Saban helped make sure Jalen Hurts didn't transfer to Miami

[Memnon]

Its not a straw man. You just won't answer the question. The conventional wisdom is a good QB can elevate a team. I would like to know how many more points you think Hurts is worth over Williams in Enos's offense? Thats it. A simple question.

The question is tangential to the overall point. A good QB can elevate a team, but a good QB cannot overcome ineptitude from the HC & God awful play calling.

How many points? Shìt probably a lot more Idk, how TF would anyone know if you take a QB with his skill set & have him a run an offense that neutralizes his strengths? You think we're putting up points left & right with Hurts taking snaps under center behind our porous OL with deep 7-step drops?

Hurts is obviously better than Jarren, no one disputes that, but if you think Hurts in Enox's offense would've had us playing in Charlotte I disagree. I think you could've put Joe Burrow in Enox's offense & he wouldn't have been as good as he was with Joe Brady.

You're arguing that Enox's offense didn't matter & it was all on the QB, I'm arguing that Enox's offense was the Crux of the issue & even the best QB's would've struggled playing well in it. Other than that, I'm not sure what the point even is lol.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Not trying to be an *******, but that's a hard question to answer. Maybe we win 10 games....maybe not. Either way, I'm glad we got King and hope we can get thing turned around.

Its not a hard question. You have eyeballs. You have seen Williams play and Hurts play. In your opinion how many points difference between the two?

For example- if someone asks me, if Joe Montana is Miami's QB over Marino, how many titles do the Fins win? Ive watched both QBs play. I can say I don't think it changes anything. Marino was a better passer who made the Fins much better than the talent level. Without a defense and run game, Montanas mobility isn't a difference maker.

In my opinion Hurts is worth 10 points more per game (there is actually a stat called points responsible for per game, which King was #1 in 2018).

 

[Scrape into the C Gap]

Everyone keeps avoiding the very very simple question. How many points is Hurts worth over Williams?

There is a lot of hemming and hawing (oh but Enos calls plays, bad OL, blah blah), but no one will tell me the number.

This doesn’t make sense. So you’re saying Hurts is say, 10 points better than Williams so just add 10 more points to every final score? It doesn’t work that way because of everything that everyone on this board is saying. Poor coaching, historically poor talent on the O Line, poor schemes, underachieving receivers, a lack of competition at the QB position, will all amount to the disaster that was last year. I think you’re having a different argument. Would we have been better with Hurts than with Williams? Most likely, yes. But does that mean he would have been better off at the U last year than at Oklahoma? No sane person would take up that argument.

 

[skyman]

Enos would of been yelling at him like "No, dont run the ball, stay in the pocket! The plays are there!" ******* bro style bs..

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

This doesn’t make sense. So you’re saying Hurts is say, 10 points better than Williams so just add 10 more points to every final score? It doesn’t work that way because of everything that everyone on this board is saying. Poor coaching, historically poor talent on the O Line, poor schemes, underachieving receivers, a lack of competition at the QB position, will all amount to the disaster that was last year. I think you’re having a different argument. Would we have been better with Hurts than with Williams? Most likely, yes. But does that mean he would have been better off at the U last year than at Oklahoma? No sane person would take up that argument.

Its called points responsible for per game. It's a real stat. I'm asking the difference between the two QBs. And it does work that way because you have to take into account the play calling, line, coaching etc in your personal judgment. If you have that number its reasonable to add that to the score and get a rough idea of what the final score would have been, unless you think that the defense for some reason would have been worse.

Skyman makes a plausible argument- that Enos would have demanded Hurts stay in the pocket. I happen to disagree completely.

You ever been in an argument with someone where you are asking them to answer either yes or no, but they refuse to answer and keep avoiding the question with responses like "well it's not that simple " or its complicated "? 99% of the time they are intentionally bullsh!tting because they know the answer will prove your point.

You know the answer is that Hurts is probably worth at least 10 more points per game. That means those many of those close losses are likely wins (I still included some Ls because there will be bad bounces). That gets Miami to at least 10 wins and the ACC championship game. Yes, even with Enos calling the plays- and believe me- I'm not an Enos fan.

Lets switch QBs- if 2019 Miami with Jalen Hurts played 2019 Oklahoma with Jarren Williams, what do you think the score is?

