The big boyz of College are miles ahead.

[canesstevealum08]

I was informed by people in the know Shalala had a strong influence with decisions made with Athletics. I think you would be surprised by how much she micromanaged our programs. She was more concerned about public relations and altering our perception with the media rather than producing results. You can argue all you want she didn’t manage our Athletics but her agenda was crystal clear what she wanted; therefore, Dee and Hoycut were restricted to a degree and didn’t have the support they needed to do what was needed. She axed a lot of ideas and potential hires. In addition, the lack of resources invested into our programs were heavily due to her bidding. She didn’t prioritize it and milked the brand for what it’s worth. Just look at the results. I believe we had 3 AD’s and 3 Head Coaches under her watch. Lastly, her last knife into the program was hiring Blake James as an AD who wasn’t qualified for the job. No one else in the country hires him.

Frenks is the opposite. He doesn’t care and doesn’t get involved. He didn’t even bring his own AD which isn’t helping the situation.

Nailed it she mettled and vetoed a ton! People just never noticed cause of how she did it. Paul dee was encouraged to hire Shannon, the salaries were largely non competitive (look at the buyout law suits) James is extremely hesitant to fire anyone! Forced to fire golden and talked richt into retirement. He needs to be fired

 

[kkinder94]

I have come to realize we are never going to be a top contending program again. If we ever want to see elite football played by someone in a Miami uniform we are going to have to settle for YouTube. We are going to be a mid-tier ACC team. Some years will be better than others, but generally a mid-tier team in a mid-tier conference. And why is that? It's because that is perfectly fine for the people making decisions and stroking the checks here at Miami.

I hate to get political here but this started when shalala took over. I think we can all agree that she is far left right? Well I got news for you those type of people don't like football! It's to barbaric, it's to rough, it's to masculine. She couldn't just close the football team right, not at Miami? So she neutered it! That was even better! She could still bring in hundreds of millions of dollars because of the football team from tv rights and selling cheap crap to the plebeians. But she could use that money to fund the scholarships of the Womens Rowing Team, new buildings, and big salaries for her woke minions she brought in and placed in positions of power. Those type of people don't believe in greatness, or excellence, or being #1. They believe in equality, and fairness, and nobody having too much because that is not fair. If you had that thought process what would want your football team to be? A mid-tier team in a mid-tier conference, and that's what we got boys. Those bureaucratic, woke, progressives once they were let in by shalala only destroy what is there. By design by the way! They can't build anything, they can't make anything exceptional. Which is why they are in academics. If those people had to fend for themselves in the real world they would starve.

I admire the schools like Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and Notre Dame. Because they are able to keep those people out of positions of power that effects the football team! The debate on whether Manny goes, and Baker, or James is all a jerk off because the position will be filled my someone okay - not excellent - but okay. So it really doesn't matter who is fired and when. The man-haters are in control.

Absolute money post.

 

[TheEye]

this. People will be amazed at what a competent staff can do here. Look at when richt joined. We all suffered so long under Alf and the noD and in no time at all, our defense was miles better with simply a new coach and staff. Look at this year’s offense. Put a real good HC in charge and you’ll see a difference. We may not be big 4 type of good right away but top 10 type of good is definitely within reach

And now we want to fire that same defensive staff. Funny how that works.

 

[Ethnicsands]

You really think University Presidents are running athletic departments.. It's almost like the typical Miami fan never attended college.. Oh wait, most of our "Fans" haven't, and it shows when this conversation comes up.

It's in the name people, it's the UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI, not Football Vocational School of Miami. Dr. Shalala may have made comments about the program, but she wasn't running it, just like Tad Foote wasn't running the program when he was here. This narrative that the Miami administration is "Ruining" the program is complete nonsense and shows that our fanbase doesn't have a faintest clue what the F is going on. Can you say that our large donors aren't holding Blake James accountable? Yes, and that's their job, not Dr. Shalala or even Dr. Frenk. In college sports, the money people(known as boosters) are given carte blanche to team with the athletics department administration to manage the department. There is little and I mean little oversight from the administration at large in this management model, mostly because sports aren't seen as a priority by academic minded people and for good reason. You go to Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, even Southern Cal and you see that the University President has zero day to day oversight of the department, it is usually huge institutional donors making the calls. Once athletic department leadership loses the support of those donors, they are forced out and replaced.

