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Romberg On Mario's Rebuilding Process

Angry Ibis said:
I’m now seeing a lot of “development” being thrown around….

What evidence is there Mario develops players?
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He's in year 2 going into year 3 where most the young guys will just begin to get meaningful snaps. His first full recruiting class of 2023 is just going into their 2nd year. However, you already saw development with Francis, Bain, Kelly, D Brown, Cooper, and McCoy. I would include Porter even though he was a transfer because his play was suspect until Addae got here. I left off Bissainthe. He is being developed, but quite frankly he played poorly and was a disappointment this past season. I'm looking for younger players to challenge him. Would love to see Chase Smith move to the outside and grab that spot.

Mario's true first class was 2023 which you really shouldn't judge until 2025. The 2022 class was a 2 week miracle where Mario pulled us from the mid 40's to a top 20 class.

Don't even try to discount players like Bain and Francis being plug and play from high school. Yes, they were very talented when they arrived. However, any player or coach will tell you Bain made a huge jump from his arrival from Spring football to Fall camp. Francis had to be developed to be ready for P5. He is still developing.

Credit has to be given. Just like Saban or Kirby getting credit for putting 5-stars into the NFL, the same credit must be given to Mario & staff for the talented players that play well. We had more freshman play than any other school in the country.

Show me Norvell's recruits getting meaningful snaps. All I saw were a bunch of transfers starting for them. Kudos for getting them to gel together, but those weren't his guys.
 
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Udynasty said:
I agree with all of the above. By no means Do I see Norvell in the same stratosphere as the aformentioned coaches nor do I think his process is sustainable in the long term.
I even wrote about this:




But this is a results based business. Norvell got results by year 3. For Cristobal, the excuses and reasons
for mediocrity have dissapeared effective immediately. This is his team now and his culture. Year three I dont expect an ACC championship. I expect continued improvement and at least a nine win REGULAR season.

He has like three portal classes under his belt and two whole recruting classes including the 23 class which he has kept almost 100% in tact. Let's see what happens.
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Exactly. This is year 3 where we should see significant improvement.

I don't give credit to Norvell. The portal saved his job. He's just doing 1 year stop gaps like Mel Tucker did, but Tucker only had 1 year of success. Norvell had Travis for his entire 3 years and he still has to go portal for a QB. Now, he's relying on DJ U to save his ***.

Mario is building a sustainable product that will last. Norvell is taking shortcuts because he couldn't recruit. I don't think Norvell is a good recruiter. He may get lucky and hit on the portal again while his high school recruiting improves. He got his first top 15 class in 4 years at FSU. His recruiting success was from winning via a majority of portal players starting. A good strategy if he can sustain it. What happens if Norvell goes 8-4 or 7-5 next season? Will his high school recruiting take a dip?

I look at the Miami and FSU football programs as two luxury houses being built. The FSU house is being built with a bunch of short cuts and material that won't last. The house went up quickly and looks beautiful. The owners are very happy throwing lavish parties at their new digs. They're bragging to their neighbor Mario next door at how great their house is while he's still pouring the foundation and having setbacks.

Despite quick success of the FSU house being built, small cracks in the foundation walls are already starting to show. Meanwhile, the house next door Mario is building is slow and methodical. There have been setbacks. Some of the building material were suspect and had to be replaced with superior material, but delivery has had delays. Rather than a short term fix. Mario opts for sustainable lasting building methods. When Mario's house is complete, it will be beautiful, and sustainable with minimum maintenance. FSU will be constantly making repairs to their house due to short cuts and shoddy construction.

That's my take on where the FSU and Miami programs are currently and headed into the future.
 
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Number1CanesFan said:
Exactly. This is year 3 where we should see significant improvement.

I don't give credit to Norvell. The portal saved his job. He's just doing 1 year stop gaps like Mel Tucker did, but Tucker only had 1 year of success. Norvell had Travis for his entire 3 years and he still has to go portal for a QB. Now, he's relying on DJ U to save his ***.

Mario is building a sustainable product that will last. Norvell is taking shortcuts because he couldn't recruit. I don't think Norvell is a good recruiter. He may get lucky and hit on the portal again while his high school recruiting improves. He got his first top 15 class in 4 years at FSU. His recruiting success was from the winning via a majority of portal players starting. A good strategy if he can sustain it. What happens if Norvell goes 8-4 or 7-5 next season? Will his high school recruiting take a dip?

I look at the Miami and FSU football programs as two luxury houses being built. The FSU house is being built with a bunch of short cuts and material that won't last. The house went up quickly and looks beautiful. The owners are very happy throwing lavish parties at their new digs. They're bragging to their neighbor Mario next door at how great their house is while he's still pouring the foundation and having setbacks.

