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[Cane Dynasty]

Kaaya sold play-fakes well, but opposing teams soon realized his lower-body limitations, and decided the “run” part of Richt’s run-pass option plays wasn’t, well, an option. It was either hand it off to a running back, or throw it.

This is not necessarily correct. The run is the HANDOFF OPTION. It's NOT the read-option. Yes, some plays and teams use a third option for a QB run in the RPO. Not surprisingly, there is still massive confusion this concept:

I know we've been over this ad nausem but why would'nt coaches make every single RPO be a RB-QB-WR triple option?

Why intentionally limit yourself to only RB-WR when you don't have to? Seems very dogmatic/bullheaded or short sighted.

I'll hang up and listen.

ETA: Seriously @LuCane @Coach Macho, Why would any smart coach intentionally limit their chances for success?

Because it's more complicated than just bypassing an extra option. You're balancing an RPO call and its elements with the rule of blockers downfield. So when you're designing the triple option version of an RPO play, you're also changing certain things with the execution. For example, I've seen Auburn and Clemson run an RPO play where there's a (1) fake/check to the RB, (2) QB begins to run, (3) then throws it outside to a WR. Auburn did this in the national championship game a few years ago. Deshaun Watson did this multiple times.

That pass option really just is an extension of the traditional pitch concept from a different initial set and run call. They also are probably optioning off of DE, which makes it look like a read-option play with a pass option tagged on. You see, the types of RPO we see in the NFL and in a lot of college teams are about making a quick decision on a defender who has to decide between pass coverage and run support. That defender is "hanging." If what you want at the end of that quick decision is the QB to run, what you're talking about is more like a scramble than a designed run.

There's a balance between pushing WRs downfield on RPOs and testing whether officials call illegal man downfield. More in college than in NFL, but still something to consider. The insane confusion stems from fans/media generally looking at an outcome of a play (e.g. QB run) instead of the function behind it. In other words, *what defender* is the target of the offense's "option." I still don't believe the RPO is the foundation for a good offense.

I'm a defense guy, but I think your inside run game is where everything should be rooted. Whether you're calling inside-zone or power plays, what scares me most as a defender is having an offense grind you to death. Therefore, even if you're running RPOs, that hanging defender is leaning forward heavily and supporting the run, which then opens the routes in his space. Adding another option on top of it is not as worrisome as just getting zipped with a quick slant pass. This is seemingly the inverse philosophy of Coach D'Onofrio and Golden while here, who seemed terrified and would passively allow offenses to march up and down the field as they protected from big plays and waited for mistakes.

I think everyone is making it way more complex than it has to be. Which is typical for most football coaches.

There were countless times last season where it appears that if Kaayak were coached to make that 3rd read..ie QB run..even his slow *** could have made the offense much more effective. Even 2 steps and fall forward would have been much better than what we were dealing with.

Why wouldn't you just coach your QB to make that 3rd option automatic? You don't have to change any of the play. Just add one more read for the QB to take off if the first 2 are taken away so he doesn't hesitate and panic.

 

[LuCane]

I think everyone is making it way more complex than it has to be. Which is typical for most football coaches.

There were countless times last season where it appears that if Kaayak were coached to make that 3rd read..ie QB run..even his slow *** could have made the offense much more effective. Even 2 steps and fall forward would have been much better than what we were dealing with.

Why wouldn't you just coach your QB to make that 3rd option automatic? You don't have to change any of the play. Just add one more read for the QB to take off if the first 2 are taken away so he doesn't hesitate and panic.

What you're describing is essentially a scramble, no? I mean, if any pass play is called and there's nothing there, the QB has the right to take off after his pass isn't there. In the RPO, if his run or pass arent there, you're basically saying the QB should move his ***. Agreed.
That's different than a designed triple option.

 

[Cane Dynasty]

I think everyone is making it way more complex than it has to be. Which is typical for most football coaches.