The few schools that move away from this model(The Alabamas and LSUs of the world) are usually marginal academic institutions with zero credibility in that realm. They go more with an "All Hands on Deck" method where the school teams extensively with donors to transfer all applicable resources to the athletic department at the expense of the rest of the institution.

The job of the University President is to raise money for the University and ensure that the academic side continues to be relevant in a quickly changing world. Dr. Shalala did that well, Dr. Frenk isn't, and it has nothing to do with the US News and World Report ranking. Dr. Shalala raised over 3 BILLION dollars for the University, that's **** good, especially when one notes that our donor pool is shallower than a lot of peer institutions. People forget that we are relatively young as a major University, peer institutions like Duke, Southern Cal and Tulane existed 50+ years before. That plays a role in building those long term institutional donors.

Just an FYI, the Miami football program doesn't draw in hundreds of millions of dollars, especially when you look at the true revenue generators for the University, RESEARCH. Miami football draws in pennies compared to the medical school and our STEM research departments. No one writes 50 million dollar checks for the football program, but they sure as **** will for the medical school or for Rosenstiel....

Let’s contrast the statement put out by Texas this morning:

“With our football season coming to a close, our vice president and athletics director, Chris Del Conte, has evaluated the UT program’s strengths and weaknesses and where the program is relative to our goals. While we have made measured progress during the past several years under Tom Herman’s leadership, Chris has recommended to the university president, Jay Hartzell, that UT make a coaching change to get us on track to achieving our ambitious goals. President Hartzell and the chair of our Board of Regents, Kevin Eltife, concur with this recommendation and have approved the change. We thank Coach Herman for his service and dedication to our student-athletes, our program and our university.”

See: start with goals and expectations. Then evaluate progress objectively. Then AD makes a recommendation to President and President and Chairman of Board approve and support the decision.

The person who sounds like he doesn’t know anything about organizational decision making is QP here. Bunch of blah blah to obfuscate the obvious lack of commitment by UM to the program.

 

[kkinder94]

You really think University Presidents are running athletic departments.. It's almost like the typical Miami fan never attended college.. Oh wait, most of our "Fans" haven't, and it shows when this conversation comes up.

It's in the name people, it's the UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI, not Football Vocational School of Miami. Dr. Shalala may have made comments about the program, but she wasn't running it, just like Tad Foote wasn't running the program when he was here. This narrative that the Miami administration is "Ruining" the program is complete nonsense and shows that our fanbase doesn't have a faintest clue what the F is going on. Can you say that our large donors aren't holding Blake James accountable? Yes, and that's their job, not Dr. Shalala or even Dr. Frenk. In college sports, the money people(known as boosters) are given carte blanche to team with the athletics department administration to manage the department. There is little and I mean little oversight from the administration at large in this management model, mostly because sports aren't seen as a priority by academic minded people and for good reason. You go to Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, even Southern Cal and you see that the University President has zero day to day oversight of the department, it is usually huge institutional donors making the calls. Once athletic department leadership loses the support of those donors, they are forced out and replaced.

The few schools that move away from this model(The Alabamas and LSUs of the world) are usually marginal academic institutions with zero credibility in that realm. They go more with an "All Hands on Deck" method where the school teams extensively with donors to transfer all applicable resources to the athletic department at the expense of the rest of the institution.

The job of the University President is to raise money for the University and ensure that the academic side continues to be relevant in a quickly changing world. Dr. Shalala did that well, Dr. Frenk isn't, and it has nothing to do with the US News and World Report ranking. Dr. Shalala raised over 3 BILLION dollars for the University, that's **** good, especially when one notes that our donor pool is shallower than a lot of peer institutions. People forget that we are relatively young as a major University, peer institutions like Duke, Southern Cal and Tulane existed 50+ years before. That plays a role in building those long term institutional donors.

Just an FYI, the Miami football program doesn't draw in hundreds of millions of dollars, especially when you look at the true revenue generators for the University, RESEARCH. Miami football draws in pennies compared to the medical school and our STEM research departments. No one writes 50 million dollar checks for the football program, but they sure as **** will for the medical school or for Rosenstiel....

