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Spring Game Review (Long)

WIN

Recruit
Joined
Dec 6, 2012
Messages
535
Obviously, not what I said or implied. The point is neither of these guys have any cache with the fanbase and most have moved on from them.

I didn't like the drop by Pope and Wiggins was a fumble called a drop where he took 2 steps after catching the ball and may have been down. Both are bad.

Ever playery earns snaps in game by what they do in practice. If they never drop another pass in a game then all is forgiven with me. If they do, then it's time to sit.
Every player on the team will drop a pass this year... book it.
 

TruCane81

Junior
Joined
May 9, 2019
Messages
2,338
So basically you are saying is you won’t care unless they drop one with the game on the line? So kind of like our bowl game where both guys dropped passes that could have been big plays.

They should not be the guys on the field with the game on the line. They both have value as experienced back ups that HAVE made plays in actual games.

They need their reps cut way back compared to last year for sure, but there is no gain in running them off. What if a couple guys get hurt? What if there are problems getting the freshman on the field come fall?

As long as they stay positive and compete, leave them be. No reason to get emotional over some depth guys. Neither started yesterday and that will continue if all goes well.
 

coffeecane

Portal Transfer
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
1,187
The thing is they both made several plays after their drop in the Spring game. The fans magnify every negative thing these two do because the fans have soured on them. They can never drop another pass in their Miami career for the fans to be happy. Even then they won't be satisfied.

I'm not makig excuses for them, but I'm not going to lose my mind until it happens when it really counts.
I think the pope drop was inexcusable and is who he is. Lack of focus and will drop the ones we need when they count. Wiggins drop may not have even been a drop. He cradled it in,took a couple steps then got ran hard to the ground and ball squirted out when he rolled on his back. His problem is getting manhandled on the line.
 

HighSeas

Sophomore
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
4,914
No mention of Johnson at WR. He was 5 catches for 58 yards. Big body WR with twitch. I was very impressed as he has a unique size that presents problems for the defense

No disagreement there. He looked like he belonged. I didn't mention him cause I don't have anything to add beyond that. I try not to post redundant stuff and there's a whole thread on him. I also need to see more of him to have a baseline to work with.
I re-watched the first half today and was pleasantly surprised by the play of Campbell. He played tackle (wish they would play him at guard) and held his own. Speaking of tackles I didn't see Williams. Is he hurt?

Yeah I agree. His length and range in pass protection was noticeable. I wasn't watching the 2nd team OL closely but he stood out a few times in an otherwise lackluster group. We know Zion is the starter so I just didn't feel like mentioning him to only say he looks like quality depth, but maybe I should have.
Nothing on Flagg? Also I disagree with having Wiggins stick around. Him and Pope need to go now. Everyone else at WR could stay.

Anyone who recognizes my username should know I'm a Flagg fan. I have nothing new to say about him good or bad. If he can eat snaps at MLB without being noticed much I consider that a win relative to last year. And that's kinda who Flagg is - a no-frills backer who gets the job done without being splashy or getting embarrassed.
I'm not sure the coaches are "missing" anything on Keyshawn Smith. He started the spring game with Rambo and Harley

Good point. Maybe I'm off with that comment, veering into the frustrated with coaches hot take-y territory that I try to avoid. My bad.
 

TheUBack

Taking a break
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Jan 4, 2017
Messages
1,215
Anything 25 yards or shorter TVD is deadly accurate. when it comes to pushing the ball down field his accuracy starts to dip. I think he can clean that up though, he has the Size and Arm strength to do it. TVD Is a legit P5 starter in my opinion, maybe not this year but definitely next
I mean maybe TVD is a legit Power 5 starter. But Garcia is a lot better. Like Bryant and Lawrence or Hurts and Tua, gotta play the better guy. You CANT be Kirby at UGA playing "legit P5 starter and NFL prospect" Fromm over Fields. Can't do it.
 

No_Fly_Zone

Not a scientist or engineer
Moderator
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Dec 28, 2016
Messages
5,843
They can never drop another pass in their Miami career for the fans to be happy. Even then they won't be satisfied.

No more drops from those two at Miami could only mean they aren't playing or have moved on from Miami. That's the only way those guys aren't dropping another pass.

So, yeah, I'd be fvcking happy. Ecstatic even.
 

caneaddict

Senior
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
5,276
I think the pope drop was inexcusable and is who he is. Lack of focus and will drop the ones we need when they count. Wiggins drop may not have even been a drop. He cradled it in,took a couple steps then got ran hard to the ground and ball squirted out when he rolled on his back. His problem is getting manhandled on the line.
agreed i think that is a catch on review with the knee down before the ball gets loose, his reaction didnt help,
 

mirasuegui

Recruit
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
814
Let's go position by position and break down what I saw from individual players in the Spring Game.