There were countless times last season where it appears that if Kaayak were coached to make that 3rd read..ie QB run..even his slow *** could have made the offense much more effective. Even 2 steps and fall forward would have been much better than what we were dealing with.

Why wouldn't you just coach your QB to make that 3rd option automatic? You don't have to change any of the play. Just add one more read for the QB to take off if the first 2 are taken away so he doesn't hesitate and panic.

What you're describing is essentially a scramble, no? I mean, if any pass play is called and there's nothing there, the QB has the right to take off after his pass isn't there. In the RPO, if his run or pass arent there, you're basically saying the QB should move his ***. Agreed.
That's different than a designed triple option.

please see the following porst

 

[Cane Dynasty]

I think everyone is making it way more complex than it has to be. Which is typical for most football coaches.

There were countless times last season where it appears that if Kaayak were coached to make that 3rd read..ie QB run..even his slow *** could have made the offense much more effective. Even 2 steps and fall forward would have been much better than what we were dealing with.

Why wouldn't you just coach your QB to make that 3rd option automatic? You don't have to change any of the play. Just add one more read for the QB to take off if the first 2 are taken away so he doesn't hesitate and panic.

What you're describing is essentially a scramble, no? I mean, if any pass play is called and there's nothing there, the QB has the right to take off after his pass isn't there. In the RPO, if his run or pass arent there, you're basically saying the QB should move his ***. Agreed.
That's different than a designed triple option.

So then why can't it be a designed triple option? Makes no sense why it has to be an either or situation.

Why does this guy get what I'm saying and no one else does? This was just the first example I pulled up. I'll go look for more.

"Another component to our Zone Read Choice package is a true Triple Option look. In this case, the options are the give read of the Inside Zone, QB pull, or throw the Bubble (which is the pitch phase). When called, our QB does not have any pre-snap read. Like any Triple Option, he has post-snap reads of the dive and pitch keys. Although we vary who our dive key may be, our QB is taught to think “give.” If he pulls, his eyes go to the pitch key. If the pitch key plays the QB, he will “pitch” the ball, which is throwing the Bubble............
The final aspect to our Zone Read Choice package is the coupling of a Quick Game concept on the back side with IZ on the play side. We will run this as both a Choice (pre-snap read as referenced above) and an Option (post-snap triple option read). We can call any of our Quick concepts (Hitch, Slant, Stick, etc.) for either, which has enhanced both our Inside Zone and efficiency at the quick passing game. The QB reads and rules for the perimeter and box players are exactly the same as what has been previously described; consequently, we have minimized the chance of slowing down our players with too much information. For example, “Choice-Slant” tells our back side, perimeter players to execute our Slant Concept, all box players and receivers to the play side to execute Inside Zone. Just like the earlier concepts, it is our QB’s job to put us in the best play based on both what he is seeing before and during the play."

https://www.xandolabs.com/index.php...2488:zone-read-choice-rpo&catid=94&Itemid=162

 

[LuCane]

I think everyone is making it way more complex than it has to be. Which is typical for most football coaches.

There were countless times last season where it appears that if Kaayak were coached to make that 3rd read..ie QB run..even his slow *** could have made the offense much more effective. Even 2 steps and fall forward would have been much better than what we were dealing with.

Why wouldn't you just coach your QB to make that 3rd option automatic? You don't have to change any of the play. Just add one more read for the QB to take off if the first 2 are taken away so he doesn't hesitate and panic.

What you're describing is essentially a scramble, no? I mean, if any pass play is called and there's nothing there, the QB has the right to take off after his pass isn't there. In the RPO, if his run or pass arent there, you're basically saying the QB should move his ***. Agreed.
That's different than a designed triple option.

So then why can't it be a designed triple option? Makes no sense why it has to be an either or situation.

Ha. I'm not sure I'm following. I explained above an example of a designed triple option from the RPO game. It can be designed that way and is already used.

