VanGorder or someone like him as DC

[mdhhdm]

Nope. Not a good guy-trust me on this.

Would like to hear this rationale. Personal thing? Because it's unlikely an issue with his Xs and Os.

Good coach, the rest________________

 

[cane since birth]

Whats wrong with uncle rico?

 

[Cribby]

He looks like a guy who whacks off next to a school bus

 

[LuCane]

Why would you want this DC. The last 2 years if you look at scoring d, total d, sacks, tackles for loss and interceptions, Miami was better in 7 out of 10. He is no better than Dorito. Aim higher.

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

 

[LuCane]

Nope. Not a good guy-trust me on this.

Would like to hear this rationale. Personal thing? Because it's unlikely an issue with his Xs and Os.

Good coach, the rest________________

Not a clue about him personally. I like his Xs and Os.

 

[LuCane]

Well I guess my whole single gap 3-4 opining is not bc I want that defense, or I like it or anything.

It's bc it works and in the case of Dave Aranda, a potential DC for us, it is elite. And therefore my aim was to defend this, b/c I'd rather have a Dave Aranda 3-4 and be ranked #1 in defense nationally, than a Jim Leavitt 4-3 and be ranked 90th.

My favorite kind of D coordinator is the one that stops offenses the best.

You know very well that's not what I'm suggesting. I don't get married to particular candidates. I don't know any of them. I simply don't care.

We both want the same thing. While a look at what they've produced (especially recently) is critical, it's about projecting what a candidate would do here.

My favorite kind of D-Coordinator is the one that would stop offenses as a Canes D-Coordinator.

 

[KCcane]

Why would you want this DC. The last 2 years if you look at scoring d, total d, sacks, tackles for loss and interceptions, Miami was better in 7 out of 10. He is no better than Dorito. Aim higher.

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

 

[LuCane]

Why would you want this DC. The last 2 years if you look at scoring d, total d, sacks, tackles for loss and interceptions, Miami was better in 7 out of 10. He is no better than Dorito. Aim higher.

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

Context. Why has he produced less than optimal results recently? Could it be that he had a front that had been recruited to implement a 2-gap system? Could it be that he just transitioned guys suited to play a totally different type of [strength] system to an upfield system? Could it be for another reason? Part of the reason, surely, is that he can be too complicated. I mentioned that. I don't think there are perfect candidates.

Thanks for letting me know that concepts mean nothing without results. That wasn't my point, and you probably know that (or I hope you do).

 

[mdhhdm]

Nope. Not a good guy-trust me on this.

Would like to hear this rationale. Personal thing? Because it's unlikely an issue with his Xs and Os.

Good coach, the rest________________

Not a clue about him personally. I like his Xs and Os.

He is so totally opposite Richt character-wise that I find it inconceivable that CMR would rehire him.

 

[KCcane]

Why would you want this DC. The last 2 years if you look at scoring d, total d, sacks, tackles for loss and interceptions, Miami was better in 7 out of 10. He is no better than Dorito. Aim higher.

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

Context. Why has he produced less than optimal results recently? Could it be that he had a front that had been recruited to implement a 2-gap system? Could it be that he just transitioned guys suited to play a totally different type of [strength] system to an upfield system? Could it be for another reason? Part of the reason, surely, is that he can be too complicated. I mentioned that. I don't think there are perfect candidates.

Thanks for letting me know that concepts mean nothing without results. That wasn't my point, and you probably know that (or I hope you do).

This is one of the reason he would not be a fit. This is from 2 days ago in the Chicago Tribune.

VanGorder's schemes are complicated, tough to learn in the limited practice time available to college players.

But VanGorder, 56, didn't swallow that as an excuse. Disagreed, even, as the Irish prepare to face Ohio State in Friday's Fiesta Bowl.

"You have to be pretty smart to play in our defense," he said. "We're multiple in what we do. But if I looked at those plays that bring about the term inconsistency, they wouldn't involve anything that was complicated.

 

[FullyERicht]

Well I guess my whole single gap 3-4 opining is not bc I want that defense, or I like it or anything.

