The Problem Mario/We are Facing Going Forward(Long)

[Rellyrell]

Disagree for the need to have an elite level quarterback to win look at Iowa there offense couldn’t move the ball to save there life and won 10 games last year. Alabama with milroe he decent but not a elite quarterback. And if we changing offense coordinator go get me Brennan Marion to run the go-go offense or Jamarcus shephard from Washington.

This is a myopic viewpoint, which y I constantly beg this board to start watching other teams play vs. assuming.

Iowa was 7th in defense & dead last in Offense. They won 10 games b/c they faced:

6-7 Utah St (G5)
7-6 Iowa St (79th in O)
4-8 Western Michigan (G5)
4-8 MSU (125th in O)
4-8 Purdue (69th in O)
7-6 Wisky (68th in O)
8-5 NW (121st in O)
7-6 Rutgers (120th in O)
5-7 Illinois (60th in O)
5-7 Nebraska (115th in O)

So pls, let’s stop using Iowa as an example b/c they played not just a **** poor schedule, but they played collectively some of thee worst offenses all in the same season. The 4 games they lost, they scored a combined 10 points!

As far as Bama goes, Milroe started slow, but he finished 2,834 yards passing on 65.8% w/ 23 TDs & 6ints, & rushed for 531 yards & 12 TDs or 3,365 total yards & 35 total TDs.
Our ENTIRE QB room this season combined for 3,370 on 64.9% and 25 Total TDs & 14 ints.

 

[Meast21]

Would love to dump Dawson and hire Ken but odds of that are likely slim to none so not going to waste time thinking about it.

I assume Dawson stays because we need continuity and firing a 2nd OC in 2 years would be awful look for Mario/UM and make it very difficult to hire any good OC. They honestly just need to hire 1-2 GOOD offensive analysts to help Dawson:

1. Gameplan upfront (dude cant script a drive to save his life and some of his gameplans like NC State were beyond awful)
2. Call out adjustments needed during the game
3. Add new plays / wrinkles every game to keep DC's guessing and add in the creativity we lacked in 80% of games this year (imagine during bowl game if we highlighted the TE, threw a couple RB screens, few plays to CJ/Ray Ray in space, plus a few trick plays...Instead we ran all the same **** that Rutgers has seen us do on tape all year long...)

We clearly have the money so i honestly dont understand why we cant do this aside from pure stubborness/arrogance by Dawson & Mario to admit they need the help and then actually use it. So frustrating

 

[NCCanefan]

Mario has done an excellent job in acquiring talent, flipping the roster and remaking it with an emphasis on the trenches while beginning to stack elite skill talent as well. While his task here is hardly finished, he has been able to recruit at an elite level despite mediocre results in the field thus far in his first 2 seasons.

With the TVD era being over, the need to find a starting QB capable of taking this team and program to the next level has never been more apparent or more crucial. The all out pursuit of Cam Ward and subsequent failure to land him has brought two things to the forefront. The first being what I have already mentioned and that is just how badly this team is in need of a leader at the most important position who can provide consistently good to great play and elevate this offense to a point where we will be able to compete at a playoff level.

The second is more uncomfortable and the reason for this post. The problem Mario is faced with is the compounding and an exacerbation of the issue of perception that he came to Miami with in the first place. There was a growing perception that Mario was/is a destroyer of quarterbacks and by extension, offenses. He is known to be excessively conservative and a mediocre game day coach at best. Wether that perception was fair or not didn't matter. When he arrived in Miami one of the first things Mario should have gone out of his way to put to bed was that lingering negative reputation he had with QBs and with offense. That never happened and outside of the first 4 games of the 2023 season and the finale vs BC he actually double and tripled down on what is best described as a basic, slow, plodding, unimaginative and painfully conservative style of offense. The fact that this offense actually finished #26 in total offense was a minor miracle and a testament to the value of having a greatly improved offensive line.