However, you asked why can't all the RPOs be designed triple options. My answer is you seem to be asking for a scramble from certain RPO plays no different than a QB taking off if a regular pass play doesn't work out. Remember, the "design" of the play is a run. The OL are literally run blocking for the "R" (e.g. RB handoff). The "P" option is based on numbers in the box, leverage and whether a defender being optioned off plays said "R" or falls back to play the "P." If neither of those options are there, you are asking the QB to scramble as an additional option.

 

[LuCane]

I think everyone is making it way more complex than it has to be. Which is typical for most football coaches.

There were countless times last season where it appears that if Kaayak were coached to make that 3rd read..ie QB run..even his slow *** could have made the offense much more effective. Even 2 steps and fall forward would have been much better than what we were dealing with.

Why wouldn't you just coach your QB to make that 3rd option automatic? You don't have to change any of the play. Just add one more read for the QB to take off if the first 2 are taken away so he doesn't hesitate and panic.

What you're describing is essentially a scramble, no? I mean, if any pass play is called and there's nothing there, the QB has the right to take off after his pass isn't there. In the RPO, if his run or pass arent there, you're basically saying the QB should move his ***. Agreed.
That's different than a designed triple option.

So then why can't it be a designed triple option? Makes no sense why it has to be an either or situation.

Why does this guy get what I'm saying and no one else does? This was just the first example I pulled up. I'll go look for more.

"Another component to our Zone Read Choice package is a true Triple Option look. In this case, the options are the give read of the Inside Zone, QB pull, or throw the Bubble (which is the pitch phase). When called, our QB does not have any pre-snap read. Like any Triple Option, he has post-snap reads of the dive and pitch keys. Although we vary who our dive key may be, our QB is taught to think “give.” If he pulls, his eyes go to the pitch key. If the pitch key plays the QB, he will “pitch” the ball, which is throwing the Bubble............

LMAO. You just copied and pasted basically the same explanation I gave about the Auburn play. It's a zone-read with a bubble at the end. Remember, zone-read (typically optioning off a DE) is NOT necessarily the same as an RPO optioning off an OLB or Nickel. Here's what I wrote in the first response to your question:

For example, I've seen Auburn and Clemson run an RPO play where there's a (1) fake/check to the RB, (2) QB begins to run, (3) then throws it outside to a WR. Auburn did this in the national championship game a few years ago. Deshaun Watson did this multiple times.

That pass option really just is an extension of the traditional pitch concept from a different initial set and run call. They also are probably optioning off of DE, which makes it look like a read-option play with a pass option tagged on.

My mistake is calling the classic zone-read (with just the QB and RB optioning off the DE) the read-option (which is the QB and RB optioning off the DE PLUS a pitch option). Didn't use precise enough terminology.

 

[Cane Dynasty]

I think everyone is making it way more complex than it has to be. Which is typical for most football coaches.

There were countless times last season where it appears that if Kaayak were coached to make that 3rd read..ie QB run..even his slow *** could have made the offense much more effective. Even 2 steps and fall forward would have been much better than what we were dealing with.

Why wouldn't you just coach your QB to make that 3rd option automatic? You don't have to change any of the play. Just add one more read for the QB to take off if the first 2 are taken away so he doesn't hesitate and panic.

What you're describing is essentially a scramble, no? I mean, if any pass play is called and there's nothing there, the QB has the right to take off after his pass isn't there. In the RPO, if his run or pass arent there, you're basically saying the QB should move his ***. Agreed.
That's different than a designed triple option.

So then why can't it be a designed triple option? Makes no sense why it has to be an either or situation.

Why does this guy get what I'm saying and no one else does? This was just the first example I pulled up. I'll go look for more.

"Another component to our Zone Read Choice package is a true Triple Option look. In this case, the options are the give read of the Inside Zone, QB pull, or throw the Bubble (which is the pitch phase). When called, our QB does not have any pre-snap read. Like any Triple Option, he has post-snap reads of the dive and pitch keys. Although we vary who our dive key may be, our QB is taught to think “give.” If he pulls, his eyes go to the pitch key. If the pitch key plays the QB, he will “pitch” the ball, which is throwing the Bubble............

