The # Of Available Spots Left Going Into 2019 (Chart)...

[RomeoJunior]

***Updated W/Transfers As of 1/29/2018***

This is a topic that gives a great deal of confusion over and over. Thought it might be useful to actually go back and count from when we signed 32 and have had no choice but to forward-count afterwards. Per 247's enrollment dates of our kids that seems from articles to be accurate,...we went on to have:

I.C. = Initial Qualifier (spots)

2014: 22 + Jake Heaps (2 ICs unused)

2015: 23 + G. Willis + Vogel & Bagley (Walk-On Kickers, Delayed) = 26 - 2 EEs = 24. 25-24 = 1 slot for Spr2016.

2016: 19+Colbert(transfer)+G. Brown (transfer)+Williams(transfer) = 22. 22-1 = 21. 25-21 = 4 for Spr17

2017 = 25 - 4 = 21. 25-121 = 4 again for Spr2018.

Rather than looking for more hidden transfers or enrollees missed, I'll wait for dissension.
Anywho,...this potential history leaves for 2017's midyear class...

The 1st # = Initial Counter used.
The superscript ='s the NLI # used.
We get 25 of both.


***Updated***





Being roughly (if not exactly) accurate, it's understandable why we just threw Tito a bone for a year. He apparently used up the
last NLOI signing spot we had available from the 2017 class. Was going to waste away if no one signed and started right away in the Spring.

If you notice Dee Delaney and others did not used one,...well,...that's because of the rule change. Anywho,...criticize away.

 

[Papa_Cane]

Good stuff. So what does this mean with the remaining spots for 2018 and potentially how many kids we can sign in 2019?

 

[RomeoJunior]

We obviously can't speak on the QUALITY of these kids until they prove their worth.

But the organization and the method they are using is -- to me -- phenomenal at this point. They clearly have a PLAN.

They are taking advantage of both counting rules, and leaving spots open for possible Fall, Summer, and Spring enrollees by leaving the current Initial Counter spots wide open before the February signing day,...on into Fall camp.

Contrary to popular belief,....we are not limited in February by how many signings we can make (25),...and how many initial counters we can bring in (24). We are only limited by the 85-man limit. If another kid happens to leave, another spot to sign and enroll immediately opens.

So in short,.... He can get guys in early next Spring that have the grades and truly want to be Canes. If there are 12 additional enrollees by Fall Camp,...he has another 12 signings in December he can push back to 2018 once again.

And he can wait it out for kids that are praying on qualifying scores to come back that will graduate right before the Summer. The best of both worlds.,...unlike LSU at the moment that only have 4 spots,....lol

And a coach like Saban isint a big fan of not being able to cherrypick at the last second with his February class,...and all the way up until May... being that alot of his possible cherries are now fully signed in December. So potentially,..you can see the benefit if we're getting the right kids in.

The rules are much different,...but honestly,...we havent seen this type of organization with roster spots since the Butch Davis days.

 

[Mbecks22]

Good thread

Would read again

 

[pcitycane]

Always been a fan of OP. You should drop in more.

 

[Canes1968]

Appreciate the attempt OP, but this information is extremely inaccurate.

 

[Billy D Williams]

I love facts in this world of opinions

 

[TexasCane90]

Thanks for putting in the time OP

Appreciate it

 

[Canes1968]

We obviously can't speak on the QUALITY of these kids until they prove their worth.

But the organization and the method they are using is -- to me -- phenomenal at this point. They clearly have a PLAN.

They are taking advantage of both counting rules, and leaving spots open for possible Fall, Summer, and Spring enrollees by leaving the current Initial Counter spots wide open before the February signing day,...on into Fall camp.

Contrary to popular belief,....we are not limited in February by how many signings we can make (25),...and how many initial counters we can bring in (24). We are only limited by the 85-man limit. If another kid happens to leave, another spot to sign and enroll immediately opens.

So in short,.... He can get guys in early next Spring that have the grades and truly want to be Canes. If there are 12 additional enrollees by Fall Camp,...he has another 12 signings in December he can push back to 2018 once again.