However the problems weren't only in the style of offense. There were clearly issues with game management and Cristobal's style of game day coaching. In addition to this the inability to incorporate the game breaking speed available to this staff was jaw dropping. Players like Chris Johnson, Ray Ray Joseph and others went totally ignored while players like Brashard Smith were criminally underutilized. Shannon Dawson our second offensive coordinator in as many years was mostly not up to the task as he was unable or unwilling to do much outside of his base offense. Offensively we were routinely out coached and Dawson seemed to be unable to make teams pay for blitzing. Where were the screen passes? Where were the passes to the TEs? To the RBs? Where was the variation in the running game? Where was the development of the QBs?

Which brings us to the present. Mario had to know that in order to be able to get good to elite QBs to be interesting in coming here he had to be able to offer an appealing type of offense to play in and a staff to develop them. It is crystal clear that at this point we offer neither! For as detail oriented and organized as Mario is purported to be, I find it shocking that he couldn't look far enough into the future to realize that having Shannon Dawson as his OC/QB coach just wasn't going to cut it in terms of being able to compete with other programs for elite QB talent plain and simple. So what exactly are we in position to offer a QB who is in demand? What QB is seriously going to want to play in this offense? What QB do we expect to be blown away by what we can offer in terms of development?

So now what? So we stick with Dawson for the sake of continuity and hope that we magically find a QB in the portal and that said QB proves to be the missing piece that we needed to make Dawson's mediocre offense look somewhat palatable? Do we bring in a 3rd coordinator in as many years? As bad as the optics would be, I am actually in favor of moving on from Dawson if the right option presents itself. Put me down as being in favor of making Ken Dorsey an offer to be OC/QB coach. Pay him as much as you need to get him here. Please note that I'm not in the pro Dorsey camp because he is a "Miami guy bro" but because he is absolutely qualified, doesn't run a bro style offense, is a proven developer of QBs, is very cerebral and intelligent, plus being a storied alum he has a vested interest in seeing the program succeed. Also he is intensely competitive and the type of guy who would have absolutely no problem telling Mario to eat a bag of dycks should the situation present itself. Plus he is available. Dorsey just makes a lot of sense if he is willing but I'm completely open minded to other options either in the college or the pro ranks. What is the most important thing is that we make a move in order to position ourselves to be competitive in the QB market.

Zero chance.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

Zero chance.

Zero chance of what?

 

[NCCanefan]

60 million reasons Mario not going anywhere.

Dawson not getting booted as that would be two in a row.

Op subsequently said not really about Ken after using his name about 10x

And reportedly, Guidry on the way back home to Louisiana.

 

[JD08]

I don't think TVD was ruined by Mario. I think he was put in a position where he had to think more and wasn't up for it. He's just not that type of QB.

Mario needs to be more hands off with Dawson. But I'd gladly take Dorsey.

 

[Ironmanfootball]

Mario is a used car salesman that thinks he can convince any qb to buy a used Taurus so he doesn’t have to change his offense to impress anyone….hes that stubborn and that sure that he’s knows best…

Mario is more like Tony pushing Webistics.
Inflate the stock price (company is owned by Ruiz, of course) by recruiting 247's top list
Have your team of Jorge Drinkwater and Mike Rumphsmanti beg accounts to take down negative posts and only pump sunshine
Have Christopher Mirabalti babysit outside hires
But the entire program philosophy is (12) years behind, and "the stock's a dog" because you don't have QB, S&C program, or culture.

 

[NJshoreCane]

Mario has only WORSENED his reputation as a QB killer since he got here. Ruined TVD (blame whoever you want. But bottom line is TVD had VERY HIGH national expectations going into 2022 and now has transferred out of the school). Sent Jake Garcia to transfer..and then Jacurri Brown, the only remaining 4* on the roster, didn't touch the ball all year and almost transferred as well before the bowl game. He called TVD the best QB in the country..and then ran him off.