 

[Scrape into the C Gap]

Its called points responsible for per game. It's a real stat. I'm asking the difference between the two QBs. And it does work that way because you have to take into account the play calling, line, coaching etc in your personal judgment. If you have that number its reasonable to add that to the score and get a rough idea of what the final score would have been, unless you think that the defense for some reason would have been worse.

Skyman makes a plausible argument- that Enos would have demanded Hurts stay in the pocket. I happen to disagree completely.

You ever been in an argument with someone where you are asking them to answer either yes or no, but they refuse to answer and keep avoiding the question with responses like "well it's not that simple " or its complicated "? 99% of the time they are intentionally bullsh!tting because they know the answer will prove your point.

You know the answer is that Hurts is probably worth at least 10 more points per game. That means those many of those close losses are likely wins (I still included some Ls because there will be bad bounces). That gets Miami to at least 10 wins and the ACC championship game. Yes, even with Enos calling the plays- and believe me- I'm not an Enos fan.

I’m not bull****ting you. I’m not sure what you’re arguing. You're using a stat to say that with Hurts, Miami would’ve gone 11-3 last year as opposed to 6-7. Ok, maybe, but maybe not. You’re speaking in absolute terms, as if this stat is a magic potion that works no matter what. But that’s not even what I’m claiming. He still went to a better situation at Oklahoma than what we had last year. You keep mentioning eyeballs, and I watched how bad last year’s team was. It was a program wide failure. Hurts would have improved the team, but he had so many more weapons at Oklahoma. Hurts would’ve hurt himself coming here even if it helped the program win a few more games. You’re using a stat to distort a bigger picture and using it in a way that doesn’t fall in line with the way football teams actually function or work towards winning actual games.

 

[k9cane]

Uhhh, he was right...

Lincoln Riley is 100,000x the better coach & had a far far better offensive system that fit his skill set.

He threw for 3,851yds 32TD's 8INT's at 69.7% completion & ran for 1,298yds & 20TD's.

Had he came to Miami he wouldn't have put up anywhere near those numbers, nor would he have gotten drafted in the 2nd round.

I hate Saban too, but he helped make Hurts make the right decision, no question about it.

He plays at UM and he's probably undrafted and practicing dig routes and comebacks as a WR

 

[Mackmiller974]

He was right and doing what's best for a player that won him a national championship. I can't blame him for that. Now if it was a star tight end then we could be mad lol.

 

[Mackmiller974]

If Hurts starts against UF, do you think Miami still loses that game? We lost 24-20 with a first time starting QB that didn't know the offense. It's funny, all you negative nancies know I'm right, but it just makes you feel better to hate on the team.

With Jalen Hurts

UF- win
UNC- win
BCU- win
CMU- win
VT- loss
UVA- win
GT- win
Pitt- win
FSU- win
Louisville- win
FIU- win
Duke- loss
ACC Championship- loss
Bowl game- win

That's 11-3. I'm not wrong.

We go 8-4 instead of 6-6

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

We go 8-4 instead of 6-6

What games are losses?

 

[HurricaneHauk]

Its called points responsible for per game. It's a real stat. I'm asking the difference between the two QBs. And it does work that way because you have to take into account the play calling, line, coaching etc in your personal judgment. If you have that number its reasonable to add that to the score and get a rough idea of what the final score would have been, unless you think that the defense for some reason would have been worse.

Skyman makes a plausible argument- that Enos would have demanded Hurts stay in the pocket. I happen to disagree completely.

You ever been in an argument with someone where you are asking them to answer either yes or no, but they refuse to answer and keep avoiding the question with responses like "well it's not that simple " or its complicated "? 99% of the time they are intentionally bullsh!tting because they know the answer will prove your point.

You know the answer is that Hurts is probably worth at least 10 more points per game. That means those many of those close losses are likely wins (I still included some Ls because there will be bad bounces). That gets Miami to at least 10 wins and the ACC championship game. Yes, even with Enos calling the plays- and believe me- I'm not an Enos fan.

Lets switch QBs- if 2019 Miami with Jalen Hurts played 2019 Oklahoma with Jarren Williams, what do you think the score is?