LMAO. You just copied and pasted basically the same explanation I gave about the Auburn play. It's a zone-read with a bubble at the end. Remember, zone-read (typically optioning off a DE) is NOT necessarily the same as an RPO optioning off an OLB or Nickel.

Did you read the part about the choice slant?

 

[Cane Dynasty]

Actually the more I go and look at it, it seems like **** near everyone on the planet that runs RPO runs it the way described above.


Why the fvck are we the only ones that have decided to take the QB run out of the equation?

 

[LuCane]

What you're describing is essentially a scramble, no? I mean, if any pass play is called and there's nothing there, the QB has the right to take off after his pass isn't there. In the RPO, if his run or pass arent there, you're basically saying the QB should move his ***. Agreed.
That's different than a designed triple option.

So then why can't it be a designed triple option? Makes no sense why it has to be an either or situation.

Why does this guy get what I'm saying and no one else does? This was just the first example I pulled up. I'll go look for more.

"Another component to our Zone Read Choice package is a true Triple Option look. In this case, the options are the give read of the Inside Zone, QB pull, or throw the Bubble (which is the pitch phase). When called, our QB does not have any pre-snap read. Like any Triple Option, he has post-snap reads of the dive and pitch keys. Although we vary who our dive key may be, our QB is taught to think “give.” If he pulls, his eyes go to the pitch key. If the pitch key plays the QB, he will “pitch” the ball, which is throwing the Bubble............

LMAO. You just copied and pasted basically the same explanation I gave about the Auburn play. It's a zone-read with a bubble at the end. Remember, zone-read (typically optioning off a DE) is NOT necessarily the same as an RPO optioning off an OLB or Nickel.

Did you read the part about the choice slant?

Yes. And, I edited my post for you. Again, the key is what defender is being option'd off.

When Kaaya was running RPO, he was not running a zone-read against the DE or zone-read-option.

 

[LuCane]

Actually the more I go and look at it, it seems like **** near everyone on the planet that runs RPO runs it the way described above.


Why the fvck are we the only ones that have decided to take the QB run out of the equation?

Not at all, man. Please closely look at the player being option'd off (DE vs OLB/Nickel).

 

[Cane Dynasty]

Actually the more I go and look at it, it seems like **** near everyone on the planet that runs RPO runs it the way described above.


Why the fvck are we the only ones that have decided to take the QB run out of the equation?

Not at all, man. Please closely look at the player being option'd off (DE vs OLB/Nickel).

Everyone that I am looking at reads both the end and the Nickle/Rover.

Take this basic HS corch for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Cy2qWwhbo

Looks like one is a pre-snap and one is after snap.

 

[LuCane]

Actually the more I go and look at it, it seems like **** near everyone on the planet that runs RPO runs it the way described above.


Why the fvck are we the only ones that have decided to take the QB run out of the equation?

Not at all, man. Please closely look at the player being option'd off (DE vs OLB/Nickel).

Everyone that I am looking at reads both the end and the Nickle/Rover.

Take this basic HS corch for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Cy2qWwhbo

Looks like one is a pre-snap and one is after snap.

Doesn't he talk about exactly the play described above? Zone-read to bubble pass? His QBs make a pre-snap and post-snap read depending on where there's leverage, correct? Are we talking passed each other? You cannot option off two defenders simultaneously. Here are 4+ straight minutes of RPO the way you mentioned you haven't seen it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1veNE2af7E

Here are 5+ straight minutes with better, more accurate explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qyFtwFVhK0

Particularly pay attention to the post-snap RPO explanation.

 

[Coach Macho]

Forgive me fellas, I just hopped in the thread and skimmed through quickly...but are yall referring to attaching a zone/read element to the RPO?

 

[ChosenOne]

Njoku going first round not looking to good. NYG, GB, and BUF are the only one that really need a TE.

 

[ChosenOne]

Dolphins need to draft Foster