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Son accepted into Undergrad Business School

mirvin88

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Nov 2, 2011
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12,643
I have my undergrad and MBA from the UM B-School.

Here's the reality. The degree is fine. It's not Harvard/Yale, but not many are. There are plenty of internship opportunities in Miami when your son would be in school, just due to the sheer size of the South Florida business community, and the fact that UM is the best school in the region. However (and I'm not sure how this will change post-Covid), you do not always get the largest number of recruiters to come down to Miami to recruit/interview candidates. Maybe, going forward, a lot of pre-screening/recruiting/interviewing may be moving to computer-based systems, and the geographic barriers may go away.

Anyhow, I was just having this conversation with a friend, and comparing UM to UF. While UF may have a marginally higher ranking for their Business School, and may have more alums out in the world, WHILE YOU ARE IN SCHOOL, you simply won't have as many spring-fall opportunities to work/intern if you live in Gainesville compared to Coral Gables. So you have to maximize your summer opportunities.

Let me give an example. When you look at large accounting firms (Top 10-15 in size), they need interns all year long, not just in the summer. I have seen Spring and Fall interns be given the chance to continue working beyond the original end-date of the internship, whereas "summer interns" usually have to be back in school at the end of summer (which was a bit of a challenge on the Tax side, as we had 9/15 and 10/15 filing deadlines, so we would have preferred to keep the summer interns a bit later into the year).

I will say this, I have seen a rise in businesses needing people with international-type experience. So if your son can speak another language and/or take a bunch of the international business courses at UM, it might help to get him more interviews if the recruitment is being done via computer submission on a national level.

If a company wants a Harvard grad, there's not much that can be done to change that. But if a company is looking for someone who has a particular skillset, then the Miami degree is not any sort of detriment. Good grades are important, highlight the relevant coursework, try to have some language and/or computer skills that stand out, and get involved in some activities that show interest and/or initiative. And learn social skills. The interview is the key.

One of the better porsts on this site
 

TheOriginalCane

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Dec 22, 2011
Messages
13,499
UM is the only school into which he’s been accepted that has an undergrad business school. The other schools are good but don’t have an undergrad business school; Furman, Oberlin, Lehigh. and he’s waitlisted at the other UM-Michigan. So I’m also trying to weigh the value of an undergrad business degree as opposed to a BA in Econ or Finance.


One thing that I will add, regarding the value of the undergrad business degree...

I cannot speak for every MBA program, but UM has a 2-track MBA program. If you do NOT have a business degree, and MBA will require 60 credits.

However, when I did my MBA at UM (having been an undergrad business major), I only needed to take 36 credits to get my MBA.

Just something to consider.
 

TheOriginalCane

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Dec 22, 2011
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He needs to get away for a few years. ATL has been great for us but he was born here, may live here when its all said and done but wants to live somewhere else for college. And apparently doesn’t care about my bank account.


Ha!

Tons of money available at UM. Student Government president gets full-tuition-remission. Editor-in-Chief of the Miami Hurricane newspaper. Ibis Yearbook Editor-in-Chief. I could list a number of other positions (grad school stuff as well) that give tuition money.

Resident Assistants in the residential colleges get free room and board, plus a stipend.

Lots of other "jobs" have tuition money attached. I was a graduate assistant when I was doing my MBA. I also had full-tuition for my 2nd and 3rd years of law school due to Moot Court/Law Review. One of my best friends in law school was unfamiliar with UM and asked me how to get more tuition money. I knew the undergrad Dean of Students, and I told him that the Honor Council had an opening for their "Advisor". He applied, and got the rest of his tuition paid for his 2nd and 3rd years at UM Law.

TONS of money available at UM, just have to figure out how to find it.
 

Angry Ibis

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Plus there are clearly multiple good connections throughout this thread to help him as a fellow Cane.....
 

AtlAtty

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Messages
1,606
Gonna break our hearts when you start posting that Dean Quelch isn’t zooming with your boy as much as the Dean from Oberlin....
Already happening. He received the letter from the Oberlin admissions person about how much he enjoyed his essay. Its a smart touch.
 

AtlAtty

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Messages
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Just an example of someone's bio. This is the CEO of Logitech, he will be presenting a lecture for UM's B-School Distinguished Lecturer Series.

"Bracken Darrell holds an M.B.A. degree from Harvard Business School and a B.A. degree in English from Hendrix College in Arkansas."

I would be willing to bet that almost nobody on this board could (without googling) tell us the first freaking thing about "Hendrix College".
Wow. As a lawyer I always tell people that the only school that matters is the last school you attend and even that is openly for the first job.
But it can really help with the first job.
 