Why would Hurts put more points up than Jarren?

Maybe he would put less, can you prove he wouldn't?

Maybe Jarren puts up better numbers at Oklahoma than Hurts with a much better OC and players

 

[moshated305]

Saban knew Enos wasn't ****.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

I’m not bull****ting you. I’m not sure what you’re arguing. You're using a stat to say that with Hurts, Miami would’ve gone 11-3 last year as opposed to 6-7. Ok, maybe, but maybe not. You’re speaking in absolute terms, as if this stat is a magic potion that works no matter what. But that’s not even what I’m claiming. He still went to a better situation at Oklahoma than what we had last year. You keep mentioning eyeballs, and I watched how bad last year’s team was. It was a program wide failure. Hurts would have improved the team, but he had so many more weapons at Oklahoma. Hurts would’ve hurt himself coming here even if it helped the program win a few more games. You’re using a stat to distort a bigger picture and using it in a way that doesn’t fall in line with the way football teams actually function or work towards winning actual games.

Hurts def gets drafted higher at Oklahoma, even if Miami and Oklahoma have the same overall record. I dont argue that. QBs put up stats in their system. Saban is right on that point.

However, the argument about overall talent is closer than I think lots of haters want to admit (I think this team wins 10+ with King) Both teams blue chip ratio is above 50. Miami at 51, Oklahoma at 60.

Miami had a decent defense #26 in ppg. Oklahoma had a bad defense- #67 in ppg

Miami had a putrid offense #99 in ppg
Oklahoma had an electric offense- #7 in ppg.

So let's play out the season but we swap QBs. We are talking about the impact of a QB on the game. Even with Enos calling plays, I think Miami is ranked in the 40s in ppg if Hurts is QB (throwing to JT4? Yes, that works ) Given Williams work ethic, I think Oklahoma drops to the 20s or 30s with JW. I don't see the QBs having an impact on defensive numbers for the season.

Head to head, whats the score if they play? I don't think Miami's defense has any problem confusing Williams (#4 in sacks). Oklahoma will get through the line, but Hurts is a playmaker and can help himself by avoiding the rush. K State knocked them off, ranked #63 in ppg.

You seem not to think Williams played a major part in the 6-7 record. I think its pretty clear he was not even remotely close to a P5 quality starting QB. How do I know that? He was a top 10 QB out of HS. If Enos and the OL were the problems, why didn't a single P5 program offer him as a transfer?

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Uhhh, he was right...

Lincoln Riley is 100,000x the better coach & had a far far better offensive system that fit his skill set.

He threw for 3,851yds 32TD's 8INT's at 69.7% completion & ran for 1,298yds & 20TD's.

Had he came to Miami he wouldn't have put up anywhere near those numbers, nor would he have gotten drafted in the 2nd round.

I hate Saban too, but he helped make Hurts make the right decision, no question about it.

When Hurts was in the portal and Miami hired Enos, pretty sure the buzz around here was the excitement that Hurts might follow Enos to Miami. I don't recall you saying at the time that Hurts made the correct choice when he decided to transfer to Oklahoma. Of course, it's really easy to be Nostradamus after a 6-7 season and the OC gets fired.

Most fans- and Im pretty sure you were one of them- thought Enos was going to have a big impact on the offense, given that Hurts's stats improved significantly under Enos at Bama. Or did I miss your post at the beginning of the 2019 season where you said Enos was a bad OC and Miami would struggle on offense? I just searched and didn't find it. If you called it at the time, then I tip my cap to you.

You might also be forgetting that we were just 1 year removed from being #2 in the country. When we heard rumors that Hurt might transfer to Miami, the consensus was that with Hurts at QB, Miamis floor was 10 wins.

Now, however, it seems that you knew from before the 2019 season that Riley was "100,000x" better OC than Enos but kept that knowledge to yourself. Next time you see the future, I recommend posting before the event happens, not afterwards. Otherwise it just kinda looks like you are being a Monday Morning QB.

Regarding your contention that Hurts could never put up numbers in Miami like he did at Oklahoma...