You do realize that Miami's academic coffers got filled in the 80s and 90s due to football. Football put UM on the map as a top educational school. The number of quality applicants rose tenfold, which also led to more revenue from successful graduates. The money is spread out more today in college football than in the 80s when only top teams got the big tv games, but the success of the University now stands on the shoulders of the football team. A perennial winner would continue to boost UM in all aspects: candidates, donations, etc.

 

[GOCANES05]

Canes coaching is the greatest get rich skeem in CFB .
Sign multi year guaranteed deal then become a millionaire get bought out in three retire a multi millionaire or get an extension even richer .

We do this every 3 years or so even when it takes 4-5 years to win constantly.

So here we are hunting for another coach whom is kind of a bargain and make him rich.

History repeats it self here pretty constantly the word out there get rich here and retire or if your an NC coach ask for the world.

So here we are swimming in our own of denial , excuses and blame.

NEVER EVER ABANDONED WHAT BROUGHT YOU TO CHAMPIONSHIPS NEVER EVER CUT CORNERS AND CHEAPEN YOURSELF TO PUSH AWAY A DOLLAR TO SAVE A PENNY.

Above another problem NEVER MENTIONED but surly IGNORED

 

[SevenNSeven]

Not 'miles' ahead.

Millions ahead. They are millions ahead. Even some of the great Canes teams in the past would have issues beating an Alabama squad with an army of analysts breaking down tendencies prior to the game, and a bunch of guys whose primary job is stealing signs working during the game.

I don't think enough Miami fans realize that. We can recruit at a top-10 level, but still get the doors blown off against a top team.

 

[stormbrewing]

It’s a small club and Miami isn’t in it. You either pay the price and have the dedication or you are not invited in. The Brass at UM isn’t interested in it at all.

 

[GOCANES05]

Not 'miles' ahead.

Millions ahead. They are millions ahead. Even some of the great Canes teams in the past would have issues beating an Alabama squad with an army of analysts breaking down tendencies prior to the game, and a bunch of guys whose primary job is stealing signs working during the game.

I don't think enough Miami fans realize that. We can recruit at a top-10 level, but still get the doors blown off against a top team.

It’s really a shame , it should have never happened.

With all the super smart college degrees even master an doctorates have not even a hint.

Football is NOT rocket science but the super smart surly make it so.

Management is ALWAYS the source of every problem in any business

 

[Canedude08]

Let’s contrast the statement put out by Texas this morning:

“With our football season coming to a close, our vice president and athletics director, Chris Del Conte, has evaluated the UT program’s strengths and weaknesses and where the program is relative to our goals. While we have made measured progress during the past several years under Tom Herman’s leadership, Chris has recommended to the university president, Jay Hartzell, that UT make a coaching change to get us on track to achieving our ambitious goals. President Hartzell and the chair of our Board of Regents, Kevin Eltife, concur with this recommendation and have approved the change. We thank Coach Herman for his service and dedication to our student-athletes, our program and our university.”

See: start with goals and expectations. Then evaluate progress objectively. Then AD makes a recommendation to President and President and Chairman of Board approve and support the decision.

The person who sounds like he doesn’t know anything about organizational decision making is QP here. Bunch of blah blah to obfuscate the obvious lack of commitment by UM to the program.

You are pointing to boiler plate language by a leadership group as proof of what? It's akin to when this fanbase points to a sterile public statement by Blake James as an indicator of something, when in reality it doesn't mean anything. The AD at Texas is the VOICE of people like Red Mccombs and other huge donors, people whose support you need in order to survive. Guess what, once the AD went to the President and Chair of the Board and "suggested" firing, it was a fait accompli. Why? Because that meant that Herman had no political capital remaining from the donors, the people whose money makes the athletic department possible. For the President to do anything contrary would undermine not only the AD(who most likely would have left had the leadership intervened), but the donors, a lot of whom are huge institutional donors. No President would overrule the AD in that case. But hey, continue to think that the President of the University of Texas is running around making day to day decisions on who runs their football program. They are a rubber stamp and while they may have an opinion, it's not going to override the people whose money sustains the department. Go read "A Payroll To Meet" if you want to see a classic example of how most University Presidents are treated when they try to get overly involved with the athletic department.

