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UM needs to fix this BS with admissions

Lemme ask this:

Do you think its harder to graduate from UM than it is from WVa? (same major)
 
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SFbayCane said:
Lemme ask this:

Do you think its harder to graduate from UM than it is from WVa? (same major)
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Depends on the major. Most of the majors that football players select are going to be pretty much equal across all schools. How tough can you make getting a bachelors in communications?
 
killa1storm said:
CaneRage said:
This admissions stuff is getting old. Standford, which has higher admission standards than we do, has been a good program for a few years now. WVU and Louisville, both with admission standards that are much more lax than ours, haven't sniffed the top 10 (OK, actually WVU has). Does losing that talent hurt. **** yeah it does, but admission standards aren't what is hurting this program. Bad coaching, bad recruiting, and underperforming players is what is hurting this program. If a kid is bright, knows what he has to do to get in school and still doesn't work hard enough to do it, why would you want a kid like that on the team? What makes you think he would work any harder on the field than he did in the classroom? Because he WANTS to play football? You really think that will motivate the kid when Golden is pushing them through drills in August when it is hot as ****? And we talk about wanting smart players, knowing what admission standards are and not working towards them sure doesn't seem very bright to me. And yes, football smarts does not equal school smarts, I understand that, but come on.... work ethic=work ethic on or off the field. I'm not saying they should have a 4.0, but at least meet minimum standards.... especially when you know what they are.

And yes, LSU and Ala. are getting those kids in and they are doing great, but that's coaching, system and smart recruiting. Saban could win with any talented players (unless it's a pro player). RS and Coker couldn't and it had nothing to do with admissions. And is UF's (God, I hate that school) admission standards that much lower than ours? Or lower at all? I don't think so. And up until recently they were doing pretty well.

So don't overblow the admissions thing. I mean, we had the number 1 ranked class in 2008 (and yes, they didn't live up to it, but that's not the point) with the same admission standards in place. If this team doesn't win in the next few years it is on Golden and not the admission standards....
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Who says they're not working towards it? I don't think you guys understand how much of these guys time gets take up. When I was in high school we got home 8:30 MINIMUM, and that was usually the night before games. It was like a full-time job. And then when the season was over we had like 2 weeks before we started lifting. Then we had spring practice, traveled to 7-on-7's throughout the summer, summer camp, then the season again before you know it. By the time you get home, take a shower, and eat, its around 11pm. And you still have HW to do and try to get up at 6 to make it to school the next morning, doesn't leave much time for HW.

I had excellent grades until I started playing ball and they dropped each year. If you put in the time asked you just won't have that much time. Especially if you're putting in the time to be the elite athlete these guys are. It doesn't mean they're lazy, lazy people don't get to the levels they get athletically. There aren't any tutors and such available to these kids like they'd get in college. What's most important is structure. Plus I don't think any of Miami's fans are saying to lower standards. But there's a problem when a kid meets the NCAA requirement and Miami won't let them in. Why put yourself at a disadvantage to other schools?
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Exactly and spot on. I think it is unfair that other schools can get these players in and we can not. They also have much better football facilities and stadiums. Why don't we make even harder to compete. We lost some really good ones to LSU a few years back because LSU could get them in and we could not. All American Ali Highsmith and Ricky Jean Francios who was MVP at the NC game both were coming to the U and could not because of admissions. The tide really turned against us. Next thing local players like Patrick Peterson are going over to LSU. They just want to play football and not deal with admissions. There attitude is if you do not want my services I will go to a bigger and more football friendly school. They love the U but love is a two way street.

I had an athletic scholarship on a National Champion team and it was real hard work. 40 hours a week of training. You are competing everyday with everybody else. There is always a bunch of people right behind wanting to have your spot if you will not put the work in at that level. Then you are exhausted. A little hard to study when you are dead tired. Got to get more sleep in to recharge. Very hard to study. I told my kid when he was in junior high to work for an academic scholarship and not waste his time on an athletic scholarship unless he was going to go pro. He got a academic. Going to med school after he is done.
 
