Starting from the Bottom (Long)

[CanesNation26]

Just today on CFB live (ESPN), the analysts were discussing weather or not Steve Spurrier reached his pinnacle and was now on the decline, due to his age. One of the analysts, defending Spurrier, said he had three 11 win seasons in a row and his 'bad' year was still in plus territory as the team still finished with a winning record. To which Paul Finenbaum responded (paraphrasing), "He won 7 games because he beat Miami at the end of the year, does that even count in College Football anymore?"

We're jokes. Mediocre, disrespected, and treated as an inconsequential football team. Obviously we already know that but I want to go further. My question is, are we done for good? And what I mean to say by that is not some absolute statement claiming that we can never be good or elite again. Sure we could be a contender again, but from what point do we have to begin our ascent? Coker comes in, wins a championship, and then has some awful years. Shannon and even Golden come in as new Head coaches and benefit from our tradition, prestige, and history. They say to recruits and the media something to the effect of "that wasn't Miami football. That was just a bump in the road. We're still NFLU. We're still a powerhouse team and come play for Miami because overall we're winners and we've always won." Our brand was recognized and it sold.

Essentially, talented football prospects thought of Miami as a prestigious and powerhouse program. When they thought of Miami they thought of our 5 NC's, the 00-02 boys, our previous dominance, and our plethora of top caliber NFL talent. So whenever this question of "are we done for good" is asked many respond saying the question is nonsense. They're retort always goes something like this, "We've never had a lot of resources and our budget has always been small. Yea we suck now but we'll always be good and we'll rebound because we live in the most talent-rich area in the country. We just need an above average Head coach who can lock up that talent, coach them up, and we'll be back in contention." But that line of thinking misses the point. Our small budget hires worked and had the potential to work because our brand compensated for the low 'status' hire in reaching out to recruits. Our coach was able to acquire the athletes because of our brand and then once our coach got the horses and proved he could coach (Johnson, Butch, etc.) status and brand complemented each other. Our relatively unknown coach had a leg up.

My point is, we're not Michigan. We can't (or won't) go out and hire a popular and high status figure to fix our problems. Harbaugh will restore the brand, the brand won't lift up Harbaugh. He can sell to recruits that he is a proven NFL coach. We have a small budget, and it seems for the foreseeable future we'll continue to be a small-budget school, so we'll never rebound our program and brand with a "Harbaugh" type of fix. FIU and FAU are from South Florida and are located in the most talent-rich area in terms of football prospects, why haven't they ever been good? Why can't they lure in top prospects? Obviously because they have no brand, they're not seen as 'football' schools. We're dangerously close to a point in which our brand (or maybe we're already there) will no longer ensure or sustain our present or future competitiveness.

I believe that our next low-status hire after Golden is fired this year (Cristobal, Stitt, etc.) won't benefit or will barely benefit from our brand. It will be tougher for him to recruit down here and tougher for him to recruit around the country. Future college players no longer think of Miami as that dominant and prestigious program. It's been 15 years since we've won anything and in just a few short years college prospects will have been born in an era in which Miami was consistently mediocre. They grew up watching Florida, Florida St., Alabama, and a whole host of others dominate the college landscape. Our coach can no longer say we've hit a few bumps in the road because our brand has fallen of a cliff. Our next hire needs to be a coach not a corch (someone along the lines of Briles, Patterson, Dantonio) because relying on the Miami of old will no longer work. We'll have to reinvent ourselves, which is extremely, extremely hard. We can't rely on an average or above-average coach to win us games because he won't have access to the caliber of athlete that we're accustomed to signing. We'll be starting closer to the bottom then we've ever started. Another 5 to 10 years of mediocrity and at what point is our brand distinguishable from the brands of UCF, FIU, or FAU?

 

[User-4525]

Good read. Agree with mostly everything. It is imperative that our next coach is a boom not bust. Furthermore, it is essential that we open up the check books to surround him with an elite staff.


Start to disagree on the small matters in last paragraph. Our brand still resonates in the place where it matters most: south Florida. If the next coach can come in and do "more with less" they will start to stockpile talent via recruiting. From there on, the brand will rebuild itself and kids will start mentioning Dorsett, perryman and Kaaya as why they chose Miami instead of Reggie Wayne, Reed and Lewis.


The kids that are choosing FSU now didn't grow up seeing FSU dominate. However, in the past 5 years FSU has remained a top 5 program. We do the same thing, we can secure recruiting classes such as FSU. A lot of the kids actually mention they grew up Miami fans but don't go here because of our current situation.

 

[Cane Dynasty]

I like Butch Davis for our next HC.

I also like that Fuentes guy that keeps getting mention.

Either one would be fine.

 

[Al Foil]

Just today on CFB live (ESPN), the analysts were discussing weather or not Steve Spurrier reached his pinnacle and was now on the decline, due to his age. One of the analysts, defending Spurrier, said he had three 11 win seasons in a row and his 'bad' year was still in plus territory as the team still finished with a winning record. To which Paul Finenbaum responded (paraphrasing), "He won 7 games because he beat Miami at the end of the year, does that even count in College Football anymore?"

We're jokes. Mediocre, disrespected, and treated as an inconsequential football team. Obviously we already know that but I want to go further. My question is, are we done for good? And what I mean to say by that is not some absolute statement claiming that we can never be good or elite again. Sure we could be a contender again, but from what point do we have to begin our ascent? Coker comes in, wins a championship, and then has some awful years. Shannon and even Golden come in as new Head coaches and benefit from our tradition, prestige, and history. They say to recruits and the media something to the effect of "that wasn't Miami football. That was just a bump in the road. We're still NFLU. We're still a powerhouse team and come play for Miami because overall we're winners and we've always won." Our brand was recognized and it sold.