2017 Rosier
3120 yards passing
468 yards rushing
26 pass TDs
5 TDs rushing
54% passing

2019 Hurts
3851 yards passing
1298 yards rushing
32 pass TDs
20 rush TDs
69.7% passing

Rosier wasn't even qualified to be a P5 QB (Miami was his only P5 offer). If Rosier- who would have been a marginal G5 QB- could put up those numbers in Richts terrible system, surely Hurts would have put up far, far better numbers than Rosier, which gets him pretty close to his 2019 Oklahoma stats.

 

[HurricaneHauk]

When Hurts was in the portal and Miami hired Enos, pretty sure the buzz around here was the excitement that Hurts might follow Enos to Miami. I don't recall you saying at the time that Hurts made the correct choice when he decided to transfer to Oklahoma. Of course, it's really easy to be Nostradamus after a 6-7 season and the OC gets fired.

Most fans- and Im pretty sure you were one of them- thought Enos was going to have a big impact on the offense, given that Hurts's stats improved significantly under Enos at Bama. Or did I miss your post at the beginning of the 2019 season where you said Enos was a bad OC and Miami would struggle on offense? I just searched and didn't find it. If you called it at the time, then I tip my cap to you.

You might also be forgetting that we were just 1 year removed from being #2 in the country. When we heard rumors that Hurt might transfer to Miami, the consensus was that with Hurts at QB, Miamis floor was 10 wins.

Now, however, it seems that you knew from before the 2019 season that Riley was "100,000x" better OC than Enos but kept that knowledge to yourself. Next time you see the future, I recommend posting before the event happens, not afterwards. Otherwise it just kinda looks like you are being a Monday Morning QB.

Regarding your contention that Hurts could never put up numbers in Miami like he did at Oklahoma...

2017 Rosier
3120 yards passing
468 yards rushing
26 pass TDs
5 TDs rushing
54% passing

2019 Hurts
3851 yards passing
1298 yards rushing
32 pass TDs
20 rush TDs
69.7% passing

Rosier wasn't even qualified to be a P5 QB (Miami was his only P5 offer). If Rosier- who would have been a marginal G5 QB- could put up those numbers in Richts terrible system, surely Hurts would have put up far, far better numbers than Rosier, which gets him pretty close to his 2019 Oklahoma stats.

Richt's system which utilized some running aspects of the QB and would have benefitted Hurts more than the crap Enos ran last year

You still haven't answered why you think Hurts would have put up better numbers numbers than Jarren here going to a completely different offense than he was at Bama

 

[Go Canes!!]

That's a straw man, not one single person has argued that Jarren was equal or better than Hurts & you know that.

You can't leave play calling out because it's literally the most quintessential aspect of scoring the ball, you can't act like all things being equal that Enox's offense would've been as potent as a Lincoln Riley's so how on Earth can you move that huge elephant from the discussion?

Oklahoma has better players & had a significantly better offensive system than we had last year, so, it's without question that Hurts wouldn't have been able to duplicate the same season he had at Oklahoma as if he was in Miami because he wouldn't have had the weapons or the offense to do so.

Would he have been better than Jarren, obviously, that goes without saying, but to act as if Hurts in Enox's Pro style bro Central Michigan offense would've been as good as he was with Riley in Oklahoma is ridiculous lol.

We probably wouldn't have went 6-7, but even with Hurts we're not winning more than 8 games while running Enox's offense.

Agree with ll of this except the last sentence. He easily finishes multiple drives against GT, doesn't throw five picks against VT, get shut out against La Tech and definitely doesn't come in asleep at the wheel after a night out partying against FIU.

He wouldn't have put up Oklahoma numbers but he gets us to 10 wins.

 

[JD08]

If Hurts came here and we won 2-3 more games we might still have Enos.

Everything worked out.

 

[troyskiles]

Its not a straw man. You just won't answer the question. The conventional wisdom is a good QB can elevate a team. I would like to know how many more points you think Hurts is worth over Williams in Enos's offense? Thats it. A simple question.

I will answer it. No one knows! No one knows!!!!! It is all hypothetical.

 

[Page305]

Oh y'all better not feel a way about this because I remember most of y'all didn't even want Hurts on the team. I know I did and I got flack for it.

 

[Page305]

If Hurts came here and we won 2-3 more games we might still have Enos.

Everything worked out.

You know what, that's true.