It's bc it works and in the case of Dave Aranda, a potential DC for us, it is elite. And therefore my aim was to defend this, b/c I'd rather have a Dave Aranda 3-4 and be ranked #1 in defense nationally, than a Jim Leavitt 4-3 and be ranked 90th.

My favorite kind of D coordinator is the one that stops offenses the best.

You know very well that's not what I'm suggesting. I don't get married to particular candidates. I don't know any of them. I simply don't care.

We both want the same thing. While a look at what they've produced (especially recently) is critical, it's about projecting what a candidate would do here.

My favorite kind of D-Coordinator is the one that would stop offenses as a Canes D-Coordinator.

Then why would you want him though, Lu? Hasn't fielded even close to a top defense in nearly 15 years. He's been thoroughly mediocre his entire career.

Am I missing something about his results?

 

[LuCane]

Why would you want this DC. The last 2 years if you look at scoring d, total d, sacks, tackles for loss and interceptions, Miami was better in 7 out of 10. He is no better than Dorito. Aim higher.

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

Context. Why has he produced less than optimal results recently? Could it be that he had a front that had been recruited to implement a 2-gap system? Could it be that he just transitioned guys suited to play a totally different type of [strength] system to an upfield system? Could it be for another reason? Part of the reason, surely, is that he can be too complicated. I mentioned that. I don't think there are perfect candidates.

Thanks for letting me know that concepts mean nothing without results. That wasn't my point, and you probably know that (or I hope you do).

This is one of the reason he would not be a fit. This is from 2 days ago in the Chicago Tribune.

VanGorder's schemes are complicated, tough to learn in the limited practice time available to college players.

But VanGorder, 56, didn't swallow that as an excuse. Disagreed, even, as the Irish prepare to face Ohio State in Friday's Fiesta Bowl.

"You have to be pretty smart to play in our defense," he said. "We're multiple in what we do. But if I looked at those plays that bring about the term inconsistency, they wouldn't involve anything that was complicated.

That's part of what I stated (bolded and underlined). It goes with everything I've seen in his defenses. Also, the fact he spent a lot of time in the NFL. Not complicated in "react" way Dorito is, but he just has so many packages.

It's funny. The difference between the attributes/values needed to play in VanGorder's defense really aren't all that different than Aranda's defense. One is 3-4; the other 4-3. But, you're looking at similar position types and attributes.

 

[FullyERicht]

Why would you want this DC. The last 2 years if you look at scoring d, total d, sacks, tackles for loss and interceptions, Miami was better in 7 out of 10. He is no better than Dorito. Aim higher.

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

Context. Why has he produced less than optimal results recently? Could it be that he had a front that had been recruited to implement a 2-gap system? Could it be that he just transitioned guys suited to play a totally different type of [strength] system to an upfield system? Could it be for another reason? Part of the reason, surely, is that he can be too complicated. I mentioned that. I don't think there are perfect candidates.

Thanks for letting me know that concepts mean nothing without results. That wasn't my point, and you probably know that (or I hope you do).

It's been everywhere though. He stunk at AU, stinks at ND, despite it being his third year. Stunk with the Falcons. He just hasn't ever had any really good seasons to fall back on.

 

[LuCane]

Well I guess my whole single gap 3-4 opining is not bc I want that defense, or I like it or anything.

It's bc it works and in the case of Dave Aranda, a potential DC for us, it is elite. And therefore my aim was to defend this, b/c I'd rather have a Dave Aranda 3-4 and be ranked #1 in defense nationally, than a Jim Leavitt 4-3 and be ranked 90th.

My favorite kind of D coordinator is the one that stops offenses the best.

You know very well that's not what I'm suggesting. I don't get married to particular candidates. I don't know any of them. I simply don't care.

We both want the same thing. While a look at what they've produced (especially recently) is critical, it's about projecting what a candidate would do here.

My favorite kind of D-Coordinator is the one that would stop offenses as a Canes D-Coordinator.