TheOriginalCane

All American
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Dec 22, 2011
Messages
13,499
A lot of nonsense on here regarding Miami somehow being less valuable than an Ivy school. Firms might not target Miami like they do Dartmouth, but it doesn't mean you can't get the same jobs as Ivy grads get. It depends on your son. I went straight from undergrad business to a Wall Street job at one of the prestigious banks (and was recruited by several others) and ended up working with a bunch of Ivy or similar grads. I know people from Miami that went to Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Lehman when it was still a thing and all the Big 4 accounting firms. I was also the first person at Miami to interview for the GE Financial Management Program (for Commercial Finance) and know they've started to target Miami more since. I also knew a lot of people who did nothing with their business degree. The banks mostly recruit for operations jobs but you can get front office roles. If you do well in Accounting you should easily get a job at a Big 4 -- I think they take like 100 Miami grads every year collectively.

If you're studying Marketing, then you only have yourself to blame when you get a lousy job. Get a good internship, network, get friendly with the professors in your major and do your research. All the big banks and trust companies have offices in Miami. All the Big 4 have offices in Miami. Lots and lots of corporations have their LatAm headquarters in Miami. All of them need finance and accounting people.

Now, that's all to say that the University of Miami doesn't make your son a drug addict, because if he becomes one, you should definitely blame a non-profit institution for it, and not his own bad decisions.


I may not always agree with CMM, but he's spot on here. I've always told people that Miami is what you make of it.

If someone goes to Miami, and is a mopey motherfvcker who thinks that his "UM degree" isn't worth much, that person will become a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure. But I could give you a long list of UM grads who have used the UM degree as a starting point, and who have pushed the envelope and reached great heights. Sometimes, the people who go to "State School U B-School" are complacent and expect all the employers to come to them.

Finance and Accounting are the two "big" majors in UM's B-School. Tons of jobs. Lots of opportunity. Econ is a more academic pursuit. Marketing...I'm not going to touch that one. Management is good too, but more generalistic. Business Law is more of a prelude to law school, you can't do much with the undergrad degree on its own. The rest of the majors are narrower and more specific.

I'll mention one last thing. Even if UM is not a guaranteed-door-opener for the first-job-out-of-college at every single corporation in the country, the UM degree is a great talking point. I have met people from all over the country, and I can't tell you the number of times that "repping the U" turns into a discussion of sports, which then leads to a discussion of so many other topics. It's one HELL of a conversation-starter, I can assure you of that.

Places like Oberlin, Furman, and Lehigh, while they have beautiful campuses, are never going to spark lively conversation and debate as much as talking about THE U does.
 

Empirical Cane

We are what we repeatedly do.
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Already happening. He received the letter from the Oberlin admissions person about how much he enjoyed his essay. Its a smart touch.
Good luck on paying the extra student fees due to losing their lawsuit. I half joke/half don't.

Seriously, will the student body somehow be expected to partially fill the gap?

Maybe nothing, but perhaps consider.
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
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2
Thank you, sir. I love my alma mater. I can list the names of many UM B-School grads who have done big things. I can name 4 classmates from undergrad who are CEOs (one is a former roommate of mine), and a 5th guy that is an MBA alum (and many on this board know him, he is the CEO of a well-known fast-food company).

The first job is just the first step. After that, anyone with drive and determination can make the UM degree mean something in the workplace.
Now I’m curious about the CEO of the fast-food company, is there a reason you can’t say the name of the company? I did a quick search of the likely suspects but none of them graduated from UM.
 
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Cortez55403

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Sep 9, 2014
Messages
455
Actually, a very true and relevant point. These days, kids admitted to Harvard/Yale seem to fall heavily into one of two categories, either a "legacy" or a kid with insane qualifications who can get into every other school in the country anyhow. There are plenty of other kids outside of those two categories who merit consideration.

Factoid: About 55% of Harvard undergrads are on scholarship. In fact, 20% of the students are on total scholarship where their parents pay nothing.

No doubt, some certain % students are “legacy” admits whose families have a history of support for Harvard. Legacy does not = stupid, however. LOL. Children of Harvard alums are not likely to be dunces. Harvard legacy is not like Olivia Jade at USC faking her status as a crew coxswain to get into college as a Trojan.