Essentially, talented football prospects thought of Miami as a prestigious and powerhouse program. When they thought of Miami they thought of our 5 NC's, the 00-02 boys, our previous dominance, and our plethora of top caliber NFL talent. So whenever this question of "are we done for good" is asked many respond saying the question is nonsense. They're retort always goes something like this, "We've never had a lot of resources and our budget has always been small. Yea we suck now but we'll always be good and we'll rebound because we live in the most talent-rich area in the country. We just need an above average Head coach who can lock up that talent, coach them up, and we'll be back in contention." But that line of thinking misses the point. Our small budget hires worked and had the potential to work because our brand compensated for the low 'status' hire in reaching out to recruits. Our coach was able to acquire the athletes because of our brand and then once our coach got the horses and proved he could coach (Johnson, Butch, etc.) status and brand complemented each other. Our relatively unknown coach had a leg up.

My point is, we're not Michigan. We can't (or won't) go out and hire a popular and high status figure to fix our problems. Harbaugh will restore the brand, the brand won't lift up Harbaugh. He can sell to recruits that he is a proven NFL coach. We have a small budget, and it seems for the foreseeable future we'll continue to be a small-budget school, so we'll never rebound our program and brand with a "Harbaugh" type of fix. FIU and FAU are from South Florida and are located in the most talent-rich area in terms of football prospects, why haven't they ever been good? Why can't they lure in top prospects? Obviously because they have no brand, they're not seen as 'football' schools. We're dangerously close to a point in which our brand (or maybe we're already there) will no longer ensure or sustain our present or future competitiveness.

I believe that our next low-status hire after Golden is fired this year (Cristobal, Stitt, etc.) won't benefit or will barely benefit from our brand. It will be tougher for him to recruit down here and tougher for him to recruit around the country. Future college players no longer think of Miami as that dominant and prestigious program. It's been 15 years since we've won anything and in just a few short years college prospects will have been born in an era in which Miami was consistently mediocre. They grew up watching Florida, Florida St., Alabama, and a whole host of others dominate the college landscape. Our coach can no longer say we've hit a few bumps in the road because our brand has fallen of a cliff. Our next hire needs to be a coach not a corch (someone along the lines of Briles, Patterson, Dantonio) because relying on the Miami of old will no longer work. We'll have to reinvent ourselves, which is extremely, extremely hard. We can't rely on an average or above-average coach to win us games because he won't have access to the caliber of athlete that we're accustomed to signing. We'll be starting closer to the bottom then we've ever started. Another 5 to 10 years of mediocrity and at what point is our brand distinguishable from the brands of UCF, FIU, or FAU?

You're a doofus.

You can swing a dead cat in Coral Gables and hit 25 future NFL draft picks every year.

We've hired the two most incompetent lame head coaches possible in the last two cycles. They were hired to clean up the programs image...not coach football. Shannon and Golden are everything you do not want in a head coach. Stubborn, conservative, slow, etc.

If we get a guy in here that brings an exciting aggressive brand od football...they will flock to Coral Gables.

 

[cowboycane]

Just today on CFB live (ESPN), the analysts were discussing weather or not Steve Spurrier reached his pinnacle and was now on the decline, due to his age. One of the analysts, defending Spurrier, said he had three 11 win seasons in a row and his 'bad' year was still in plus territory as the team still finished with a winning record. To which Paul Finenbaum responded (paraphrasing), "He won 7 games because he beat Miami at the end of the year, does that even count in College Football anymore?"

We're jokes. Mediocre, disrespected, and treated as an inconsequential football team. Obviously we already know that but I want to go further. My question is, are we done for good? And what I mean to say by that is not some absolute statement claiming that we can never be good or elite again. Sure we could be a contender again, but from what point do we have to begin our ascent? Coker comes in, wins a championship, and then has some awful years. Shannon and even Golden come in as new Head coaches and benefit from our tradition, prestige, and history. They say to recruits and the media something to the effect of "that wasn't Miami football. That was just a bump in the road. We're still NFLU. We're still a powerhouse team and come play for Miami because overall we're winners and we've always won." Our brand was recognized and it sold.

Essentially, talented football prospects thought of Miami as a prestigious and powerhouse program. When they thought of Miami they thought of our 5 NC's, the 00-02 boys, our previous dominance, and our plethora of top caliber NFL talent. So whenever this question of "are we done for good" is asked many respond saying the question is nonsense. They're retort always goes something like this, "We've never had a lot of resources and our budget has always been small. Yea we suck now but we'll always be good and we'll rebound because we live in the most talent-rich area in the country. We just need an above average Head coach who can lock up that talent, coach them up, and we'll be back in contention." But that line of thinking misses the point. Our small budget hires worked and had the potential to work because our brand compensated for the low 'status' hire in reaching out to recruits. Our coach was able to acquire the athletes because of our brand and then once our coach got the horses and proved he could coach (Johnson, Butch, etc.) status and brand complemented each other. Our relatively unknown coach had a leg up.

My point is, we're not Michigan. We can't (or won't) go out and hire a popular and high status figure to fix our problems. Harbaugh will restore the brand, the brand won't lift up Harbaugh. He can sell to recruits that he is a proven NFL coach. We have a small budget, and it seems for the foreseeable future we'll continue to be a small-budget school, so we'll never rebound our program and brand with a "Harbaugh" type of fix. FIU and FAU are from South Florida and are located in the most talent-rich area in terms of football prospects, why haven't they ever been good? Why can't they lure in top prospects? Obviously because they have no brand, they're not seen as 'football' schools. We're dangerously close to a point in which our brand (or maybe we're already there) will no longer ensure or sustain our present or future competitiveness.

