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UM vs. Wake Game Thread

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First half was laughable. Perimeter frailty. Wake Forest had so many more guys who were willing to take it inside, so many more ways to get it inside, and considerably more knowledge that it's vital to get the ball inside. Wake Forest was basically playing like Kansas under Larry Brown when Danny Manning was there in the mid to late '80s. Wonderful to watch, with all the scornful inside buckets.

The Canes under Larranaga prefer the opponent to back away and allow us to shoot untroubled 3 pointers, while seldom daring to go inside on their own. This forum is comically unwilling to concede it's a problem. No kidding Larranaga is an excellent coach but that's always been a knock on his style. There are lots of college basketball betting gurus in Las Vegas, ones who appear regularly on the local radio programs, like a guy named Alan Boston. I remember being on a panel on the Stardust Line more than 20 years ago when those basketball gurus were praising Larranaga overall, especially defensively, while saying his teams don't have enough ways to get the ball inside, that he prefers an inside-out game but it comes with very little movement from players without the ball, nor pick and rolls or weaves.

It still holds up today. Watch the games and it's ridiculous how often we have 4 of the 5 guys behind the 3 point line while on offense.

IMO, it limits our upside no matter who the players are. Not enough margin for error. The higher you reach there will always be teams who will take away those 3 point shots. We'd have to have Kentucky or Duke level talent to overcome it, and that's not going to happen.

Another issue I remember hearing about with Larranaga from decades ago is that he doesn't have enough ways to get the ball inbounds. That also holds true of the Canes. Last season it got so bad we started winging the ball into the backcourt almost every time. We've resorted to that this season. Today we cut it to 9 then got called for 5 seconds when nobody was moving at all. Larranaga complained but it was a legitimate offense. In fact, it was more than 6 seconds, let alone 5. The referees are always overly generous on that call.

Kudos to the second half charge to the bucket. I think we went 10 or more consecutive possessions at one point taking the ball inside. It was obviously a halftime emphasis from Larranaga, and excellent to watch. Guys who don't even have that instinct in their body were taking it inside repeatedly, with terrific results.

Unfortunately we defaulted to lazy perimeter frailty with about 4 minutes remaining, and when it wasn't really necessary. We shot ourselves out of any hope of finishing off the comeback. Not that there ever was much real hope. Comebacks are for suckers. It's very, very rare to sustain a late run of that type against a similar caliber team. I mentioned that in the Notre Dame game thread. My friends and I have taken advantage of sportsbook tourists countless times in that situation. The squares invariably think the run will continue in the same direction, when far more often than not it normalizes and reverses.

The play by play announcer was indeed a moron. He should have been escorted out of the building when he claimed that Tim Duncan mostly blended in and you forgot he was on the court for Wake Forest. Unbelievable. Duncan was a premier player on both ends of the court, always in the spotlight and already a budding legend.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
First half was laughable. Perimeter frailty. Wake Forest had so many more guys who were willing to take it inside, so many more ways to get it inside, and considerably more knowledge that it's vital to get the ball inside. Wake Forest was basically playing like Kansas under Larry Brown when Danny Manning was there in the mid to late '80s. Wonderful to watch, with all the scornful inside buckets.

The Canes under Larranaga prefer the opponent to back away and allow us to shoot untroubled 3 pointers, while seldom daring to go inside on their own. This forum is comically unwilling to concede it's a problem. No kidding Larranaga is an excellent coach but that's always been a knock on his style. There are lots of college basketball betting gurus in Las Vegas, ones who appear regularly on the local radio programs, like a guy named Alan Boston. I remember being on a panel on the Stardust Line more than 20 years ago when those basketball gurus were praising Larranaga overall, especially defensively, while saying his teams don't have enough ways to get the ball inside, that he prefers an inside-out game but it comes with very little movement from players without the ball, nor pick and rolls or weaves.

It still holds up today. Watch the games and it's ridiculous how often we have 4 of the 5 guys behind the 3 point line while on offense.