 

[Canedude08]

You do realize that Miami's academic coffers got filled in the 80s and 90s due to football. Football put UM on the map as a top educational school. The number of quality applicants rose tenfold, which also led to more revenue from successful graduates. The money is spread out more today in college football than in the 80s when only top teams got the big tv games, but the success of the University now stands on the shoulders of the football team. A perennial winner would continue to boost UM in all aspects: candidates, donations, etc.

Our fans love to hold onto this myth and there is a cottage industry of jackasses like Billy Corben that feed it. Say it with me: NO UNIVERSITY HAS BEEN BUILT THROUGH A SUCCESSFUL FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Why? BECAUSE FOOTBALL IS AN END TO ITSELF. Correlation does not equal causation. The University of Miami came of age in the late 70s and throughout the 80s mostly through outstanding fundraising by Tad Foote and his people, people that were able to successfully convince corporate America that investing in the major University in South Florida would help them gain footholds in Latin America. Dr. Shalala followed Foote and ramped up the fundraising even more, using her immense political contacts to further build out certain department, through specific institutional donors that weren't there in the the days of Henry King Stanford and earlier leaders.

Football is a marketing tool, it's a nice thing to have, but there's a reason why the best football conference in the country is also packed with some of the worst academic institutions in the country and the best institution is historically the WORST football program in said conference. It's extremely difficult to have a successful football program and have top shelf academics, especially if you aren't a state school where you can have eons of donors that can carry the financial weight. Why? Because a lot of the goals of a football program run contrary to what you'd want in a good academic institution. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try to compete, but it is what it is.

There's a reason most Ivy league schools and highly selective east coast private institutions don't even waste their time with FBS football. Miami, Southern Cal, Notre Dame, Stanford, Vanderbilt, TCU, SMU, are really the only privates that even try. Miami, along with SC and Notre Dame are really the only ones that had any kind of major national relevance over the last 60 years. Stanford hit on a couple of coaches and are okay, but David Shaw is approaching the long term ceiling of what Stanford football can be, and they have Silicon Valley money flooding their program.

 

[Brains]

Our fans love to hold onto this myth and there is a cottage industry of jackasses like Billy Corben that feed it. Say it with me: NO UNIVERSITY HAS BEEN BUILT THROUGH A SUCCESSFUL FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Why? BECAUSE FOOTBALL IS AN END TO ITSELF. Correlation does not equal causation. The University of Miami came of age in the late 70s and throughout the 80s mostly through outstanding fundraising by Tad Foote and his people, people that were able to successfully convince corporate America that investing in the major University in South Florida would help them gain footholds in Latin America. Dr. Shalala followed Foote and ramped up the fundraising even more, using her immense political contacts to further build out certain department, through specific institutional donors that weren't there in the the days of Henry King Stanford and earlier leaders.

Football is a marketing tool, it's a nice thing to have, but there's a reason why the best football conference in the country is also packed with some of the worst academic institutions in the country and the best institution is historically the WORST football program in said conference. It's extremely difficult to have a successful football program and have top shelf academics, especially if you aren't a state school where you can have eons of donors that can carry the financial weight. Why? Because a lot of the goals of a football program run contrary to what you'd want in a good academic institution. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try to compete, but it is what it is.

There's a reason most Ivy league schools and highly selective east coast private institutions don't even waste their time with FBS football. Miami, Southern Cal, Notre Dame, Stanford, Vanderbilt, TCU, SMU, are really the only privates that even try. Miami, along with SC and Notre Dame are really the only ones that had any kind of major national relevance over the last 60 years. Stanford hit on a couple of coaches and are okay, but David Shaw is approaching the long term ceiling of what Stanford football can be, and they have Silicon Valley money flooding their program.

How so? Is your argument that it "takes away" money that would otherwise be spent on academics?

I've heard this many times, but I have trouble accepting the argument. Schools have the federal loan program to lock in their payment and secure their faculty salaries (which they raise all the time), and enable them to waste money on departments of zero relevance and/or employment value (e.g., gender studies, critical race theory,etc.).

Football actually produces revenue and I see it as far more valuable than half of the nonsense that goes on in humanities departments.

 

[Canedude08]

How so? Is your argument that it "takes away" money that would otherwise be spent on academics?

