and leave huge spaces open (especially edges and middle of field) every play and hope they don’t notice.

Somehow all the while attacking about as ferociously as a new teddy bear

 

[CDWright40]

I’ve never seen worse LBer play. Ever. McCloud was always pretty horrible and I didn’t understand why everyone thought that he was suddenly going to be good. He is stiff and has horrible instincts often running away from the point of attack. Jennings may be worse than Zac which is really saying something.
Teams beat us with outside zone running plays which expose the LBers. They beat us with misdirection throwbacks which expose the lbers. And of course the beat us with screens that.....you guessed it, expose the lbers. I’d play brooks and Flagg and find reps for cave to see what he’s made of. Get young at WR and LBer right away because the upperclassmen are not going to suddenly get better.