Scheme against GT

edge

Junior
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
3,637
Coach D cannot be this stupid, can he? This is insulting as a fan.

1. Leave the center uncovered so he can take out our best defensive player on every down.

2. Play 2 deep and have the safeties back pedal on the snap.

3. Ask your defensive ends to collapse the pocket instead of contain the option.

4. Play 2 deep but ask your corners to stay engaged on the WR instead of letting them go to help the run and rely on the safeties to pick up the WR.

5. Nothing new here, but against a running team ask have your LB's line up 7 yards behind the line.

Paul Johnson must still be laughing at Coach D. Might have been the easiest game he has ever called as a coach.
 
Advertisement
I don't understand why you don't assign one guy to hit the QB every play and another to hit the pitch man every play?
 
Coach D cannot be this stupid, can he? This is insulting as a fan.

1. Leave the center uncovered so he can take out our best defensive player on every down.

2. Play 2 deep and have the safeties back pedal on the snap.

3. Ask your defensive ends to collapse the pocket instead of contain the option.

4. Play 2 deep but ask your corners to stay engaged on the WR instead of letting them go to help the run and rely on the safeties to pick up the WR.

5. Nothing new here, but against a running team ask have your LB's line up 7 yards behind the line.

Paul Johnson must still be laughing at Coach D. Might have been the easiest game he has ever called as a coach.

How I would imagine them responding (I'm not expert on this "defense" but this is my best shot)

1. The defensive tackles will engage the guard straight up and stack up the A gaps, leaving our linebacker "clean." The center will not be able to reach the linebacker because he will have to help with the DT. The clean linebacker is then free to either clean up the play or flow to the QB and pitch man. By two-gapping the A and B gaps with one person, they cannot run the dive if the DT plays the technique, clogs the hole, sheds the block and makes the tackle. Basically, a wall is created to shut down the dive.

2. In the triple option, the vertical passing game is prevalent. In order to cause a mistake and get off the field, we must not give up the big play. Also, depth from our safeties will keep them clean, allow them to read keys, identify and pursue to the alley and shut down the pitch man if the ball is pitched. They will also be able to be a last line of defense against dives and options we miss on.

3. We must make the quarterback pitch the ball early. Putting hard pressure on the QB will make him give the ball up, which will be strung out or picked up by our clean backers, pursuing safeties and corners that have beat their perimeter blocks.

4. Again, we cannot give up the deep pass and get out of the down and distance model. The corners must read their keys, beat their blocks and force the pitch man to the ground or back inside. We also have safety and backers making the plays laterally.

5. We lined our backers up deep to keep them out of the wash created by the 2-gapping d-line. They need to stay clean to fill the dive and perimeter option. This also allows them to read the flow of the O-line to fill mis-direction and get to the edge for pitch plays. The is key to stopping the pitch man and subsequently the third option.

This scheme is blatantly retarded and counter intuitive to everything it takes to stop this offense. I'm not on Lu's level from a X's and O's platform, but SO MUCH has to go right for this defense to work. It pretty much makes us win every one on one battle, maintain perfect gap integrity and make every tackle in space. It is saying they are going to make a mistake the more plays they are forced to run. Instead of creating a negative play, it's about creating stalemates and ties at the line. But guess what, it's really ******* HARD to shed blocks on the line of scrimmage while engaging with a lineman straight up. It's hard to shed a perimeter block with a ball carrier running full speed at you and it's really hard to have lineman and backs constantly rubbing and hitting you as a linebacker as you try to keep your gap integrity. **** ****es me off all over again. Like I said, I'm no expert, but that's how I see them trying to work this. I'm sure I'll get dissected by a much better brain, but that's my take. I hate this ****** mentality.
 
Advertisement
Man, its been 4 $$$$ING years and the players are still not able to grasp the system! This is a Veteran D with mostly JR's and SR's that looks like $$IT every week! I actually feel really bad for the kids!!!
 
Porter says a defensive player posted this on Instagram. No caption. He takes it as saying "let's go back to what worked."

BzPBYQ4CIAAvYI_.jpg


Lol or Wyche posted it cause he's in the pic.
 
Advertisement
Coach D cannot be this stupid, can he? This is insulting as a fan.

1. Leave the center uncovered so he can take out our best defensive player on every down.

2. Play 2 deep and have the safeties back pedal on the snap.

3. Ask your defensive ends to collapse the pocket instead of contain the option.

4. Play 2 deep but ask your corners to stay engaged on the WR instead of letting them go to help the run and rely on the safeties to pick up the WR.