IMO, it limits our upside no matter who the players are. Not enough margin for error. The higher you reach there will always be teams who will take away those 3 point shots. We'd have to have Kentucky or Duke level talent to overcome it, and that's not going to happen.

Another issue I remember hearing about with Larranaga from decades ago is that he doesn't have enough ways to get the ball inbounds. That also holds true of the Canes. Last season it got so bad we started winging the ball into the backcourt almost every time. We've resorted to that this season. Today we cut it to 9 then got called for 5 seconds when nobody was moving at all. Larranaga complained but it was a legitimate offense. In fact, it was more than 6 seconds, let alone 5. The referees are always overly generous on that call.

Kudos to the second half charge to the bucket. I think we went 10 or more consecutive possessions at one point taking the ball inside. It was obviously a halftime emphasis from Larranaga, and excellent to watch. Guys who don't even have that instinct in their body were taking it inside repeatedly, with terrific results.

Unfortunately we defaulted to lazy perimeter frailty with about 4 minutes remaining, and when it wasn't really necessary. We shot ourselves out of any hope of finishing off the comeback. Not that there ever was much real hope. Comebacks are for suckers. It's very, very rare to sustain a late run of that type against a similar caliber team. I mentioned that in the Notre Dame game thread. My friends and I have taken advantage of sportsbook tourists countless times in that situation. The squares invariably think the run will continue in the same direction, when far more often than not it normalizes and reverses.

The play by play announcer was indeed a moron. He should have been escorted out of the building when he claimed that Tim Duncan mostly blended in and you forgot he was on the court for Wake Forest. Unbelievable. Duncan was a premier player on both ends of the court, always in the spotlight and already a budding legend.
Click to expand...

If only Larranaga ran the triple option...

Awsi Dooger has never been wrong and never lost a bet - just ask him!
 
Awsi Dooger said:
First half was laughable. Perimeter frailty. Wake Forest had so many more guys who were willing to take it inside, so many more ways to get it inside, and considerably more knowledge that it's vital to get the ball inside. Wake Forest was basically playing like Kansas under Larry Brown when Danny Manning was there in the mid to late '80s. Wonderful to watch, with all the scornful inside buckets.

The Canes under Larranaga prefer the opponent to back away and allow us to shoot untroubled 3 pointers, while seldom daring to go inside on their own. This forum is comically unwilling to concede it's a problem. No kidding Larranaga is an excellent coach but that's always been a knock on his style. There are lots of college basketball betting gurus in Las Vegas, ones who appear regularly on the local radio programs, like a guy named Alan Boston. I remember being on a panel on the Stardust Line more than 20 years ago when those basketball gurus were praising Larranaga overall, especially defensively, while saying his teams don't have enough ways to get the ball inside, that he prefers an inside-out game but it comes with very little movement from players without the ball, nor pick and rolls or weaves.

It still holds up today. Watch the games and it's ridiculous how often we have 4 of the 5 guys behind the 3 point line while on offense.

IMO, it limits our upside no matter who the players are. Not enough margin for error. The higher you reach there will always be teams who will take away those 3 point shots. We'd have to have Kentucky or Duke level talent to overcome it, and that's not going to happen.

Another issue I remember hearing about with Larranaga from decades ago is that he doesn't have enough ways to get the ball inbounds. That also holds true of the Canes. Last season it got so bad we started winging the ball into the backcourt almost every time. We've resorted to that this season. Today we cut it to 9 then got called for 5 seconds when nobody was moving at all. Larranaga complained but it was a legitimate offense. In fact, it was more than 6 seconds, let alone 5. The referees are always overly generous on that call.

Kudos to the second half charge to the bucket. I think we went 10 or more consecutive possessions at one point taking the ball inside. It was obviously a halftime emphasis from Larranaga, and excellent to watch. Guys who don't even have that instinct in their body were taking it inside repeatedly, with terrific results.

Unfortunately we defaulted to lazy perimeter frailty with about 4 minutes remaining, and when it wasn't really necessary. We shot ourselves out of any hope of finishing off the comeback. Not that there ever was much real hope. Comebacks are for suckers. It's very, very rare to sustain a late run of that type against a similar caliber team. I mentioned that in the Notre Dame game thread. My friends and I have taken advantage of sportsbook tourists countless times in that situation. The squares invariably think the run will continue in the same direction, when far more often than not it normalizes and reverses.

