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Rational take on where we are

The People's Champ said:
Mario Cristobal is not the last hope for UM football. The jury is still out on whether Mario will be a success here. If he ultimately fails, there will be opportunities for future coaches to improve the program and hopefully return it to an elite level. There are plenty of examples of programs underperforming for decades before the right coach enters the picture and meaningfully improves the level of play. UM's proximity to elite high school football talent in South Florida will always make it a relatively attractive job.
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Facts. These Chicken Littles bruh!
 
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Alex Del Piero said:
IMHO Mario loves what UGA is running too, it will take YEARS of elite recruiting to bring that to Miami.
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Years to get to GAs total team talent, yes. But to get to their offensive style, power spread or pro spread , whatever they call it, with the right coordinator, maybe 2 years??
 
I'll remain hopeful that stubbornness doesn't prevent this program from ever being relevant again. Mario gets a pass on his first season, but he needs to make changes. If he can get out of his own way, we have a good shot at making it back to the top. This off season is going to be very telling, I'll be honest, I don't think he'll change, but for the sake of the program, I hope I'm wrong.
 
Unsider said:
Perhaps I have PTSD, but I’m sensing another Al Golden-Dorito type of frustration on the horizon…it’s the Miami way.
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I don’t think so not becuase Mario isn’t equally stubborn but he has no king-term ties to Gattis as Golden did to D’Nofrio. Those two were friends since college.
Now Mario may be that tied to Mirabal and the Dline coach (whose name I can never spell correctly). So I would never expect a change at Oline no matter how bad we are. But Gattis was just the best hire for the time and is therefore easier to let go than what Golden had.
 
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the emotion has subsided??

Nah — anger may have turned to apathy, or laughing to keep from crying, but the emotion is still there…
 
Real talk . . .

Mario wears 3 hats.

Mario the program builder.
Mario the recruiter.
Mario the coach.

We overestimated Mario the coach and thought he could scheme us to at least an 8 or 9 win season. He can't, in particular because he failed on the OC hire.

The good news: Mario the program builder and Mario the recruiter will inevitably make it much easier for Mario the coach. Unfortunately, the program building and recruiting do take time, although more time than any of us want because we all want results now.
 
skywalker11 said:
So let me preface this by saying I am an Oregon fan. I have been reading CIS since, well... Mario left us. I've never felt inclined to comment, I am definitely not one of those kinds who are just here to say "just wait, you'll see" or "I told you so..." I apologize for those morons and I hope my presence here does not come off as intrusive. With that being said, I finally decided to bite the bullet and actually create an account and offer my 2 cents (which may be worth even less than that here) on Mario, and I'll try to not regurgitate the same garbage most Oregon fans repeat over and over. (I also apologize if this is long)

With that being said, I think it's easy to look at Oregon's wins and losses over the past 4 seasons and determine Mario's success on that alone any by all accounts, he was successful here (Oregon) but it's also a lot deeper than that, and I'll try to explain my thoughts.

When Mario was hired by Oregon, there really wasn't any other option. It was already December, signing period was quickly approaching. Players were vouching for Mario, it was the right choice and Mario did an AMAZING job keeping what was at one point, the #1 class in the country, still managing to salvage a top 15 class. He recruited some studs to Oregon over his time here.

I don't agree that Mario is a "qb killer" Oregon fans and others will claim that he broke Herbert at Oregon, but as I read one poster here say the other day, he doesn't "break" QB's, but he does hold them back a bit from their full potential. I think the best example of that was in 2019. Herbert was always dangerous with his feet before Mario showed up, but in '19, he wasn't running at all, he'd hardly leave the pocket, and he looked uncomfortable. Leading up to the Pac12 championship game, he was negative rushing yards on the season. Those final 2 games against Utah and Wisconsin in the Rose bowl, there was a night and day difference. They gave him the green light and he had 15 or so attempts on the ground between the two games and rushed for over 100 yards and had 3 rushing TD's alone in the Rose bowl. which is 2 more than he had the entire season. They only win those games because of Herbert's feet. It finally felt like Mario had learned, and I thought heading into the 2020 season, that we would see a more dynamic offense.

