Stranglehold on the ACC Coastal

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Or the SEC East.

OK, so now we've named an arguably terrible division in all 4 of the P5 conferences that have divisions. When you are talking about such a small data set, and such a subjective value, the fact that it is even a discussion most certainly does NOT prove your point. The fact of the matter is, the ACC and Miami by extension (or vice versa depending on your perspective) take a lot of unfair crap about the strength of the Coastal division. And no, our division is not a gauntlet of national powerhouses, I will certainly grant that, but it is also not the punching bag it's made out to be by Paul Finebaum.

Just look at the final records for the teams in the SEC East and the Coastal. Keeping in mind that UGA didn't actually play the best team in their conference in the SEC championship game, the records are essentially identical, granted Georgia was the better team at the end of last season, it is somewhat understandable given the depth that CMR bestowed them with and the lack thereof that we had by the end of the season. The results against (opponent in common) ND at least show that, when healthy and playing well, Miami and UGA were at minimum comparable.

(ACC teams records appear to be regular season only)
ACC Coastal: SEC East:
Miami (10-2) UGA (13-2)
Vag T (9-4) South Cac (9-4)
GT (5-6) KKKtucky (7-6)
Duke (7-6) Misery (7-6)
UVA (6-7) Felony (4-7)
Pitt (5-7) Vandy (5-7)
UNC (3-9) Tenn (4-8)

Pretty **** comparable, isn't it?

Be a realist if you want, but I'm sick and ****** tired of our own fans slurping up the bull**** that eSECpn and the rest of the media spews, without any critical thought or analysis, accepting it as true just because someone on TV or in print says it, and then regurgitating the same crap to impugn the very program that they purport to root for. Guess what guys, it's 2018, the media doesn't tell the truth anymore. They just sell stories and narratives. Truth is dead and there's no interest or profit in it. If you want to **** on the Canes, that's fine, but go get yourself a cot **** Semenholes or Gaytors hat and do it on your own time. Ain't nobody got time for that crap up in CIS.

****!! A well thought out, intelligent response. I'd love to shake your hand and have a beer with you anytime, sir. What a breath of fresh air from the majority of the fans. However, I disagree with most of what you said, and it's simply because I watch multiple college football games a week, I follow recruiting nationally almost every day of the year, and I watch the coaching carousel intently. I'm certainly nowhere near an expert, this is not my job, but I do not regurgitate ESPN rhetoric either. But I trust my eyes and my judgment.

The fact of the matter is, the ACC Coastal is ****-poor. You won't convince me it's not. But furthermore, I don't even really care to debate it. The entire premise of my original post was not to compare divisions (yes, other conferences have poor divisions as well), it was simply to say that Miami should absolutely dominate the division they're in. They have an established coach with a proven track record, some excellent assistants, and will recruit FAR better than any other member of their division. So it's not really a knock on the ACC Coastal (although it is terrible), it's more a testament to what I feel should be a huge gap between Miami and its peers. And I'd say the same thing if you replaced Wisconsin with Miami in the Big 10 West. I'd say the same thing if you replaced USC with Miami in the Pac-12 South. I'd maybe say the same thing if you replaced UGA with Miami in the SEC East, but as much as it pains me to say it, UF SHOULD (I sure as **** hope they don't), but they SHOULD be able to recapture some success with Mullen now that the shark-****** is gone. So it's not an ACC bashing. It's simply saying I feel that a Mark Richt led program recruiting Top 10 classes annually should never lose to anyone in the Coastal, save for maybe an occasional hiccup every couple years. And I'd say the same if the competition was Tennessee and Vandy and Missouri and Kentucky and USCe, etc.

But thanks for the response and you're clearly an intelligent and articulate guy. We need more of this on the site.