The play by play announcer was indeed a moron. He should have been escorted out of the building when he claimed that Tim Duncan mostly blended in and you forgot he was on the court for Wake Forest. Unbelievable. Duncan was a premier player on both ends of the court, always in the spotlight and already a budding legend.
Click to expand...


Doesn't have enough ways to inbound the ball? Are you freaking kidding me, the guy has won SIX HUNDRED GAMES at the D-1 Level, I'm pretty sure he's had to come up with an inbound play in that span. Coach L prefers to have an uptempo team that takes advantage of the three point line, for the most part it works for him. Where this year's problems lie is that he doesn't have a point guard on the roster that can do what he needs him to do. He is stuck with a combo guard that turns the ball over seemingly at will, and he is a year away from having a guy on the roster that can give him some stability at that position.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
First half was laughable. Perimeter frailty. Wake Forest had so many more guys who were willing to take it inside, so many more ways to get it inside, and considerably more knowledge that it's vital to get the ball inside. Wake Forest was basically playing like Kansas under Larry Brown when Danny Manning was there in the mid to late '80s. Wonderful to watch, with all the scornful inside buckets.

The Canes under Larranaga prefer the opponent to back away and allow us to shoot untroubled 3 pointers, while seldom daring to go inside on their own. This forum is comically unwilling to concede it's a problem. No kidding Larranaga is an excellent coach but that's always been a knock on his style. There are lots of college basketball betting gurus in Las Vegas, ones who appear regularly on the local radio programs, like a guy named Alan Boston. I remember being on a panel on the Stardust Line more than 20 years ago when those basketball gurus were praising Larranaga overall, especially defensively, while saying his teams don't have enough ways to get the ball inside, that he prefers an inside-out game but it comes with very little movement from players without the ball, nor pick and rolls or weaves.

It still holds up today. Watch the games and it's ridiculous how often we have 4 of the 5 guys behind the 3 point line while on offense.

IMO, it limits our upside no matter who the players are. Not enough margin for error. The higher you reach there will always be teams who will take away those 3 point shots. We'd have to have Kentucky or Duke level talent to overcome it, and that's not going to happen.

Another issue I remember hearing about with Larranaga from decades ago is that he doesn't have enough ways to get the ball inbounds. That also holds true of the Canes. Last season it got so bad we started winging the ball into the backcourt almost every time. We've resorted to that this season. Today we cut it to 9 then got called for 5 seconds when nobody was moving at all. Larranaga complained but it was a legitimate offense. In fact, it was more than 6 seconds, let alone 5. The referees are always overly generous on that call.

Kudos to the second half charge to the bucket. I think we went 10 or more consecutive possessions at one point taking the ball inside. It was obviously a halftime emphasis from Larranaga, and excellent to watch. Guys who don't even have that instinct in their body were taking it inside repeatedly, with terrific results.

Unfortunately we defaulted to lazy perimeter frailty with about 4 minutes remaining, and when it wasn't really necessary. We shot ourselves out of any hope of finishing off the comeback. Not that there ever was much real hope. Comebacks are for suckers. It's very, very rare to sustain a late run of that type against a similar caliber team. I mentioned that in the Notre Dame game thread. My friends and I have taken advantage of sportsbook tourists countless times in that situation. The squares invariably think the run will continue in the same direction, when far more often than not it normalizes and reverses.

The play by play announcer was indeed a moron. He should have been escorted out of the building when he claimed that Tim Duncan mostly blended in and you forgot he was on the court for Wake Forest. Unbelievable. Duncan was a premier player on both ends of the court, always in the spotlight and already a budding legend.
Click to expand...




Money post. As I mentioned earlier in another thread, Larranaga's biggest flaw is his lack of involvement of the post on offense. We have more than enough bigs AnD guards to be able to post up and score in the paint. Limits our ceiling to consistently play at a high level. Larranaga's positive attributes are often able to mask his biggest and really only serious flaw.
 
