forums

The Lost Class of 2004

Advertisement
Recruiting site evlas have improved since the early 2000’s but you still see teams doing the exact same thing today. Teams like Tennessee and USC (until last year) have been pulling consistent too 10 classes but they rarely surpass 8 wins. I think sometimes coaches get too caught up in measureables instead of saying “can this kid succeed in the system we run?” Because it’s not a one size fits all type of thing. We had gotten so caught up in the “NFL U” hype we started only chasing players who looked the part. All our receivers were 6’3” but they all sucked.
 
To OP. Give clappy some credit for 2001 class. Butch wasn’t even recruiting Frank Gore who was committed to Miss when Butch bolted. Coker also responsible for landing several others.
 
This is the visual that sticks with me when thinking about the 2004 recruiting class.

Sometimes the ranking is very close, but the level of talent is very far apart.

1588767747920.png
 
Last edited:
Rellyrell said:
I look at our old games on YouTube, and we looked intimidating. Everyone looked like grown men; kinda like LSU, Bama, OSU, and Clemson kids. We miss the **** outta Moffitt, too. That dude was intense, was not w the bull chit, and made sure these guys muscle fibers hurt from strain & exhaustion. 99 degrees at the OB? No problem.

I look at our kids now, and we legit look like a high school varsity team, man. Some look like grown men, but the greater majority look like kids, no intimidation. That dancing chit had me almost in tears from anger.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree!! MIAMI teams now look like a bunch of high school boys... It almost looks like our player's don't even participate in weight lifting, you don't see the "Buff Bagwell" "mean football looking guys".... Our OLine guys look soft, our WRs & DBs are skinny and boney, our safety's are short, MIAMI just don't have those guys that when they get off the bus ppl are saying "wow they look like a NFL team".... When our CANES get off the bus ppl are asking "Is this MIAMI the college team🤦🏾‍♂️"

And HONESTLY, I think this hurts recruiting as well because these kid's travel around and see all these different teams and when these recruits see MIAMI, they feel like they looking at their HS team...

I went to the LSU/Texas A&M game in Baton Rouge, and I swear these player's looked like football players... These guys were big, and I'm not talking bout fat big!! JUST SAYING
 
Advertisement
Rellyrell said:
You know we've been talking about attrition or guys who bust that's walked through these hallowed doors for a while. We've been talking about culture problems, and it's origin here. I think we can pin point 2004 as the beginning of the end of the era of "The U."

Per 247, Butch Davis' last 3 classes (1999, 2000, and 2001) ranked #1, #7, and #8 respectively (although I believe the 2001 class may be off).
These classes also produced uber players:
-Ken Dorsey / Bryant McKinnie / Jarrett Payton / Clinton Portis / Andre Johnson / Vernon Carey / Kevin Beard / Jason Geathers / Mo Sikes / Phillip Buchanon / DJ Williams / Willis McGahee / Carlos Joseph / Vince Wilfork / Chris Meyers / Jon Vilma / Derrick Crudup / Darrell McGlover / Joel Rodriguez / ST26 / Frank Gore / Orien Harris / Antrel Rolle

I mean we're talking about the who's who of CFB, and NFL. Butch completely knocked it out the park obviously.

2002 - 2003 were really good classes under Clappy as well. Those classes ranked #5 and #4 respectively, which featured:
Baraka Atkins / Glenn Sharpe / Kareem Brown / Jon Peattie / Greg Threat / Darnell Jenkins / Brandon Meriweather / Baby Moss / Ryan Moore / Akieem Jolla / Eric Winston / Devin Hester / Jon Beason / Kevin Everett / B Pata (RIP) / Tavares Gooden / Ty Moss / Greg Olsen / Kyle Wright

Not bad for a two year hall to supplement the 2001 class.

