Ryan Day Comments on NIL

[Cryptical Envelopment]

I disagree about the kids being the actual product. The college is what people support. And if the best players started playing for a minor league nfl team, I bet college football would still survive with the best of the rest. People want to support their Alma mater.

That being said, I agree with everything else you said.

Uh, see what happens when the "college" can't get any of the top 500 players, goes 1-11, and drops down to FCS. Let me know what attendance, TV revenue, and donations look like then.

 

[DamnLiesAndStatistics]

Uh, see what happens when the "college" can't get any of the top 500 players, goes 1-11, and drops down to FCS. Let me know what attendance, TV revenue, and donations look like then.

It's all relative though. If the top 300 (or 500) high school players go to a minor league, colleges are still splitting the best of the rest. And you'll still have like 70-80% of the current audience supporting and watching their college teams. Youll lose some fans as the talent level goes down, but it would go down for all colleges, and as long as the product is still competitive, people will still watch

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

It's all relative though. If the top 300 (or 500) high school players go to a minor league, colleges are still splitting the best of the rest. And you'll still have like 70-80% of the current audience supporting and watching their college teams. Youll lose some fans as the talent level goes down, but it would go down for all colleges, and as long as the product is still competitive, people will still watch

But lets say the top 500 kids do leave... and now very few college kids are making the NFL, making exciting plays, executing... enjoy watching Tulane vs ECU cause that's what you got now. 2000 people in the stands and and nearly no TV interest.

But your moving the goalposts anyway, no? I never said anything about the minor leagues. So the top 500 guys go pro, what about the next 500 that are playing on the field and generating billions of dollars (I think it drops precipitously personally) for the school? They shouldn't get a cut for their performance? You think you can trot out two fraternities to play a souped up version of intramural football at Hard Rock or Doak and anyone is going to show up or watch? Nah.

 

[GojiraCane]

Uh, see what happens when the "college" can't get any of the top 500 players, goes 1-11, and drops down to FCS. Let me know what attendance, TV revenue, and donations look like then.

That’s more likely what will happen. Colleges beginning to drop the sport because they cannot financially compete, or at best relegating to an FCS level. A generation from now CFB might be down to 30-40 teams.

 

[DamnLiesAndStatistics]

But lets say the top 500 kids do leave... and now very few college kids are making the NFL, making exciting plays, executing... enjoy watching Tulane vs ECU cause that's what you got now. 2000 people in the stands and and nearly no TV interest.

But your moving the goalposts anyway, no? I never said anything about the minor leagues. So the top 500 guys go pro, what about the next 500 that are playing on the field and generating billions of dollars (I think it drops precipitously personally) for the school? They shouldn't get a cut for their performance? You think you can trot out two fraternities to play a souped up version of intramural football at Hard Rock or Doak and anyone is going to show up or watch? Nah.

I said I agreed with everything else, players should get paid. No goalposts moving.

My only point is that the kids are not the product

 

[Rickd]

I'm not so sure it's a reallocation of the billions of dollars made by the schools and the NCAA. After all, it's not like the schools or NCAA are actually footing the bill on this, right? By example, I don't think Ruiz has made a dollar off the unpaid labor of college athletes, but he's sure as **** stroking checks for them right now.

The NCAA and schools may be crying that they are losing control, but they STILL aren't paying their fair share. As far as I'm concerned, that's the real hidden story here.

The State of California is apparently attempting to change that. There is reportedly a bill being presented to the State Legislature that would, if passed, require universities in the State of California to split their "sports revenue" with the athletes potentially as high as 50/50. I would expect them to at least modify the term "sports revenue" to mean profit from sports after adding program expenses. TV revenue would obviously be a huge consideration.

 

[Rickd]

What is Ohio State’s coaching budget? Ryan Day’s annual compensation was recently adjusted up to $9.5M. I assume his staff collectively earns close to or over the $3.5M needed to equal the $13M in NIL money he’s referring to.

Yet some think ‘NIL is a disaster”.

NIL is, at this moment, very poorly structured since there is no fixed set of controls, rules, or regulations on a national level. Each state has distinct regulations regarding whether the schools and coaches can be involved with a player and his NIL opportunities. State of Florida it is a clear no while in some states the university and coaching staff can be involved with NIL collectives / groups and can direct a player to them. Pretty sure when the term and concept of Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) was put to paper nobody envisioned that a player would sign a contract with the U of Tennessee to receive $8 million dollars on his 3rd anniversary date of being with the program (I read in one commentary that was his deal). That seems to clearly be "play for pay" and has nothing to do with Name, Image, Likeness. People were complaining that the schools were getting "rich" from selling jerseys with players names on them, etc., while the player received nothing. It seemed like the goal was to address that level of financial opportunity ... doubt that anyone envisioned $4-8 million dollar "contracts" being signed.