(full confession: two people in my family went to Harvard. Hence the detailed data).
 

thebutcher

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Jul 24, 2012
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204
UM is the only school into which he’s been accepted that has an undergrad business school. The other schools are good but don’t have an undergrad business school; Furman, Oberlin, Lehigh. and he’s waitlisted at the other UM-Michigan. So I’m also trying to weigh the value of an undergrad business degree as opposed to a BA in Econ or Finance.
Just stating my opinion but Miami and Michigan are the two he should be between. Both have their merits. Maybe it’s just my network from the northeast, but I often hear regrets from people who went to a small school. I very rarely hear it from those who went to a larger school. Better to take the leap, go big, and decide it’s for you than to never take that leap at all. He could do a lot worse than Miami and Michigan
 

thebutcher

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Jul 24, 2012
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204
A lot of nonsense on here regarding Miami somehow being less valuable than an Ivy school. Firms might not target Miami like they do Dartmouth, but it doesn't mean you can't get the same jobs as Ivy grads get. It depends on your son. I went straight from undergrad business to a Wall Street job at one of the prestigious banks (and was recruited by several others) and ended up working with a bunch of Ivy or similar grads. I know people from Miami that went to Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Lehman when it was still a thing and all the Big 4 accounting firms. I was also the first person at Miami to interview for the GE Financial Management Program (for Commercial Finance) and know they've started to target Miami more since. I also knew a lot of people who did nothing with their business degree. The banks mostly recruit for operations jobs but you can get front office roles. If you do well in Accounting you should easily get a job at a Big 4 -- I think they take like 100 Miami grads every year collectively.

If you're studying Marketing, then you only have yourself to blame when you get a lousy job. Get a good internship, network, get friendly with the professors in your major and do your research. All the big banks and trust companies have offices in Miami. All the Big 4 have offices in Miami. Lots and lots of corporations have their LatAm headquarters in Miami. All of them need finance and accounting people.

Now, that's all to say that the University of Miami doesn't make your son a drug addict, because if he becomes one, you should definitely blame a non-profit institution for it, and not his own bad decisions.
This is the exception not the rule
 

Cortez55403

Redshirt Freshman
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Sep 9, 2014
Messages
455
Great post.

For the OP, I'll add a few things from various perspectives and experiences:

- I went to UM Business School undergrad (before leaving elsewhere and then returning for law school), but only because I got to go there on a scholarship. Multiple peers, who were also Finance/Marketing undergrad students, got opportunities in NYC (Morgan Stanley, etc.) and other internships. If your son is interested in that route, the UM business undergrad is unlikely to stop him from some of those opportunities.

- Depending on what your son wants to do with the business degree, it's also a sufficient for acceptance into all grad schools. Plenty of friends went IVY for grad school.

- The UM network is strong locally. As other posters have mentioned, internships are the real value. The network matters, but it's completely different than years ago. Skills matter more and companies look at interns from FIU and other schools, too.

- The far more interesting part, in my opinion, is the growing technology scene (and, yes, some of it is superficial still, but some is real) in Miami. Multiple big venture firms have moved to Miami or opened a decent-sized office here in the last year. After law school, I worked in Health Care for the better part of a decade, but have spent the last 5 years in the education technology industry and can attest the startup scene is starting to evolve from hype to [more] substance.

- If your son develops a useful skill set or has the right attitude, the UM business degree and the network it brings with it will be valuable to those of us looking for talented interns. I hired 18-20 last summer, for example. More than the school they attended, here are the skills my company sought: evidence of adaptability, willingness to learn, reliability, and polished communication skills; creativity and willingness to learn new platforms. I know those are general, but you can't imagine how many sophomore or junior kids have zero problem solving (social or emotional) skills and want an internship to "chill."

- My biggest suggestion is to prepare your son with guidance about a new workforce and different expectations than the old paradigm.
Excellent advice, Lu!
 
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UM is the only school into which he’s been accepted that has an undergrad business school. The other schools are good but don’t have an undergrad business school; Furman, Oberlin, Lehigh. and he’s waitlisted at the other UM-Michigan. So I’m also trying to weigh the value of an undergrad business degree as opposed to a BA in Econ or Finance.

Personally if they were my kid, I'd have them get a great liberal arts degree of some sort, study the classics, history, philosophy, sure, some econ... have them develop themselves as a well-rounded person of the world in college, and worry about a business specialization when it comes time for graduate school. Unless you want to raise your son to be a quant, business is done on the golf courses, at dinners, and in art galleries as much as in the boardroom anyway, and that's where being knowledgable and having things to bond over is invaluable.

College is really the last part of your life where you have the liberty to just LEARN, and I won't want to take that away from my kids. And kids change their majors and careers so often anyway... there is a better than 50% chance you will be pushing them down the wrong road.