And he can wait it out for kids that are praying on qualifying scores to come back that will graduate right before the Summer. The best of both worlds.,...unlike LSU at the moment that only have 4 spots,....lol

And a coach like Saban isint a big fan of not being able to cherrypick at the last second with his February class,...and all the way up until May... being that alot of his possible cherries are now fully signed in December. So potentially,..you can see the benefit if we're getting the right kids in.

The rules are much different,...but honestly,...we havent seen this type of organization with roster spots since the Butch Davis days.

Everything about this post is wrong. You don't understand the rules.

 

[AutoCANE]

Appreciate the attempt OP, but this information is extremely inaccurate.

Is it? Please elaborate. This is the clearest, most concise attempt I have seen yet to date to try to make sense of the initial counter / who is attributed to what class confusion. I will assume the information is accurate as shown until it is proven otherwise. Good day sir.

 

[Canes1968]

Appreciate the attempt OP, but this information is extremely inaccurate.

Is it? Please elaborate. This is the clearest, most concise attempt I have seen yet to date to try to make sense of the initial counter / who is attributed to what class confusion. I will assume the information is accurate as shown until it is proven otherwise. Good day sir.

His analysis shows a clear lack of understanding of the NCAA rules, and quite frankly, I'm not even sure where to begin. The biggest error he makes is that he assumes that early enrollees always count toward the previous year's class. That is patently incorrect. EE's only count toward the previous year's class to the extent that we did not use all of the 25 initial counters we are allowed for that class.

Here is the bottom line.

1. Each school gets a limit of 25 initial counters per academic year. Any student-athlete that is granted financial aid for the first time at an institution during that academic year counts against that limit. This includes kids recruited out of high school and all transfers (including graduate transfers). There are generally only two exceptions to this. 1) A walk-on who has been enrolled for at least 2 years and is given a scholarship, does not count against that limit (but does count against the 85 roster limit). Also, there is a mid-year replacement rule that allows schools to replace a mid-year graduate with a new scholarship athlete. In that instance, although the new scholarship athlete is receiving financial aid in advance of the subsequent academic year, he will count against the initial counter limit for the subsequent year. For example, KC McDermott graduated in December 2017. This allowed us to bring in an early enrollee to replace him. Even though that early enrollee will receive financial aid for the 2nd semester of the 2017/2018 academic year, that early enrollee will count against the initial counter limit for the 2018/2019 academic year (i.e., the 2018 class).

2. Schools are now limited in the number of NLI's that can be signed to the number of initial financial aid awards that can be granted (i.e., 25). This prevents schools from oversigning in order to account for non-qualifiers or to gray shirt kids. Under this new rule, if a recruit signs an NLI but doesn't qualify, the spot is lost forever. It cannot be replaced with another player in either the current academic year or the subsequent academic year.

 

[ShadowSpring]

Good work!!

 

[RomeoJunior]

The biggest error he makes is that he assumes that early enrollees always count toward the previous year's class. That is patently incorrect.

In Jan. of 2017,...our EEs were allowed to count towards our previous year,... if we had the available spots in the previous year. I'm saying we had 10 I.C. spots still available,...and showed you why we did. I'll just screenshot the exception so we're on the same page....

You have to keep in mind that the current academic year for Spring of 2017 enrollees are primarily ATTACHED to the class of 2016 signings,...that showed up the Fall of 2016. Remember that the Academic Calendar goes from the Fall of 1 Year thru the Summer of the NEXT Year (but for our purposes, they make Summers null and void for counting back).

View attachment 57471

Reread the EXCEPTION.

DeeJay Dallas and crew did not have to count against our 25 signings allowed because they enrolled midyear. They were free,..signing-wise. To quote the manual, they were I.C.'s at practice AND STUDENTS for the SAME academic year (2016-2017),... if the 10 spots were there. So they did not count against our 25 signings limit. Dee

This was BEFORE the new manual (as of 8/1/17) forces you to either push midyear signings either forwards or backwards. We had 14 kids count as signings for

Initial Counters is another story,...and again,...based on my research of pushing initial counters back,...we had 10 available to allow them to fill.
Dee Delaney made 11,...so we had to count him forward as an I.C.,...(and we may have had to count him forward as a signing too,...which I did not mention. That's give or take a signing that does not affect the main thing, which is the initial counter list.)