So... because it is tough to meet the standards, we shouldn't have any? I mean, where do we lower them to? If we drop it to a 1.5 and a 16 ACT score, don't you think we'll be yelling because a kid with a 1.4 and 15 score isn't getting in? And yeah, maybe that's extreme, but where do you lower the line to? And if we are saying it is to tough to get into UM and that's one of the reasons we aren't ranked, then I'll toss Standford back at you where the standards are higher and it is MUCH tougher to get a BS than it is at WVU. And Standford hasn't been just good for a year. Last time I looked Standford was like number 4 in the country and WVU and Louisville, the other school everyone always uses, weren't in the top 20. And before you say Standford is a fluke.... how do we compare to UF as far as admissions? (And that's a serious question) If you come back and say "Well, they got A. Luck as a QB", that just proves my point that it's the players and not the standards that make it. And yes, we are losing talent, I can't argue with that, but you can win and win constantly with the standards we have. I say it again.... the reason we are in the shape we are in is because we have recruit **** poorly, had worse coaching and had players that underperformed. And I say that knowing we lose good players.

And another point, from what people say about Peterson, the reason we lost him had nothing to do with admissions......

And getting back to killa1storm, if you really feel that it's just way to hard to study and play sports, especially in high school, then maybe we ought to just give everyone on the football team a free pass and not make them even go to school. Maybe they can just play ball. I mean, we don't want it to be to tough to on 'em. And yeah, I also know some high schools that do that.... but come on....
 
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CaneRage said:
So... because it is tough to meet the standards, we shouldn't have any? I mean, where do we lower them to? If we drop it to a 1.5 and a 16 ACT score, don't you think we'll be yelling because a kid with a 1.4 and 15 score isn't getting in? And yeah, maybe that's extreme, but where do you lower the line to? And if we are saying it is to tough to get into UM and that's one of the reasons we aren't ranked, then I'll toss Standford back at you where the standards are higher and it is MUCH tougher to get a BS than it is at WVU. And Standford hasn't been just good for a year. Last time I looked Standford was like number 4 in the country and WVU and Louisville, the other school everyone always uses, weren't in the top 20. And before you say Standford is a fluke.... how do we compare to UF as far as admissions? (And that's a serious question) If you come back and say "Well, they got A. Luck as a QB", that just proves my point that it's the players and not the standards that make it. And yes, we are losing talent, I can't argue with that, but you can win and win constantly with the standards we have. I say it again.... the reason we are in the shape we are in is because we have recruit **** poorly, had worse coaching and had players that underperformed. And I say that knowing we lose good players.

And another point, from what people say about Peterson, the reason we lost him had nothing to do with admissions......

And getting back to killa1storm, if you really feel that it's just way to hard to study and play sports, especially in high school, then maybe we ought to just give everyone on the football team a free pass and not make them even go to school. Maybe they can just play ball. I mean, we don't want it to be to tough to on 'em. And yeah, I also know some high schools that do that.... but come on....
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Who said anything about not having standards?
 
SF- I think it's harder to stay eligibile, not sure about graduating. And that's only because I think the bell curve would be higher in most classes at UM. It's really hard to fail a college course anywhere, you can basically do nothing and get a C or a D just by b.s.ing your professor. Things may have changed a lot since I was at UM, but getting by was never a problem.
 
CaneRage said:
So... because it is tough to meet the standards, we shouldn't have any? I mean, where do we lower them to? If we drop it to a 1.5 and a 16 ACT score, don't you think we'll be yelling because a kid with a 1.4 and 15 score isn't getting in? And yeah, maybe that's extreme, but where do you lower the line to? And if we are saying it is to tough to get into UM and that's one of the reasons we aren't ranked, then I'll toss Standford back at you where the standards are higher and it is MUCH tougher to get a BS than it is at WVU. And Standford hasn't been just good for a year. Last time I looked Standford was like number 4 in the country and WVU and Louisville, the other school everyone always uses, weren't in the top 20. And before you say Standford is a fluke.... how do we compare to UF as far as admissions? (And that's a serious question) If you come back and say "Well, they got A. Luck as a QB", that just proves my point that it's the players and not the standards that make it. And yes, we are losing talent, I can't argue with that, but you can win and win constantly with the standards we have. I say it again.... the reason we are in the shape we are in is because we have recruit **** poorly, had worse coaching and had players that underperformed. And I say that knowing we lose good players.

And another point, from what people say about Peterson, the reason we lost him had nothing to do with admissions......