 

[DTP]

I think the narrative of the Coastal being a P5 weak link was mostly due to Miami not holding up their end of the bargain for years. When they made the divisions, they clearly put a couple powerhouses in each side, a couple doormats on each side and sprinkled in a bunch of also-rans. When Miami joined the ACC it was supposed to be a Miami/VT battle for the top with GT and UNC occasionally making runs and Virginia and Duke fighting at the bottom. A pretty even distribution of talented teams and one that theoretically would match up against any of the other P5 divisions. However, the Miami team the ACC got was not a powerhouse and spent a majority of their first decade in the "also ran" category. Thus creating the narrative that the ACC Coastal was made up of a decent Virginia Tech team and a bunch of middling programs that occasionally made a run into the national rankings. With Miami regaining national relevance, it puts the ACC Coastal division back among the elite divisions of major college football.

 

[JgDaCane]

We have to start blowing these coastal ****bag teams out.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

****!! A well thought out, intelligent response. I'd love to shake your hand and have a beer with you anytime, sir. What a breath of fresh air from the majority of the fans. However, I disagree with most of what you said, and it's simply because I watch multiple college football games a week, I follow recruiting nationally almost every day of the year, and I watch the coaching carousel intently. I'm certainly nowhere near an expert, this is not my job, but I do not regurgitate ESPN rhetoric either. But I trust my eyes and my judgment.

The fact of the matter is, the ACC Coastal is ****-poor. You won't convince me it's not. But furthermore, I don't even really care to debate it. The entire premise of my original post was not to compare divisions (yes, other conferences have poor divisions as well), it was simply to say that Miami should absolutely dominate the division they're in. They have an established coach with a proven track record, some excellent assistants, and will recruit FAR better than any other member of their division. So it's not really a knock on the ACC Coastal (although it is terrible), it's more a testament to what I feel should be a huge gap between Miami and its peers. And I'd say the same thing if you replaced Wisconsin with Miami in the Big 10 West. I'd say the same thing if you replaced USC with Miami in the Pac-12 South. I'd maybe say the same thing if you replaced UGA with Miami in the SEC East, but as much as it pains me to say it, UF SHOULD (I sure as **** hope they don't), but they SHOULD be able to recapture some success with Mullen now that the shark-****** is gone. So it's not an ACC bashing. It's simply saying I feel that a Mark Richt led program recruiting Top 10 classes annually should never lose to anyone in the Coastal, save for maybe an occasional hiccup every couple years. And I'd say the same if the competition was Tennessee and Vandy and Missouri and Kentucky and USCe, etc.

But thanks for the response and you're clearly an intelligent and articulate guy. We need more of this on the site.

Yeah, I agreed with almost all of your post except the part about the Coastal division. I might even agree that it's "****-poor", if we were to accept that all of the other conferences have a "****-poor" division as well. It's just not accurate to say that half of our conference is appreciably different than half of any other conference. Not only that, but over the past few seasons, evidence is building that the ACC, top to bottom, is at least neck and neck with the SEC as far as total conference strength.

Yes, Miami should, and I believe will dominate the Coastal and be in the conference title game on a routine basis going forward. We agree.

That said, this irrational notion that somehow our division is the worst in college football is based on nothing but a lie, repeated until accepted as fact.

You should not cloud your points with over the top hyperbole. There was no need to say emphatically and categorically that "the ACC Coastal is the worst P5 division in college football" in order to make your case that we should dominate the division. Repeating this nonsense only gives further fodder to those who intend to discredit us.

 

[423Hurricane]

Let me first say that Finebum is nothing more than a bought and paid for $EC lackey. His "opinions" are completely biased and thus I pay him no mind.

I think there's a lot of parity in the P5's - parity being that each one has 3 or 4 teams that dominate the conference every year (the reasons are much debated) and the rest of the teams are clamoring for 3rd place and below with a few outliers here and there.

The ACC has never gotten a lot of football respect because most associate it with BB. That perception is changing and Miami will now (after a long and arduous journey) help bring more football credence to the conference with it's rise back to prominence. That was the intent in the first place when Miami was accepted into the ACC.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Yeah, I agreed with almost all of your post except the part about the Coastal division. I might even agree that it's "****-poor", if we were to accept that all of the other conferences have a "****-poor" division as well. It's just not accurate to say that half of our conference is appreciably different than half of any other conference. Not only that, but over the past few seasons, evidence is building that the ACC, top to bottom, is at least neck and neck with the SEC as far as total conference strength.