But then inexplicably, 2004 happened; and quite frankly, I don't recall any of these blue chip guys:

This class was ranked #3, but I'm not sure who really played a meaningful down or had an impact besides Calais Campbell, Leggett (kind of) and Charlie Jones:
Tyler McMeans / LoVon Ponder / Derron Thomas / Tyrone Byrd / Willie Williams / Joe Joseph / Rashaun Jones / Anthony Reddick (Mr. Helmet swinger) / Antonio Dixon / Chris Zellner / Carlos Armour / Khalil Jones / George Timmons / Josh Kerr / Andrew Johnson / Rhyan Anderson / Dwayne Hendricks / Bobby Washington / Kirby Freeman

We're talking about **** near the entire class either not making it in or being straight bust. How does this happen?

Then 2005 happened (ranked 9th) where we saw the same thing that happened w/ the 2004 class sans Kenny Phillips and Darryl Sharpton
Then 2006 happened (ranked 12th)

2004 was that pivotal class where it looked good on paper, but was bull chit. And that trend has overtaken us ever since. We haven't had a complete class where majority of it's players either dominated or contributed since 2003.
Click to expand...


Look at the difference in personality types between Butch’s classes and Cokers classes. Both classes had “talent” but there’s a big difference in personality types. Butch targeted alphas, guys who would put the work in and hold others accountable. Coker targeted rankings (talent), and ended up with a bunch of guys who wanted to walk into the league. That’s where the culture took a turn.
 
Rellyrell said:
I look at our old games on YouTube, and we looked intimidating. Everyone looked like grown men; kinda like LSU, Bama, OSU, and Clemson kids. We miss the **** outta Moffitt, too. That dude was intense, was not w the bull chit, and made sure these guys muscle fibers hurt from strain & exhaustion. 99 degrees at the OB? No problem.

I look at our kids now, and we legit look like a high school varsity team, man. Some look like grown men, but the greater majority look like kids, no intimidation. That dancing chit had me almost in tears from anger.
Click to expand...
I swear, if I knew how to edit audio and video, I'd put "Dancing Queen" over the videos of our players dancing, and send it straight to Manny Diaz.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Thank you. I have been on the topic of the '04 class for years! It's literally the bullet in the forehead of this program. It was the single worst class we have ever had at the U. Forget the rankings. Coker recruited like a grandma trying to figure out a shell game in Times Square. He went for every **** banana in every **** tailpipe.

He took 28 kids. Only 1!!!! was a good player at UM, and that kid (CC) went pro early after a disappointing / injured junior year. So we got one good season out of the whole class. Charlie Jones and Chris Zellner were probably the next two best contributors in the class. Just a catastrophic failure. It actually defies probability. We'd have done better randomly taking commitments from 3* kids in So Fla. Much better.

Mind you, this was after a bad '02 class and a pretty bad '03 class. Very, very little depth behind a few front-liners in either class. Pile on '04 and you can see how riddled out the roster was. Nolady pointed this out back when and UM fans didn't want to hear it. He was right. It was impossible to recover from that without a great evaluator. Sadly, the AD didn't even understand what was going on. So they hired a few seat warmers and the parade of horribles continued.

'02: Winston, Threatt, Meriweather, Sharp
'03: Olsen, Beason, Gooden, Hester, Morse
Click to expand...

Good write up.

1994 to me was what killed the great Schnelly-JJ-Erickson run and started the downfall, and was our worst class ever. Calais Campbell was worth 10x more than the entire 1994 class alone:). People forget that Erickson really screwed up recruiting AND evaluations. List guy. Him and Larry Coker must play cards together somewhere out there these days.

1994's class, while HIGHLY REGARDED as a top 5 or top 10 class (also small because we whiffed on a few key guys) had few even decent players, and a litany of busts, and zero NFL talent. Some huge recruits like Binion, Brooks, Rolle, Taylor, Neely, Clement that were national names. The nations #1 DL class alone, a massive need at the time, and with so many 'ships allocated to it, was a program killer:

QB Ryan Clement (Denver, Co.)
QB Scott Covington (Laguna Niguel, Calif.)

Tight End:
Bryan Bippen (Midland, Texas).