I believe that our next low-status hire after Golden is fired this year (Cristobal, Stitt, etc.) won't benefit or will barely benefit from our brand. It will be tougher for him to recruit down here and tougher for him to recruit around the country. Future college players no longer think of Miami as that dominant and prestigious program. It's been 15 years since we've won anything and in just a few short years college prospects will have been born in an era in which Miami was consistently mediocre. They grew up watching Florida, Florida St., Alabama, and a whole host of others dominate the college landscape. Our coach can no longer say we've hit a few bumps in the road because our brand has fallen of a cliff. Our next hire needs to be a coach not a corch (someone along the lines of Briles, Patterson, Dantonio) because relying on the Miami of old will no longer work. We'll have to reinvent ourselves, which is extremely, extremely hard. We can't rely on an average or above-average coach to win us games because he won't have access to the caliber of athlete that we're accustomed to signing. We'll be starting closer to the bottom then we've ever started. Another 5 to 10 years of mediocrity and at what point is our brand distinguishable from the brands of UCF, FIU, or FAU?

Chuck Pagano. Last year of his contract with the Colts, they're going to get waxed in the playoffs again and he will be fired. He might even bring in Butch to help.

 

[Klamalama]

One of the analysts, defending Spurrier, said he had three 11 win seasons in a row and his 'bad' year was still in plus territory as the team still finished with a winning record. To which Paul Finenbaum responded (paraphrasing), "He won 7 games because he beat Miami at the end of the year, does that even count in College Football anymore?"

Thanks to the BOT for our current irrelevance. Thanks OP, for a great write up. This should be pinned.

The answer for all our problems is
BRING BACK BUTCH.

 

[MizCane]

Step away from the ledge. We are 1 good hire away from being relevant again. Our brand is still strong. All we need is someone to make us respectable on the field again. Add in our geographic location and we will be fine as long as they get the right guy.

 

[L A M P]

The answer for all our problems is BRING BACK BUTCH.

It really is that simple..

 

[g2bGators]

Just today on CFB live (ESPN), the analysts were discussing weather or not Steve Spurrier reached his pinnacle and was now on the decline, due to his age. One of the analysts, defending Spurrier, said he had three 11 win seasons in a row and his 'bad' year was still in plus territory as the team still finished with a winning record. To which Paul Finenbaum responded (paraphrasing), "He won 7 games because he beat Miami at the end of the year, does that even count in College Football anymore?"

We're jokes. Mediocre, disrespected, and treated as an inconsequential football team. Obviously we already know that but I want to go further. My question is, are we done for good? And what I mean to say by that is not some absolute statement claiming that we can never be good or elite again. Sure we could be a contender again, but from what point do we have to begin our ascent? Coker comes in, wins a championship, and then has some awful years. Shannon and even Golden come in as new Head coaches and benefit from our tradition, prestige, and history. They say to recruits and the media something to the effect of "that wasn't Miami football. That was just a bump in the road. We're still NFLU. We're still a powerhouse team and come play for Miami because overall we're winners and we've always won." Our brand was recognized and it sold.

Essentially, talented football prospects thought of Miami as a prestigious and powerhouse program. When they thought of Miami they thought of our 5 NC's, the 00-02 boys, our previous dominance, and our plethora of top caliber NFL talent. So whenever this question of "are we done for good" is asked many respond saying the question is nonsense. They're retort always goes something like this, "We've never had a lot of resources and our budget has always been small. Yea we suck now but we'll always be good and we'll rebound because we live in the most talent-rich area in the country. We just need an above average Head coach who can lock up that talent, coach them up, and we'll be back in contention." But that line of thinking misses the point. Our small budget hires worked and had the potential to work because our brand compensated for the low 'status' hire in reaching out to recruits. Our coach was able to acquire the athletes because of our brand and then once our coach got the horses and proved he could coach (Johnson, Butch, etc.) status and brand complemented each other. Our relatively unknown coach had a leg up.

My point is, we're not Michigan. We can't (or won't) go out and hire a popular and high status figure to fix our problems. Harbaugh will restore the brand, the brand won't lift up Harbaugh. He can sell to recruits that he is a proven NFL coach. We have a small budget, and it seems for the foreseeable future we'll continue to be a small-budget school, so we'll never rebound our program and brand with a "Harbaugh" type of fix. FIU and FAU are from South Florida and are located in the most talent-rich area in terms of football prospects, why haven't they ever been good? Why can't they lure in top prospects? Obviously because they have no brand, they're not seen as 'football' schools. We're dangerously close to a point in which our brand (or maybe we're already there) will no longer ensure or sustain our present or future competitiveness.

I believe that our next low-status hire after Golden is fired this year (Cristobal, Stitt, etc.) won't benefit or will barely benefit from our brand. It will be tougher for him to recruit down here and tougher for him to recruit around the country. Future college players no longer think of Miami as that dominant and prestigious program. It's been 15 years since we've won anything and in just a few short years college prospects will have been born in an era in which Miami was consistently mediocre. They grew up watching Florida, Florida St., Alabama, and a whole host of others dominate the college landscape. Our coach can no longer say we've hit a few bumps in the road because our brand has fallen of a cliff. Our next hire needs to be a coach not a corch (someone along the lines of Briles, Patterson, Dantonio) because relying on the Miami of old will no longer work. We'll have to reinvent ourselves, which is extremely, extremely hard. We can't rely on an average or above-average coach to win us games because he won't have access to the caliber of athlete that we're accustomed to signing. We'll be starting closer to the bottom then we've ever started. Another 5 to 10 years of mediocrity and at what point is our brand distinguishable from the brands of UCF, FIU, or FAU?