Yes, Miami should, and I believe will dominate the Coastal and be in the conference title game on a routine basis going forward. We agree.

That said, this irrational notion that somehow our division is the worst in college football is based on nothing but a lie, repeated until accepted as fact.

You should not cloud your points with over the top hyperbole. There was no need to say emphatically and categorically that "the ACC Coastal is the worst P5 division in college football" in order to make your case that we should dominate the division. Repeating this nonsense only gives further fodder to those who intend to discredit us.

I said arguably it's the worst. Not definitively. But it's in the discussion annually as the worst division in the country, but yes there are others in that conversation. A Miami team where it should be (recruiting well top to bottom, top notch staff, etc) should be smoking the other teams in that division off the map every single year. I can live with losing in Blacksburg occasionally, maybe once every few trips there when the stars align and they have a good team, but other that that none of these teams should be remotely competing with Miami.....provided that Miami is REALLY Miami. That was all I meant. 5-1 vs the Coastal should be the absolute floor in any season no matter what from here on out, and really we shouldn't accept anything less than 6-0.

 

[OldhamA]

****!! A well thought out, intelligent response. I'd love to shake your hand and have a beer with you anytime, sir. What a breath of fresh air from the majority of the fans. However, I disagree with most of what you said, and it's simply because I watch multiple college football games a week, I follow recruiting nationally almost every day of the year, and I watch the coaching carousel intently. I'm certainly nowhere near an expert, this is not my job, but I do not regurgitate ESPN rhetoric either. But I trust my eyes and my judgment.

The fact of the matter is, the ACC Coastal is ****-poor. You won't convince me it's not. But furthermore, I don't even really care to debate it. The entire premise of my original post was not to compare divisions (yes, other conferences have poor divisions as well), it was simply to say that Miami should absolutely dominate the division they're in. They have an established coach with a proven track record, some excellent assistants, and will recruit FAR better than any other member of their division. So it's not really a knock on the ACC Coastal (although it is terrible), it's more a testament to what I feel should be a huge gap between Miami and its peers. And I'd say the same thing if you replaced Wisconsin with Miami in the Big 10 West. I'd say the same thing if you replaced USC with Miami in the Pac-12 South. I'd maybe say the same thing if you replaced UGA with Miami in the SEC East, but as much as it pains me to say it, UF SHOULD (I sure as **** hope they don't), but they SHOULD be able to recapture some success with Mullen now that the shark-****** is gone. So it's not an ACC bashing. It's simply saying I feel that a Mark Richt led program recruiting Top 10 classes annually should never lose to anyone in the Coastal, save for maybe an occasional hiccup every couple years. And I'd say the same if the competition was Tennessee and Vandy and Missouri and Kentucky and USCe, etc.

But thanks for the response and you're clearly an intelligent and articulate guy. We need more of this on the site.

That's the point, the competition is essentially Tennessee, Vandy, Missouri, Kentucky et al.

Good college teams, not great ones.

 

[Zanecane]

I'd say the biggest recruiting issue we've had during the lean years was proper evaluation. Coker started recruiting from lists/rankings, Shannon recruited one school, and Golden recruited fairly well but many of his evals were boom/bust (re: the massive attrition rate during his tenure.)

Without the advantage of a well-oiled bag game, Miami HAS to be very particular and correct regarding their evaluations. That means developing long-term relationships with players and their entire support system (family, coaches, academic advisers, handlers, etc.) and taking a serious look at risk/reward for each individual player. I *think* Richt can be very good, even elite at this - he's already putting the infrastructure in place with the youth camps and upgrades to facilities and support staff. At the end of the day, though, I think we're going to live and die not by how many stars Richt brings in, but WHICH stars he brings in.

Richt has done a masterful job of connecting with the South florida community, he's got a long term vision and it's going to pay off in recruiting. I agree with you there.

But to say we have always recruited to this level I don't agree with. Prior staffs had classes that were too top heavy, and forced to take too many projects at positions of need. Richts held strong on recruiting Quality over quantity and managed to fill out the roster.

