Starting from the Bottom (Long)

I suspect we'll be hiring Butch this year, or playing against him.

At UNC, the damned basketball school - he was cleaning our clock - and building that program fast.

Hire Butch. A sure thing for a turnaround. A sure program builder. A sure talent evaluator. A sure dynasty builder.

Every single problem this program has - including money - can be solved with that one hire.

Give him a good checkbook to hire whatever coordinators he wants - instant turnaround, even with the current players.

This isn't that hard.
 
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I suspect we'll be hiring Butch this year, or playing against him.

At UNC, the damned basketball school - he was cleaning our clock - and building that program fast.

Hire Butch. A sure thing for a turnaround. A sure program builder. A sure talent evaluator. A sure dynasty builder.

Every single problem this program has - including money - can be solved with that one hire.

Give him a good checkbook to hire whatever coordinators he wants - instant turnaround, even with the current players.

This isn't that hard.

^^This in a nutshell. Proven coach and already knows how to build a Miami program. That would be a grand slam.
 
Disagree with OP.

Golden still pulls in highly ranked classes, despite not winning a **** thing...and he'd have even better classes if he were even a mediocre coach. Recruits obviously still like UM. The UM brand is still strong; not as strong as it was 10 years ago, but it hasn't sunk to a level akin to FAU, FIU, UCF or USF, either.

10-15 years of mediocrity does not break a program. Just ask ND, or USC, or any of a dozen other schools that have gone through extended periods of sustained mediocrity. True, the longer that mediocrity continues, the less it seems likely (to fans, at least) that we'll ever return to relevance...but as long as there are specials on ESPN about us, as long as there is yearly speculation about whether "the U is back," as long as there are guys like Kaaya and Duke Johnson who help recruit the top talent to UM to rebuild what was once great, we'll have a shot. All it takes a coach who can utilize the talent correctly.

I considered the "Golden recruiting well" right now as I was writing the thread and here's why I disagree with you:

1. When he was hired our brand was stronger than it was now. Plus, he had the momentum of a first year/second year coach and was able to capitalize on that boost to recruit well.
2. I believe he continues to do ok for himself more-so because he has coaches on his staff and team that are respected and understand the culture in South Florida. He's got guys like Ice, Baez, Coley, and Beard that have coached in South Florida and are getting some of the kids they coached themselves. Further, Golden himself has more experience recruiting and has established connections in South Florida over time. I believe this is masking some of our brand/product deficiencies.
3. However, I still believe his recruiting tenure overall shows the decline of our prowess in the area. We've continually missed on ELITE prospects in the area (cook, sony, valentine, rudolph, lane, etc.) Other teams are basically coming down here and hand picking the elite guys.

You're right. 10-15 years will not kill us but how about 20-25 years. I'm not saying that we'll be suck for the rest of eternity. My whole point I'm making is that as the time goes on it will be harder and harder for a coach to bring us out of mediocrity.

1. It wasn't just his first year(s), though. In fact, IMO he's recruiting better now than when he first arrived. We pulled in a nice haul this year by nearly any measure, and next year's class is among the top in the nation...and we're in Golden's 5th year and 14 years after our last NC. Feb 2016 is still a long way away, granted, and who knows how many decommits we'll have between now and then... but the point remains that top kids are still willing to give UM a look. They'd be more likely to stick with their commits if we were winning. The same can't be said for the schools you're trying to compare us to (FAU, UCF, USF, etc).
2. Again, however you want to couch it, the point is that elite kids are still giving UM a look. Put it on Ice or whomever...there will always be guys like Ice and Beard on staff, guys with local ties who will reinforce the brand and connect with kids. That's the benefit of being UM...you have tons of former players and coaches with ties to area schools. That's not going to cease when Golden is fired; my guess is whoever's next will also want a staff littered with those kinda guys.
3. Can't deny we've missed on some elite guys. But how much of that has to do with Golden's incompetence, though? We rag on him for not even going after some of these top cats...you can't expect to bring them in if Golden doesn't go after them. Nor can you expect to recruit a bevy of 5-star kids if Golden can't win on the field. And yet he still gets a ton of high-3 and 4 star kids. Which, to me, means it has little to do with brand and more to do with Golden's lack of ability.
4. You're projecting out another 10 years of mediocrity...which means another 2 or 3 coaches down the line. Sure, after that it gets harder to rebound, no doubt. But we're not even close to that yet, so why assume the worst? We're in a position to rebound quickly once Golden is fired. It doesn't take a Harbaugh or Meyer or Saban to do it.

