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Ruiz Securities Deal Approved

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Genghis Cane said:
Understood. This is a sphere where I’m out of my depth so I felt compelled to ask some of the more knowledgeable folks on here.
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Obviously I meant to dictate Stewart Mandel, not Stuart Mandela, but that’s why sometimes the speech to text option is, quite frankly, a POS.
 
Cryptical Envelopment said:
Still waiting. Thank you.
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I have NO agenda regarding Ruiz ... I am simply looking at PUBLIC DOCUMENTS that indicate that MSPR is nowhere near in any condition to be even sniffing profitability. The balance sheet is a disaster. The company was founded in 2014. Every place you look for information on Ruiz dealings there are a series of bankruptcies, foreclosures, and this deal where 29 million shares of CLASS A COMMON stock are the total market float, yet executives of the company own another 900 million shares of Class A common, and Ruiz and Quesada own a combined 3 billion shares of Class V Stock. How does anybody in their right mind take the $10 a share value that was the pre-merger market price on a 12 million share float and use that $10 to value the 3 billion shares of Class V stock? Ludicrous. Sure ... 2 years from now IF the payment recovery business becomes more efficient and doesn't cost $2-3 in expenses for every dollar of revenue (as it is currently) then maybe it can become a company with $1 billion in revenue and a profit margin. That is a huge leap from what the current operating statements indicate ... and I don't give a rats *** about "stock price" I am talking about $8 million in first quarter revenue with an operating loss before interest of $3.5 million and then $10.4 million in interest expense on top of that. A $14 million dollar operating loss in the first quarter on $8 million in revenue. I have NO freaking agenda with Ruiz. Couldn't give a ****. HE is the one making the noise, I am a Canes fan, he is riding on the Canes coat tails. I used to work in the securities industry ... so I am ASKING OBVIOUS QUESTIONS regarding the legitimate viability of his operation.
 
Ajcane8 said:
OK - why, then, do you think the guy with the law firm that settles 10 billion dollar cases, and the boat racing company, and the 767, and the 50 million dollar waterfront property, and the… who is currently able to fund all of the NIL deals he wants - even with his new pet project operating at a "substantial" loss - wont be able to do just the same next year, or the year after, or when (fine, if) his pet project starts turning a profit.

Ultimately, though, the success or failure of MSP has little bearing on your CONCERN. Multiple posters here, all of whom have already proven their bona fides on a wide array of insider topics, have stated that there are a number of deep pocketed individuals who are moving like lasagna w/r/t NIL deals. Ruiz is simply the loudest, right now.
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Sure hope that there ARE a number of other individuals forming a NIL "fund" of some type. Just don't like the idea that UM would possibly be dependent on Ruiz and the success of MSPR for NIL support over the next 5-10 year period.
 
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When Ruiz starting getting real vocal a few months back that’s where I saw a potential problem.

Ruiz was/is too loud. And unfortunately perception is reality. This is more ammunition for negative recruiting.

I don’t play the stock game so I’m not sure what to make of it, but in most cases where there is smoke.. there is fire.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Fūck no. If you’ve been keeping up you know it, and I’m not saying that to be a jerk, I’m just saying that - so that you understand that is a solicitation, in other words a lawyer ad. Stuart Mandela so stupid he doesn’t realize that
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Ruiz going for their scalps in the morning.