We've never had depth in the past. Having depth to go with the talent advantage (and coaching of course) is what will allow us to finally run the Coastal!

 

[Zanecane]

I

We had cultural rot. We got guys like Duke, Perryman, etc, who were going to be Canes no matter what. That certainly helped our recruiting ranking. But we also had a lot of guys who put on the U helmet and thought that meant they had swag and they were the ****. Every season started with optimism, but when we got punched in the mouth, guys started to realize their coaches were dip****s and entitled players started to quit. Guys like Duke never quit, but when the rest of the team around them started giving up, what were they to do?

The rot extended from the administration, to the players, to the facilities, to the fanbase.

There is no overstating how bad of shape we were in, from a foundational standpoint, when Richt was hired. Dude has taken two years to chip out the rot and start replacing our foundations, brick by brick. People are right when they say we are still years away from being the program we should and need to be once again. Inertia is a powerful force to overcome.

That said, we've won national championships before when we didn't have our best team of the decade, and there's nothing saying this group can't catch lightning in a bottle and achieve big before the program as a whole reaches structural soundness and maturity. That's the fun and beauty of sports, we get to go play the games and watch the games and the outcome is determined on the field, and luck and hot streaks or chemistry, etc, can and do happen.

Looking into the future and observing these last couple recruiting classes, we are building more depth and more talent than we have in over 15 years. Given the holes we have to fill, and the little gaps and misses we still see in recruiting, we're still a couple classes from where we need to be. There is no doubt in my mind, however, that OP's basic premise that this is the year we can and should reach escape velocity from the rest of the Coastal is correct. I'd actually argue that happened last year, but with the game in Blacksburg this fall, it's right to say we need to wait and see. This is a very important season, no doubt.

My man! Preach

 

[Zanecane]

Or the SEC East.

OK, so now we've named an arguably terrible division in all 4 of the P5 conferences that have divisions. When you are talking about such a small data set, and such a subjective value, the fact that it is even a discussion most certainly does NOT prove your point. The fact of the matter is, the ACC and Miami by extension (or vice versa depending on your perspective) take a lot of unfair crap about the strength of the Coastal division. And no, our division is not a gauntlet of national powerhouses, I will certainly grant that, but it is also not the punching bag it's made out to be by Paul Finebaum.

Just look at the final records for the teams in the SEC East and the Coastal. Keeping in mind that UGA didn't actually play the best team in their conference in the SEC championship game, the records are essentially identical, granted Georgia was the better team at the end of last season, it is somewhat understandable given the depth that CMR bestowed them with and the lack thereof that we had by the end of the season. The results against (opponent in common) ND at least show that, when healthy and playing well, Miami and UGA were at minimum comparable.

(ACC teams records appear to be regular season only)
ACC Coastal: SEC East:
Miami (10-2) UGA (13-2)
Vag T (9-4) South Cac (9-4)
GT (5-6) KKKtucky (7-6)
Duke (7-6) Misery (7-6)
UVA (6-7) Felony (4-7)
Pitt (5-7) Vandy (5-7)
UNC (3-9) Tenn (4-8)

Pretty **** comparable, isn't it?

Be a realist if you want, but I'm sick and ****** tired of our own fans slurping up the bull**** that eSECpn and the rest of the media spews, without any critical thought or analysis, accepting it as true just because someone on TV or in print says it, and then regurgitating the same crap to impugn the very program that they purport to root for. Guess what guys, it's 2018, the media doesn't tell the truth anymore. They just sell stories and narratives. Truth is dead and there's no interest or profit in it. If you want to **** on the Canes, that's fine, but go get yourself a cot **** Semenholes or Gaytors hat and do it on your own time. Ain't nobody got time for that crap up in CIS.

We had the best college football team of all time while dominating the Big East. I'm sure the media hated on us but looking back now no one remembers who we played all season to get that ring, but they do remember the bling!

We just need to beat the team in front of us week in and week out. We do that this season and we pull away from the division for good.