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Astcloud11 said:
Jimmy Graham didn't play football until college so a rating here is invalid and actually shouldn't even count for either side.

Russel Wilson was 2007
Khalil Mack was 2009
Aaron Donald was 2010
Michael Thomas was 2011
Kevin Byard was 2011

At what point do you consider the recruiting services to be more accurate?
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What is your evidence that they are ‘more accurate’ today than in 2011?

You're actually missing the point entirely.

They are accurate on average, and were back then. But averages can be misleading. These kids are outliers.
 
Ethnicsands said:
What is your evidence that they are ‘more accurate’ today than in 2011?

You're actually missing the point entirely.

They are accurate on average, and were back then. But averages can be misleading. These kids are outliers.
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Where in my post did I say anything about 2011? I listed their class years and ASKED when someone thought the classes were accurate.
 
Fact is, many 5 star kids simply develop sooner, and dominate kids that haven't yet. Most young men really mature physically well after high school, then the playing field is levelled. It's why the NFL is full of grown men that were not fully developed when they left high school. Thus the 2 star ratings.
 
I came across this on reddit and it made me think of the convo going on in this thread. I didn’t want to start a new thread either.

public.tableau.com

24/7 Composite Talent Rank and Wins Per Composite Rank By Season

public.tableau.com

18A74088-8CB0-49D3-A450-E024B68C2B1A.webp


 
You can't translate NFL contracts and pro-bowls to recruiting. It's not an apples to apples.

It's VERY common for guys who are late bloomers to become NFL stars. Plus there's a ton more 2*and 3* players in the country. People mature at different rates, physically and mentally, or play HS in really bad areas or on really bad teams.....so they are missed. Once they get proper coaching, proper nutrition and physically mature, they explode. Even then, the percentage is much lower. What that comparison does is tell those lower rated kids to never give up because the proof is there that i can happen.

Now when you compare college All-American teams and conference/NCAA championships to recruiting services, that gives you the better comparison.
 
Once again the simple thinkers missed the point.
The point isn't that 3 star and less players are all better than 4 and 5 star players.
It's that just because a guy wasn't highly rated when he was 16 or 17 years old, doesn't mean he can't develop into one of the best players in the world as a grown man.
There's a ton of guys in the NFL that played at G5 and lower schools. Every year, guys that were nobodies coming out of high school make the pro bowl. It doesn't mean you should only recruit low rated recruits. (honestly, who actually thinks that?) It means that scouts and recruiting "services" miss on special players all the time.
 
Trust your evals and always recruit to fit your scheme

MJ was a 3star kid who no one wanted but turned into a great CB for us who I think was lock down... Garvin is another who was low and we already know what we think of him

Yes we need 5 stars you don’t turn down that athletic talent you can’t create but don’t sleep on low stars because they haven’t been camp warriors in shorts
 
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DTP said:
Once again the simple thinkers missed the point.
The point isn't that 3 star and less players are all better than 4 and 5 star players.
It's that just because a guy wasn't highly rated when he was 16 or 17 years old, doesn't mean he can't develop into one of the best players in the world as a grown man.
There's a ton of guys in the NFL that played at G5 and lower schools. Every year, guys that were nobodies coming out of high school make the pro bowl. It doesn't mean you should only recruit low rated recruits. (honestly, who actually thinks that?) It means that scouts and recruiting "services" miss on special players all the time.
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I don't think anyone missed that point, its just easy to see that there is pre-text here as to why the post was made in the first place, and its a long running debate on this site. Those that favor the star system as a basic level of gauging where the team is from a talent standpoint have always known and stated that kids fall through the cracks, and that evals are most important.
 
bobbydigius said:
I don't think anyone missed that point, its just easy to see that there is pre-text here as to why the post was made in the first place, and its a long running debate on this site. Those that favor the star system as a basic level of gauging where the team is from a talent standpoint have always known and stated that kids fall through the cracks, and that evals are most important.
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Reasonable and level headed fans know this but CIS is hardly full of reasonable or level headed fans. There's a large group that swears by recruiting rankings that feel it's impossible for a lower rated recruit to actually out perform a higher rated recruit even though it happens all the time. Then there's a whole "stars don't matter" group that thinks every lower rated kid is going to turn into Ed Reed even thought there's not much evidence of that happening very often either.

People need to realize the entire recruiting industry is purely for fan consumption. Nick Saban isn't looking at 247's rankings and going "Oh, they have these guys rated as 5 star players, we need to recruit them". Coaches have their own evaluations and yes, the obviously talented kids are going to be rated equally high by both individual coaches and recruiting sites. But the reason why an overwhelming number of of "ranked" kids are rated 3 stars is because they don't really know how good the kid is/will be. When a recruiting site rates a kid 3 stars, they're pretty much just covering their bases. This is where coaches need to know what their doing, certainly a lot more than a website writer, who's main goal is to sell subscriptions.
 
DTP said:
Once again the simple thinkers missed the point.
The point isn't that 3 star and less players are all better than 4 and 5 star players.
It's that just because a guy wasn't highly rated when he was 16 or 17 years old, doesn't mean he can't develop into one of the best players in the world as a grown man.
There's a ton of guys in the NFL that played at G5 and lower schools. Every year, guys that were nobodies coming out of high school make the pro bowl. It doesn't mean you should only recruit low rated recruits. (honestly, who actually thinks that?) It means that scouts and recruiting "services" miss on special players all the time.
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Why is that a point worth making? Is there anyone on this board who thinks otherwise?

It’s a truly irrelevant point in the context of the discussion of recruiting ratings, and you should know that.
 
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It's all about projection and recruiting kids that you think have a higher ceiling. For example lets take into account Balom, Avantae, and Tennison; we all know Tennison and Avantae are 4 stars, While Balom is a 3 star, but if you think Avantae and Tennison have a higher ceiling due to their rankings, then I have to totally disagree with you. There is no indication that says Avantae and Tennison will become better football players because they are ranked higher. Now if we are talking about who is better rn then you would be right to go for the higher rated player, but again this brings up the question who has the higher ceiling and If I was UM I would take Balom's committment without any hesitation, I would say he has the better frame for the safety position and unlike the other 2 who are elite at somethings and average at others, he is does everything good. Another it's not like we need him to come in a play starting minutes either.
 
People act like there going to hit on every recruit, no one ever knows if a kid keeps growing like Anthony Davis. Of course there is going to be misses more then hit cause theres more jags then super stars. But coaches with good track records Saban Fisher Smart Meyer if they want our kids we target chances are that kid is good
 
All you guys worshipping the 2 stars need to watch every play of this game.


 
TheEye said:
All you guys worshipping the 2 stars need to watch every play of this game.


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There's roughly 10-15 teams that have had higher rated recruiting classes than Clemson. Yet none of them are playing in the championship game besides Alabama.
 
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