5. Nothing new here, but against a running team ask have your LB's line up 7 yards behind the line.

Paul Johnson must still be laughing at Coach D. Might have been the easiest game he has ever called as a coach.

How I would imagine them responding (I'm not expert on this "defense" but this is my best shot)

1. The defensive tackles will engage the guard straight up and stack up the A gaps, leaving our linebacker "clean." The center will not be able to reach the linebacker because he will have to help with the DT. The clean linebacker is then free to either clean up the play or flow to the QB and pitch man. By two-gapping the A and B gaps with one person, they cannot run the dive if the DT plays the technique, clogs the hole, sheds the block and makes the tackle. Basically, a wall is created to shut down the dive.

2. In the triple option, the vertical passing game is prevalent. In order to cause a mistake and get off the field, we must not give up the big play. Also, depth from our safeties will keep them clean, allow them to read keys, identify and pursue to the alley and shut down the pitch man if the ball is pitched. They will also be able to be a last line of defense against dives and options we miss on.

3. We must make the quarterback pitch the ball early. Putting hard pressure on the QB will make him give the ball up, which will be strung out or picked up by our clean backers, pursuing safeties and corners that have beat their perimeter blocks.

4. Again, we cannot give up the deep pass and get out of the down and distance model. The corners must read their keys, beat their blocks and force the pitch man to the ground or back inside. We also have safety and backers making the plays laterally.

5. We lined our backers up deep to keep them out of the wash created by the 2-gapping d-line. They need to stay clean to fill the dive and perimeter option. This also allows them to read the flow of the O-line to fill mis-direction and get to the edge for pitch plays. The is key to stopping the pitch man and subsequently the third option.

This scheme is blatantly retarded and counter intuitive to everything it takes to stop this offense. I'm not on Lu's level from a X's and O's platform, but SO MUCH has to go right for this defense to work. It pretty much makes us win every one on one battle, maintain perfect gap integrity and make every tackle in space. It is saying they are going to make a mistake the more plays they are forced to run. Instead of creating a negative play, it's about creating stalemates and ties at the line. But guess what, it's really ****ING HARD to shed blocks on the line of scrimmage while engaging with a lineman straight up. It's hard to shed a perimeter block with a ball carrier running full speed at you and it's really hard to have lineman and backs constantly rubbing and hitting you as a linebacker as you try to keep your gap integrity. **** ****es me off all over again. Like I said, I'm no expert, but that's how I see them trying to work this. I'm sure I'll get dissected by a much better brain, but that's my take. I hate this ****ty mentality.

Dude you absolutely nailed it with the bold. This is EXACTLY what the scheme asks. I wrote a long winded write up abut it late last night but this is EXACTLY how they want to play it. And here's the proof:

http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/08/29/defending-the-option/

It's the Bob Diaco defense at ND defending the option. For those who don't know, Diaco coached under Groh, he actually came in the year after Golden left. They run this same ****** Parcell's 3-4. jmccomber friggen nailed it in his summary.

As a side note, i'm completely unsurprised that the most arrogant coaches in history (parcells/belichick), who thought their defense is some scientific masterpiece, would invent their own significantly more complicated (unnecessarily complicated i might add) way to defend the option, b/c they are too arrogant to use the "Redneck" JJ's method which destroyed it.
 
Forget all this crap and all your theories. Here's the story. I learned a lot today when some other posters in another thread started talking about the "Block down, step down" technique. This is how it's done. This blog is a coach who learned JJ's 4-3 directly from Tommy Tuberville, who was brilliant at implementing our old attacking defense, the same one Butch also used. You have to have 4 DLs and you have to employ this technique to block down and stop the fullback, converting the triple option to a double option. Then the DE takes the QB, forcing him to decide whether to pitch. Our problem is, with our 3-4, we were very vulnerable to the dive. Look at the video, and I think you'll see even Ga Tech and how that team, with a head coach who is an option mastermind, defenses somebody else who runs an option. Look at play after play where the DT's crush the middle and snuff out the fullback.

I try to be fair to a coach and give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm beginning to conclude that AG's days are numbered, and his defense just ain't gonna cut it. Please look at the video and see how all these other teams stop the triple option cold.

http://coachhoover.blogspot.com/2010/07/4-3-vs-flexbone-dt-play.html
 
Matador: clearly you aren't following a single thing jmccomber said, I said, nor that link.

jmccomber clearly, and accurately, discusses how the Groh system defends the dive play: they DTs on the guards as 2-gappers, and clean up with the MLB. I then confirmed his "theory" by linking to the Bob Diaco (who learned under al groh after golden left for temple) example, which describes exactly this. The Groh method is also taking away the dive, but in a different way from the Miami 4-3 that you and I are familiar with. Clearly it failed miserably, and has failed miserably the last two times they have attempted it.
 