 
Rickd said:
I have NO agenda regarding Ruiz ... I am simply looking at PUBLIC DOCUMENTS that indicate that MSPR is nowhere near in any condition to be even sniffing profitability. The balance sheet is a disaster. The company was founded in 2014. Every place you look for information on Ruiz dealings there are a series of bankruptcies, foreclosures, and this deal where 29 million shares of CLASS A COMMON stock are the total market float, yet executives of the company own another 900 million shares of Class A common, and Ruiz and Quesada own a combined 3 billion shares of Class V Stock. How does anybody in their right mind take the $10 a share value that was the pre-merger market price on a 12 million share float and use that $10 to value the 3 billion shares of Class V stock? Ludicrous. Sure ... 2 years from now IF the payment recovery business becomes more efficient and doesn't cost $2-3 in expenses for every dollar of revenue (as it is currently) then maybe it can become a company with $1 billion in revenue and a profit margin. That is a huge leap from what the current operating statements indicate ... and I don't give a rats *** about "stock price" I am talking about $8 million in first quarter revenue with an operating loss before interest of $3.5 million and then $10.4 million in interest expense on top of that. A $14 million dollar operating loss in the first quarter on $8 million in revenue. I have NO freaking agenda with Ruiz. Couldn't give a ****. HE is the one making the noise, I am a Canes fan, he is riding on the Canes coat tails. I used to work in the securities industry ... so I am ASKING OBVIOUS QUESTIONS regarding the legitimate viability of his operation.
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I read their docs. It appears to be an investment in the law firm's recoveries.
 
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JeddTheFisch said:
I read their docs. It appears to be an investment in the law firm's recoveries.
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The business is the recovery of erroneous payments made by Medicare that should have been made by the insured's primary insurer. Billions of dollars in mistaken payments annually by Medicare. The challenge is to EFFICIENTLY enact a successful recovery effort and have your recovery earnings be more than your cost of earning that recovery revenue. Insurance companies don't want to pay ... they have to be lead to the trough.
 
Rickd said:
The business is the recovery of erroneous payments made by Medicare that should have been made by the insured's primary insurer. Billions of dollars in mistaken payments annually by Medicare. The challenge is to EFFICIENTLY enact a successful recovery effort and have your recovery earnings be more than your cost of earning that recovery revenue. Insurance companies don't want to pay ... they have to be lead to the trough.
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When you have Medicare, isn't that always your "primary insurer"? Any other health insurance is secondary, to pick up all or part of what Medicare doesn't cover.
 
Rickd said:
Sure hope that there ARE a number of other individuals forming a NIL "fund" of some type. Just don't like the idea that UM would possibly be dependent on Ruiz and the success of MSPR for NIL support over the next 5-10 year period.
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Multiple people here have said just that - you can choose not to believe them, and that's fine.

IMO, the pushback to your original claim (such that it was - Ruiz's (in)ability to satisfy his current [to near-term] NIL debts) was born because it is somewhat strange for a Canes fan to be driving the "John Ruiz... I don't know, seems kinda fishy" bus.
 
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Cryptical Envelopment said:
Prove that, please. I understand differently. From what I understand he's a billionaire without it, possibly twice over. Go research the class-action lawsuits his wholly-owned firm has won, the amounts (spoiler: over $20B in the aggregate), and what his firm's share in those judgements were, then think about how real estate, the stock market, and hedge funds have done in the last few years and then come back and let me know if you still believe what you wrote. He also still owns that successful law firm that is still trying lucrative class actions, has further investments, and owns Cigarette Racing with a partner. If you look at his spending and acquisition patterns, it's very clear the man is LIQUID.

Also, what you wrote about the Homestead deal is really misleading, spinning, and I really just lost a lot of respect for you on this subject. Clear agenda, IMO.

But back to the first part, you just made a concrete absolute statement about "Ruiz (not being) a Billionaire without MSPR being successful."

Show us your work.
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He is not.

1) The FPL case was a certified as a class action by Judge Miller in Miami-Dade; this is not the same as having a $10 billion verdict. While Plaintiffs may be claiming a $10 billion loss, there has been no verdict or final judgment awarding that amount, and the case could still be lost at summary judgment or at trial.

2) Ruiz's firm has not won $20 billion in the class actions. He has a) won class actions, and b) valued those class actions in the billions (see point 1), but he has not recovered that whatsoever.

Again, Ruiz is a showman (and a **** good one at that); he has been a very, very successful lawyer by all measures, but claiming $20 billion in recovery of class actions would make him the most successful lawyer in this country's history. He is not that.