QB

I'll join the chorus who prefers Garcia to TVD at this point. The big trait differences are footwork/pocket movement and aggression. Garcia is comfortable climbing and sliding the pocket and does it even when he doesn't have to. It's just a natural part of his game. TVD is more statuesque and unnatural with his footwork. There were some throws he missed or failed to drive where he locked his front leg and armed the ball. Garcia has superior lower body mechanics and it's not close.

In terms of aggression we saw Garcia look to push the ball down the field, sometimes to a fault. It's easier to coach that out of a player than to teach them to look for the deep shot. I can see Garcia giving defenses fits with the tempo RPO game and then going for the deep ball kill shot when it's timed up. He's also experienced and proficient in Air Raid concepts. He threw a well-timed hole shot to Redding on his first drive which was my favorite moment of his. He's advanced for a guy who just got on campus. He was a beat late on a deep dig vs Cover 3 later on in the scrimmage but that's just an example to show he's not perfect, yet?

TVD is no slouch though because he has one thing over Garcia - processing speed and timing. His eyes were consistently in the right place and he gets the ball out instantly at the top of his drop. There were just too many off-target throws and touch throws where he needed to drive the ball. If he cleans up the accuracy issues he could be like Mac Jones with less confidence moving around the pocket and briefly extending plays. He may even have a stronger arm than Garcia but that tells you that arm talent =/= arm strength cause his arm talent is clearly inferior.

Speaking of arm talent, we know Matocha doesn't have what it takes in that department. I don't think the portal would be wise for him.

RB

Knighton ran well. His footwork and processing were on point. He just doesn't bring any power element and gets stopped easily on contact. That's not uncommon for his archetype of back and doesn't preclude him from having an NFL career. People thought Chase Edmonds would be the feature back for Arizona this year and he's the same way.

Harris didn't play much yet still had an awesome rep in pass pro, of course. His footwork still isn't on the level that Knighton showed, which is disappointing. He's a macro-mover who likes big jump cuts or longer diagonal cuts. This causes him to miss cutbacks and narrow creases. If he ran with micromovement like a Dalvin Cook or Alvin Kamara he'd be a big-time prospect and challenge Chaney for the feature job. I don't think Chaney should be worried as long as he can suit up.

WR

Rambo was ok. He caught everything and ran hard but his routerunning looked ordinary. He ran a speed out where he tipped off his route badly and those often end in pick 6es. He's still a clear starter imo.

Restrepo looks the part. The only issues with him is his small catch radius. He didn't adjust to an off-target TVD throw on a glance route at the goal line but then leaped to score the next one. He has to leave his feet to make most of his catches, which isn't ideal, but he turns into a ballcarrier quickly nonetheless. He should be a major factor.

Pope and Wiggins were their usual selves. Pope is way too soft, has permanent alligator arms and never attacks the ball at its highest point. He's supposed to be an athlete but never eludes anyone cause he runs so soft and tentative. If he enters the portal I'll be thrilled.

Wiggins can stick around though. Yes he still wilts on contact and has weak hands but he separates vertically and that's not nothing. I'd give him another chance to make some plays and see if he can turn it around. It's not unfathomable that he can run by guys in off-man or press-bail and actually catch the ball.

Keyshawn Smith is the dude who deserves the job. He's pretty explosive with his release and he might be the best technician on the team. His routes are precise, he's confident with his hands and he's efficient after the catch. I don't know what the coaches are missing.

The other guy I (still) like is Daz Worsham who's basically Keyshawn lite. He runs good routes and plays physical beyond his size and supposed athletic deficiencies. He reminds me of Riley Ridley. He should take over Pope's role as a versatile depth guy off the bench.

So based on what I saw here I'd go:

X - Rambo then Wiggins/Brinson. Redding in red zone, perhaps
Z - Smith then Payton? +Worsham+Harley mixing in to get Restrepo more snaps
Slot - Harley then Restrepo +Brashard

OL

Was good. Not much to say here. Gaynor played well but his lack of range was evident in the run game, and will always bother me. Zion and Scaife had issues with set points but that's more of a consistency thing than a talent problem. Traore was bad mentally and physically but who cares?