Covid year - first off, UO'S pac12 title this year was a sham. It's an asterisk title if there ever was one. Oregon only played 5 games because the PAC12 and its leadership sucks. Outside of their first game vs Stanford, Oregon did not look good. even in their wins. This was a theme that I started to noticed more and more. Oregon would lose ugly and they would win ugly, wins never felt satisfying. It always felt like they would have to just barely hang on, even against bad teams. I can think of maybe 5 games over Mario's tenure that were truly satisfying, every other win was just as exhausting as the losses (similar to Miami's win over Virginia last week) Us fans chalked it up to "Mario just needs to get his guys here, and then that will change."

It was this same year when Oregon fans really started to bicker and fight with one another, whether these issues were the HC?, was it the players? was it the OC? Arroyo was the overwhelming blame for the offensive woes. He eventually left, taking the UNLV job, and Joe Moorehead came in. Long story short, even with the OC change, Oregon's offense looked exactly the same. Same scheme, same formations, same run, run, throw mentality. This is when I started to feel that this is Mario's offense and it's not changing. As much as you guys hate Gattis, I truly believe he's being held back by Mario to a degree.

By '21, practically everyone on the roster was a Mario recruit, and by this point there was already a lot of murmuring and cryptic messages floating around the Oregon program. Rumors of coaches not being happy, players tweeting that promises were broken and were unhappy, players parents passively calling out coaches. Even with Mario's guys, Oregon didn't seem improved. Infact, during Mario's best season in '19, he did that with mostly Helfrich's and Taggart's guys on the field.

I'll be honest. I have zero clue how Oregon went into Columbus and beat the Buckeyes, not just beat them, but really controlled the entire game. Over Mario's entire Oregon career, it never felt like Mario schemed or had specific game plans for the teams he'd face. It always felt like the game plan was "We are going to impose our will, and they will either stop us or they won't". And that's what it felt like against tOSU. Oregon didn't really do anything special, they just went out there and got it done.

However, the next week they went out and played Stoney Brook and were only up 17-7 late in the 3rd quarter before benching the starting QB. It was baffling to me that they could do what they did to tOSU then the following week, struggle with a 5-7 FCS school at home.

While Oregon may have been 9-1 at one point last season, if you go and watch the games, it was one of the ugliest 9-1 records you could ever witness. A lot of that has to do with the terrible opponents Oregon played. As great as the tOSU win was, The loss to Stanford was equally terrible. As of today, Stanford has only one pac12 win since that day. UO needed a goal line stand to beat 1-5 CAL, They were losing to Fresno state midway thru the 4th quarter, needing some late game heroics to win. A lot of their wins were just, so bad.... Most fans blamed the players for not executing... Or questioned the talent and heart of those on the field.

I think this is when I started to notice my 3 biggest redflags
1st. It seemed like, as each season got further and further along, our players looked more and more tired, disinterested, and less physical. We always started the season out strong, but by my mid season, we always seemed slower and got tossed around by lesser opponents (even if we eventually went on to win) I don't remember the exact number, but Oregon had a terrible record against the spread, only covering a couple of times. I believe Mario is currently 1-8 vs the spread this year. A good chunk of Oregon fans and media have pointed to Aaron Feld, and Mario's overwhelmingly physical practices to blame. Feld has a huge twitter presence, his entire mantra is about lifting until your body can't take it anymore. I don't know if that's directly tied to the amount of injuries we saw and what you guys are seeing now, but I do think Felds program slowed our guys down, and put their bodies at a disadvantage. I can say with certainty that since Feld arrived, our players were less agile, less explosive, less flexible. In '21 there were two players who transferred out (Cyrus habibi-likio to Boise state, and Tyler shough to Texas tech) Both of those players got to their new programs, and bragged about how much better their bodies felt.