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We have no big that is a threat to post up and score in the paint, regardless of who the coach is. Huell looks like he's never played organized basketball before. Murphy gets all his baskets on put backs and fast break dunks. Izundu (the only guy who has shown flashes of a post up game) averages a foul per minute. Miller (like everybody said) should be shirting.
 
This is the most maddening, inconsistent, sloppy team L has ever had at Miami, and it's not ALL Newton's fault as some posters like to claim.

Also, for the moron above who was ranting and raving about post play, the points in the paint last night were: Wake 36, Miami 34. Even steven.
 
Canedude08 said:
Awsi Dooger said:
First half was laughable. Perimeter frailty. Wake Forest had so many more guys who were willing to take it inside, so many more ways to get it inside, and considerably more knowledge that it's vital to get the ball inside. Wake Forest was basically playing like Kansas under Larry Brown when Danny Manning was there in the mid to late '80s. Wonderful to watch, with all the scornful inside buckets.

The Canes under Larranaga prefer the opponent to back away and allow us to shoot untroubled 3 pointers, while seldom daring to go inside on their own. This forum is comically unwilling to concede it's a problem. No kidding Larranaga is an excellent coach but that's always been a knock on his style. There are lots of college basketball betting gurus in Las Vegas, ones who appear regularly on the local radio programs, like a guy named Alan Boston. I remember being on a panel on the Stardust Line more than 20 years ago when those basketball gurus were praising Larranaga overall, especially defensively, while saying his teams don't have enough ways to get the ball inside, that he prefers an inside-out game but it comes with very little movement from players without the ball, nor pick and rolls or weaves.

It still holds up today. Watch the games and it's ridiculous how often we have 4 of the 5 guys behind the 3 point line while on offense.

IMO, it limits our upside no matter who the players are. Not enough margin for error. The higher you reach there will always be teams who will take away those 3 point shots. We'd have to have Kentucky or Duke level talent to overcome it, and that's not going to happen.

Another issue I remember hearing about with Larranaga from decades ago is that he doesn't have enough ways to get the ball inbounds. That also holds true of the Canes. Last season it got so bad we started winging the ball into the backcourt almost every time. We've resorted to that this season. Today we cut it to 9 then got called for 5 seconds when nobody was moving at all. Larranaga complained but it was a legitimate offense. In fact, it was more than 6 seconds, let alone 5. The referees are always overly generous on that call.

Kudos to the second half charge to the bucket. I think we went 10 or more consecutive possessions at one point taking the ball inside. It was obviously a halftime emphasis from Larranaga, and excellent to watch. Guys who don't even have that instinct in their body were taking it inside repeatedly, with terrific results.

Unfortunately we defaulted to lazy perimeter frailty with about 4 minutes remaining, and when it wasn't really necessary. We shot ourselves out of any hope of finishing off the comeback. Not that there ever was much real hope. Comebacks are for suckers. It's very, very rare to sustain a late run of that type against a similar caliber team. I mentioned that in the Notre Dame game thread. My friends and I have taken advantage of sportsbook tourists countless times in that situation. The squares invariably think the run will continue in the same direction, when far more often than not it normalizes and reverses.

The play by play announcer was indeed a moron. He should have been escorted out of the building when he claimed that Tim Duncan mostly blended in and you forgot he was on the court for Wake Forest. Unbelievable. Duncan was a premier player on both ends of the court, always in the spotlight and already a budding legend.
Click to expand...


Doesn't have enough ways to inbound the ball? Are you freaking kidding me, the guy has won SIX HUNDRED GAMES at the D-1 Level, I'm pretty sure he's had to come up with an inbound play in that span. Coach L prefers to have an uptempo team that takes advantage of the three point line, for the most part it works for him. Where this year's problems lie is that he doesn't have a point guard on the roster that can do what he needs him to do. He is stuck with a combo guard that turns the ball over seemingly at will, and he is a year away from having a guy on the roster that can give him some stability at that position.
Click to expand...