Despite quick success of the FSU house being built, small cracks in the foundation walls are already starting to show. Meanwhile, the house next door Mario is building is slow and methodical. There have been setbacks. Some of the building material were suspect and had to be replaced with superior material, but delivery has had delays. Rather than a short term fix. Mario opts for sustainable lasting building methods. When Mario's house is complete, it will be beautiful, and sustainable with minimum maintenance. FSU will be constantly making repairs to their house due to short cuts and shoddy construction.

That's my take on where FSU and Miami are at and headed.
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great analogy
 
Number1CanesFan said:
He's in year 2 going into year 3 where most the young guys will just begin to get meaningful snaps. His first full recruiting class of 2023 is just going into their 2nd year. However, you already saw development with Francis, Bain, Kelly, D Brown, Cooper, and McCoy. I would include Porter even though he was a transfer because his play was suspect until Addae got here. I left off Bissainthe. He is being developed, but quite frankly he played poorly and was a disappointment this past season. I'm looking for younger players to challenge him. Would love to see Chase Smith move to the outside and grab that spot.

Mario's true first class was 2023 which you really shouldn't judge until 2025. The 2022 class was a 2 week miracle where Mario pulled us from the mid 40's to a top 20 class.

Don't even try to discount players like Bain and Francis being plug and play from high school. Yes, they were very talented when they arrived. However, any player or coach will tell you Bain made a huge jump from his arrival from Spring football to Fall camp. Francis had to be developed to be ready for P5. He is still developing.

Credit has to be given. Just like Saban or Kirby getting credit for putting 5-stars into the NFL, the same credit must be given to Mario & staff for the talented players that play well. We had more freshman play than any other school in the country.

Show me Norvell's recruits getting meaningful snaps. All I saw were a bunch of transfers starting for them. Kudos for getting them to gel together, but those weren't his guys.
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Thank you for actually providing examples vs those that just add “development” to Mario alleged list of accomplishments…

I’m not sure what Norvell has to with Mario’s development prowess, but since you brought him up, he’s won more games this year than Mario has in the last 2 years combined… so Norvell has developed “wins”…
 
Angry Ibis said:
Thank you for actually providing examples vs those that just add “development” to Mario alleged list of accomplishments…

I’m not sure what Norvell has to with Mario’s development prowess, but since you brought him up, he’s won more games this year than Mario has in the last 2 years combined… so Norvell has developed “wins”…
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The point is they are taking 2 completely different paths. Norvell was forced down his path of heavy portal starters because he hasn't recruited well. He was in year 3 with 2 consecutive losing seasons. He's achieving success relying on the portal, but it's not sustainable unless he can put together top level high school recruiting.

Mario's construction process is different. It's not instant success. It's gradual, but sustainable.

The reason for the comparison is because people are slurping on Norvell and hating on Mario because Norvell is experiencing success. Norvell is in his 5th year at FSU. Mario is in his 3rd year at Miami. Fans are so unrealistic only looking at the here and now comparing the two rather than looking at where Norvell was at the same time frame and how he built his program. What will Mario's program look like in 2025 and 2026. That's the true comparison to Norvell's 2022, and 2023. So far, Mario's 1st 2 seasons were better than Norvell's 3-6 and 5-7.

You saw the Norvell program fall apart at the end of the year like a house of cards with all the opt outs and players hitting the transfer portal before the bowl game. Now he's trying to rebuild his house again via the portal needing 20-30 players. He searching for 75%-80% of his 2-deep. That's not how I want to run a program.
 
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Number1CanesFan said:
The point is they are taking 2 completely different paths. Novell was forced down his path of heavy portal starters because he hasn't recruited well. He was in year 3 with 2 consecutive losing seasons. He's achieving success relying on the portal, but it's not sustainable unless he can put together top level high school recruiting.

Mario's construction process is different. It's not instant success. It's gradual, but sustainable.

The reason for the comparison is because people are slurping on Norvell and hating on Mario because Norvell is experiencing success. Norvell is in his 5th year at FSU. Mario is in his 3rd year at Miami. Fans are so unrealistic only looking at the here and now comparing the two rather than looking at where Norvell was at the same time frame and how he built his program.

You saw the Norvell program fall apart like a house of cards with all the opt outs and transfer outs. Now he's trying to rebuild his house again via the portal needing 20-30 players. He searching for 75%-80% of his 2-deep. That's not how I want to run a program.
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I think the last part is overrated. They got screwed by the selection committee and anyone that was moving on or out was encouraged to do so… it’s not about some faux culture argument IMO…

Mario was to be developing a culture and we saw OL leaving their QB laying on the field, DB arguing with their coach, WR getting after the play penalties in the bowl game…

I agree that there are different ways to build… Norvell built through the portal, won games and then brought in a top 10 class, along with another top 10 portal class…

The 2024 schedule is a 10 win schedule. We should have been at 10 this year but we lost winnable games due to coaching…

Mario is building a team through a model that works for him, but if he doesn’t adapt to the portal and his game day coaching, he’ll continue to underachieve vs the talent he has...
 