Then why would you want him though, Lu? Hasn't fielded even close to a top defense in nearly 15 years. He's been thoroughly mediocre his entire career.

Am I missing something about his results?

I want someone who looks for the attributes he seeks/needs in his players and who values aggression, generally. Like I said to Kc above, there isn't really THAT much of a difference between what you see in Aranda and what you get from VanGorder's 4-3 Over/Under fronts. We've talked about this in your thread; just in a different way.

The guy is a package freak who probably spent too much time in the NFL. He went to ND - previously built for 2-gapping - and is transitioning. I think he's the type who can get good results in an opportunity here.

 

[FullyERicht]

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

Context. Why has he produced less than optimal results recently? Could it be that he had a front that had been recruited to implement a 2-gap system? Could it be that he just transitioned guys suited to play a totally different type of [strength] system to an upfield system? Could it be for another reason? Part of the reason, surely, is that he can be too complicated. I mentioned that. I don't think there are perfect candidates.

Thanks for letting me know that concepts mean nothing without results. That wasn't my point, and you probably know that (or I hope you do).

This is one of the reason he would not be a fit. This is from 2 days ago in the Chicago Tribune.

VanGorder's schemes are complicated, tough to learn in the limited practice time available to college players.

But VanGorder, 56, didn't swallow that as an excuse. Disagreed, even, as the Irish prepare to face Ohio State in Friday's Fiesta Bowl.

"You have to be pretty smart to play in our defense," he said. "We're multiple in what we do. But if I looked at those plays that bring about the term inconsistency, they wouldn't involve anything that was complicated.

That's part of what I stated (bolded and underlined). It goes with everything I've seen in his defenses. Also, the fact he spent a lot of time in the NFL. Not complicated in "react" way Dorito is, but he just has so many packages.

It's funny. The difference between the attributes/values needed to play in VanGorder's defense really aren't all that different than Aranda's defense. One is 3-4; the other 4-3. But, you're looking at similar position types and attributes.

Except Aranda came in and took a 4-3 team, transitioned it to 3-4 in one offseason, and isntantly had a top 10 defense.

Vangorden came into a 3-4 defense that was 8th in the nation, and they haven't sniffed the top 25 defensively since.

 

[KCcane]

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

Context. Why has he produced less than optimal results recently? Could it be that he had a front that had been recruited to implement a 2-gap system? Could it be that he just transitioned guys suited to play a totally different type of [strength] system to an upfield system? Could it be for another reason? Part of the reason, surely, is that he can be too complicated. I mentioned that. I don't think there are perfect candidates.

Thanks for letting me know that concepts mean nothing without results. That wasn't my point, and you probably know that (or I hope you do).

This is one of the reason he would not be a fit. This is from 2 days ago in the Chicago Tribune.

VanGorder's schemes are complicated, tough to learn in the limited practice time available to college players.

But VanGorder, 56, didn't swallow that as an excuse. Disagreed, even, as the Irish prepare to face Ohio State in Friday's Fiesta Bowl.

"You have to be pretty smart to play in our defense," he said. "We're multiple in what we do. But if I looked at those plays that bring about the term inconsistency, they wouldn't involve anything that was complicated.

That's part of what I stated (bolded and underlined). It goes with everything I've seen in his defenses. Also, the fact he spent a lot of time in the NFL. Not complicated in "react" way Dorito is, but he just has so many packages.

It's funny. The difference between the attributes/values needed to play in VanGorder's defense really aren't all that different than Aranda's defense. One is 3-4; the other 4-3. But, you're looking at similar position types and attributes.

I'm just saying I don't like BVG. It has nothing to do with Aranda. I love Don Browns version of the 4-6, Dantonio's 4-3, Todd Orlando's 3-4, Rocky Long's 3-3-5 and Aranda's 3-4 etc. He just hasn't produced in the last 15 years and I am not impressed. I want a DC who plays great defense is all I care about.

 

[FullyERicht]

VanGorder is based on playing multiple defenses within his one scheme. And that's fine and good. But it gets mediocre results. It's his third season there and the results are still poor. If he comes here, he'd have to do the same transition. So the first three years are throw away years for this guy? No college coach should take that long to implement a new system. It's what people excused Golden and Dono about.