An uptempo team? What in the world are you talking about? Per Kenpom, here is our tempo ratings the last 6 years L has been coach:

11-12: 213
12-13: 274
13-14: 351 (dead last in Division 1 basketball)
14-15: 276
15-16: 306
16-17: 299
 
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Gables Canes said:
This is the most maddening, inconsistent, sloppy team L has ever had at Miami, and it's not ALL Newton's fault as some posters like to claim.

Also, for the moron above who was ranting and raving about post play, the points in the paint last night were: Wake 36, Miami 34. Even steven.
Click to expand...

A lot of it is youth. Last year we started two 5th year seniors, a 4th year senior, a 4th year junior, and a 3rd year junior. This year we start one 5th year senior, one 4th year senior, a 3rd year junior and two freshmens. Big difference.
 
tcgrad1014 said:
Gables Canes said:
This is the most maddening, inconsistent, sloppy team L has ever had at Miami, and it's not ALL Newton's fault as some posters like to claim.

Also, for the moron above who was ranting and raving about post play, the points in the paint last night were: Wake 36, Miami 34. Even steven.
Click to expand...

A lot of it is youth. Last year we started two 5th year seniors, a 4th year senior, a 4th year junior, and a 3rd year junior. This year we start one 5th year senior, one 4th year senior, a 3rd year junior and two freshmens. Big difference.
Click to expand...

Yup. As I've said, L is building a program. We're not there yet. A lot of us assumed we were reloading this year. We'd take a step back, but we'd still be a solid team and make the NCAAT. Well, it looks like we're rebuilding this year. The good news is, with L's recruiting, soon we'll be at a point where we're not making a run to the sweet 16 every 3 years and rebuilding in between. We might only be that good (a 2-3 seed) every 3-4 years, but we'll be a tourney team every year.
 
Didn´t see the game but man 96 points to WF seems like not our night.

Looks like refs made more calls than a phone solicitation center.

Coach L singled out DJ when he was talking about 3 pt misses post game.

How did WF shoot almost 60%?

I still think on any night we can compete.
 
Last edited:
tcgrad1014 said:
Gables Canes said:
This is the most maddening, inconsistent, sloppy team L has ever had at Miami, and it's not ALL Newton's fault as some posters like to claim.

Also, for the moron above who was ranting and raving about post play, the points in the paint last night were: Wake 36, Miami 34. Even steven.
Click to expand...

A lot of it is youth. Last year we started two 5th year seniors, a 4th year senior, a 4th year junior, and a 3rd year junior. This year we start one 5th year senior, one 4th year senior, a 3rd year junior and two freshmens. Big difference.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but that is still not THAT young. I've seen much younger teams than this one have much more success in today's college basketball landscape.
 
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Canedude08 said:
Awsi Dooger said:
First half was laughable. Perimeter frailty. Wake Forest had so many more guys who were willing to take it inside, so many more ways to get it inside, and considerably more knowledge that it's vital to get the ball inside. Wake Forest was basically playing like Kansas under Larry Brown when Danny Manning was there in the mid to late '80s. Wonderful to watch, with all the scornful inside buckets.

The Canes under Larranaga prefer the opponent to back away and allow us to shoot untroubled 3 pointers, while seldom daring to go inside on their own. This forum is comically unwilling to concede it's a problem. No kidding Larranaga is an excellent coach but that's always been a knock on his style. There are lots of college basketball betting gurus in Las Vegas, ones who appear regularly on the local radio programs, like a guy named Alan Boston. I remember being on a panel on the Stardust Line more than 20 years ago when those basketball gurus were praising Larranaga overall, especially defensively, while saying his teams don't have enough ways to get the ball inside, that he prefers an inside-out game but it comes with very little movement from players without the ball, nor pick and rolls or weaves.

It still holds up today. Watch the games and it's ridiculous how often we have 4 of the 5 guys behind the 3 point line while on offense.

IMO, it limits our upside no matter who the players are. Not enough margin for error. The higher you reach there will always be teams who will take away those 3 point shots. We'd have to have Kentucky or Duke level talent to overcome it, and that's not going to happen.