Last edited:
It's been well established that this scheme sucks ***. Do we really need another thread about it?
 
Advertisement
The necessity to force the early pitch is never emphasized enough. During Oklahoma's awesome wishbone season of 1971, Jack Mildren executed the wishbone beautifully. He's the best ever at that position, superior to all the guys who came later at Oklahoma, or anyone that Texas or Alabama had.

Mildren would turn the corner and often pitch the ball 5+ yards downfield. It was stunning. I was a young kid but I was accustomed to Texas' plodding wishbone, which was fullback-based. The Sooners were suddenly blending power and speed. The halfbacks were Greg Pruitt and Joe Wylie, both burners.

The following year Mildren had graduated. The quarterback was a journeyman named Robertson, or something like that. The tackles were also new. From the outset of the season, even though Oklahoma was winning big, I could see the pitches were coming very early, sometimes immediately after the fullback exchange. Suddenly it wasn't nearly as dangerous. Unless the fullback was allowed to ramble, the better teams were slowing Oklahoma. Sure enough, they lost a game at Colorado late in the season in which the pitch was all but eliminated and the offense stalled.

Then the next year Steve Davis arrived as sophomore. He was so clever. I remember Switzer saying that establishing the pitch on the perimeter was the top priority. It played out that way. Oklahoma was unblemished other than the famous 7-7 tie at USC in '73, went unbeaten for the national title in '74, and repeated as champion again in '75 despite a stunning upset loss to Kansas and Nolan Cromwell, also running the triple option.

Admittedly I'm a bit annoyed at current triple option conversation because the teams that use the offense these days are so limited. Seriously, when the personnel you are dealing with are at Georgia Tech, Navy, Air Force, Wofford and recently Georgia Southern, who cares? People think they are seeing the triple option. They are not. It's like watching the current Canes and trying to pretend they are the same caliber players as our glory years. Yeah, some things look similar but if the real thing arrived you would dump this fraud version in 5 seconds and never think about them again.
 
For a "Canes fan" who has recently been downplaying Jimmy Johnson, you sure know a lot about OU history......kind of suspect if you ask me
 
With the exception of the uncovered Center, Miami played a similar alignment as Saturday night, in 2010. The difference was most of the assignments...Randy had the MLB (McCarthy) play QB to Pitch, and fold back late on the dive...had the OLBs (Spence & Buchanon) play the dive, pitch & sweep against certain alignments...and from the looks of it, He had the Ss play the pitch. Anyways, heres that game:

[video=youtube;erVpuO3riHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erVpuO3riHY[/video]
 
Advertisement
With the exception of the uncovered Center, Miami played a similar alignment as Saturday night, in 2010. The difference was most of the assignments...Randy had the MLB (McCarthy) play QB to Pitch, and fold back late on the dive...had the OLBs (Spence & Buchanon) play the dive, pitch & sweep against certain alignments...and from the looks of it, He had the Ss play the pitch. Anyways, heres that game:

[video=youtube;erVpuO3riHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erVpuO3riHY[/video]

Yeah I watched this whole game again tonight and I must say that the difference was that Randy had a DT take the center away which clogged up the middle. Also, the LB's played downhill and had multiple TFLs which took GT into a 2nd and long or 3rd and long situation. Finally, we hit the qb, fb, and pitch man on EVERY single play. That was the difference. With all of the negative plays and stuffing the dive man, we handily beat GT in 2009 and 2010.
 
Yeah I watched this whole game again tonight and I must say that the difference was that Randy had a DT take the center away which clogged up the middle. Also, the LB's played downhill and had multiple TFLs which took GT into a 2nd and long or 3rd and long situation. Finally, we hit the qb, fb, and pitch man on EVERY single play. That was the difference. With all of the negative plays and stuffing the dive man, we handily beat GT in 2009 and 2010.

What was unique to me from that game, were the OLBs taking the dive. Which when you think of it, makes sense, because the FB never seems em' coming, and even if they do, it's practically impossible for em' to make a cut.
 
GT still ran for 309 yards in the 2010.

Difference was IMO Spence was very instinctual forced some TFL's.

Also GT turned it over.

Shannon defense gave up 476 yards rushing to GT in 2008.

It's a tough offense to defend, but I would line up a NT right over the center and try to whip his tail all game long if it was me.
 
bill young was DC in 2008. He was installing his zone blitz and it's really hard to just switch philosophies for one game a year.

Gotta watch that game again, but OLBs taking the dive seems unusual outside of some planned stunts.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top