Honestly at this point a lame duck school like Princeton could out corch Golden.

But you seem like one of the good slurpers tho, good luck with Cristobal.

 

[MiamiVice7]

We just need a good coach with a good (well really, just a non-ridiculous) scheme who brings with him, or can hire, good assistants. Of our last three HEAD COACHING hires, two had zero head coaching experience and were not cut out for the job, and the other is the softest in the history of it all. We've swung and missed...actually, we've just squared to bunt and still missed...three times in a row.

We really had to whiff hard to get to this point, and that's exactly what we've done. Could it happen again? Of course, but at some point we'll have to hire a coach that halfway has a clue. Then we'll be okay.

 

[954CaneBoi]

Just today on CFB live (ESPN), the analysts were discussing weather or not Steve Spurrier reached his pinnacle and was now on the decline, due to his age. One of the analysts, defending Spurrier, said he had three 11 win seasons in a row and his 'bad' year was still in plus territory as the team still finished with a winning record. To which Paul Finenbaum responded (paraphrasing), "He won 7 games because he beat Miami at the end of the year, does that even count in College Football anymore?"

We're jokes. Mediocre, disrespected, and treated as an inconsequential football team. Obviously we already know that but I want to go further. My question is, are we done for good? And what I mean to say by that is not some absolute statement claiming that we can never be good or elite again. Sure we could be a contender again, but from what point do we have to begin our ascent? Coker comes in, wins a championship, and then has some awful years. Shannon and even Golden come in as new Head coaches and benefit from our tradition, prestige, and history. They say to recruits and the media something to the effect of "that wasn't Miami football. That was just a bump in the road. We're still NFLU. We're still a powerhouse team and come play for Miami because overall we're winners and we've always won." Our brand was recognized and it sold.

Essentially, talented football prospects thought of Miami as a prestigious and powerhouse program. When they thought of Miami they thought of our 5 NC's, the 00-02 boys, our previous dominance, and our plethora of top caliber NFL talent. So whenever this question of "are we done for good" is asked many respond saying the question is nonsense. They're retort always goes something like this, "We've never had a lot of resources and our budget has always been small. Yea we suck now but we'll always be good and we'll rebound because we live in the most talent-rich area in the country. We just need an above average Head coach who can lock up that talent, coach them up, and we'll be back in contention." But that line of thinking misses the point. Our small budget hires worked and had the potential to work because our brand compensated for the low 'status' hire in reaching out to recruits. Our coach was able to acquire the athletes because of our brand and then once our coach got the horses and proved he could coach (Johnson, Butch, etc.) status and brand complemented each other. Our relatively unknown coach had a leg up.

My point is, we're not Michigan. We can't (or won't) go out and hire a popular and high status figure to fix our problems. Harbaugh will restore the brand, the brand won't lift up Harbaugh. He can sell to recruits that he is a proven NFL coach. We have a small budget, and it seems for the foreseeable future we'll continue to be a small-budget school, so we'll never rebound our program and brand with a "Harbaugh" type of fix. FIU and FAU are from South Florida and are located in the most talent-rich area in terms of football prospects, why haven't they ever been good? Why can't they lure in top prospects? Obviously because they have no brand, they're not seen as 'football' schools. We're dangerously close to a point in which our brand (or maybe we're already there) will no longer ensure or sustain our present or future competitiveness.

I believe that our next low-status hire after Golden is fired this year (Cristobal, Stitt, etc.) won't benefit or will barely benefit from our brand. It will be tougher for him to recruit down here and tougher for him to recruit around the country. Future college players no longer think of Miami as that dominant and prestigious program. It's been 15 years since we've won anything and in just a few short years college prospects will have been born in an era in which Miami was consistently mediocre. They grew up watching Florida, Florida St., Alabama, and a whole host of others dominate the college landscape. Our coach can no longer say we've hit a few bumps in the road because our brand has fallen of a cliff. Our next hire needs to be a coach not a corch (someone along the lines of Briles, Patterson, Dantonio) because relying on the Miami of old will no longer work. We'll have to reinvent ourselves, which is extremely, extremely hard. We can't rely on an average or above-average coach to win us games because he won't have access to the caliber of athlete that we're accustomed to signing. We'll be starting closer to the bottom then we've ever started. Another 5 to 10 years of mediocrity and at what point is our brand distinguishable from the brands of UCF, FIU, or FAU?

Honestly at this point a lame duck school like Princeton could out corch Golden.

But you seem like one of the good slurpers tho, good luck with Cristobal.

Golden sucks, but he beat UF so...

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

Disagree with OP.

Golden still pulls in highly ranked classes, despite not winning a **** thing...and he'd have even better classes if he were even a mediocre coach. Recruits obviously still like UM. The UM brand is still strong; not as strong as it was 10 years ago, but it hasn't sunk to a level akin to FAU, FIU, UCF or USF, either.

10-15 years of mediocrity does not break a program. Just ask ND, or USC, or any of a dozen other schools that have gone through extended periods of sustained mediocrity. True, the longer that mediocrity continues, the less it seems likely (to fans, at least) that we'll ever return to relevance...but as long as there are specials on ESPN about us, as long as there is yearly speculation about whether "the U is back," as long as there are guys like Kaaya and Duke Johnson who help recruit the top talent to UM to rebuild what was once great, we'll have a shot. All it takes a coach who can utilize the talent correctly.