Another issue I remember hearing about with Larranaga from decades ago is that he doesn't have enough ways to get the ball inbounds. That also holds true of the Canes. Last season it got so bad we started winging the ball into the backcourt almost every time. We've resorted to that this season. Today we cut it to 9 then got called for 5 seconds when nobody was moving at all. Larranaga complained but it was a legitimate offense. In fact, it was more than 6 seconds, let alone 5. The referees are always overly generous on that call.

Kudos to the second half charge to the bucket. I think we went 10 or more consecutive possessions at one point taking the ball inside. It was obviously a halftime emphasis from Larranaga, and excellent to watch. Guys who don't even have that instinct in their body were taking it inside repeatedly, with terrific results.

Unfortunately we defaulted to lazy perimeter frailty with about 4 minutes remaining, and when it wasn't really necessary. We shot ourselves out of any hope of finishing off the comeback. Not that there ever was much real hope. Comebacks are for suckers. It's very, very rare to sustain a late run of that type against a similar caliber team. I mentioned that in the Notre Dame game thread. My friends and I have taken advantage of sportsbook tourists countless times in that situation. The squares invariably think the run will continue in the same direction, when far more often than not it normalizes and reverses.

The play by play announcer was indeed a moron. He should have been escorted out of the building when he claimed that Tim Duncan mostly blended in and you forgot he was on the court for Wake Forest. Unbelievable. Duncan was a premier player on both ends of the court, always in the spotlight and already a budding legend.
Click to expand...


Doesn't have enough ways to inbound the ball? Are you freaking kidding me, the guy has won SIX HUNDRED GAMES at the D-1 Level, I'm pretty sure he's had to come up with an inbound play in that span. Coach L prefers to have an uptempo team that takes advantage of the three point line, for the most part it works for him. Where this year's problems lie is that he doesn't have a point guard on the roster that can do what he needs him to do. He is stuck with a combo guard that turns the ball over seemingly at will, and he is a year away from having a guy on the roster that can give him some stability at that position.
Click to expand...

Hard to criticize Coach L but one thing I've noticed over time is the in bounds play under the basket. 80% of the time our option is to throw it to the safety option in the back court. This year that pass has been past half court and has almost been stolen a few times. Some of the easiest looks you can get are when you inbound the ball from under your own basket. It's something that's been an issue for a while. This year, it's even more important because it's hard for us to score so this is a situation we need to take advantage of.
 
Thought this year was the one we started a bunch of great recruits. Looks like some of these kids are green or really overrated because this team sucks.
 
Gables Canes said:
tcgrad1014 said:
Gables Canes said:
This is the most maddening, inconsistent, sloppy team L has ever had at Miami, and it's not ALL Newton's fault as some posters like to claim.

Also, for the moron above who was ranting and raving about post play, the points in the paint last night were: Wake 36, Miami 34. Even steven.
Click to expand...

A lot of it is youth. Last year we started two 5th year seniors, a 4th year senior, a 4th year junior, and a 3rd year junior. This year we start one 5th year senior, one 4th year senior, a 3rd year junior and two freshmens. Big difference.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but that is still not THAT young. I've seen much younger teams than this one have much more success in today's college basketball landscape.
Click to expand...

Having a competent PG would have helped mask the relative youth. Newton is essentially a freshman when it comes to running the point.
 
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tcgrad1014 said:
We have no big that is a threat to post up and score in the paint, regardless of who the coach is. Huell looks like he's never played organized basketball before. Murphy gets all his baskets on put backs and fast break dunks. Izundu (the only guy who has shown flashes of a post up game) averages a foul per minute. Miller (like everybody said) should be shirting.
Click to expand...

Be that as it may, if you don't even bluff an inside game in an effort to get fouled....it becomes a game of daring UM to shoot contested long range shots, which we have been more than willing to accommodate. The Syracuse game was the worst example of that...like a football team refusing to stretch a defense by taking deep shots and running everything into a stacked front hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.
 
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