Angry Ibis said:
I think the last part is overrated. They got screwed by the selection committee and anyone that was moving on or out was encouraged to do so… it’s not about some faux culture argument IMO…

Mario was to be developing a culture and we saw OL leaving their QB laying on the field, DB arguing with their coach, WR getting after the play penalties in the bowl game…

I agree that there are different ways to build… Norvell built through the portal, won games and then brought in a top 10 class, along with another top 10 portal class…

The 2024 schedule is a 10 win schedule. We should have been at 10 this year but we lost winnable games due to coaching…

Mario is building a team through a model that works for him, but if he doesn’t adapt to the portal and his game day coaching, he’ll continue to underachieve vs the talent he has...
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I disagree. UGA got screwed just as much as FSU. They didn't cry and whine. They didn't have a massive opt out and players hitting the portal. They had a few. That was to be expected. That's a difference in the recruiting and culture.

The FSU debacle is exactly why Dabo doesn't want to use the portal. He doesn't want rat poison in the program and messing with the culture he built.

You have a mass exodus at FSU because the program isn't built right. You had a bunch of mercenaries starting with no vested loyalty to the program and then you had vested guys behind them who had been in the program multiple years who said, "FU Norvell", and hit the portal before the bowl.

Tate Rodemaker waited his turn behind Travis for multiple years. When it was evident Norvell was looking in the portal for a QB, Rodemaker said "FU Norvell" as well and hit the portal before the bowl game. He could have played for his teammates and hit the portal after the game. Same situation as JB, but you see what JB did.
 
Number1CanesFan said:
I disagree. UGA got screwed just as much as FSU. They didn't cry and whine. They didn't have a massive opt out and players hitting the portal. They had a few. That was to be expected. That's a difference in the recruiting and culture.

The FSU debacle is exactly why Dabo doesn't want to use the portal. He doesn't want rat poison in the program and messing with the culture he built.

You have a mass exodus at FSU because the program isn't built right. You had a bunch of mercenaries starting with no vested loyalty to the program and then you had vested guys behind them who had been in the program multiple years who said, "FU Norvell", and hit the portal before the bowl.

Tate Rodemaker waited his turn behind Travis for multiple years. When it was evident Norvell was looking in the portal for a QB, Rodemaker said "FU Norvell" as well and hit the portal before the bowl game. He could have played for his teammates and hit the portal after the game. Same situation as JB, but you see what JB did.
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We are actively hunting a mercenary to play the most important position on the team…
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
So if this is true the cancer was about near terminal. One or two classes is not changing a culture this ****ed up and it explain 2022. Okay, Mario you are on the clock. You've pretty much flipped the entire roster. Close the remaining roster gaps. Schedule is favorable. Your OC and DC return. No excuse going into the 2024 season.
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Just weird how manny still won 15 games his last two years (would have been 16 or 17 without 2020 cancellations). with such a supposed cancerous team and terrible culture
 
Yoyo82 said:
In 2020, one of his Pac "championships", he went 4-3, got beat 34-17 by Iowa State in the bowl game, and finished ranked 25.. Tired of people using that as some kind of great year for Mario. And the Pac has been down bad during his time there. A perfect storm for a great recruiter and bad game day coach.

2019, his 2nd year, was a good year at Oregon. But it was bolstered by a very weak schedule. He lost to eventual 9-4 Auburn to open the season. Beat up a bunch of mediocre PAC teams (except Arizona State , who upset them with a losing record in the PAC) who's best record was 8-5 to end the season, and then won 2 impressive games against Utah and Wisconsin to finish the season. He wasn't THAT impressive at Oregon.

in his years at Oregon he had 3 impressive wins. Utah, Wisconsin, and Ohio State. He had at least as many bad losses

Besides, we have our own sample size at Miami now. And it's worse than any other natl title coach in the country and any head coach we've had here in 40 years. Even Howard Schnellenberger had a better record through 2 years. And he took over a program that was on the verge of dropping football.

If Mario wants to win a title, odds are stacked against him and he'll need to drastically change the way he does things. He needs to reinvent himself and reinvent college football in some ways. Take what he's learned from Saban, Butch, Jimmy. Erickson, etc and create something new.
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Oregon only went to the 2020 pac 12 championship because Washington had an “outbreak”.
 
Number1CanesFan said:
I disagree. UGA got screwed just as much as FSU. They didn't cry and whine. They didn't have a massive opt out and players hitting the portal. They had a few. That was to be expected. That's a difference in the recruiting and culture.

The FSU debacle is exactly why Dabo doesn't want to use the portal. He doesn't want rat poison in the program and messing with the culture he built.