 

[CanesNation26]

Disagree with OP.

Golden still pulls in highly ranked classes, despite not winning a **** thing...and he'd have even better classes if he were even a mediocre coach. Recruits obviously still like UM. The UM brand is still strong; not as strong as it was 10 years ago, but it hasn't sunk to a level akin to FAU, FIU, UCF or USF, either.

10-15 years of mediocrity does not break a program. Just ask ND, or USC, or any of a dozen other schools that have gone through extended periods of sustained mediocrity. True, the longer that mediocrity continues, the less it seems likely (to fans, at least) that we'll ever return to relevance...but as long as there are specials on ESPN about us, as long as there is yearly speculation about whether "the U is back," as long as there are guys like Kaaya and Duke Johnson who help recruit the top talent to UM to rebuild what was once great, we'll have a shot. All it takes a coach who can utilize the talent correctly.

I considered the "Golden recruiting well" right now as I was writing the thread and here's why I disagree with you:

1. When he was hired our brand was stronger than it was now. Plus, he had the momentum of a first year/second year coach and was able to capitalize on that boost to recruit well.
2. I believe he continues to do ok for himself more-so because he has coaches on his staff and team that are respected and understand the culture in South Florida. He's got guys like Ice, Baez, Coley, and Beard that have coached in South Florida and are getting some of the kids they coached themselves. Further, Golden himself has more experience recruiting and has established connections in South Florida over time. I believe this is masking some of our brand/product deficiencies.
3. However, I still believe his recruiting tenure overall shows the decline of our prowess in the area. We've continually missed on ELITE prospects in the area (cook, sony, valentine, rudolph, lane, etc.) Other teams are basically coming down here and hand picking the elite guys.

You're right. 10-15 years will not kill us but how about 20-25 years. I'm not saying that we'll be suck for the rest of eternity. My whole point I'm making is that as the time goes on it will be harder and harder for a coach to bring us out of mediocrity.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

Disagree with OP.

Golden still pulls in highly ranked classes, despite not winning a **** thing...and he'd have even better classes if he were even a mediocre coach. Recruits obviously still like UM. The UM brand is still strong; not as strong as it was 10 years ago, but it hasn't sunk to a level akin to FAU, FIU, UCF or USF, either.

10-15 years of mediocrity does not break a program. Just ask ND, or USC, or any of a dozen other schools that have gone through extended periods of sustained mediocrity. True, the longer that mediocrity continues, the less it seems likely (to fans, at least) that we'll ever return to relevance...but as long as there are specials on ESPN about us, as long as there is yearly speculation about whether "the U is back," as long as there are guys like Kaaya and Duke Johnson who help recruit the top talent to UM to rebuild what was once great, we'll have a shot. All it takes a coach who can utilize the talent correctly.

I considered the "Golden recruiting well" right now as I was writing the thread and here's why I disagree with you:

1. When he was hired our brand was stronger than it was now. Plus, he had the momentum of a first year/second year coach and was able to capitalize on that boost to recruit well.
2. I believe he continues to do ok for himself more-so because he has coaches on his staff and team that are respected and understand the culture in South Florida. He's got guys like Ice, Baez, Coley, and Beard that have coached in South Florida and are getting some of the kids they coached themselves. Further, Golden himself has more experience recruiting and has established connections in South Florida over time. I believe this is masking some of our brand/product deficiencies.
3. However, I still believe his recruiting tenure overall shows the decline of our prowess in the area. We've continually missed on ELITE prospects in the area (cook, sony, valentine, rudolph, lane, etc.) Other teams are basically coming down here and hand picking the elite guys.

You're right. 10-15 years will not kill us but how about 20-25 years. I'm not saying that we'll be suck for the rest of eternity. My whole point I'm making is that as the time goes on it will be harder and harder for a coach to bring us out of mediocrity.

1. It wasn't just his first year(s), though. In fact, IMO he's recruiting better now than when he first arrived. We pulled in a nice haul this year by nearly any measure, and next year's class is among the top in the nation...and we're in Golden's 5th year and 14 years after our last NC. Feb 2016 is still a long way away, granted, and who knows how many decommits we'll have between now and then... but the point remains that top kids are still willing to give UM a look. They'd be more likely to stick with their commits if we were winning. The same can't be said for the schools you're trying to compare us to (FAU, UCF, USF, etc).
2. Again, however you want to couch it, the point is that elite kids are still giving UM a look. Put it on Ice or whomever...there will always be guys like Ice and Beard on staff, guys with local ties who will reinforce the brand and connect with kids. That's the benefit of being UM...you have tons of former players and coaches with ties to area schools. That's not going to cease when Golden is fired; my guess is whoever's next will also want a staff littered with those kinda guys.
3. Can't deny we've missed on some elite guys. But how much of that has to do with Golden's incompetence, though? We rag on him for not even going after some of these top cats...you can't expect to bring them in if Golden doesn't go after them. Nor can you expect to recruit a bevy of 5-star kids if Golden can't win on the field. And yet he still gets a ton of high-3 and 4 star kids. Which, to me, means it has little to do with brand and more to do with Golden's lack of ability.
4. You're projecting out another 10 years of mediocrity...which means another 2 or 3 coaches down the line. Sure, after that it gets harder to rebound, no doubt. But we're not even close to that yet, so why assume the worst? We're in a position to rebound quickly once Golden is fired. It doesn't take a Harbaugh or Meyer or Saban to do it.