2nd. As the season goes on, Mario's offense became easier to game plan against for opposing teams. I remember vividly just sitting on my couch, knowing exactly what kind of play Oregon was going to run next. If I can do it, I am sure Kyle Whittingham can too. If Oregon won a game, its was because we had players who could out play you, even if you knew what we were doing. The more game film a coach had on Oregon, the less dynamic Oregon looked.

3rd. I touched on this a bit, but by mid 2021, players and parents were on twitter, calling out coaches. I know this can just come off as pettiness from players not getting PT. But when you have guys like Mycah Pittman (a bonafide starter) quit the team midway thru the season, and then make a youtube video explaining why he left and how the coaches did him dirty, I do think it exposes some truth. Our 4 and 5 star dudes were getting maybe 2 receptions a game. Our tight ends were non existent in the game plan. Our running back had the most receptions last year, in what felt like a check down every other play. It was shocking to see parents actively call out coaches for ruining their kids NFL chances, and that several were talked into not transferring, or redshirting, only to be ignored on the sideline. Had it been just one or two players, I'd chalk it up to entitlement but it got to the point where there were dozens of players and family members actively hating on Oregon's coaches on social media, and whether any of it was true or deserved, it clearly pointed to a locker room that was a bit divided.

I know I touched on a lot of negative points, but I only did so because a lot of these negatives that I saw over 4 years, seem to already be happening in just a few months at Miami.

There's a zillion other things I could touch on (both positive and negative) but ultimately, Mario left Oregon in better shape than any other coach probably could have given the circumstances. I know Mario won't admit this, but the Oregon job and the Miami job are not the same horse. He didn't take over a 4-8 team at Oregon, he didn't have to rebuild Oregon, he just had to keep it rolling, whereas Miami is more of a complete culture overhaul. I think part of his shortcomings this season is not being willing to understand that and trying too hard to emulate what he did at UO. He's said numerous times over the last few weeks that each rebuild has a different starting point but from the outside looking in, he seems to be coaching Miami the exact same we he coached at Oregon.


All that being said, Mario is still relatively a young coach. When he left Oregon, I simply stated, if we could just learn to give full rein to his OC (and dump Feld), that he could be the most dangerous man in college football. I think he is stubborn, but I also think he'll have more pressure at Miami from those breathing down his neck, paying his salary to make him change. I really do feel it's just a couple easy, fixable things preventing him from becoming unstoppable. That will be what determines whether he's there 2 more years and gets bought out, or brings Miami back to national prominence. As a Mario fan myself, I hope it's the latter.

(Again, I apologize for this long essay, and hope y'all success to finish the season)
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Excellent post, worded well, and with fair perspectives on both sides of the coin. Hope you don't get grief for it. Thanks for sharing detailed thoughts in a non-Troll way.
 
skywalker11 said:
So let me preface this by saying I am an Oregon fan. I have been reading CIS since, well... Mario left us. I've never felt inclined to comment, I am definitely not one of those kinds who are just here to say "just wait, you'll see" or "I told you so..." I apologize for those morons and I hope my presence here does not come off as intrusive. With that being said, I finally decided to bite the bullet and actually create an account and offer my 2 cents (which may be worth even less than that here) on Mario, and I'll try to not regurgitate the same garbage most Oregon fans repeat over and over. (I also apologize if this is long)

With that being said, I think it's easy to look at Oregon's wins and losses over the past 4 seasons and determine Mario's success on that alone any by all accounts, he was successful here (Oregon) but it's also a lot deeper than that, and I'll try to explain my thoughts.

When Mario was hired by Oregon, there really wasn't any other option. It was already December, signing period was quickly approaching. Players were vouching for Mario, it was the right choice and Mario did an AMAZING job keeping what was at one point, the #1 class in the country, still managing to salvage a top 15 class. He recruited some studs to Oregon over his time here.