Disagree once again. I'm not saying Al Golden is a bad recruiter, actually I think to the contrary. I don't think it's Golden's ability to recruit that is hurting us but rather the state of our program (he's the worst of coach of all time and because of that we don't win) which is further diminishing our brand. He's Al the used car salesman and he's particularly good at bull****qing and selling the program. **** he even convinced most of us for a while that he was the savior. No doubt he's made foolish and amateurish mistakes like pulling Denver Kirkland's scholly or not offering studs in our backyard but for the most part he's on top of his ****. He is the first to offer a lot of under the radar guys (Kaaya, Rudolph) and if he was a good coach he would flourish in that area.

Take Amari Cooper, for example, who basically said he loves the U but doesn't want to come here because he likes winning more. My purpose of the article was to simply state that not only are many kids leaving us because we suck right now but also some are staying because they grew up loving the U and watching us dominate like Amari, but if mediocrity continues, we'll not only suck but they'll be no more recruits who grew up watching us 'dominate' and love the U (ex. Duke Johnson). Take this piece of evidence for example:

"Of the 140 Florida prospects awarded a four- or five-star grade from 247Sports’ composite ratings in the last three (2013-15) recruiting classes, only 15 signed on to play for the Hurricanes."

That's a pretty damning statistic.

You just said it all with your example of Amari Cooper, though. That has nothing to do with "brand." It has to do with product on the field. The two are different. It's like the "brand" of Nike versus the actual performance of Nike gear...the first is not necessarily related to the second.

The UM "brand" is strong. People still recognize the U around the world. ESPN loves us. We still get kids into the league. Kids want to come here to bring back the U mystique (see Kaaya and Duke and a whole bunch of others before them).

The only thing lacking is the on-the-field production. And that is on Golden (and Shannon before him). Win and guys like Cooper will come. For now we have to be happy with 3 and 4-star guys. That's still a far cry from 1-and 2-star guys that populate the rosters of FAU etc. It'll take a long time for us to sink to that level.

Again, I feel like you're reaaaaalllly looking at things in the most dire way possible. You're forecasting another 10-15 years of mediocrity and saying "what if?" The likelihood of that happening is quite low, IMO. But hey, if you want to be pessimistic about it, be my guest.

Of course, win and they come, but that is totally disregarding what I'm saying. Maybe I'm not explaining my my argument clearly.

Cooper- represents the type of player who if you're team is doing well more of these players will look you're way.

Duke Johnson (Perryman/Thomas/etc.)- Represents the type of player that Brand pulled in. Johnson grew up in Canes clothes. Watched us ball when he was younger and was coming to the U no matter what.

When the next coach comes (or assuming I'm jumping gun as you pointed out and he does poorly and it's the next coach after him) that coach will start at a disadvantage. He will lose players not only because we "suck" (like Cooper) but won't have a 'leg up' because the types of players that were inspired by Miami play growing up will be nonexistent. There will be lesser brand pull and thus the coach will start with less talent. Making it harder for him to make us competitive.
 
Just today on CFB live (ESPN), the analysts were discussing weather or not Steve Spurrier reached his pinnacle and was now on the decline, due to his age. One of the analysts, defending Spurrier, said he had three 11 win seasons in a row and his 'bad' year was still in plus territory as the team still finished with a winning record. To which Paul Finenbaum responded (paraphrasing), "He won 7 games because he beat Miami at the end of the year, does that even count in College Football anymore?"

We're jokes. Mediocre, disrespected, and treated as an inconsequential football team. Obviously we already know that but I want to go further. My question is, are we done for good? And what I mean to say by that is not some absolute statement claiming that we can never be good or elite again. Sure we could be a contender again, but from what point do we have to begin our ascent? Coker comes in, wins a championship, and then has some awful years. Shannon and even Golden come in as new Head coaches and benefit from our tradition, prestige, and history. They say to recruits and the media something to the effect of "that wasn't Miami football. That was just a bump in the road. We're still NFLU. We're still a powerhouse team and come play for Miami because overall we're winners and we've always won." Our brand was recognized and it sold.

Essentially, talented football prospects thought of Miami as a prestigious and powerhouse program. When they thought of Miami they thought of our 5 NC's, the 00-02 boys, our previous dominance, and our plethora of top caliber NFL talent. So whenever this question of "are we done for good" is asked many respond saying the question is nonsense. They're retort always goes something like this, "We've never had a lot of resources and our budget has always been small. Yea we suck now but we'll always be good and we'll rebound because we live in the most talent-rich area in the country. We just need an above average Head coach who can lock up that talent, coach them up, and we'll be back in contention." But that line of thinking misses the point. Our small budget hires worked and had the potential to work because our brand compensated for the low 'status' hire in reaching out to recruits. Our coach was able to acquire the athletes because of our brand and then once our coach got the horses and proved he could coach (Johnson, Butch, etc.) status and brand complemented each other. Our relatively unknown coach had a leg up.

