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Re: Pay for Play...the NCAA is not the villain

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Just heard a nice interview on The Jim Rome Show with Michael McCann, the legal analyst from SI.

So what I gathered, even though CA filed this, the NCAA will counter sue and will have a strong argument that was used against the State of Nevada back in 1993 who attempted to do the same thing. They'll use the argument of "Dormant Commerce Clause" which prevents a state from passing laws which unduly burdens interstate commerce. The Court of Appeals in the ninth circuit deemed Nevada's law was deemed unconstitutional.

But here is Mike's argument regarding the pros of this new law:
1. Players are paid from outside entities for their likeness (i.e autograph signings, jersey sells, running football camps, EA sports, side endorsement deals)
2. Schools are still forbidden, including boosters from paying players to come to their schools
3. With side money to be made, clauses could be integrated in order for a student athlete to fully benefit (i.e maintaining a certain G.P.A and a record of class attendance)
4. He mentioned Ed O'Bannon (one of the biggest bust in NBA history who tricked off millions and the culprit who fcked up our love for EA NCAA football b/c he was looking to make $$$ any way possible.....I digress), believes that athletes will be more inclined to stay four years and graduate w/ a degree b/c the pressure of making money, now, will be alleviated.

Here was his cons:
1. So let's say Nike approached Deejay Dallas and want to endorse him or feature him in one of their commercials, per this new law, Deejay wouldn't be able to accept said endorsement, b/c he currently plays an Adidas sponsored school. The law states that if Player A plays at a brand sponsored school, Player A must be endorsed by brand. So with that being said, it will now allow sponsors to up it's on ante to recruit players on the side.
2. B/c only a select few will be considered "marketable" it will destroy camaraderie between teammates. He stated High School and CFB is the time you build lasting friendships, but with this new law, players will be looking out for themselves v. the team
3. Agents will be able to get involved, and these agents will also be involved with street agents.

I can see the problem and the positives on both sides. We'll see what happens. However, it was also mentioned that the NCAA has, I believe, 5 different ADs from the P5 conference to come together to see how they can remedy how athletes can make limited side money through various avenues under the jurisdiction of the NCAA.
 
Canes1968 said:
Wow, I was thinking for a little while that I was talking to a somewhat intelligent person, but clearly I was way off.

You said, "True ballers go to the developmental league, guys that just want to play football for the college experience, do just that."

I said that's not true. The vast majority of elite prep BB players still choose CBB over the developmental league.

How does the one and done rule have anything to do with that? If the one and done rule didn't exist, these elite players would bypass the developmental league and go straight to the NBA.
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Of course elite high school basketball players go to college, they have to go to college for one year, they can't go from high school to the NBA D league. It doesn't work that way.

Do you understand how the NBA D league works? It's not for elite college basketball players. Elite college basketball players get drafted in the first round of the NBA draft. And if there was no one and done rule, those elite players would go straight to the NBA. The NBA D league is for "fringe" NBA players, players not drafted but asked to "try out", or players coming back from injury. The D league is usually 1st or 2nd year players only. After one year in college.

If the NFL had a developmental league, it would by pass the college route. 4 or 5 star high school players could skip the college experience and just focus on playing football. It doesn't have to replace cfb entirely, lower rated players could play the college game.

There are about 1600 players in the NFL, not counting practice squads, and an NFL developmental league could certainly support this level of required players. Which completely debunks your nonsensical assertation that the NFL could not exist without college football.

I thought you could follow the bouncing ball.
 
miamicanephins said:
Of course elite high school basketball players go to college, they have to go to college for one year, they can't go from high school to the NBA D league. It doesn't work that way.

Do you understand how the NBA D league works? It's not for elite college basketball players. Elite college basketball players get drafted in the first round of the NBA draft. And if there was no one and done rule, those elite players would go straight to the NBA. The NBA D league is for "fringe" NBA players, players not drafted but asked to "try out", or players coming back from injury. The D league is usually 1st or 2nd year players only. After one year in college.

If the NFL had a developmental league, it would by pass the college route. 4 or 5 star high school players could skip the college experience and just focus on playing football. It doesn't have to replace cfb entirely, lower rated players could play the college game.

There are about 1600 players in the NFL, not counting practice squads, and an NFL developmental league could certainly support this level of required players. Which completely debunks your nonsensical assertation that the NFL could not exist without college football.

I thought you could follow the bouncing ball.
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LOL...you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. High school basketball players are allowed to go straight to the NBA G-League (formerly known as the D League). How many of the top ranked recruits do you think have chosen this route?
 
miamicanephins said:
Of course elite high school basketball players go to college, they have to go to college for one year, they can't go from high school to the NBA D league. It doesn't work that way.

Do you understand how the NBA D league works? It's not for elite college basketball players. Elite college basketball players get drafted in the first round of the NBA draft. And if there was no one and done rule, those elite players would go straight to the NBA. The NBA D league is for "fringe" NBA players, players not drafted but asked to "try out", or players coming back from injury. The D league is usually 1st or 2nd year players only. After one year in college.

If the NFL had a developmental league, it would by pass the college route. 4 or 5 star high school players could skip the college experience and just focus on playing football. It doesn't have to replace cfb entirely, lower rated players could play the college game.

There are about 1600 players in the NFL, not counting practice squads, and an NFL developmental league could certainly support this level of required players. Which completely debunks your nonsensical assertation that the NFL could not exist without college football.

I thought you could follow the bouncing ball.
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Again, no the NFL could not sustain a minor league large enough to maintain the numbers it needs. It would be cost prohibitive. They would end up having to do something on a much smaller scale, which would result in less talent development and ultimately a massive drop in quality of play. The drop in quality of play would result in less viewership and the whole thing would create a negative feedback loop that would ultimately collapse in on itself.
 