 

[Rickd]

That’s more likely what will happen. Colleges beginning to drop the sport because they cannot financially compete, or at best relegating to an FCS level. A generation from now CFB might be down to 30-40 teams.

The SEC super conference. Top 30 programs with UM and UF in the State of Florida.

 

[GojiraCane]

The SEC super conference. Top 30 programs with UM and UF in the State of Florida.

National College Football League after the rebrand.

Or replace National with International if they have European aspirations.

 

[GojiraCane]

NIL is, at this moment, very poorly structured since there is no fixed set of controls, rules, or regulations on a national level. Each state has distinct regulations regarding whether the schools and coaches can be involved with a player and his NIL opportunities. State of Florida it is a clear no while in some states the university and coaching staff can be involved with NIL collectives / groups and can direct a player to them. Pretty sure when the term and concept of Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) was put to paper nobody envisioned that a player would sign a contract with the U of Tennessee to receive $8 million dollars on his 3rd anniversary date of being with the program (I read in one commentary that was his deal). That seems to clearly be "play for pay" and has nothing to do with Name, Image, Likeness. People were complaining that the schools were getting "rich" from selling jerseys with players names on them, etc., while the player received nothing. It seemed like the goal was to address that level of financial opportunity ... doubt that anyone envisioned $4-8 million dollar "contracts" being signed.

Here's a question.

He has to be on the roster for Year 3 to receive the $8M? Let's say he doesn't perform to expectations. He's okay, but not transcendent like a Vince Young. Most schools are on year to year scholarship renewals. Could the boosters lean on Tennessee to not renew his scholarship after Year 2, thereby voiding the obligation to pay him?

 

[TemplarCane]

NIL is, at this moment, very poorly structured since there is no fixed set of controls, rules, or regulations on a national level. Each state has distinct regulations regarding whether the schools and coaches can be involved with a player and his NIL opportunities. State of Florida it is a clear no while in some states the university and coaching staff can be involved with NIL collectives / groups and can direct a player to them. Pretty sure when the term and concept of Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) was put to paper nobody envisioned that a player would sign a contract with the U of Tennessee to receive $8 million dollars on his 3rd anniversary date of being with the program (I read in one commentary that was his deal). That seems to clearly be "play for pay" and has nothing to do with Name, Image, Likeness. People were complaining that the schools were getting "rich" from selling jerseys with players names on them, etc., while the player received nothing. It seemed like the goal was to address that level of financial opportunity ... doubt that anyone envisioned $4-8 million dollar "contracts" being signed.

I am aware, but thank you anyway.

 

[TemplarCane]

Here's a question.

He has to be on the roster for Year 3 to receive the $8M? Let's say he doesn't perform to expectations. He's okay, but not transcendent like a Vince Young. Most schools are on year to year scholarship renewals. Could the boosters lean on Tennessee to not renew his scholarship after Year 2, thereby voiding the obligation to pay him?

IIRC what I heard or read correctly, the contract is for three years and pays up to $8M. There are criteria to earn the full amount. These weren’t disclosed, but I assume a collection of social media qualifiers, personal appearances, etc.

Is the $EC on annual scholarship renewals? There was a movement a few years ago to model scholarships for four or five years. The notion schools could cut players from the team (and school?) to boost the next recruiting season’s total was publicly unappealing. I think the PAC12 and ACC moved to multi-year scholarships. Might be wrong.

 

[TemplarCane]

Say it again for the ppl in the back.

Again, THIS IS NOT WHAT NIL WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT.
-It was to stop prohibiting kids from earning $$ from their name, image, or likeness if their name, image, or likeness was used for any monetary value benefiting anyone besides said athletes.

-It was imposed to allow kids to be compensated w/o penalty if they were offered an opportunity to make $$ off of sold memorabilia w/ their name on it.

-It was supposed to allow them to be featured in a commercial & paid for their appearance.

-It was meant to allow said athletes an opportunity to get a piece of the merchandise sales schools receive when items w/ their image or name is on it.

-If a gaming company were to use their likeness to promote a game, product, etc., said student athletes were to be compensated.

THAT’S the nature of NIL. This chit as it currently is, is just boosters being pleaded w/ to openly pay kids on rosters (which is still pay for play) or transfer/HS recruits (again, pay for play).

It’s total horse chit.

My biggest issue so far is tampering with players at other schools. It’s obvious to most of us, but hard to prove.

I am surprised the notion a group of boosters would collectively arrange NIL deals did not occur to most of us. Seems like a no-brainer.

What is needed is third-party agencies representing players, seeking NIL deals, outside of the school-booster relationship. Coupled with legislation limiting or outright banning collectives, if this can be done nation-wide. This, plus collective bargaining with the players, since all of these rules impact them and therefore they should have a seat at the table.