My point is, we're not Michigan. We can't (or won't) go out and hire a popular and high status figure to fix our problems. Harbaugh will restore the brand, the brand won't lift up Harbaugh. He can sell to recruits that he is a proven NFL coach. We have a small budget, and it seems for the foreseeable future we'll continue to be a small-budget school, so we'll never rebound our program and brand with a "Harbaugh" type of fix. FIU and FAU are from South Florida and are located in the most talent-rich area in terms of football prospects, why haven't they ever been good? Why can't they lure in top prospects? Obviously because they have no brand, they're not seen as 'football' schools. We're dangerously close to a point in which our brand (or maybe we're already there) will no longer ensure or sustain our present or future competitiveness.

I believe that our next low-status hire after Golden is fired this year (Cristobal, Stitt, etc.) won't benefit or will barely benefit from our brand. It will be tougher for him to recruit down here and tougher for him to recruit around the country. Future college players no longer think of Miami as that dominant and prestigious program. It's been 15 years since we've won anything and in just a few short years college prospects will have been born in an era in which Miami was consistently mediocre. They grew up watching Florida, Florida St., Alabama, and a whole host of others dominate the college landscape. Our coach can no longer say we've hit a few bumps in the road because our brand has fallen of a cliff. Our next hire needs to be a coach not a corch (someone along the lines of Briles, Patterson, Dantonio) because relying on the Miami of old will no longer work. We'll have to reinvent ourselves, which is extremely, extremely hard. We can't rely on an average or above-average coach to win us games because he won't have access to the caliber of athlete that we're accustomed to signing. We'll be starting closer to the bottom then we've ever started. Another 5 to 10 years of mediocrity and at what point is our brand distinguishable from the brands of UCF, FIU, or FAU?

Chuck Pagano. Last year of his contract with the Colts, they're going to get waxed in the playoffs again and he will be fired. He might even bring in Butch to help.

This.. I live in Indy..There is some heat with this situation. I am thinking the exact same thing. My god he would be perfect.
 
I considered the "Golden recruiting well" right now as I was writing the thread and here's why I disagree with you:

1. When he was hired our brand was stronger than it was now. Plus, he had the momentum of a first year/second year coach and was able to capitalize on that boost to recruit well.
2. I believe he continues to do ok for himself more-so because he has coaches on his staff and team that are respected and understand the culture in South Florida. He's got guys like Ice, Baez, Coley, and Beard that have coached in South Florida and are getting some of the kids they coached themselves. Further, Golden himself has more experience recruiting and has established connections in South Florida over time. I believe this is masking some of our brand/product deficiencies.
3. However, I still believe his recruiting tenure overall shows the decline of our prowess in the area. We've continually missed on ELITE prospects in the area (cook, sony, valentine, rudolph, lane, etc.) Other teams are basically coming down here and hand picking the elite guys.

You're right. 10-15 years will not kill us but how about 20-25 years. I'm not saying that we'll be suck for the rest of eternity. My whole point I'm making is that as the time goes on it will be harder and harder for a coach to bring us out of mediocrity.

1. It wasn't just his first year(s), though. In fact, IMO he's recruiting better now than when he first arrived. We pulled in a nice haul this year by nearly any measure, and next year's class is among the top in the nation...and we're in Golden's 5th year and 14 years after our last NC. Feb 2016 is still a long way away, granted, and who knows how many decommits we'll have between now and then... but the point remains that top kids are still willing to give UM a look. They'd be more likely to stick with their commits if we were winning. The same can't be said for the schools you're trying to compare us to (FAU, UCF, USF, etc).
2. Again, however you want to couch it, the point is that elite kids are still giving UM a look. Put it on Ice or whomever...there will always be guys like Ice and Beard on staff, guys with local ties who will reinforce the brand and connect with kids. That's the benefit of being UM...you have tons of former players and coaches with ties to area schools. That's not going to cease when Golden is fired; my guess is whoever's next will also want a staff littered with those kinda guys.
3. Can't deny we've missed on some elite guys. But how much of that has to do with Golden's incompetence, though? We rag on him for not even going after some of these top cats...you can't expect to bring them in if Golden doesn't go after them. Nor can you expect to recruit a bevy of 5-star kids if Golden can't win on the field. And yet he still gets a ton of high-3 and 4 star kids. Which, to me, means it has little to do with brand and more to do with Golden's lack of ability.
4. You're projecting out another 10 years of mediocrity...which means another 2 or 3 coaches down the line. Sure, after that it gets harder to rebound, no doubt. But we're not even close to that yet, so why assume the worst? We're in a position to rebound quickly once Golden is fired. It doesn't take a Harbaugh or Meyer or Saban to do it.

