The what if game . . .

[imurcane]

There are kids from SFLA that leave every year and go become something in college. Some of them are under the radar types, while others are bonafide studs. Going back to Coker here . . .

Would it have made any difference to our program if we would have gotten the kids? Would Patrick Peterson have been PP the way we know him today under Randy Shannon? Willie Williams, was he any less regarded than when PP came out? WW was a bust.

Here is what I think!

We would have been marginally better with some of those kids. Some of the under radar kids wouldn't have had that chip on their shoulder at the U, and or wouldn't have been developed by our staff. I have no confidence that our staff would've handled PP any better than WW or say Arthur Brown.

 

[Moro]

I say we would have been a much better team. Coker made the first critical mistake that started the dramatic fall which was firing all of the great assistant coaches that we had. The firing of those coaches destroyed the foundation for the development of all our future players to come. Randy was in a position he couldn't win because the administration wouldn't pony up the money that he needed to hire qualified coaches. We now see that Randy was right about who the Administration should and should not be associated with all the way to spending the money hiring qualified coaches and investing in facility's today.

However, judging off of the talent that both have put in the league I would say they did the best they could do with the coaches that they had. And there is no doubt PP would have been just as successful look at DVD and Harris. Willie Williams is just one of those guys that you roll the dice on and give him a shot at life. His failures are his own. You can look at the development of Jon Beason and Darryl Sharpton for examples of what could have been for WW. With Arthur and his brother Bryce Brown well you can have all the talent in the world but if you don't have the heart to compete then you will never win. You have to at least stand and fight even if you lose. Lamar Miller stayed the course and competed now look at him, it paid off literally.

 

[Torocane]

There are kids from SFLA that leave every year and go become something in college. Some of them are under the radar types, while others are bonafide studs. Going back to Coker here . . .

Would it have made any difference to our program if we would have gotten the kids? Would Patrick Peterson have been PP the way we know him today under Randy Shannon? Willie Williams, was he any less regarded than when PP came out? WW was a bust.

Here is what I think!

We would have been marginally better with some of those kids. Some of the under radar kids wouldn't have had that chip on their shoulder at the U, and or wouldn't have been developed by our staff. I have no confidence that our staff would've handled PP any better than WW or say Arthur Brown.

I disagree a far as PP goes. PP is a self made player and what I mean by that is that he had the drive, work ethic and was of a head case in college.

 

[imurcane]

So Toro if we have got to have PP type players we are screwed. Not sure we could sign enough of them to be a winning program. But you may be correct about PP being a self starter. Im still not convinced we would have been more than marginally better with a few better players.

 

[rccollins]

So Toro if we have got to have PP type players we are screwed. Not sure we could sign enough of them to be a winning program. But you may be correct about PP being a self starter. Im still not convinced we would have been more than marginally better with a few better players.

right..but there was a boatload of better kids from south florida..not just a few..

 

[firstandcanes]

Every great program no matter how prestigious goes through a down cycle. Miami's was a perfect storm of bad coaches, lazy recruiting efforts, poor administrative support, and complacency on players behalf. Throw in arguably the worst decision in program history to destroy the OB, and you have the recipe for a program on the downward spiral.

Better days lay ahead now. The administration started by ponying up for a competent head coach. Also an upgrade to facilities on campus. The new staff is going all in on recruiting. What's yet to be seen is players with a chip on their shoulders. Hopefully Richt can get those guys. Plus I guess we have to make due with the stadium situation for now. Win and they will come...for most games anyway.

 

[Torocane]

So Toro if we have got to have PP type players we are screwed. Not sure we could sign enough of them to be a winning program. But you may be correct about PP being a self starter. Im still not convinced we would have been more than marginally better with a few better players.

Well getting as many PP players as possible sure helps!! But hopefully we now we have a staff that can "help" the players get the most out of themselves. There will always be players like WW that nobody can help.
I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point I think PP would have been the same thing he was at LSU if he played for those Shannon teams...I also think the overall record would have been the same.

 

[JackOAT]

Better players?

What's the point of having the materials if you don't know what to do with them?

Sure, we've missed on a ton of recruits, but we still managed to have 2 guys taken in the first round and another 5-6 drafted a couple years ago. We went 6-7 with that team.

No other squad in the last 20 years (probably longer) has been that bad with that much talent.

So to answer your question, do I think the players we missed on would've been just as good if they came here? No. Would the collective have been significantly better? **** NO

 

[Golsen82]

I don't think so with the **** poor coaching. Had we got Peterson, Cooper and Bridgewater over the years I don't think they would be been drafted where they were. Just my opinion

 

[Canedog]

If Miami got half the players it missed on in recruiting, dat train still be rollin. Recruiting is the life's blood of college football.

 

[ThomasM]

Randy Shannon signed the #1 class in 2008. That answers all your questions right there. SOME kids, like PP or PJ or whatever his name is today would have been a great individual player here. It wouldn't have made much of a difference, though. We'd still have stunk. He got better coaching where he went. Most kids that went elsewhere the last 15 years got better coaching where they went. That will change now.

And I agree, recruiting is the lifeblood of a program. However, without a competent coaching staff all that talent gets wasted on Saturdays.

 

[Rellyrell]

Randy Shannon signed the #1 class in 2008. That answers all your questions right there. SOME kids, like PP or PJ or whatever his name is today would have been a great individual player here. It wouldn't have made much of a difference, though. We'd still have stunk. He got better coaching where he went. Most kids that went elsewhere the last 15 years got better coaching where they went. That will change now.