Oberlin, Lehigh and Michigan are fantastic schools. Congrats to your son. I'd consider them very strongly.

Most importantly though, what does your kid want to do?
 
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hoops156

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Dec 4, 2011
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14,189
UM is the only school into which he’s been accepted that has an undergrad business school. The other schools are good but don’t have an undergrad business school; Furman, Oberlin, Lehigh. and he’s waitlisted at the other UM-Michigan. So I’m also trying to weigh the value of an undergrad business degree as opposed to a BA in Econ or Finance.

well, if he gets into the other UM for business, its a no brainer. ross business carries weight and does well in NYC (cousin and his wife both went there for ugrad business). Michigan places well in NYC finance
 

Ethnicsands

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Nov 2, 2011
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22,022
Congratulations! I am not in the field so won't answer, but I always wondered how much an undergrad business degree means if it's not from one of the Ivy League or similarly comparable spots. I think a lot of it boils down to finances and where he's comfortable. Nevertheless, enjoy the process and congrats again.
First, congrats to OP.

second, i think an undergrad business degree can mean a lot these days. It’s not about the brand on the degree - that matters either way. But it shows a focus and commitment to a career track, and often the personality traits that go along with that, and it means the person likely shows up with some basic knowledge that is useful. If anything, imo an undergrad business or engineering degree is more valuable when the degree granting institution isn’t that fancy. Maybe you take a shot on an Ivy kid without specific training, but if you’re picking from most places, you’re going to lean into kids who sre serious, hard wroking and decently knowledgable. An undergrad business degree doesn’t guarantee those qualities will be present, but it’s probably a positive indication. Meanwhile, an undergrad focus outside of a professional context doesn’t mean those qualities aren’t present, but it increases the risk. JMO.
 

LuCane

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UM is the only school into which he’s been accepted that has an undergrad business school. The other schools are good but don’t have an undergrad business school; Furman, Oberlin, Lehigh. and he’s waitlisted at the other UM-Michigan. So I’m also trying to weigh the value of an undergrad business degree as opposed to a BA in Econ or Finance.
As someone involved in talent development from K12 to HigherEd to Corporate, I promise you the type of degree (unless it's engineering and a couple others) will matter less in the coming years than it did when we were in school. He'll need to show evidence of a developing skill set, the ability to learn new things, and people (former employers) who'll attest to both. Whatever school/environment gets him closer to optimizing that portfolio, that's my suggestion. Again, it depends what type of role he'll seek out of undergrad, but more and more I see employers who openly state and seek self-directed learners, thinkers, and problem solvers.
 

Pentagon Cane

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Jan 16, 2012
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I may not always agree with CMM, but he's spot on here. I've always told people that Miami is what you make of it.

If someone goes to Miami, and is a mopey motherfvcker who thinks that his "UM degree" isn't worth much, that person will become a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure. But I could give you a long list of UM grads who have used the UM degree as a starting point, and who have pushed the envelope and reached great heights. Sometimes, the people who go to "State School U B-School" are complacent and expect all the employers to come to them.

Finance and Accounting are the two "big" majors in UM's B-School. Tons of jobs. Lots of opportunity. Econ is a more academic pursuit. Marketing...I'm not going to touch that one. Management is good too, but more generalistic. Business Law is more of a prelude to law school, you can't do much with the undergrad degree on its own. The rest of the majors are narrower and more specific.

I'll mention one last thing. Even if UM is not a guaranteed-door-opener for the first-job-out-of-college at every single corporation in the country, the UM degree is a great talking point. I have met people from all over the country, and I can't tell you the number of times that "repping the U" turns into a discussion of sports, which then leads to a discussion of so many other topics. It's one HELL of a conversation-starter, I can assure you of that.

Places like Oberlin, Furman, and Lehigh, while they have beautiful campuses, are never going to spark lively conversation and debate as much as talking about THE U does.
That is 100% a true statement. Even now whenever my son wears his UM gear it is conversation starter. Just a recognizable brand. He was snowboarding with his UM buddies this past December in Breckinridge and sporting a U jacket and folks were coming up to him everywhere he went. On a related topic, even Miami's engineering school is more than fine. My son's grades are terrific and he probably gets into any master's aero program in the country. He may go to CU if he gets a year in between pilot training to snowboard on the Air Force's dime...lol. I think the advantage he has at Miami is his upper level engineering classes have may 8 to 10 students. The good news is all the professors know him. The bad news he has had one or two professors he would rather watch the sprinkler system on Greentree operate than sit through another one of their classes.
 
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