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UM's Plan To Reopen

MrMachete said:
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NC_Canes_11 said:
What is missing from the the conversation around Fauci is more than one opinion of him can be right. People who believe he has everyone’s health in mind can be right, but people who don’t want to listen to him bc they want to go back to work to feed their family can also be right. This isnt black and white. It’s more than fair to criticize someone who has no accountability to voters. He wasn’t elected and he doesn’t seem to be worried about the financial side of these lockdowns. No matter what side of this you’re on, the only people who were 100% right are the ones who said unemployment would skyrocket.
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Your welcome.
 
JD08 said:
I've been polite and respectful this whole conversation. You've gotten more upset with each post and your responses reflect that. I've also never claimed to be a rugged individualist or admire any president, but since you're fond of strawmen...

If you really want to push the one size fits all approach, then let's go there. Maybe the federal government require that nursing home patients who test positive can't return back to the nursing home. Might as well mandate that all public transportation vehicles get disinfected daily.

It isn't the lack of a national policy thats the problem. It's mismanagement at the state level.
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Careful he'll report you.

And then Inday will give you "points" when they "get to you".

😀
 
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The Franchise said:
The testing is perfect. Not as perfect as the letter but perfect. The hoax of a virus was gone in April just as our supreme leader promised it would be, so any further quibbling over testing is completely unnecessary.

Here's but a few excerpts from his eminency:

On Jan. 22, asked by a CNBC reporter whether there were “worries about a pandemic,” the president replied: “No, not at all. We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

On Feb. 26, at a White House news conference, commenting on the country’s first reported cases: “We’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.”

On Feb. 27, at a White House meeting: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

On March 7, standing next to President Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil at Mar-a-Lago, his club in Palm Beach, Fla., when asked if he was concerned that the virus was spreading closer to Washington: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, I’m not. No, we’ve done a great job.”

On March 16, in the White House briefing room, warning that the outbreak would “wash” away this summer: “So it could be right in that period of time where it, I say, wash — it washes through. Other people don’t like that term. But where it washes through.”
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He isn't super quick on his feet.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Breaking down both of your posts, we are in agreement on about 80-85%. Where we do disagree can be summed up fairly easily.

Your first post:

First, like you, I don't trust the Chinese either. Long history of insular thinking, lack of sharing, and out-and-out dishonesty. I was JOKINGLY trying to point out Trump's comments about Chinese transparency.

As far as WHEN the Chinese knew anything, you are arguing October, I am citing November (from prior articles I've read). At most, you and I differ by one month. Therefore, the question becomes whether it was negligence/stupidity (the Chinese really didn't know what they were dealing with) vs. bad intent (the Chinese lied about it to purposely infect the world). Or, the more likely explanation, they didn't want to acknowledge that they had a problem on their hands, so they tried to deal with it for a month (or two). Ultimately, you have to analyze the simple concept of "if this was some intentional desire to lie to the world, why did the Chinese government allow the December disclosure to WHO". We are not talking about a year-long cover-up. We are talking about a 6-10 week time period, between when ANYONE in China had any clue that they had a problem until the ultimate disclosure of the problem to WHO.

Finally, in your first post, you state that you don't blame anyone in the US for "Covid 19 and the response". And that's nice. But that conclusion ignores the fact that South Korea, with just as much "hey, we don't know what we have on our hands", took a much more pro-active and aggressive approach. So, yeah, maybe Fauci was saying "no problem guys" for a little while, but that runs counter to what WHO did (warn the world, genome-type the virus, send out the blueprint for the testing kit) and that runs counter to what South Korea did.

And at a certain point, you can't divorce the political reality from what actually happened. WHY would Fauci say "no problem guys". Was it because he tried to say something and the entire administration ignored him? This is a guy who has served under multiple presidents, of both parties. Obama's 8 years involved 3 separate pandemics. So Fauci was just completely wrong? Or did he have pushback in a political sense?

Now, let's move on to your second post.

I won't even address the part of your second post above the photo. Again, you are working overtime to NOT blame the administration. That is your prerogative.

Below the photo, all of the stuff about South Korea is legit.

So ask yourself the REAL question.

Why did South Korea act? Why did the US not act? We can COMPLETELY agree that we would have been far better off doing what South Korea did. Do you think that China secretly gave South Korea more information? Even if that happened, we knew that South Korea was acting more aggressively. They aren't North Korea. We knew what they were doing and we could have followed suit. This is where the VALID criticism of the US response comes from. There was some combination of political and/or structural arrogance that made us think that we were not in danger.

Why?

It's one thing to say "hey, we are an ocean apart". But American business is VASTLY dependent on China for raw materials and manufactured goods, and there is a massive amount of business travel between the US and China. For you to make the comment that China "let their people travel the world", it is just a wild mischaracterization of how world travel occurs and why. You don't take into account AMERICANS who are in China for valid reasons who are returning in the normal course of business. Coronavirus spread not simply because Chinese people travelled, but because ALL people traveled to and from China.