3) With regard to the MSP recovery, Ruiz has made money, yes. But he is not the guy who sees the entire recovery. Another law firm prosecutes the case, and Ruiz takes 40% of that recovery. His nut is 40% of 40%; it is not the full 40%. His process works this way:

- Ruiz identifies a claim where Medicare paid a claim when the insurer should have. He farms this identified claim to another firm, agreeing to take 40% of the farmed firm's recovery. Most plaintiff's firms take 35-40% under Florida law; thus, Ruiz recovers 40% of that ultimate recovery.​
​
- Let's say that the farmed firm gets a $1 million recovery. That firm pockets 40%, or $400,000. Ruiz takes his 40% cut, or $160,000. That's his nut for identifying the claim and farming out the case.​

That's a nice little piece of action! But there are a bunch of issues with this. First, very few of the claims identified are worth $1 million; most of the recoveries, in totality, are less than $75,000. But Ruiz has argued in his SEC papers that within five years, his firm will be making $24 billion in revenue annually by 2026. Setting aside the fact that a) that is roughly equivalent to the annual revenue generated by Exxon-Mobil, and b) many of the claims he identifies are small, the numbers are just very hard to believe.

Based on the $1 million example above, Ruiz would need to identify roughly 150,000 claims - and have the farmed firm recover in every single one of them - in order to reach that target. There are only so many claims that are out there, and the number gets smaller each time MSP identifies any such claim. And his own success drives down his firm's ability to recover in the future, since Medicare itself has identified the issue and the number of mistaken payments are dwindling every year.

4) Ruiz is independently wealthy (which is why I've always said, along with Original Cane Hater, that no matter what happens with MSPR, Ruiz will continue to effectuate those deals). I'd put his net worth at around $100 million, based on the fact that he's a very, very good lawyer and was the first game in town on the MSP Recovery stuff.

That's the type of cheese that affords you the ability to purchase the $40 million home on the water and the cigarette boating team. And there's ALWAYS a lender willing to extend money to people who have their money tied up in stock; Ruiz could easily borrow enough money to finance the planes, the boating teams, etc. putting up his ownership percentage in MSPR as collateral. As long as one bank/equity firm is willing to bankroll you based on a belief that the stock will go up eventually, he'd be able to buy all the planes he wants. He isn't reaching into his pocket and dropping down $150M to purchase the plane outright; it's all financed.

People will point at me and say that I'm a hater, blah blah blah. I'm not. Ruiz has enough $$ to continue being a player in the NIL stuff, and he's done very, very well for himself. But he's only a billionaire if the MSPR stock ends up at the price he values it at, and right now the market isn't buying that valuation. It's just that simple.

Jeff Bezos wasn't the richest man in the world until Amazon stock started trading at a premium. Ruiz won't be one of the wealthiest men in the country until MSPR starts doing the same. Pretty simple.
 
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Another point on the FPL class action - Ruiz is one of many, many, MANY plaintiff's lawyer on that case. Even if $10 billion is awarded in that case, he's not getting 40% of it; that pie is going to be divided up in a million different ways.

Just to reiterate: I'm not a Ruiz hater. I love what he's doing for the program. I just don't buy the billionaire label, and the market doesn't appear to be either - at least at this time.
 