DL

Top-end talent and depth is a huge problem at DE. 13 had some good battles with Zion with his quickness and inside counter. Harvey has traits but goes long stretches of being invisible. They might be ok starters which makes the drop-off from them to the backups alarming. 33 and 22 are both high-cut, leggy and stiff - and guess what there's another like that coming in this summer! 22 has a motor but he doesn't have the edge speed or an inside move to make an impact. Oh yeah I almost forgot about 53 - I kinda wish I did. He plays hard and looks violent but he's robotic and has no idea what he's doing. If you put a gun to my head I'd choose him as the 3rd best DE on the team. It's really bad. Thomas Davis should play a lot if he can stay healthy.

Ford looks leaner and quicker and he's playing as more of a penetrator than just a stack the line nose. He looks poised for a career year and might get on the radar as an NFL guy.

LB

Maybe the most pleasant surprise for me was seeing Keontra at WILL. He looks like a bonafide set it and forget it starter. His processing, angles, and take-on skills were all beyond what I expected. Credit him and the staff for his development. He should be considered a favorite to lead the team in tackles.

Steed was up and down, as usual. One play he'll trigger and make the stop in the backfield then later on he'll get caught in the wash and give up a TD. He's fine depth.

TAC is slow with his reads and seems like more of a "see-it-attack-it" type still. He's athletic but Troutman has better movement and awareness in coverage so he might end up ahead of him on the depth chart. Of course Troutman is worse than a "see-it" type as a run defender because he routinely makes the wrong read and takes himself out of position.

I guess I'll lump Chase Smith in with this group. His size and athleticism easily jumps off the screen and should earn him some kind of role, particularly in the pass game.

DB

Ivey still sucks as a run defender.

Dunson has nice traits as a zone corner. He can be physical as a run defender and at the top of the route. Having length on the field with him and Chase could create opportunities for takeaways. The coaches can't put Dunson in press with catch technique because guys will run by him. He needs to get a jam in.

Hall looked a tick faster early on and made some nice tackles but then continued being a liability in coverage. The issue with him and Kinchens is a lack of burst when they break on the ball from flat-footed positions. Neither have any business lining up in man coverage. Restrepo beat Kinchens on a glance route for a TD where Kinchens squared him up with his strong agility but he just doesn't have the quickness to stay with WRs on route breaks. TVD threw it off-target so the next play they went back to the matchup and X toasted Kinchens to the sideline. So yeah idk how you tell me his athleticism isn't an issue but at least he didn't miss any tackles. He should be a deep safety only.

Avantae is a tank and a reckless striker. It remains to be seen if that's a good or a bad thing. He missed badly on one.

Carter should not be a starter at any position.

Scheme

Wasn't a focus for me. The offense was heavy on RPO glance routes and perimeter underneath stuff. I'd like to see more deep crossing routes but that's hard to do from wide alignments. Restrepo is good at the bending deep-in routes vs zone so maybe we'll see those a lot. A few vanilla concepts were showcased in the run game.

The defense mixed up coverages a lot and was more experimental. There were multiple plays with unsound alignments that got gashed, as per usual.

--

And now we wait for August, pretty much.
agree with your assessment of the defense half the time they are beaten before the play is ever run
 

FrancisSawyer

Senior
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
5,269
Let's go position by position and break down what I saw from individual players in the Spring Game.

QB

I'll join the chorus who prefers Garcia to TVD at this point. The big trait differences are footwork/pocket movement and aggression. Garcia is comfortable climbing and sliding the pocket and does it even when he doesn't have to. It's just a natural part of his game. TVD is more statuesque and unnatural with his footwork. There were some throws he missed or failed to drive where he locked his front leg and armed the ball. Garcia has superior lower body mechanics and it's not close.

In terms of aggression we saw Garcia look to push the ball down the field, sometimes to a fault. It's easier to coach that out of a player than to teach them to look for the deep shot. I can see Garcia giving defenses fits with the tempo RPO game and then going for the deep ball kill shot when it's timed up. He's also experienced and proficient in Air Raid concepts. He threw a well-timed hole shot to Redding on his first drive which was my favorite moment of his. He's advanced for a guy who just got on campus. He was a beat late on a deep dig vs Cover 3 later on in the scrimmage but that's just an example to show he's not perfect, yet?

TVD is no slouch though because he has one thing over Garcia - processing speed and timing. His eyes were consistently in the right place and he gets the ball out instantly at the top of his drop. There were just too many off-target throws and touch throws where he needed to drive the ball. If he cleans up the accuracy issues he could be like Mac Jones with less confidence moving around the pocket and briefly extending plays. He may even have a stronger arm than Garcia but that tells you that arm talent =/= arm strength cause his arm talent is clearly inferior.