Occam's Razor.

China's leadership (regardless of "communism") is very comparable to the US leadership currently: negligent, arrogant, unwilling to admit to error, secretive, and cover-up oriented (blame anyone but yourself).

DNA/genome evidence supports that this is a zoonotic disease that came from bats. Up to 60% of known infectious diseases in the human population are believed to be zoonotic. Even assuming a mid-October to mid-November start date and a late-December worldwide report date, and with the disorganized nature of the Chinese governmental system, it is very likely that the Chinese had very little idea of what was truly going on at the outset. YES, it was then made worse by Chinese secrecy and a refusal to share the nature of the problem with the world community.

And (for now) setting aside the China portion of the blame, by late December, the world was informed of the problem. South Korea took it seriously. The US did not. We can have further conversations to break down the various forms and percentages of blame to assign to the US and its institutions, but the fact remains, the US did not take the correct actions. For you to say that you don't blame anyone in the US, simply because China didn't speak up for 6-10 weeks, is a farce.

It's also silly to blame Fauci for saying "it's all good, man". There were other intelligence sources, several that warned the President and the administration of the emerging problem. All of those reports were ignored.

To pretend that we had NO INFORMATION...that this entire thing was a SURPRISE...that we couldn't possibly PREPARE...or do anything different...is just a joke, particularly when you yourself cite the aggressive approach taken by South Korea. Which worked a lot better than our "like a miracle, it will disappear when the weather is warmer" approach.

We all know that the US didn't "create" the coronavirus problem. But when we had the chance to act, we wasted months. That is on us, regardless of whether Fauci had some positive things to say at one time. People in positions of power had the information, they chose to ignore it. That's the truth, no matter how much we try not to talk about "politics".
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So much I disagree with you. But I really don't have time nor interest to response to your War and Peace dessertation. We agree to disagree.
 
JD08 said:
South Korea had a scare with SARS so they planned ahead to make sure theyd be prepared. In addition to rapidly developing a test (without ******** it up and having to start over), they use EHR data in a way that would violate HIPAA here, and track people via their cell phones. Then, when a person tests positive, they text everyone that they might have crossed paths with and suggest they get tested.

There is a way that could be implemented here without violating privacy laws, but it would require some trust.
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Spot on.
 
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Tad Footeball said:
I've seen dudes contort themselves into positions not seen since Candi Fisher's last gang bang to blame China for not being transparent.....and then giving Orange Jesus a pass for the YUGE level of negligence and gullibility for even be remotely in the position TO be deceived by China. That's their excuse. President "Only I Can Fix It" was too trusting.

It's all irrelevant though. This quote exists and will always exist and is the discussion ender:

“And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."
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So I see you’ve stopped straddling the fence.
 
JD08 said:
It was, then it was ventilators, then back to testing, now it's a vaccine.
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Complete political hackery. Complete bull****. I've been out in contact with my clients everyday since this started. And nothing...
 
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JD08 said:
It was, then it was ventilators, then back to testing, now it's a vaccine.
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I hear a while back that they discovered it was better to just turn patient onto their stomach then use a ventilator. Not sure it is true but it sure beats having that crap rammed down your throat. I'm wondering why after 40 years on the job, Dr. Fauci did have a better plan than just destroying our economy and trusting WHO and China. Just saying, should he at least be asked why this isn't all HIS fault? Maybe this is not an "infectious" disease.
 
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Gatorhater said:
I hear a while back that they discovered it was better to just turn patient onto their stomach then use a ventilator. Not sure it is true but it sure beats having that crap rammed down your throat. I'm wondering why after 40 years on the job, Dr. Fauci did have a better plan than just destroying our economy and trusting WHO and China. Just saying, should he at least be asked why this isn't all HIS fault? Maybe this is not an "infectious" disease.
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I'm more curious why people think this is the problem it is because of something we did wrong all the while the rest of the world was doing the same.
 
JD08 said:
I'm more curious why people think this is the problem it is because of something we did wrong all the while the rest of the world was doing the same.
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Oh I agree but we should know by now that the world is always right and it is always our fault. Since it seems essential to blame someone other than the obvious source, I figure the little guy with the big ego need to explain himself too. I mean between him and the CDC are they the ones who should have a less had a plan?

Our kids are grown but they have 16 kids of their own at home. It can't be pretty and he wants to keep schools closed? Heck, one ours is moving back to FL -- I am wondering if is just to get back within babysitting range.
 
In my observation (outside of geriatrics), the amount of fear for the virus - and opposition to going back to work is directly proportional to the amount of unemployment one is receiving, and how slovenly obese, diabetic or otherwise unhealthy one is.

Sorry fatties, an extra few weeks of 'quarantine' isn't going to save you.
 
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