And I agree, recruiting is the lifeblood of a program. However, without a competent coaching staff all that talent gets wasted on Saturdays.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The problem was the coaching, not the players.

 

[Moro]

Randy Shannon signed the #1 class in 2008. That answers all your questions right there. SOME kids, like PP or PJ or whatever his name is today would have been a great individual player here. It wouldn't have made much of a difference, though. We'd still have stunk. He got better coaching where he went. Most kids that went elsewhere the last 15 years got better coaching where they went. That will change now.

And I agree, recruiting is the lifeblood of a program. However, without a competent coaching staff all that talent gets wasted on Saturdays.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The problem was the coaching, not the players.

You two guys may not be guilty of this but I read so many posts on this site that say the 2001 Team won the NC based on talent. Some don't seem to understand that you need both good players and good coaching.

 

[Rellyrell]

Randy Shannon signed the #1 class in 2008. That answers all your questions right there. SOME kids, like PP or PJ or whatever his name is today would have been a great individual player here. It wouldn't have made much of a difference, though. We'd still have stunk. He got better coaching where he went. Most kids that went elsewhere the last 15 years got better coaching where they went. That will change now.

And I agree, recruiting is the lifeblood of a program. However, without a competent coaching staff all that talent gets wasted on Saturdays.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The problem was the coaching, not the players.

You two guys may not be guilty of this but I read so many posts on this site that say the 2001 Team won the NC based on talent. Some don't seem to understand that you need both good players and good coaching.

I hear you, but I think the 2001 team is a little different in that most of those guys had a culture installed in them b4 Slappy took over. Those were Butch's kids, u feel me? Once Butch's kids started graduating, that culture left and each year it got worst and worst as far as on field production. Historically, we've always had "good" recruiting classes since 2000 as compared to other schools who've been winning recently (Oregon, TCU, Baylor, Iowa, etc)...but our problem is we haven't established a winning culture with coaching. Slappy was lazy on the recruiting front, and could not make an adjustment to save his life. Randy tried too much to be a disciplinarian and forgot coaching. Al.....no comment.

2001 team was more of a stars aligned anamoly vs the norm.

 

[Moro]

Randy Shannon signed the #1 class in 2008. That answers all your questions right there. SOME kids, like PP or PJ or whatever his name is today would have been a great individual player here. It wouldn't have made much of a difference, though. We'd still have stunk. He got better coaching where he went. Most kids that went elsewhere the last 15 years got better coaching where they went. That will change now.

And I agree, recruiting is the lifeblood of a program. However, without a competent coaching staff all that talent gets wasted on Saturdays.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The problem was the coaching, not the players.

You two guys may not be guilty of this but I read so many posts on this site that say the 2001 Team won the NC based on talent. Some don't seem to understand that you need both good players and good coaching.

I hear you, but I think the 2001 team is a little different in that most of those guys had a culture installed in them b4 Slappy took over. Those were Butch's kids, u feel me? Once Butch's kids started graduating, that culture left and each year it got worst and worst as far as on field production. Historically, we've always had "good" recruiting classes since 2000 as compared to other schools who've been winning recently (Oregon, TCU, Baylor, Iowa, etc)...but our problem is we haven't established a winning culture with coaching. Slappy was lazy on the recruiting front, and could not make an adjustment to save his life. Randy tried too much to be a disciplinarian and forgot coaching. Al.....no comment.

2001 team was more of a stars aligned anamoly vs the norm.

What people forget is that Coker maintained the entire staff that Butch had until 2004 then he let go of the core of the staff that was critical in developing these players.

 

[ThomasM]

The 2001 team got good coaching before butch Davis left.

Randy Shannon signed the #1 class in 2008. That answers all your questions right there. SOME kids, like PP or PJ or whatever his name is today would have been a great individual player here. It wouldn't have made much of a difference, though. We'd still have stunk. He got better coaching where he went. Most kids that went elsewhere the last 15 years got better coaching where they went. That will change now.

And I agree, recruiting is the lifeblood of a program. However, without a competent coaching staff all that talent gets wasted on Saturdays.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The problem was the coaching, not the players.

You two guys may not be guilty of this but I read so many posts on this site that say the 2001 Team won the NC based on talent. Some don't seem to understand that you need both good players and good coaching.

 

[bobbydigius]

WW wasn't a bust because he went to Miami just as PP wasn't a beast because h went to LSU. Self made players. Willie was a physical beast but was older by a year than everybody.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Studs r studs no matter whocoaches, cook is cookat fsu because hes cook and cooks.

 

[Bunker Mentality]

Randy Shannon signed the #1 class in 2008. That answers all your questions right there. SOME kids, like PP or PJ or whatever his name is today would have been a great individual player here. It wouldn't have made much of a difference, though. We'd still have stunk. He got better coaching where he went. Most kids that went elsewhere the last 15 years got better coaching where they went. That will change now.

And I agree, recruiting is the lifeblood of a program. However, without a competent coaching staff all that talent gets wasted on Saturdays.

You took the words right out of my mouth. The problem was the coaching, not the players.

You two guys may not be guilty of this but I read so many posts on this site that say the 2001 Team won the NC based on talent. Some don't seem to understand that you need both good players and good coaching.

Residual coaching and recruiting from Butch. Larry took over reigns and we all know what happened.

 

[Bunker Mentality]

Studs r studs no matter whocoaches, cook is cookat fsu because hes cook and cooks.

See Duke Johnson and S. Taylor