Speaking of arm talent, we know Matocha doesn't have what it takes in that department. I don't think the portal would be wise for him.

RB

Knighton ran well. His footwork and processing were on point. He just doesn't bring any power element and gets stopped easily on contact. That's not uncommon for his archetype of back and doesn't preclude him from having an NFL career. People thought Chase Edmonds would be the feature back for Arizona this year and he's the same way.

Harris didn't play much yet still had an awesome rep in pass pro, of course. His footwork still isn't on the level that Knighton showed, which is disappointing. He's a macro-mover who likes big jump cuts or longer diagonal cuts. This causes him to miss cutbacks and narrow creases. If he ran with micromovement like a Dalvin Cook or Alvin Kamara he'd be a big-time prospect and challenge Chaney for the feature job. I don't think Chaney should be worried as long as he can suit up.

WR

Rambo was ok. He caught everything and ran hard but his routerunning looked ordinary. He ran a speed out where he tipped off his route badly and those often end in pick 6es. He's still a clear starter imo.

Restrepo looks the part. The only issues with him is his small catch radius. He didn't adjust to an off-target TVD throw on a glance route at the goal line but then leaped to score the next one. He has to leave his feet to make most of his catches, which isn't ideal, but he turns into a ballcarrier quickly nonetheless. He should be a major factor.

Pope and Wiggins were their usual selves. Pope is way too soft, has permanent alligator arms and never attacks the ball at its highest point. He's supposed to be an athlete but never eludes anyone cause he runs so soft and tentative. If he enters the portal I'll be thrilled.

Wiggins can stick around though. Yes he still wilts on contact and has weak hands but he separates vertically and that's not nothing. I'd give him another chance to make some plays and see if he can turn it around. It's not unfathomable that he can run by guys in off-man or press-bail and actually catch the ball.

Keyshawn Smith is the dude who deserves the job. He's pretty explosive with his release and he might be the best technician on the team. His routes are precise, he's confident with his hands and he's efficient after the catch. I don't know what the coaches are missing.

The other guy I (still) like is Daz Worsham who's basically Keyshawn lite. He runs good routes and plays physical beyond his size and supposed athletic deficiencies. He reminds me of Riley Ridley. He should take over Pope's role as a versatile depth guy off the bench.

So based on what I saw here I'd go:

X - Rambo then Wiggins/Brinson. Redding in red zone, perhaps
Z - Smith then Payton? +Worsham+Harley mixing in to get Restrepo more snaps
Slot - Harley then Restrepo +Brashard

OL

Was good. Not much to say here. Gaynor played well but his lack of range was evident in the run game, and will always bother me. Zion and Scaife had issues with set points but that's more of a consistency thing than a talent problem. Traore was bad mentally and physically but who cares?

DL

Top-end talent and depth is a huge problem at DE. 13 had some good battles with Zion with his quickness and inside counter. Harvey has traits but goes long stretches of being invisible. They might be ok starters which makes the drop-off from them to the backups alarming. 33 and 22 are both high-cut, leggy and stiff - and guess what there's another like that coming in this summer! 22 has a motor but he doesn't have the edge speed or an inside move to make an impact. Oh yeah I almost forgot about 53 - I kinda wish I did. He plays hard and looks violent but he's robotic and has no idea what he's doing. If you put a gun to my head I'd choose him as the 3rd best DE on the team. It's really bad. Thomas Davis should play a lot if he can stay healthy.

Ford looks leaner and quicker and he's playing as more of a penetrator than just a stack the line nose. He looks poised for a career year and might get on the radar as an NFL guy.

LB

Maybe the most pleasant surprise for me was seeing Keontra at WILL. He looks like a bonafide set it and forget it starter. His processing, angles, and take-on skills were all beyond what I expected. Credit him and the staff for his development. He should be considered a favorite to lead the team in tackles.

Steed was up and down, as usual. One play he'll trigger and make the stop in the backfield then later on he'll get caught in the wash and give up a TD. He's fine depth.

TAC is slow with his reads and seems like more of a "see-it-attack-it" type still. He's athletic but Troutman has better movement and awareness in coverage so he might end up ahead of him on the depth chart. Of course Troutman is worse than a "see-it" type as a run defender because he routinely makes the wrong read and takes himself out of position.

I guess I'll lump Chase Smith in with this group. His size and athleticism easily jumps off the screen and should earn him some kind of role, particularly in the pass game.