 

[MovingZen]

Gotta replace Gorlden with somebody who can win. Get better for three years and get into the playoff and the brand/recruiting will be back on top. People like to hate on the U, but the U is good for college football. The question is, does the administration want to win? If they spend money on top tier coaches, the prestige and bowl game money will be flowing in. How can that not be a good thing for the university? If you're not making money in ticket sales, make it in bowl game revenue.. and you gotta win to make that happen.

 

[The Franchise]

Win and the recruits will come. I'm not too wrapped up in that brand stuff. Win and you will get recruits at UM. It's really that simple. In order to win, you need to hire a good HC. He wins. Sells hope. Recruits come.

 

[Jassid82]

Win and the recruits will come. I'm not too wrapped up in that brand stuff. Win and you will get recruits at UM. It's really that simple. In order to win, you need to hire a good HC. He wins. Sells hope. Recruits come.

Agree with this. (imagine that!)...I said this before a year ago..there are only a few programs that can come back from the dead and become elite in the country and the reason is 1) HS talent in the surrounding area 2) alumni 3) brand recognition....Those schools? Texas, USCw, Ohio State, FSU, and Miami.

People talk about ALA, LSU and AUB like they been winning multiple titles with multiple coaches for decades! ALA wasn't **** for years until Saban got there and when he retires they will come back to the pack...AUB too. LSU too. And the list goes on...USC was DEAD. I mean DEAD. They got Pete Carroll and all of a sudden every kid in Cali wanted to be Trojan. Bad hires killed their dynasty. Same with us. Ohio State was a sleeping giant. So was FSU. And so is Texas and Miami.

We got south florida talent on our side. That will always be the equalizer. ALWAYS. Its SO funny that these same words were being spoken back in 1997 but just take out ugly a$$ Finnebaum and plug in Lee corso. I remember the day he said Miami was done. We would never be what we once were. EVER... 3 years later and the NCAA is our oyster.

Too many kids on this board. You guys didn't remember what it was like in the mid-90s and the early 80s when we were super irrelevant. Our games weren't on national tv for YEARS during the early part of the Butch era. Lol. Strictly regional.

We are one coach away. ONE. And its over. People know it..I know FSU fans who say the same thing. If we get Butch, its over. Its curtains. We just have to be patient and stop listening to people like Finnebaum who has his checks signed by the SEC.

 

[CanesNation26]

Disagree with OP.

Golden still pulls in highly ranked classes, despite not winning a **** thing...and he'd have even better classes if he were even a mediocre coach. Recruits obviously still like UM. The UM brand is still strong; not as strong as it was 10 years ago, but it hasn't sunk to a level akin to FAU, FIU, UCF or USF, either.

10-15 years of mediocrity does not break a program. Just ask ND, or USC, or any of a dozen other schools that have gone through extended periods of sustained mediocrity. True, the longer that mediocrity continues, the less it seems likely (to fans, at least) that we'll ever return to relevance...but as long as there are specials on ESPN about us, as long as there is yearly speculation about whether "the U is back," as long as there are guys like Kaaya and Duke Johnson who help recruit the top talent to UM to rebuild what was once great, we'll have a shot. All it takes a coach who can utilize the talent correctly.

I considered the "Golden recruiting well" right now as I was writing the thread and here's why I disagree with you:

1. When he was hired our brand was stronger than it was now. Plus, he had the momentum of a first year/second year coach and was able to capitalize on that boost to recruit well.
2. I believe he continues to do ok for himself more-so because he has coaches on his staff and team that are respected and understand the culture in South Florida. He's got guys like Ice, Baez, Coley, and Beard that have coached in South Florida and are getting some of the kids they coached themselves. Further, Golden himself has more experience recruiting and has established connections in South Florida over time. I believe this is masking some of our brand/product deficiencies.
3. However, I still believe his recruiting tenure overall shows the decline of our prowess in the area. We've continually missed on ELITE prospects in the area (cook, sony, valentine, rudolph, lane, etc.) Other teams are basically coming down here and hand picking the elite guys.

You're right. 10-15 years will not kill us but how about 20-25 years. I'm not saying that we'll be suck for the rest of eternity. My whole point I'm making is that as the time goes on it will be harder and harder for a coach to bring us out of mediocrity.

1. It wasn't just his first year(s), though. In fact, IMO he's recruiting better now than when he first arrived. We pulled in a nice haul this year by nearly any measure, and next year's class is among the top in the nation...and we're in Golden's 5th year and 14 years after our last NC. Feb 2016 is still a long way away, granted, and who knows how many decommits we'll have between now and then... but the point remains that top kids are still willing to give UM a look. They'd be more likely to stick with their commits if we were winning. The same can't be said for the schools you're trying to compare us to (FAU, UCF, USF, etc).
2. Again, however you want to couch it, the point is that elite kids are still giving UM a look. Put it on Ice or whomever...there will always be guys like Ice and Beard on staff, guys with local ties who will reinforce the brand and connect with kids. That's the benefit of being UM...you have tons of former players and coaches with ties to area schools. That's not going to cease when Golden is fired; my guess is whoever's next will also want a staff littered with those kinda guys.
3. Can't deny we've missed on some elite guys. But how much of that has to do with Golden's incompetence, though? We rag on him for not even going after some of these top cats...you can't expect to bring them in if Golden doesn't go after them. Nor can you expect to recruit a bevy of 5-star kids if Golden can't win on the field. And yet he still gets a ton of high-3 and 4 star kids. Which, to me, means it has little to do with brand and more to do with Golden's lack of ability.
4. You're projecting out another 10 years of mediocrity...which means another 2 or 3 coaches down the line. Sure, after that it gets harder to rebound, no doubt. But we're not even close to that yet, so why assume the worst? We're in a position to rebound quickly once Golden is fired. It doesn't take a Harbaugh or Meyer or Saban to do it.