I've heard this many times, but I have trouble accepting the argument. Schools have the federal loan program to lock in their payment and secure their faculty salaries (which they raise all the time), and enable them to waste money on departments of zero relevance and/or employment value (e.g., gender studies, critical race theory,etc.).

Football actually produces revenue and I see it as far more valuable than half of the nonsense that goes on in humanities departments.

The things that most "Jock" schools do run contrary to the concept of higher education. Whether it's spending money on jock majors, to keep guys eligible or straight up ignoring child abuse in order to protect a coach, a lot of moral lines get crossed. Think PSU would have looked the other way had a professor been straight up raping children for decades? Exactly. When you fall down that rabbit hole, a lot of things happen, a lot of which are things that you don't want to be involved with.


Football produces revenue for the athletic department, but the entire point of a University isn't merely to create revenue. Never mind the fact that research in the STEM fields is what sustains any major University today. The humanities are part and parcel of what makes for a civilized society. I know it's popular to treat college as some kind of Job Corps center, when in reality the purpose of higher education is to create people that can think critically and utilize those skills to better serve society.

 

[Ethnicsands]

You are pointing to boiler plate language by a leadership group as proof of what? It's akin to when this fanbase points to a sterile public statement by Blake James as an indicator of something, when in reality it doesn't mean anything. The AD at Texas is the VOICE of people like Red Mccombs and other huge donors, people whose support you need in order to survive. Guess what, once the AD went to the President and Chair of the Board and "suggested" firing, it was a fait accompli. Why? Because that meant that Herman had no political capital remaining from the donors, the people whose money makes the athletic department possible. For the President to do anything contrary would undermine not only the AD(who most likely would have left had the leadership intervened), but the donors, a lot of whom are huge institutional donors. No President would overrule the AD in that case. But hey, continue to think that the President of the University of Texas is running around making day to day decisions on who runs their football program. They are a rubber stamp and while they may have an opinion, it's not going to override the people whose money sustains the department. Go read "A Payroll To Meet" if you want to see a classic example of how most University Presidents are treated when they try to get overly involved with the athletic department.

What?

 

[PredaCane]

Watching Bama earlier, and now Clemson and Ohio State.

These college teams are flicking waaay more advanced.

Miles better athletes. Organized. Solid.

It takes big money to even fluck with these machines.

They got miles more latitude to drop bags too. If the ncaa allowed us like they allow them we buy these kids too.

 

[Hoyacane1620]

Our fans love to hold onto this myth and there is a cottage industry of jackasses like Billy Corben that feed it. Say it with me: NO UNIVERSITY HAS BEEN BUILT THROUGH A SUCCESSFUL FOOTBALL PROGRAM. Why? BECAUSE FOOTBALL IS AN END TO ITSELF. Correlation does not equal causation. The University of Miami came of age in the late 70s and throughout the 80s mostly through outstanding fundraising by Tad Foote and his people, people that were able to successfully convince corporate America that investing in the major University in South Florida would help them gain footholds in Latin America. Dr. Shalala followed Foote and ramped up the fundraising even more, using her immense political contacts to further build out certain department, through specific institutional donors that weren't there in the the days of Henry King Stanford and earlier leaders.

Football is a marketing tool, it's a nice thing to have, but there's a reason why the best football conference in the country is also packed with some of the worst academic institutions in the country and the best institution is historically the WORST football program in said conference. It's extremely difficult to have a successful football program and have top shelf academics, especially if you aren't a state school where you can have eons of donors that can carry the financial weight. Why? Because a lot of the goals of a football program run contrary to what you'd want in a good academic institution. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try to compete, but it is what it is.

There's a reason most Ivy league schools and highly selective east coast private institutions don't even waste their time with FBS football. Miami, Southern Cal, Notre Dame, Stanford, Vanderbilt, TCU, SMU, are really the only privates that even try. Miami, along with SC and Notre Dame are really the only ones that had any kind of major national relevance over the last 60 years. Stanford hit on a couple of coaches and are okay, but David Shaw is approaching the long term ceiling of what Stanford football can be, and they have Silicon Valley money flooding their program.

100% really well said. I'd also like to add a look at the enrollment demographics of the current, incoming class versus that of classes in the early 80's would show you the percentage of international students has grown IMMENSELY. These kids don't care about athletics; they also don't donate as alumni. They attend at full tuition and are welcomed.