OL: NONE

RB: NONE

WR Omar Rolle of Miami Norland
WR Tony Gaiter of Miami Killian by way of San Bernardino (Calif.) Community College

DL:
Cameron Binion (Orchard Lake, Mich.),
Damond Neely (Roslyn, Penn.),
Jason McCullough (Potomac, Md.),
Nelson Smith (Albuquerque, N.M.)
Michael Lawson (Delray Beach Atlantic);
Derrick Ham (Merritt Island)

Linebackers:
Nate Stimson (Wellington)
Carlo Joseph (Deerfield Beach) - moved to FB
Jeffrey Taylor (Miami Northwestern)
Cliff Jackson (Lanett, Ala.)

(The) Defensive back:
Nathaniel Brooks (North Miami)


Miami Southridge linebacker Lamont Green and Miami Beach defensive back Samari Rolle signed with Florida State. Green and Rolle were considered to be the best two players in Dade County.

Look at that. We spent 6 rides on 6 bust DL, and took a total of 5 players on offense, two of which were QBs.

McCullough ended up leaving and walking on at Nebraska.
Stimson transfered to GT after one year. Think he was a late draft pick and didn't make a roster.
Gaiter ended up a 6th round pick (the class gem!)
Covington was a 7th round pick.
Clement signed with the NFL... as in the NFL Europe's Scottish Claymores! He played in the XFL too.

1994 doesn't get talked about so much because it was before recruiting was followed so intently, but those who know the program talk know what this class did to us. 1994 says hold my beer.
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
Advertisement
AlixCane said:
Good write up.

1994 to me was what killed the great Schnelly-JJ-Erickson run and started the downfall, and was our worst class ever. Calais Campbell was worth 10x more than the entire 1994 class alone:). People forget that Erickson really screwed up recruiting AND evaluations. List guy. Him and Larry Coker must play cards together somewhere out there these days.

1994's class, while HIGHLY REGARDED as a top 5 or top 10 class (also small because we whiffed on a few key guys) had a few decent players, and a litany of busts, and zero NFL talent. Some huge recruits like Binion, Brooks, Rolle, Taylor, Neely, Clement that were national names. The nations #1 DL class alone, a massive need at the time, and with so many 'ships allocated to it, was a program killer:

QB Ryan Clement (Denver, Co.)
QB Scott Covington (Laguna Niguel, Calif.)

Tight End:
Bryan Bippen (Midland, Texas).

WR Omar Rolle of Miami Norland
WR Tony Gaiter of Miami Killian by way of San Bernardino (Calif.) Community College

DL:
Cameron Binion (Orchard Lake, Mich.),
Damond Neely (Roslyn, Penn.),
Jason McCullough (Potomac, Md.),
Nelson Smith (Albuquerque, N.M.)
Michael Lawson (Delray Beach Atlantic);
Derrick Ham (Merritt Island)

Linebackers:
Nate Stimson (Wellington)
Carlo Joseph (Deerfield Beach) - moved to FB
Jeffrey Taylor (Miami Northwestern)
Cliff Jackson (Lanett, Ala.)

Defensive backs:
Nathaniel Brooks (North Miami)


Miami Southridge linebacker Lamont Green and Miami Beach defensive back Samari Rolle signed with Florida State. Green and Rolle were considered to be the best two players in Dade County.

McCullough ended up leaving and walking on at Nebraska.
Stimson transfered to GT after one year. Think he was a late draft pick and didn't make a roster.
Gaiter ended up a 6th round pick (the class gem!)
Covington was a 7th round pick.
Clement signed with the NFL... as in the NFL Europe's Scottish Claymores! He played in the XFL too.

1994 doesn't get talked about so much because it was before recruiting was followed so intently, but those who know the program talk know what this class did to us. 1994 says hold my beer.
Click to expand...
100% agreed. I don’t forget. Erickson was the guy who crashed the program the first time. Terrible evaluator.
 
Advertisement
If
Rellyrell said:
You know we've been talking about attrition or guys who bust that's walked through these hallowed doors for a while. We've been talking about culture problems, and it's origin here. I think we can pin point 2004 as the beginning of the end of the era of "The U."