Disagree once again. I'm not saying Al Golden is a bad recruiter, actually I think to the contrary. I don't think it's Golden's ability to recruit that is hurting us but rather the state of our program (he's the worst of coach of all time and because of that we don't win) which is further diminishing our brand. He's Al the used car salesman and he's particularly good at bull****qing and selling the program. **** he even convinced most of us for a while that he was the savior. No doubt he's made foolish and amateurish mistakes like pulling Denver Kirkland's scholly or not offering studs in our backyard but for the most part he's on top of his ****. He is the first to offer a lot of under the radar guys (Kaaya, Rudolph) and if he was a good coach he would flourish in that area.

Take Amari Cooper, for example, who basically said he loves the U but doesn't want to come here because he likes winning more. My purpose of the article was to simply state that not only are many kids leaving us because we suck right now but also some are staying because they grew up loving the U and watching us dominate like Amari, but if mediocrity continues, we'll not only suck but they'll be no more recruits who grew up watching us 'dominate' and love the U (ex. Duke Johnson). Take this piece of evidence for example:

"Of the 140 Florida prospects awarded a four- or five-star grade from 247Sports’ composite ratings in the last three (2013-15) recruiting classes, only 15 signed on to play for the Hurricanes."

That's a pretty damning statistic.

 

[CFLACANE]

Just today on CFB live (ESPN), the analysts were discussing weather or not Steve Spurrier reached his pinnacle and was now on the decline, due to his age. One of the analysts, defending Spurrier, said he had three 11 win seasons in a row and his 'bad' year was still in plus territory as the team still finished with a winning record. To which Paul Finenbaum responded (paraphrasing), "He won 7 games because he beat Miami at the end of the year, does that even count in College Football anymore?"

We're jokes. Mediocre, disrespected, and treated as an inconsequential football team. Obviously we already know that but I want to go further. My question is, are we done for good? And what I mean to say by that is not some absolute statement claiming that we can never be good or elite again. Sure we could be a contender again, but from what point do we have to begin our ascent? Coker comes in, wins a championship, and then has some awful years. Shannon and even Golden come in as new Head coaches and benefit from our tradition, prestige, and history. They say to recruits and the media something to the effect of "that wasn't Miami football. That was just a bump in the road. We're still NFLU. We're still a powerhouse team and come play for Miami because overall we're winners and we've always won." Our brand was recognized and it sold.

Essentially, talented football prospects thought of Miami as a prestigious and powerhouse program. When they thought of Miami they thought of our 5 NC's, the 00-02 boys, our previous dominance, and our plethora of top caliber NFL talent. So whenever this question of "are we done for good" is asked many respond saying the question is nonsense. They're retort always goes something like this, "We've never had a lot of resources and our budget has always been small. Yea we suck now but we'll always be good and we'll rebound because we live in the most talent-rich area in the country. We just need an above average Head coach who can lock up that talent, coach them up, and we'll be back in contention." But that line of thinking misses the point. Our small budget hires worked and had the potential to work because our brand compensated for the low 'status' hire in reaching out to recruits. Our coach was able to acquire the athletes because of our brand and then once our coach got the horses and proved he could coach (Johnson, Butch, etc.) status and brand complemented each other. Our relatively unknown coach had a leg up.

My point is, we're not Michigan. We can't (or won't) go out and hire a popular and high status figure to fix our problems. Harbaugh will restore the brand, the brand won't lift up Harbaugh. He can sell to recruits that he is a proven NFL coach. We have a small budget, and it seems for the foreseeable future we'll continue to be a small-budget school, so we'll never rebound our program and brand with a "Harbaugh" type of fix. FIU and FAU are from South Florida and are located in the most talent-rich area in terms of football prospects, why haven't they ever been good? Why can't they lure in top prospects? Obviously because they have no brand, they're not seen as 'football' schools. We're dangerously close to a point in which our brand (or maybe we're already there) will no longer ensure or sustain our present or future competitiveness.

I believe that our next low-status hire after Golden is fired this year (Cristobal, Stitt, etc.) won't benefit or will barely benefit from our brand. It will be tougher for him to recruit down here and tougher for him to recruit around the country. Future college players no longer think of Miami as that dominant and prestigious program. It's been 15 years since we've won anything and in just a few short years college prospects will have been born in an era in which Miami was consistently mediocre. They grew up watching Florida, Florida St., Alabama, and a whole host of others dominate the college landscape. Our coach can no longer say we've hit a few bumps in the road because our brand has fallen of a cliff. Our next hire needs to be a coach not a corch (someone along the lines of Briles, Patterson, Dantonio) because relying on the Miami of old will no longer work. We'll have to reinvent ourselves, which is extremely, extremely hard. We can't rely on an average or above-average coach to win us games because he won't have access to the caliber of athlete that we're accustomed to signing. We'll be starting closer to the bottom then we've ever started. Another 5 to 10 years of mediocrity and at what point is our brand distinguishable from the brands of UCF, FIU, or FAU?

What the **** do you expect when our fans our even ****tier than our coaches?

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

Disagree with OP.