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Rickd said:
I have NO agenda regarding Ruiz ... I am simply looking at PUBLIC DOCUMENTS that indicate that MSPR is nowhere near in any condition to be even sniffing profitability. The balance sheet is a disaster. The company was founded in 2014. Every place you look for information on Ruiz dealings there are a series of bankruptcies, foreclosures, and this deal where 29 million shares of CLASS A COMMON stock are the total market float, yet executives of the company own another 900 million shares of Class A common, and Ruiz and Quesada own a combined 3 billion shares of Class V Stock. How does anybody in their right mind take the $10 a share value that was the pre-merger market price on a 12 million share float and use that $10 to value the 3 billion shares of Class V stock? Ludicrous. Sure ... 2 years from now IF the payment recovery business becomes more efficient and doesn't cost $2-3 in expenses for every dollar of revenue (as it is currently) then maybe it can become a company with $1 billion in revenue and a profit margin. That is a huge leap from what the current operating statements indicate ... and I don't give a rats *** about "stock price" I am talking about $8 million in first quarter revenue with an operating loss before interest of $3.5 million and then $10.4 million in interest expense on top of that. A $14 million dollar operating loss in the first quarter on $8 million in revenue. I have NO freaking agenda with Ruiz. Couldn't give a ****. HE is the one making the noise, I am a Canes fan, he is riding on the Canes coat tails. I used to work in the securities industry ... so I am ASKING OBVIOUS QUESTIONS regarding the legitimate viability of his operation.
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Keep giving our enemies ammunition you asshøle. Again, where is the NIL angle?
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Keep giving our enemies ammunition you asshøle. Again, where is the NIL angle?
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**** you ******* .... guess you need to be addressed in the language you use towards others. Clear enough? Giving them ammunition???? It is ALL 100% PUBLIC INFORMATION ON THE NASDAQ SITE. The "topic" is all over the sports and financial website newscasts. It is ALL being discussed on every Canes football board ... has been since the merger. Being discussed on the main board. Meet it head on. Address it ... discuss it. Understand it. MSPR is an extremely speculative stock and company. It MIGHT succeed but it is behind on achieving operating benchmarks. Ruiz MIGHT have personal wealth independent of MSPR sufficient to continue NIL programs for 2023 and other future classes. That has yet to be confirmed. Life Wallet IS part of MSPR ... there is even a convenient tab on the MSPR website to view the athletes with NIL deals.

Hoping that at least 1-2 other entities are in the works, independent of this group, to ensure that UM has other sources of NIL deals going forward to maintain a competitive position vs other major programs. Would be great if MSPR attains a break even level of operations and turns a profit ... but even better if that happens and his group is one of at least 3 major NIL groups supporting UM athletics.
 
Katzenboyer said:
He is not.

1) The FPL case was a certified as a class action by Judge Miller in Miami-Dade; this is not the same as having a $10 billion verdict. While Plaintiffs may be claiming a $10 billion loss, there has been no verdict or final judgment awarding that amount, and the case could still be lost at summary judgment or at trial.

2) Ruiz's firm has not won $20 billion in the class actions. He has a) won class actions, and b) valued those class actions in the billions (see point 1), but he has not recovered that whatsoever.

Again, Ruiz is a showman (and a **** good one at that); he has been a very, very successful lawyer by all measures, but claiming $20 billion in recovery of class actions would make him the most successful lawyer in this country's history. He is not that.

3) With regard to the MSP recovery, Ruiz has made money, yes. But he is not the guy who sees the entire recovery. Another law firm prosecutes the case, and Ruiz takes 40% of that recovery. His nut is 40% of 40%; it is not the full 40%. His process works this way:

- Ruiz identifies a claim where Medicare paid a claim when the insurer should have. He farms this identified claim to another firm, agreeing to take 40% of the farmed firm's recovery. Most plaintiff's firms take 35-40% under Florida law; thus, Ruiz recovers 40% of that ultimate recovery.​
​
- Let's say that the farmed firm gets a $1 million recovery. That firm pockets 40%, or $400,000. Ruiz takes his 40% cut, or $160,000. That's his nut for identifying the claim and farming out the case.​

That's a nice little piece of action! But there are a bunch of issues with this. First, very few of the claims identified are worth $1 million; most of the recoveries, in totality, are less than $75,000. But Ruiz has argued in his SEC papers that within five years, his firm will be making $24 billion in revenue annually by 2026. Setting aside the fact that a) that is roughly equivalent to the annual revenue generated by Exxon-Mobil, and b) many of the claims he identifies are small, the numbers are just very hard to believe.