Either way,....Everyone that came in the Fall of 2017 did count against the 2017-18 25 I.C.s, however.

EE's only count toward the previous year's class to the extent that we did not use all of the 25 initial counters we are allowed for that class.

You're probably not understanding the chain-reaction sequence. Because the previous class probably had more allowances than you thought because the class before that did not use all of them, and so on, and so on.

Here is the bottom line.
1. Each school gets a limit of 25 initial counters per academic year. Any student-athlete that is granted financial aid for the first time at an institution during that academic year counts against that limit.

....and the 2017-18 academic year is attached to the 2017 class and the kids that came in then. Where you're losing track is the fact that midyear enrollees CAN count against that same 2017-18 year that the 2017 Fall kids came in under,...or can count against 2018.



Midyear enrollees are not chained down,...which is where the confusion comes in.

If you take the time to count forward from our class of 32 earlier this decade (with basically no I.C. spots available the next year to confuse things),...you're going to find a # of kids in future classes were able to leave I.C. spots open for the next year,...as this rule above has for years allowed.

I know, I know,...it's confusing. But do the homework and you should find roughly the same.

 

[calinative umstudent]

IF All the EE's from the 2017 class were able to be back-counted, you'd be correct that we'd have 35 possible new initial counters to use. But theres about no chance that is true. Secondly the 85 man roster limit would only allow us to bring in a maximum of 31 new players. And we still aren't really sure if any walk ons will have a scholarship.

We honestly have no idea how many initial counters we have to work with between the 2017 and 2018 class, because that info is not released. What we do know is that Richt said expect a max class of 28. I think we are going to have to wait until nsd and see how many initial counters we are bringing in to see if that is true though. Right now we are at 21 initial counters for this season and are still going after:

Marquez Ezzard
Nesta Silvera, Andrew Chatfield, Keondre Coburn, Dennis Briggs, Jamarcus Chatman, Michael Thompson, and Dorian Gerald
Xavier Peters
Nigel Bethel, Tyson Campbell, Patrick Surtain

Now obviously not EVERY single one of these guys are takes. If some player commits, it could pull a scholarship away from one of the others and ****. Getting 5 more commits (because Nesta and Bethel are already commited) would put us at 28.

Pretty soon though, the 25 initial counter limit wont really matter for us because the 85 roster limit will be the one truly limiting us. For instance, if we have NO attrition except for the senior graduating, We'd only have about 18 spots in the 2019 class. And it'd be similar or smaller for 2020 too.

 

[jackbenimble71]

we are at 21 commits....we close with ezzard, chatfield, coburn, briggs, chatman, campbell and surtain...ill take that

 

[GR8]

Nesta?

 

[da canes 305]

or bethel

 

[RomeoJunior]

Canes1968....EE's are the key to being able to push I.C.s back instead if being forced to use your upcoming 25.

I wont rule out the chance that Golden couldve completely effed something unforeseen up.

But using 247Sports enrollment list...I will later detail exactly why there shouldve been 10 for EEs the last 2 yrs.

 

[Canes1968]

Canes1968....EE's are the key to being able to push I.C.s back instead if being forced to use your upcoming 25.

I wont rule out the chance that Golden couldve completely effed something unforeseen up.

But using 247Sports enrollment list...I will later detail exactly why there shouldve been 10 for EEs the last 2 yrs.

Sorry, but your analysis is completely wrong. You either don't understand the rules you are reading or you've misinterpreted them.

 

[DerekDohrman]

Canes1968....EE's are the key to being able to push I.C.s back instead if being forced to use your upcoming 25.

I wont rule out the chance that Golden couldve completely effed something unforeseen up.

But using 247Sports enrollment list...I will later detail exactly why there shouldve been 10 for EEs the last 2 yrs.

so, youre operating under the assumption that the 32 member 2012 class completely maxed out our initial counter's correct? If so, I think we can agree to start from the same place moving forward.