He needs a miracle to overcome it this year or the stigma will linger for a long time, if not forever. And unfortunately it's one of those self-fulfilling prophesies because he won't be able to acquire elite QB talent because of his reputation and therefore will never have elite QB talent.

He needs a QB to OUTPLAY expectations this year and he needs TVD to underperform again.

If the opposite happens? It may become a mountain too high to climb for Mario. He will cement his methodical bro-ball legacy forever and become a Wisconsin of the South. A perennial 8-10 win team that never reaches the peak.

I still think it's ironic that TVD left Mario to get to a more QB friendly scheme and went to Wisconsin . The perennial title holder of slow/methodical/bro-ball offenses during the last 2 decades (I understand that's not completely accurate and it's changing, but they definitely are known for that).

To be fair, TVD went to Phil Longo.
You did qualify your statement though.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

60 million reasons Mario not going anywhere.

Dawson not getting booted as that would be two in a row.

Op subsequently said not really about Ken after using his name about 10x

And reportedly, Guidry on the way back home to Louisiana.

The comment about Mario not leaving is a typical strawman argument as I clearly never broached the possibility of Mario leaving. Reading my post it is clear that Ken is not the central theme. The fact that you have trouble discerning that is puzzling to me.
The the post was about not having the coaching necessary to attract competent to very good QBs. I used Ken's name as an example of a hire that would give us the type of credibility needed to successfully recruit QBs to UM. He is a very convenient example but I clearly stated that I'm open to anyone from pro or college.

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

Man I'm amazed at some of the commenters who actually seem to be rooting for Mario to fail just so they can be right when they look back.

"Worst game day coach in the history!" I mean is he? Football has been around a looooong time. Or is the porster who said that just ignorant and salty that we stink? Odds are it's the latter.

"Mario said TVD was best QB in the country then ran him off." Is it possible TVD is/became a head case and that Mario was trying to put positive feedback into the press? Did TVD run himself off? What else was Mario going to say to the press, my QB sucks but I'm playing him anyway?

"Mario is a QB killer and that reputation prevents others from coming here." Didn't Justin Herbert go to Oregon? While Mario was there? Same Justin Herbert who was drafted early and won the Rookie of the Year? Amazing that Herbert could do all that at the pro level in spite of Mario.

Before you reply calling me a slurper, take a bong rip and relax. That's not the point. I recognize that Mario still has 2 time outs from the bowl game to keep with him on the golf course or recruiting trail this summer. I realize he probably thinks of GT every time he kneels while entering a 5 stars residence on an in-home visit. I clearly see his lack of ingenuity on offense. Again, slurping Mario isn't the point. The point is this chest thumping pride that oozes out of some people's porsts on CiS. Why would you actively root against the coach of your team? Especially only after year 2? For as much as I wanted Al Golden the F outta here toward the end, I never actively rooted against him while he was corch, aside from the second half of the Clemson game.

Go Canes

 

[Disgustipated]

Mario is just horrific once the ball is kicked off.

 

[Canegrad89]

Ken is staying in the NFL. He likes it there. He is not coming back.

Ken may prefer the NFL but what if he doesn't receive any quality NFL OC offers? That might cause him to re-consider his options.

Going to a bad NFL team could literally end his NFL coaching career (and there are many bad NFL teams).

Miami offers stability because Mario isn't going anywhere for a long time and Ken would be given every chance to succeed here over a long period of time. Miami would be a great situation for Ken. The Not For Long league is ruthless so if he ends up on the wrong team he could be out of the NFL fast. How long did his stay at Buffalo last?

 

[sdaly12]

Aside from him having an epiphany and going and hiring a top 10 OC like Longo or Ludwig, who also have a track record of recruiting and developing QBs, and letting them have virtually complete control of the offense, I don’t know what move Mario can make to fix the offense and the trajectory of the team

some people have the self awareness to "know what they do not know" Mario lacks that type of introspection ! Mario needs to hire a a great OC and leave him alone.......
i know a lot of people complain about how long it takes for him to make decisions...... i think it would surprise us how many people have said NO due to his caveman ball conservative game plans and awful game day management and micro management
style.......