Andrew said:
You keep saying it’s economics. Why don’t you put some numbers on the table. It seems most people disagree with you.
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Most people on this board have no clue what the word economics means. In fact most people on this board have no idea what the difference is between revenues and profits.
 
Canes1968 said:
LOL...you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. High school basketball players are allowed to go straight to the NBA G-League (formerly known as the D League). How many of the top ranked recruits do you think have chosen this route?
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Zero.

For the 2019–20 season, the G League will begin to offer Select Contracts to players that are not yet eligible to enter the NBA Draft.[19] Since 2006, players that are not at least 19 years old by the end of the calendar year have been ineligible, creating what became known as the "one-and-done" rule where players joined a college basketball team for one season and then leave for the NBA.[20] The new Select Contract is to be an alternative for players who do not want to or cannot attend a college, worth up to $125,000 for a season.

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miamicanephins said:
Zero.

For the 2019–20 season, the G League will begin to offer Select Contracts to players that are not yet eligible to enter the NBA Draft.[19] Since 2006, players that are not at least 19 years old by the end of the calendar year have been ineligible, creating what became known as the "one-and-done" rule where players joined a college basketball team for one season and then leave for the NBA.[20] The new Select Contract is to be an alternative for players who do not want to or cannot attend a college, worth up to $125,000 for a season.

View attachment 98271
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The class of 2019 could have elected to go the G-league route. They didn’t. They passed up $125k to go to college instead to be coached by better coaches.
 
RightSaidFred said:
Couldn't agree more. The current system is basically indentured servitude. Sure, the players are given something of value - a scholarship. But much like the coal miners of the 19th century who were paid in company dollars that could only be used at the company store, a scholarship isn't transferable and can't be used anywhere except at the "company store," aka the university in question.

It's a sham. It exploits vulnerable populations and it can't and won't last.

Now... the second the NCAA drops it's "amateurism" spiel, then it gets interesting what they do. They'll have to pay players, but they'll have free reign to get revenue in other ways that weren't available before.

If it were me, and if I were Miami, when that day comes I would sign a bunch of 18 year old kids to long-term contracts. If the NFL teams want to draft those kids, they have to buy me out. Just like in soccer, or the music industry. I wouldn't give the NFL a choice to say "yay or nay." You have legally binding contracts with players and if the NFL wants those kids, they have to pay you off. You specialize in finding the kids and developing them.
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This why. I come on CIS.

Don’t know if this could actually be done, but it is an idea I never thought of.

Great post.
 
Canes1968 said:
Most people on this board have no clue what the word economics means. In fact most people on this board have no idea what the difference is between revenues and profits.
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You still have not posted anything of substance.

What specific costs could a minor-league NFL team not afford?
 
Andrew said:
You still have not posted anything of substance.

What specific costs could a minor-league NFL team not afford?
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The cost to run this minor league would be pretty comparable to the cost to run the current D1 CFB system. Sure, no cost of scholarships and housing, but those savings would be more than offset by the cost of salaries. You still need training facilities, you still need stadiums, not at as grand of a scale as CFB, but keep in mind that a significant portion of a CFB program’s expenses are covered by donations and student fees. Those won’t exist in a minor league. All of the costs will be born by the little revenues generated and NFL subsidies. Some teams might get minimal local government tax incentives, but not much. You still have to ensure the players are eating correctly and getting proper S&C and coaching. All of those costs would have to be comparable to CFB or player development will suffer significantly.
 
Andrew said:
You still have not posted anything of substance.

What specific costs could a minor-league NFL team not afford?
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Another thing to keep in mind is that in the college system, programs are able to maintain a heck of a lot more control over the daily lives of their athletes. That won’t be possible in a minor league, and player development would suffer relative to CFB because of that unless it was compensated for, which would cost additional money. The NFL would also have to take on the insurance and legal risks of all these additional athletes and the post-employment benefits for those who ultimately didn’t make it to the NFL.
 
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Canes1968 said:
The class of 2019 could have elected to go the G-league route. They didn’t. They passed up $125k to go to college instead to be coached by better coaches.
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This. The G league has not developed many players, b/c the coaches are not equipped to develop in this league. You'll have a guy avg. 29 ppg in the G league only to find himself out of the NBA shortly thereafter.
 
Canes1968 said:
With all this talk about pay for play, I think people are confusing who the real villain is in this scheme. Sure, the NCAA isn't perfect, but they are far from being the real villain. The REAL villain is the NFL. The NFL benefits from the college system more than anybody else. The college system is a free farm league for the NFL without which, the NFL simply could not exist. Unlike other sports where minor leagues and developmental leagues can be maintained at relatively low cost, football requires enormous amounts of overhead, and as such, the NFL could not possibly afford to build a robust minor league of the size and quality necessary to maintain quality of play for 32 teams. They are entirely dependent on the free farm system that the NCAA provides. They offer no financial support to the system, while sitting back and reaping the overwhelming majority of the benefits, and they are perfectly content with all the sheep that believe its really the NCAA that is ******** everybody over.

If anybody should be paying college football players, it should be the NFL.

And, before anybody gets it twisted, college football could and would survive without the NFL. College football doesn't need the NFL, but the NFL certainly does need college football.
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Sorry I've learned over time that there are usually less than four degrees of separation between the NCAA and ANYTHING that is a problem in this world

The NCAA has responsibility for ...or can be reasonably tied to most of the world's ills ....and anyone's personal problems.

From the world's arms race and global poverty to male pattern baldness and uncontrollable flatulence

What do you think they are doing in those HUGE office buildings?......certainly not fair rule enforcement

There is little to no reason for the NCAA's existence
 
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