 

[GreatCane]

I doubt he would leave ND by choice. His son was a sophomore on the team this year. He's good with d linemen and linebackers, but bad with db's.

 

[FullyERicht]

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

Context. Why has he produced less than optimal results recently? Could it be that he had a front that had been recruited to implement a 2-gap system? Could it be that he just transitioned guys suited to play a totally different type of [strength] system to an upfield system? Could it be for another reason? Part of the reason, surely, is that he can be too complicated. I mentioned that. I don't think there are perfect candidates.

Thanks for letting me know that concepts mean nothing without results. That wasn't my point, and you probably know that (or I hope you do).

This is one of the reason he would not be a fit. This is from 2 days ago in the Chicago Tribune.

VanGorder's schemes are complicated, tough to learn in the limited practice time available to college players.

But VanGorder, 56, didn't swallow that as an excuse. Disagreed, even, as the Irish prepare to face Ohio State in Friday's Fiesta Bowl.

"You have to be pretty smart to play in our defense," he said. "We're multiple in what we do. But if I looked at those plays that bring about the term inconsistency, they wouldn't involve anything that was complicated.

That's part of what I stated (bolded and underlined). It goes with everything I've seen in his defenses. Also, the fact he spent a lot of time in the NFL. Not complicated in "react" way Dorito is, but he just has so many packages.

It's funny. The difference between the attributes/values needed to play in VanGorder's defense really aren't all that different than Aranda's defense. One is 3-4; the other 4-3. But, you're looking at similar position types and attributes.

I'm just saying I don't like BVG. It has nothing to do with Aranda. I love Don Browns version of the 4-6, Dantonio's 4-3, Todd Orlando's 3-4, Rocky Long's 3-3-5 and Aranda's 3-4 etc. He just hasn't produced in the last 15 years and I am not impressed. I want a DC who plays great defense is all I care about.

Post more please. Amen to all.

 

[LuCane]

Why would you want this DC. The last 2 years if you look at scoring d, total d, sacks, tackles for loss and interceptions, Miami was better in 7 out of 10. He is no better than Dorito. Aim higher.

To compare him to Dorito is everything I need to know about this discussion.

He can have the best Xs and Os in football, but if he doesn't produce results who cares. Concepts mean nothing if you cannot put them into practice.

Context. Why has he produced less than optimal results recently? Could it be that he had a front that had been recruited to implement a 2-gap system? Could it be that he just transitioned guys suited to play a totally different type of [strength] system to an upfield system? Could it be for another reason? Part of the reason, surely, is that he can be too complicated. I mentioned that. I don't think there are perfect candidates.

Thanks for letting me know that concepts mean nothing without results. That wasn't my point, and you probably know that (or I hope you do).

It's been everywhere though. He stunk at AU, stinks at ND, despite it being his third year. Stunk with the Falcons. He just hasn't ever had any really good seasons to fall back on.

He was at AU for a cup of coffee (one year with Chizik).

He's definitely struggled at ND more than I expected him to, so I'll concede that one.

Atlanta:

During VanGorder's stint with the Falcons, the organization achieved unprecedented heights, posting four consecutive winning seasons, a franchise first, including playoff appearances in 2008, 2010 and 2011. His defenses consistently showed marked improvements along the way.
Helping the Falcons to a 10-6 regular season record in 2011, VanGorder's defense finished the regular season second in the NFL in red zone defense, sixth in rushing defense (97.0 ypg), and 12th in total defense (333.6 ypg).
In 2010, the Falcons defense finished 10th in the NFL in rushing defense allowing 105.9 yards per game, which ranked fifth in the NFC. The run defense was not the only part of the defense that showed improvement in 2010. VanGorder's defense ranked in the top five in the NFL in scoring defense (18.0, 5th), turnover differential (+14, 3rd) and interceptions (22, 4th), marking highs for VanGorder's defense during his tenure.