Golden still pulls in highly ranked classes, despite not winning a **** thing...and he'd have even better classes if he were even a mediocre coach. Recruits obviously still like UM. The UM brand is still strong; not as strong as it was 10 years ago, but it hasn't sunk to a level akin to FAU, FIU, UCF or USF, either.

10-15 years of mediocrity does not break a program. Just ask ND, or USC, or any of a dozen other schools that have gone through extended periods of sustained mediocrity. True, the longer that mediocrity continues, the less it seems likely (to fans, at least) that we'll ever return to relevance...but as long as there are specials on ESPN about us, as long as there is yearly speculation about whether "the U is back," as long as there are guys like Kaaya and Duke Johnson who help recruit the top talent to UM to rebuild what was once great, we'll have a shot. All it takes a coach who can utilize the talent correctly.

I considered the "Golden recruiting well" right now as I was writing the thread and here's why I disagree with you:

1. When he was hired our brand was stronger than it was now. Plus, he had the momentum of a first year/second year coach and was able to capitalize on that boost to recruit well.
2. I believe he continues to do ok for himself more-so because he has coaches on his staff and team that are respected and understand the culture in South Florida. He's got guys like Ice, Baez, Coley, and Beard that have coached in South Florida and are getting some of the kids they coached themselves. Further, Golden himself has more experience recruiting and has established connections in South Florida over time. I believe this is masking some of our brand/product deficiencies.
3. However, I still believe his recruiting tenure overall shows the decline of our prowess in the area. We've continually missed on ELITE prospects in the area (cook, sony, valentine, rudolph, lane, etc.) Other teams are basically coming down here and hand picking the elite guys.

You're right. 10-15 years will not kill us but how about 20-25 years. I'm not saying that we'll be suck for the rest of eternity. My whole point I'm making is that as the time goes on it will be harder and harder for a coach to bring us out of mediocrity.

1. It wasn't just his first year(s), though. In fact, IMO he's recruiting better now than when he first arrived. We pulled in a nice haul this year by nearly any measure, and next year's class is among the top in the nation...and we're in Golden's 5th year and 14 years after our last NC. Feb 2016 is still a long way away, granted, and who knows how many decommits we'll have between now and then... but the point remains that top kids are still willing to give UM a look. They'd be more likely to stick with their commits if we were winning. The same can't be said for the schools you're trying to compare us to (FAU, UCF, USF, etc).
2. Again, however you want to couch it, the point is that elite kids are still giving UM a look. Put it on Ice or whomever...there will always be guys like Ice and Beard on staff, guys with local ties who will reinforce the brand and connect with kids. That's the benefit of being UM...you have tons of former players and coaches with ties to area schools. That's not going to cease when Golden is fired; my guess is whoever's next will also want a staff littered with those kinda guys.
3. Can't deny we've missed on some elite guys. But how much of that has to do with Golden's incompetence, though? We rag on him for not even going after some of these top cats...you can't expect to bring them in if Golden doesn't go after them. Nor can you expect to recruit a bevy of 5-star kids if Golden can't win on the field. And yet he still gets a ton of high-3 and 4 star kids. Which, to me, means it has little to do with brand and more to do with Golden's lack of ability.
4. You're projecting out another 10 years of mediocrity...which means another 2 or 3 coaches down the line. Sure, after that it gets harder to rebound, no doubt. But we're not even close to that yet, so why assume the worst? We're in a position to rebound quickly once Golden is fired. It doesn't take a Harbaugh or Meyer or Saban to do it.

Disagree once again. I'm not saying Al Golden is a bad recruiter, actually I think to the contrary. I don't think it's Golden's ability to recruit that is hurting us but rather the state of our program (he's the worst of coach of all time and because of that we don't win) which is further diminishing our brand. He's Al the used car salesman and he's particularly good at bull****qing and selling the program. **** he even convinced most of us for a while that he was the savior. No doubt he's made foolish and amateurish mistakes like pulling Denver Kirkland's scholly or not offering studs in our backyard but for the most part he's on top of his ****. He is the first to offer a lot of under the radar guys (Kaaya, Rudolph) and if he was a good coach he would flourish in that area.

Take Amari Cooper, for example, who basically said he loves the U but doesn't want to come here because he likes winning more. My purpose of the article was to simply state that not only are many kids leaving us because we suck right now but also some are staying because they grew up loving the U and watching us dominate like Amari, but if mediocrity continues, we'll not only suck but they'll be no more recruits who grew up watching us 'dominate' and love the U (ex. Duke Johnson). Take this piece of evidence for example:

"Of the 140 Florida prospects awarded a four- or five-star grade from 247Sports’ composite ratings in the last three (2013-15) recruiting classes, only 15 signed on to play for the Hurricanes."

That's a pretty damning statistic.

You just said it all with your example of Amari Cooper, though. That has nothing to do with "brand." It has to do with product on the field. The two are different. It's like the "brand" of Nike versus the actual performance of Nike gear...the first is not necessarily related to the second.

The UM "brand" is strong. People still recognize the U around the world. ESPN loves us. We still get kids into the league. Kids want to come here to bring back the U mystique (see Kaaya and Duke and a whole bunch of others before them).

The only thing lacking is the on-the-field production. And that is on Golden (and Shannon before him). Win and guys like Cooper will come. For now we have to be happy with 3 and 4-star guys. That's still a far cry from 1-and 2-star guys that populate the rosters of FAU etc. It'll take a long time for us to sink to that level.

Again, I feel like you're reaaaaalllly looking at things in the most dire way possible. You're forecasting another 10-15 years of mediocrity and saying "what if?" The likelihood of that happening is quite low, IMO. But hey, if you want to be pessimistic about it, be my guest.