DB

Ivey still sucks as a run defender.

Dunson has nice traits as a zone corner. He can be physical as a run defender and at the top of the route. Having length on the field with him and Chase could create opportunities for takeaways. The coaches can't put Dunson in press with catch technique because guys will run by him. He needs to get a jam in.

Hall looked a tick faster early on and made some nice tackles but then continued being a liability in coverage. The issue with him and Kinchens is a lack of burst when they break on the ball from flat-footed positions. Neither have any business lining up in man coverage. Restrepo beat Kinchens on a glance route for a TD where Kinchens squared him up with his strong agility but he just doesn't have the quickness to stay with WRs on route breaks. TVD threw it off-target so the next play they went back to the matchup and X toasted Kinchens to the sideline. So yeah idk how you tell me his athleticism isn't an issue but at least he didn't miss any tackles. He should be a deep safety only.

Avantae is a tank and a reckless striker. It remains to be seen if that's a good or a bad thing. He missed badly on one.

Carter should not be a starter at any position.

Scheme

Wasn't a focus for me. The offense was heavy on RPO glance routes and perimeter underneath stuff. I'd like to see more deep crossing routes but that's hard to do from wide alignments. Restrepo is good at the bending deep-in routes vs zone so maybe we'll see those a lot. A few vanilla concepts were showcased in the run game.

The defense mixed up coverages a lot and was more experimental. There were multiple plays with unsound alignments that got gashed, as per usual.

--

And now we wait for August, pretty much.
That was maybe the most articulate and intelligent breakdown I have seen on the team. You have a talent my friend. I didn't pay as much attention to the defense this time and I am admittedly a bit disappointed by your evaluation of our DEs but in complete agreement. How many portal players can we take? 1 DE, 1 LB and 1 CB would be ideal it would seem.
 

HighSeas

Sophomore
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
4,914
That was maybe the most articulate and intelligent breakdown I have seen on the team. You have a talent my friend. I didn't pay as much attention to the defense this time and I am admittedly a bit disappointed by your evaluation of our DEs but in complete agreement. How many portal players can we take? 1 DE, 1 LB and 1 CB would be ideal it would seem.
I'm pessimistic on the group as a whole but it's not a lost cause. 13 has juice as an edge rusher, Harvey looks the part with his build and he has some twitch, and the Fr Davis is a freak even if he's undersized. There's a chance you get a competent edge rush out of those 3. 22 and 33 profile more as energy guys off the bench but don't expect them to win many 1on1s.

Besides you don't need stud edge rushers to have a great defense. If you're stout against the run and collapse the pocket as a collective unit you can have an elite defense. That was the model Clemson used last year. We'll see what Leonard Taylor can bring with his devastating outside move.
 

FrancisSawyer

Senior
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
5,269
I'm pessimistic on the group as a whole but it's not a lost cause. 13 has juice as an edge rusher, Harvey looks the part with his build and he has some twitch, and the Fr Davis is a freak even if he's undersized. There's a chance you get a competent edge rush out of those 3. 22 and 33 profile more as energy guys off the bench but don't expect them to win many 1on1s.

Besides you don't need stud edge rushers to have a great defense. If you're stout against the run and collapse the pocket as a collective unit you can have an elite defense. That was the model Clemson used last year. We'll see what Leonard Taylor can bring with his devastating outside move.
Good points there and I agree. It's a position where we lack a Phillips or Rousseau but we have plenty of good players who Simpson may be able to develop. The one thing that does shock me is your eval on Chanz Williams #33. Coming out of High School he was considered by some to be a Joe Jackson type but with better speed and quickness and potentially a 1st round NFL pick. The fact that he seems so pedestrian is shocking to me. I had much higher expectations for him.
 

HighSeas

Sophomore
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
4,914
Good points there and I agree. It's a position where we lack a Phillips or Rousseau but we have plenty of good players who Simpson may be able to develop. The one thing that does shock me is your eval on Chanz Williams #33. Coming out of High School he was considered by some to be a Joe Jackson type but with better speed and quickness and potentially a 1st round NFL pick. The fact that he seems so pedestrian is shocking to me. I had much higher expectations for him.

Snap quickness was always an issue for him. He does have great speed but it's build-up speed so it doesn't help his pass rush it just makes him good in pursuit.

I called him a development type when he was being recruited. He needs to learn how to use his hands because he's not winning with edge quickness. If he's on the field we should see a hefty dose of stunts because his length and speed to power can work as he builds momentum toward the interior.
 
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