Based on the $1 million example above, Ruiz would need to identify roughly 150,000 claims - and have the farmed firm recover in every single one of them - in order to reach that target. There are only so many claims that are out there, and the number gets smaller each time MSP identifies any such claim. And his own success drives down his firm's ability to recover in the future, since Medicare itself has identified the issue and the number of mistaken payments are dwindling every year.

4) Ruiz is independently wealthy (which is why I've always said, along with Original Cane Hater, that no matter what happens with MSPR, Ruiz will continue to effectuate those deals). I'd put his net worth at around $100 million, based on the fact that he's a very, very good lawyer and was the first game in town on the MSP Recovery stuff.

That's the type of cheese that affords you the ability to purchase the $40 million home on the water and the cigarette boating team. And there's ALWAYS a lender willing to extend money to people who have their money tied up in stock; Ruiz could easily borrow enough money to finance the planes, the boating teams, etc. putting up his ownership percentage in MSPR as collateral. As long as one bank/equity firm is willing to bankroll you based on a belief that the stock will go up eventually, he'd be able to buy all the planes he wants. He isn't reaching into his pocket and dropping down $150M to purchase the plane outright; it's all financed.

People will point at me and say that I'm a hater, blah blah blah. I'm not. Ruiz has enough $$ to continue being a player in the NIL stuff, and he's done very, very well for himself. But he's only a billionaire if the MSPR stock ends up at the price he values it at, and right now the market isn't buying that valuation. It's just that simple.

Jeff Bezos wasn't the richest man in the world until Amazon stock started trading at a premium. Ruiz won't be one of the wealthiest men in the country until MSPR starts doing the same. Pretty simple.
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Good stuff. I don't think you're a hater, as you're not just making things up out of thin air. I am going to vomit this out as I am slammed today so forgive my poor diction and any punctuation mistakes if you will. I would contest your objection to the aggregate amounts of his class action victories. And I think your estimate of his net worth is absolutely incredibly low (of course everything is financed, it would be dumb for him to pay cash) as his assets are clearly in line with someone who has a much higher net worth, but if his $ was as low as you estimate, he'd never get the financing for all of this, as underwriting would have been harder on the valuation than the market, and if he did it would be a house of cards. Especially for a depreciating asset like a Quantas 767 and the $15M renovation. Absurd. I've seen nothing, nor have I heard from any contacts in the space (or that know him) that he is that. Supposedly he did very well with his investments over the last half decade as well, once he made a few windfalls. I can't speak to who, but I know someone who is ancillary to one of the major deals of his that has been mentioned on this board, and he tells me the man is liquid.

I can say if my life was out there, and you tried to estimate my worth by what it appears I've made, spending habits, what have you, you'd be wildly incorrect. Making money is a small part of it. What you do with it once you have it is what matters.

Now as far as MSPR goes, at its current naked shorted-out-of-its-pants share price, Ruiz's stock is still worth 10 figures. So yes, as we live and breathe, he's a billionaire +. But we are in agreement as to the future. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, **** up. Which is why I've used the word "speculative" over and over every time I've mentioned it to dissuade casual investors on here from thinking this is an easy win. That said, if he is outright lying, or even significantly stretching, he is exposing himself to SEC and possibly criminal exposure. Which makes very little sense. One, he's pretty buttoned up. How he runs NIL is a great example. Two, the stock price DOESN'T MATTER TO HIM RIGHT NOW. So to what end? 90% of the original SPAC investors were going out anyway.

Some quotes/notes/unconfirmed color:


The company says it is sitting on a $1.5 trillion portfolio of billed claims with $87 billion in “potentially recoverable claims.”

aiotl.org

John Ruiz - American Institute of Trial Lawyers

Entrepreneur, businessman, and attorney, John H. Ruiz, is the founder […]
aiotl.org aiotl.org

"He has been involved as counsel in cases that have totaled more than $20 billion in settlements."

And blah blah blah.
 
Just bought a couple shares. I think this purchase should scare everybody shorting and send the price to the moon
 
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