And getting back to killa1storm, if you really feel that it's just way to hard to study and play sports, especially in high school, then maybe we ought to just give everyone on the football team a free pass and not make them even go to school. Maybe they can just play ball. I mean, we don't want it to be to tough to on 'em. And yeah, I also know some high schools that do that.... but come on....
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At this point you're just creating strawmen to argue with yourself. Not one person in this thread has argued anything you are arguing. No one has advocated lowering any standards or giving anyone a free pass, the only one who has mentioned it has been you. Again, it's not about lowering standards. Its about Miami not letting kids in who MEET the NCAA requirement. Every other schools is taking them if they meet said requirement. But by all means continue, I'll be happy seeing those kids in UF uniforms.
 
killa1storm, I'll be the first to apologize if I took it to far. What I was trying to show is that there will always be kids that don't meet standards no matter where you set them. I just used poor examples or didn't explain myself well enough. I just have trouble with the excuse that it is to hard to do both and meet minimum standards. But, on average, we lose about, what, 10% of the class (2 to 3 players) every year? And yes, there might be more that either we don't recruit or are scared away because of the standards, I understand that. But still, if 90% of the class can meet standards, I guess I just don't think that is to tough. And I understand your point about Miami not taking kids that are NCAA qualified but don't meet our admission standards.

As far as you being happy with these kids ending up at UF if they don't make it here, serious question, what are the standards at UF as compared to Miami? I actually thought admission standards were pretty close. And I guess it bothers me because you had kids that had problems with grades, Frank Gore and Devin Hester, that got in. And there was serious questions about both. But they made it.

Again, apologize to the board if my logic was flawed. I guess I just hate all the excuses we come up with for losing when, to me, it's simple. It's not standards, it's bad coaching... otherwise how do you explain a Standford? Otherwise why aren't the WVU's, Marshall's, etc. playing for the title year in and year out? And we use Ala. and LSU as an example of program that have lower admission standards than we do, but I'd like to know the precentage of their players that wouldn't meet UM's admission requirements. Bet it's not that high.... and yeah, maybe the ones they do take in are the ones that push it over the top. I just believe that a Saban would win here with standards we have in place. And I hope Golden does too.
 
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CaneRage said:
killa1storm, I'll be the first to apologize if I took it to far. What I was trying to show is that there will always be kids that don't meet standards no matter where you set them. I just used poor examples or didn't explain myself well enough. I just have trouble with the excuse that it is to hard to do both and meet minimum standards. But, on average, we lose about, what, 10% of the class (2 to 3 players) every year? And yes, there might be more that either we don't recruit or are scared away because of the standards, I understand that. But still, if 90% of the class can meet standards, I guess I just don't think that is to tough. And I understand your point about Miami not taking kids that are NCAA qualified but don't meet our admission standards.

As far as you being happy with these kids ending up at UF if they don't make it here, serious question, what are the standards at UF as compared to Miami? I actually thought admission standards were pretty close. And I guess it bothers me because you had kids that had problems with grades, Frank Gore and Devin Hester, that got in. And there was serious questions about both. But they made it.

Again, apologize to the board if my logic was flawed. I guess I just hate all the excuses we come up with for losing when, to me, it's simple. It's not standards, it's bad coaching... otherwise how do you explain a Standford? Otherwise why aren't the WVU's, Marshall's, etc. playing for the title year in and year out? And we use Ala. and LSU as an example of program that have lower admission standards than we do, but I'd like to know the precentage of their players that wouldn't meet UM's admission requirements. Bet it's not that high.... and yeah, maybe the ones they do take in are the ones that push it over the top. I just believe that a Saban would win here with standards we have in place. And I hope Golden does too.
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We're saying the same things for the most part. I agree with you this isn't the reason you're losing, my apologies if that was the vibe I gave with my argument. Regarding UF, their standards are pretty much equal to Miami. The only difference is they use the NCAA sliding scale. IIRC Miami doesn't, so those 2-3 who get flagged by Miami wouldn't get flagged at UF since they meet the NCAA requirement. But yea you're right, that isn't the reason you're losing. This transcends the schools to me. I don't care if it's FSU, UF, Miami, UGA, etc. I'd just like to see kids get a chance.
 
There isn't one reason we are losing. There are many, many reasons and turning away 2-3 quality prospects per season due to our academic requirements is one of the reasons. Eliminate that one and its one less thing holding you back.
 
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