 

[sdaly12]

Ken may prefer the NFL but what if he doesn't receive any quality NFL OC offers? That might cause him to re-consider his options.

Going to a bad NFL team could literally end his NFL coaching career (and there are many bad NFL teams).

Miami offers stability because Mario isn't going anywhere for a long time and Ken would be given every chance to succeed here over a long period of time. Miami would be a great situation for Ken. The Not For Long league is ruthless so if he ends up on the wrong team he could be out of the NFL fast. How long did his stay at Buffalo last?

my only hesitation is guys coming from the NFL, seem to consider scoring period ( preponderance)of FG's period due to parity of talent.
college game is all about scoring TD's and sometimes a " stop" can be considered a FG......would hire an"ace" college OC
and let him ride.

 

[Brometheus]

Mario has a chance if he can finally learn some game management and trust his OC and DC to make the right decisions while he recruits his *** off. That's his formula for success if he wants to have a shot.

 

[Canestomp]

Mario has done an excellent job in acquiring talent, flipping the roster and remaking it with an emphasis on the trenches while beginning to stack elite skill talent as well. While his task here is hardly finished, he has been able to recruit at an elite level despite mediocre results in the field thus far in his first 2 seasons.

With the TVD era being over, the need to find a starting QB capable of taking this team and program to the next level has never been more apparent or more crucial. The all out pursuit of Cam Ward and subsequent failure to land him has brought two things to the forefront. The first being what I have already mentioned and that is just how badly this team is in need of a leader at the most important position who can provide consistently good to great play and elevate this offense to a point where we will be able to compete at a playoff level.

The second is more uncomfortable and the reason for this post. The problem Mario is faced with is the compounding and an exacerbation of the issue of perception that he came to Miami with in the first place. There was a growing perception that Mario was/is a destroyer of quarterbacks and by extension, offenses. He is known to be excessively conservative and a mediocre game day coach at best. Wether that perception was fair or not didn't matter. When he arrived in Miami one of the first things Mario should have gone out of his way to put to bed was that lingering negative reputation he had with QBs and with offense. That never happened and outside of the first 4 games of the 2023 season and the finale vs BC he actually double and tripled down on what is best described as a basic, slow, plodding, unimaginative and painfully conservative style of offense. The fact that this offense actually finished #26 in total offense was a minor miracle and a testament to the value of having a greatly improved offensive line.

However the problems weren't only in the style of offense. There were clearly issues with game management and Cristobal's style of game day coaching. In addition to this the inability to incorporate the game breaking speed available to this staff was jaw dropping. Players like Chris Johnson, Ray Ray Joseph and others went totally ignored while players like Brashard Smith were criminally underutilized. Shannon Dawson our second offensive coordinator in as many years was mostly not up to the task as he was unable or unwilling to do much outside of his base offense. Offensively we were routinely out coached and Dawson seemed to be unable to make teams pay for blitzing. Where were the screen passes? Where were the passes to the TEs? To the RBs? Where was the variation in the running game? Where was the development of the QBs?

Which brings us to the present. Mario had to know that in order to be able to get good to elite QBs to be interested in coming here he had to be able to offer an appealing type of offense to play in and a staff to develop them. It is crystal clear that at this point we offer neither! For as detail oriented and organized as Mario is purported to be, I find it shocking that he couldn't look far enough into the future to realize that having Shannon Dawson as his OC/QB coach just wasn't going to cut it in terms of being able to compete with other programs for elite QB talent plain and simple. So what exactly are we in position to offer a QB who is in demand? What QB is seriously going to want to play in this offense? What QB do we expect to be blown away by what we can offer in terms of development?