Disagree once again. I'm not saying Al Golden is a bad recruiter, actually I think to the contrary. I don't think it's Golden's ability to recruit that is hurting us but rather the state of our program (he's the worst of coach of all time and because of that we don't win) which is further diminishing our brand. He's Al the used car salesman and he's particularly good at bull****qing and selling the program. **** he even convinced most of us for a while that he was the savior. No doubt he's made foolish and amateurish mistakes like pulling Denver Kirkland's scholly or not offering studs in our backyard but for the most part he's on top of his ****. He is the first to offer a lot of under the radar guys (Kaaya, Rudolph) and if he was a good coach he would flourish in that area.

Take Amari Cooper, for example, who basically said he loves the U but doesn't want to come here because he likes winning more. My purpose of the article was to simply state that not only are many kids leaving us because we suck right now but also some are staying because they grew up loving the U and watching us dominate like Amari, but if mediocrity continues, we'll not only suck but they'll be no more recruits who grew up watching us 'dominate' and love the U (ex. Duke Johnson). Take this piece of evidence for example:

"Of the 140 Florida prospects awarded a four- or five-star grade from 247Sports’ composite ratings in the last three (2013-15) recruiting classes, only 15 signed on to play for the Hurricanes."

That's a pretty damning statistic.

You just said it all with your example of Amari Cooper, though. That has nothing to do with "brand." It has to do with product on the field. The two are different. It's like the "brand" of Nike versus the actual performance of Nike gear...the first is not necessarily related to the second.

The UM "brand" is strong. People still recognize the U around the world. ESPN loves us. We still get kids into the league. Kids want to come here to bring back the U mystique (see Kaaya and Duke and a whole bunch of others before them).

The only thing lacking is the on-the-field production. And that is on Golden (and Shannon before him). Win and guys like Cooper will come. For now we have to be happy with 3 and 4-star guys. That's still a far cry from 1-and 2-star guys that populate the rosters of FAU etc. It'll take a long time for us to sink to that level.

Again, I feel like you're reaaaaalllly looking at things in the most dire way possible. You're forecasting another 10-15 years of mediocrity and saying "what if?" The likelihood of that happening is quite low, IMO. But hey, if you want to be pessimistic about it, be my guest.

Of course, win and they come, but that is totally disregarding what I'm saying. Maybe I'm not explaining my my argument clearly.

Cooper- represents the type of player who if you're team is doing well more of these players will look you're way.

Duke Johnson (Perryman/Thomas/etc.)- Represents the type of player that Brand pulled in. Johnson grew up in Canes clothes. Watched us ball when he was younger and was coming to the U no matter what.

When the next coach comes (or assuming I'm jumping gun as you pointed out and he does poorly and it's the next coach after him) that coach will start at a disadvantage. He will lose players not only because we "suck" (like Cooper) but won't have a 'leg up' because the types of players that were inspired by Miami play growing up will be nonexistent. There will be lesser brand pull and thus the coach will start with less talent. Making it harder for him to make us competitive.

Your argument is a bit flawed because your information on Cooper is wrong. Cooper didn't choose Bama over UM because he wanted to win. Straight from a family member, Cooper met with Folden. He was set to be a Cane. Folden strong-armed him and demanded a commitment on the spot. Cooper got turned off and the rest is history. Cooper would have been a Cane but for Folden attempting to strong-arm him into committing on the spot.
 
Pagano?

The first two times Butch called, Pagano joined him.

I'm sure Pagano would do so again for the third time.
 
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Of course the Univ. of Facking Miami will not do it.

Yes. Too many puzzies in this admins and BOT. They got their feelings hurt when Butch left for the Browns after these cheap azzholes jerked him around over his contract. Now, they try to associate him with the Carolina mess that had been going on long, long before he ever showed up in Chapel Hill. The man took a job there when it was offered. Can he possibly be aware of every damned thing that's going on at the place that hired him? This stuff may have been going on when the legend DEAN SMITH was there!

The people who run this effing school are efffing morons. Always have been. Always will be. The fans and alums should demand Davis be hired and stop puzzy footing with this bunch of trustfund, pretend Ivy League wimps. There has to be a way for the alums to get rid of at least the worst of this gang anyway possible. Otherwise we'll be stuck with lying little eels like Golden who can't coach their way out of a paper bag while they are sending out resumes at the same time in hopes a bigger school will give them even more money for doing chit. (I'm looking at you, Illinois!)

Enuff is enuff. This thing with AQM, after he sat out a whole season and was loyal enough to return to this program is just the icing on this **** cake for me. He took his punishment like a man and now Golden kicks him around some more. Tough guy Golden throwing his weight around like always. . It would be laughable if it wasn't so **** maddening and stupid! Golden acting the way he thinks Joe Pa would have in this situation: The same Joe Pa that kept a child rapist on his staff for decades!
 
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We're quite distinguishable from UCF.

They've recently won the Fiesta Bowl.

You're asking the wrong question.

What you should be asking is "will we ever be relevant again?"

Definitely not, as long as Golden is around.
 
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