 

[Canedude08]

100% really well said. I'd also like to add a look at the enrollment demographics of the current, incoming class versus that of classes in the early 80's would show you the percentage of international students has grown IMMENSELY. These kids don't care about athletics; they also don't donate as alumni. They attend at full tuition and are welcomed.

Yep, the last time I came back to campus, I was shocked at how different the student body demographics had shifted. I first noticed the shift back when I finished my BS/BA(2009) and came back for grad and law school, but it's gone into overdrive since I finished my JD.

When I first arrived to campus, you had international kids mostly concentrated at the graduate level. Undergrad looked like a typical American University, with minorities coming on strong due to Miami throwing huge money in financial aid packages, and the welcoming atmosphere(It's one of the reasons I chose UMiami, they threw so much merit aid at me, I graduated with next to no debt). As the school improved and Dr. Shalala moved on, you saw that merit aid started to get phased out, mostly because the typical incoming freshman had stats so good, they would have easily qualified for massive aid 10 years ago. The problem is that while Miami is a good school, it's not a school that most people would be willing to pay full freight for. If you can get into UMiami, odds are you can get into another top end private, maybe one with a bit more name recognition. Once merit aid started being phased out, you saw Miami start to revert back to the rich kids haven that it was before Shalala, the only difference was that these rich kids actually were fairly intelligent. To fill out the classes, Miami went international, where we've always had a nice relationship due to our location.

The problem is that a lot of these rich kids(most of whom aren't local and didn't grow up with Miami athletics) don't really give a **** about athletics and only donate to the academic side(AT BEST). We've seen how the young alumni are less likely to give, compared to previous classes, who graduated into significantly worse job markets. I still write a yearly check to the College of Arts and Sciences and the Law School, as well as maintain season tickets for football and men and women basketball. I live in Arizona and attend at best 1-3 athletic events per year. I give back because I believe in the University and want to give back to the school that spent a ton on me, and provided an opportunity. I don't know if a kid that had to pay full freight would feel that way.

 

[canesstevealum08]

The things that most "Jock" schools do run contrary to the concept of higher education. Whether it's spending money on jock majors, to keep guys eligible or straight up ignoring child abuse in order to protect a coach, a lot of moral lines get crossed. Think PSU would have looked the other way had a professor been straight up raping children for decades? Exactly. When you fall down that rabbit hole, a lot of things happen, a lot of which are things that you don't want to be involved with.


Football produces revenue for the athletic department, but the entire point of a University isn't merely to create revenue. Never mind the fact that research in the STEM fields is what sustains any major University today. The humanities are part and parcel of what makes for a civilized society. I know it's popular to treat college as some kind of Job Corps center, when in reality the purpose of higher education is to create people that can think critically and utilize those skills to better serve society.

I think you're confusing two things. You can have an athletic department that doesn't morally bankrupt the University. For the University of Miami to win again they don't have to become a jock school. It's a five time national championship football program that over the past 15 years has hired a first time head coach twice. That's just mismanagement, it's not because it conflicts with the mission of the University. By all accounts Lashlee gets paid well and so does Manny so money is rarely an issue. I think more of an issue is how the athletic department is run. Sometimes the BOT has a say, other times the AD acts independently that's what our issue is, IMO. Golden firing was accelerated by the board, the Manny hiring was done without the board.

 

[itsacanething]

We just got spread.. 15 years late.. we are running old version of super simple and just go fast..

The routes I see bama run, Ohio st, etc.. we dont even have they ran a out up comeback on goal line.. lol..

We dont even have wrs, lol..

Against Clemson we couldnt even run a play because our oline cant block a simple inside osu straight handling those guys like nothing

if we had receivers who could catch, a better oline, better discipline and better linebackers we would be much closer. maybe still not there but much closer. the point is you don't go from here to elite overnight. its a incremental process.

 

[skyman]

if we had receivers who could catch, a better oline, better discipline and better linebackers we would be much closer. maybe still not there but much closer. the point is you don't go from point here to elite overnight. its a incremental process.

Do you feel like we are making those incremental steps? This is the longest process in the world it seems, how many years have we been at it, lol..

As soon as we "fix" those things other holes will spring open, rinse repeat