So now what? So we stick with Dawson for the sake of continuity and hope that we magically find a QB in the portal and that said QB proves to be the missing piece that we needed to make Dawson's mediocre offense look somewhat palatable? Do we bring in a 3rd coordinator in as many years? As bad as the optics would be, I am actually in favor of moving on from Dawson if the right option presents itself. Put me down as being in favor of making Ken Dorsey an offer to be OC/QB coach. Pay him as much as you need to get him here. Please note that I'm not in the pro Dorsey camp because he is a "Miami guy bro" but because he is absolutely qualified, doesn't run a bro style offense, is a proven developer of QBs, is very cerebral and intelligent, plus being a storied alum he has a vested interest in seeing the program succeed. Also he is intensely competitive and the type of guy who would have absolutely no problem telling Mario to eat a bag of dycks should the situation present itself. Plus he is available. Dorsey just makes a lot of sense if he is willing but I'm completely open minded to other options either in the college or the pro ranks. Assuming we keep Dawson because the optics of having a 3rd OC in 3 years would look bad then we need to bring in a proven QB coach to help him out or maybe bring in another offensive coach as an "offensive assistant" to help Dawson diversify the offense. The most important thing is that we make a move, any move in order to better position ourselves to be competitive in the QB market.

Has there ever been a coach in football that was not well-received for his gameday coaching but eventually shed that perception to become a decent gameday coach? Since were stuck with him for a few years at least, I am curious if maybe this is something he can professionally grow out of with time and experience.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

Has there ever been a coach in football that was not well-received for his gameday coaching but eventually shed that perception to become a decent gameday coach? Since were stuck with him for a few years at least, I am curious if maybe this is something he can professionally grow out of with time and experience.

That's a great question. I've heard the Butch Davis comparisons but I don't know how comparable they are. I can't remember Davis during the early part of his tenure here as far as how bad the game day coaching was.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

Would love to dump Dawson and hire Ken but odds of that are likely slim to none so not going to waste time thinking about it.

I assume Dawson stays because we need continuity and firing a 2nd OC in 2 years would be awful look for Mario/UM and make it very difficult to hire any good OC. They honestly just need to hire 1-2 GOOD offensive analysts to help Dawson:

1. Gameplan upfront (dude cant script a drive to save his life and some of his gameplans like NC State were beyond awful)
2. Call out adjustments needed during the game
3. Add new plays / wrinkles every game to keep DC's guessing and add in the creativity we lacked in 80% of games this year (imagine during bowl game if we highlighted the TE, threw a couple RB screens, few plays to CJ/Ray Ray in space, plus a few trick plays...Instead we ran all the same **** that Rutgers has seen us do on tape all year long...)

We clearly have the money so i honestly dont understand why we cant do this aside from pure stubborness/arrogance by Dawson & Mario to admit they need the help and then actually use it. So frustrating

I'm all for hiring the right analysts to help Dawson. We just need to do something.

 

[miamiphd]

However the problems weren't only in the style of offense. There were clearly issues with game management and Cristobal's style of game day coaching. In addition to this the inability to incorporate the game breaking speed available to this staff was jaw dropping. Players like Chris Johnson, Ray Ray Joseph and others went totally ignored while players like Brashard Smith were criminally underutilized. Shannon Dawson our second offensive coordinator in as many years was mostly not up to the task as he was unable or unwilling to do much outside of his base offense. Offensively we were routinely out coached and Dawson seemed to be unable to make teams pay for blitzing. Where were the screen passes? Where were the passes to the TEs? To the RBs? Where was the variation in the running game? Where was the development of the QBs?

This says it all for me. Not sure who the OC is matters if the HC insists that the offense follow his preferences. Mario has to give up play calling and game planning. Let the OC and DC handle those tasks. Dawson might or might now work out. The problem is that we will never know for sure about the OC as long as Mario imposes his will on the offense. Unless Mario backs off, bringing in a new OC will probably result in the same stuff mentioned by the OP.