You have a mass exodus at FSU because the program isn't built right. You had a bunch of mercenaries starting with no vested loyalty to the program and then you had vested guys behind them who had been in the program multiple years who said, "FU Norvell", and hit the portal before the bowl.

Tate Rodemaker waited his turn behind Travis for multiple years. When it was evident Norvell was looking in the portal for a QB, Rodemaker said "FU Norvell" as well and hit the portal before the bowl game. He could have played for his teammates and hit the portal after the game. Same situation as JB, but you see what JB did.
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As much as I hate Georgia, you have to admire the culture over there.

Smart got them all bought into sending off the Seniors as the 'winningest' class ever at the school in that Bowl game - and boy did they disembowel Forfeit State.
 
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Number1CanesFan said:
Exactly. This is year 3 where we should see significant improvement.

I don't give credit to Norvell. The portal saved his job. He's just doing 1 year stop gaps like Mel Tucker did, but Tucker only had 1 year of success. Norvell had Travis for his entire 3 years and he still has to go portal for a QB. Now, he's relying on DJ U to save his ***.

Mario is building a sustainable product that will last. Norvell is taking shortcuts because he couldn't recruit. I don't think Norvell is a good recruiter. He may get lucky and hit on the portal again while his high school recruiting improves. He got his first top 15 class in 4 years at FSU. His recruiting success was from winning via a majority of portal players starting. A good strategy if he can sustain it. What happens if Norvell goes 8-4 or 7-5 next season? Will his high school recruiting take a dip?

I look at the Miami and FSU football programs as two luxury houses being built. The FSU house is being built with a bunch of short cuts and material that won't last. The house went up quickly and looks beautiful. The owners are very happy throwing lavish parties at their new digs. They're bragging to their neighbor Mario next door at how great their house is while he's still pouring the foundation and having setbacks.

Despite quick success of the FSU house being built, small cracks in the foundation walls are already starting to show. Meanwhile, the house next door Mario is building is slow and methodical. There have been setbacks. Some of the building material were suspect and had to be replaced with superior material, but delivery has had delays. Rather than a short term fix. Mario opts for sustainable lasting building methods. When Mario's house is complete, it will be beautiful, and sustainable with minimum maintenance. FSU will be constantly making repairs to their house due to short cuts and shoddy construction.

That's my take on where the FSU and Miami programs are currently and headed into the future.
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I couldn’t agree more with your assessment. Spot on.
 
Was not about to read all the previous nine pages but I hve two thoughts.
1. With out a doubt, Mario's won/loss record has been dismal.
2. Our roster's the last 15 years has been similar to the pre-Schellenberger years, 5 (give or take) real football players, then a bunch of guys who play football. Young guys are going to make stupid penaties, it just the nature of developing football players. Without a doubt are football roster is in much better, although young, it is probably in the best shape since I can not remember when. This is the telling year, a continuing coaching staff, players with a year or more under the their belt, and a favorable schedule that should result in a least 9 wins, but 10 would show real improvment. I am withholding judgement of Mario till the end of year three and possible year four. The expectations after two seasons is just not realistic considering the chaos. (coach, players, and administration), that has ruled over the last 15+ years.
 
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rch said:
Was not about to read all the previous nine pages but I hve two thoughts.
1. With out a doubt, Mario's won/loss record has been dismal.
2. Our roster's the last 15 years has been similar to the pre-Schellenberger years, 5 (give or take) real football players, then a bunch of guys who play football. Young guys are going to make stupid penaties, it just the nature of developing football players. Without a doubt are football roster is in much better, although young, it is probably in the best shape since I can not remember when. This is the telling year, a continuing coaching staff, players with a year or more under the their belt, and a favorable schedule that should result in a least 9 wins, but 10 would show real improvment. I am withholding judgement of Mario till the end of year three and possible year four. The expectations after two seasons is just not realistic considering the chaos. (coach, players, and administration), that has ruled over the last 15+ years.
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Is this a different expectation than you had for the previous staffs?
 
Michigan finished 54 in F+ the year before Harbaugh.

The first year under him they jumped to 11. Every year since:

3
16
6
12
56 (COVID)
4
3
1

Your analytic ranking is a far better indicator of future success than your record.

Harbaugh got to Michigan had immediately had them playing to a very good to elite level almost every year.

Mario is not even close to this. Even his Oregon teams tended to have a better record than the analytics say they should have. His best team that everybody points to only finished 13th.

What we are seeing now is his record has been more reflective of the level of play, and even actually the flip side of the good luck he had in Oregon.

But there’s certainly no evidence that Mario is building anything close to a power. And he didn’t at Oregon either. He built a team that usually finished in the 30s in terms of power poll analytics, that was carried to a better record by a weak conference.
 
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