 

[Hurracanes]

Be careful what you wish for...

Yeah, let’s limit reimbursements and regulate this so called “insanity” so the $EC can continue to manipulate the system and pay these players under the table which would only remove Miami from the equation, again. Brilliant idea!

Thankfully, the government has put athletes in position to be reimbursed for their name recognition and there is nothing the NCAA can do about it.

 

[Rickd]

Yeah, let’s limit reimbursements and regulate this so called “insanity” so the $EC can continue to manipulate the system and pay these players under the table which would only remove Miami from the equation, again. Brilliant idea!

Thankfully, the government has put athletes in position to be reimbursed for their name recognition and there is nothing the NCAA can do about it.

Being reimbursed for "name recognition" is one thing ... simply paying an athlete money to sign a commitment to play for a program is play for pay ... not what the object was.

 

[hurricaneman]

Thankfully, the government has put athletes in position to be reimbursed for their name recognition and there is nothing the NCAA can do about it.

But that's not at all what's actually happening. I'm getting really, really tired of people defended NIL by saying, "players are finally able to make money off their name". Texas A&M boosters paying players directly to come play football there is not a player making money off his name. That's a school paying a player a salary. Did LeBron James sign a salary contract with the LAL or did he sign an NIL deal? He has an NIL deal with Sprite, he is employed by the Lakers.

Everyone needs to acknowledge two different things are happening right now. There's actual NIL deals going on, where players and companies are benefiting financially from the deal and then there's schools just straight paying players through boosters. There's a reason that every professional sports organization has either a salary cap or penalties for going over a set threshold that get shared. Everyone arguing that we should just let everyone do whatever they want and not regulate this is going to be very unhappy with the result.

 

[Canesq]

All economic systems are disasters, the perfect market & perfect system doesn’t exist.

Someone or some group will get screwed or not get a fair share.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

But that's not at all what's actually happening. I'm getting really, really tired of people defended NIL by saying, "players are finally able to make money off their name". Texas A&M boosters paying players directly to come play football there is not a player making money off his name. That's a school paying a player a salary. Did LeBron James sign a salary contract with the LAL or did he sign an NIL deal? He has an NIL deal with Sprite, he is employed by the Lakers.

Everyone needs to acknowledge two different things are happening right now. There's actual NIL deals going on, where players and companies are benefiting financially from the deal and then there's schools just straight paying players through boosters. There's a reason that every professional sports organization has either a salary cap or penalties for going over a set threshold that get shared. Everyone arguing that we should just let everyone do whatever they want and not regulate this is going to be very unhappy with the result.

Do you want the NCAA to regulate this?

The same NCAA that has deliberately and willfully looked the other way while SEC schools paid under the table, and put them at an unfair advantage with the rest of college football with the exception of a couple schools like for example Ohio State, which had their own little system.

Yes there will be winners and losers in this new landscape of college football, but at least now there is a more equitable distribution of opportunity, whereas if we go back to something similar to what we had, the SEC will find a way, in fact they probably still are paying under the table, but that’s another issue.

All I see is a bunch of people saying they don’t like NIL, but nobody can come up with any actionable suggestions as to how it can be “controlled “. Controlled by the NCAA? No thanks, the SEC will have a secret plan the next day on how to game the system, with the backing of the NCAA .

 

[Shogungts]

Is the $EC on annual scholarship renewals? There was a movement a few years ago to model scholarships for four or five years. The notion schools could cut players from the team (and school?) to boost the next recruiting season’s total was publicly unappealing. I think the PAC12 and ACC moved to multi-year scholarships. Might be wrong.

No conferences did this that I am aware of. One of the guardrails they had put in place was to stop coaches from running off players was to limit the scholarships per year to 25. Unfortunately, with the transfer portal going crazy and schools like ASU getting decimated by kids transferring, the 25 limit was stopping them from being able to fill their roster so the NCAA just lifted the 25 per year cap and just limit it to 85 total scholarship players period. This will likely mean schools start running off players at a higher rate again as they now take as many players as they want between recruiting and transfers.

I have some sympathy for the NCAA here as it is not an easy problem to solve; I think one thing that they should do (as you suggested) is require schools to honor a 4 year scholarship unless the player does something (besides not being as good at football as they hoped he would be) to deem taking it away. Kids that are forced out and still want to play football would still need to transfer, but maybe a kid who is going into his 4th year and knows the NFL is not in his future decides to just become a normal student and graduate from that school.

 

[Hurracanes]

Being reimbursed for "name recognition" is one thing ... simply paying an athlete money to sign a commitment to play for a program is play for pay ... not what the object was.

So you’re against everything Ruiz is doing? Lol. Let me burst your bubble, my dude, kids have been paid to sign with schools for nearly 50 ******* years. NIL gives everyone a shot to get kids. Miss me with this narrative.