Per 247, Butch Davis' last 3 classes (1999, 2000, and 2001) ranked #1, #7, and #8 respectively (although I believe the 2001 class may be off).
These classes also produced uber players:
-Ken Dorsey / Bryant McKinnie / Jarrett Payton / Clinton Portis / Andre Johnson / Vernon Carey / Kevin Beard / Jason Geathers / Mo Sikes / Phillip Buchanon / DJ Williams / Willis McGahee / Carlos Joseph / Vince Wilfork / Chris Meyers / Jon Vilma / Derrick Crudup / Darrell McGlover / Joel Rodriguez / ST26 / Frank Gore / Orien Harris / Antrel Rolle

I mean we're talking about the who's who of CFB, and NFL. Butch completely knocked it out the park obviously.

2002 - 2003 were really good classes under Clappy as well. Those classes ranked #5 and #4 respectively, which featured:
Baraka Atkins / Glenn Sharpe / Kareem Brown / Jon Peattie / Greg Threat / Darnell Jenkins / Brandon Meriweather / Baby Moss / Ryan Moore / Akieem Jolla / Eric Winston / Devin Hester / Jon Beason / Kevin Everett / B Pata (RIP) / Tavares Gooden / Ty Moss / Greg Olsen / Kyle Wright

Not bad for a two year hall to supplement the 2001 class.

But then inexplicably, 2004 happened; and quite frankly, I don't recall any of these blue chip guys:

This class was ranked #3, but I'm not sure who really played a meaningful down or had an impact besides Calais Campbell, Leggett (kind of) and Charlie Jones:
Tyler McMeans / LoVon Ponder / Derron Thomas / Tyrone Byrd / Willie Williams / Joe Joseph / Rashaun Jones / Anthony Reddick (Mr. Helmet swinger) / Antonio Dixon / Chris Zellner / Carlos Armour / Khalil Jones / George Timmons / Josh Kerr / Andrew Johnson / Rhyan Anderson / Dwayne Hendricks / Bobby Washington / Kirby Freeman

We're talking about **** near the entire class either not making it in or being straight bust. How does this happen?

Then 2005 happened (ranked 9th) where we saw the same thing that happened w/ the 2004 class sans Kenny Phillips and Darryl Sharpton
Then 2006 happened (ranked 12th)

2004 was that pivotal class where it looked good on paper, but was bull chit. And that trend has overtaken us ever since. We haven't had a complete class where majority of it's players either dominated or contributed since 2003.
Click to expand...
you look closed at 202 & 3 you can see it started already. lots of names there I barely rememeber and just a couple real stars. Beason, Meriweather and Winston were players who probably play on lots of Miami teams but the rest? Sure the GOAT return man for ST but much as I love Devin he wasn't much of position player. Olsen is fine but was transfer so only counts some. Hey, take those classes in a minute today but they were day and night from the one before them. Cooker should have been fired in 2004 -- 6 frigging 1st round picks with NOTHING in the trophy case.
 
It's been known that Coker was a catalog shopper of star talent, instead of doing actual scouting assessments.

One of the things you have to give nod to Butch is that his eye for talent is elite. However, he needed guys in his position jobs to develop that talent and he got that. This whole set-up is definitely not groundbreaking, but also points to a lack of important intangibles amongst our staff post Butch.
 
PensacolaCane said:
To OP. Give clappy some credit for 2001 class. Butch wasn’t even recruiting Frank Gore who was committed to Miss when Butch bolted. Coker also responsible for landing several others.
Click to expand...

Correct, and I meant to say part of the 2001 class that finished out.
 
joglen15 said:
It's been known that Coker was a catalog shopper of star talent, instead of doing actual scouting assessments.

One of the things you have to give nod to Butch is that his eye for talent is elite. However, he needed guys in his position jobs to develop that talent and he got that. This whole set-up is definitely not groundbreaking, but also points to a lack of important intangibles amongst our staff post Butch.
Click to expand...

Which is another problem we've had.

Butch had a really good staff, one that was consistently poached by other collegiate teams or the NFL.

Our support staff for these coaches have been Mickey Mouse at best, lately.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top