I don't agree that Mario is a "qb killer" Oregon fans and others will claim that he broke Herbert at Oregon, but as I read one poster here say the other day, he doesn't "break" QB's, but he does hold them back a bit from their full potential. I think the best example of that was in 2019. Herbert was always dangerous with his feet before Mario showed up, but in '19, he wasn't running at all, he'd hardly leave the pocket, and he looked uncomfortable. Leading up to the Pac12 championship game, he was negative rushing yards on the season. Those final 2 games against Utah and Wisconsin in the Rose bowl, there was a night and day difference. They gave him the green light and he had 15 or so attempts on the ground between the two games and rushed for over 100 yards and had 3 rushing TD's alone in the Rose bowl. which is 2 more than he had the entire season. They only win those games because of Herbert's feet. It finally felt like Mario had learned, and I thought heading into the 2020 season, that we would see a more dynamic offense.

Covid year - first off, UO'S pac12 title this year was a sham. It's an asterisk title if there ever was one. Oregon only played 5 games because the PAC12 and its leadership sucks. Outside of their first game vs Stanford, Oregon did not look good. even in their wins. This was a theme that I started to noticed more and more. Oregon would lose ugly and they would win ugly, wins never felt satisfying. It always felt like they would have to just barely hang on, even against bad teams. I can think of maybe 5 games over Mario's tenure that were truly satisfying, every other win was just as exhausting as the losses (similar to Miami's win over Virginia last week) Us fans chalked it up to "Mario just needs to get his guys here, and then that will change."

It was this same year when Oregon fans really started to bicker and fight with one another, whether these issues were the HC?, was it the players? was it the OC? Arroyo was the overwhelming blame for the offensive woes. He eventually left, taking the UNLV job, and Joe Moorehead came in. Long story short, even with the OC change, Oregon's offense looked exactly the same. Same scheme, same formations, same run, run, throw mentality. This is when I started to feel that this is Mario's offense and it's not changing. As much as you guys hate Gattis, I truly believe he's being held back by Mario to a degree.

By '21, practically everyone on the roster was a Mario recruit, and by this point there was already a lot of murmuring and cryptic messages floating around the Oregon program. Rumors of coaches not being happy, players tweeting that promises were broken and were unhappy, players parents passively calling out coaches. Even with Mario's guys, Oregon didn't seem improved. Infact, during Mario's best season in '19, he did that with mostly Helfrich's and Taggart's guys on the field.

I'll be honest. I have zero clue how Oregon went into Columbus and beat the Buckeyes, not just beat them, but really controlled the entire game. Over Mario's entire Oregon career, it never felt like Mario schemed or had specific game plans for the teams he'd face. It always felt like the game plan was "We are going to impose our will, and they will either stop us or they won't". And that's what it felt like against tOSU. Oregon didn't really do anything special, they just went out there and got it done.

However, the next week they went out and played Stoney Brook and were only up 17-7 late in the 3rd quarter before benching the starting QB. It was baffling to me that they could do what they did to tOSU then the following week, struggle with a 5-7 FCS school at home.

While Oregon may have been 9-1 at one point last season, if you go and watch the games, it was one of the ugliest 9-1 records you could ever witness. A lot of that has to do with the terrible opponents Oregon played. As great as the tOSU win was, The loss to Stanford was equally terrible. As of today, Stanford has only one pac12 win since that day. UO needed a goal line stand to beat 1-5 CAL, They were losing to Fresno state midway thru the 4th quarter, needing some late game heroics to win. A lot of their wins were just, so bad.... Most fans blamed the players for not executing... Or questioned the talent and heart of those on the field.

I think this is when I started to notice my 3 biggest redflags
1st. It seemed like, as each season got further and further along, our players looked more and more tired, disinterested, and less physical. We always started the season out strong, but by my mid season, we always seemed slower and got tossed around by lesser opponents (even if we eventually went on to win) I don't remember the exact number, but Oregon had a terrible record against the spread, only covering a couple of times. I believe Mario is currently 1-8 vs the spread this year. A good chunk of Oregon fans and media have pointed to Aaron Feld, and Mario's overwhelmingly physical practices to blame. Feld has a huge twitter presence, his entire mantra is about lifting until your body can't take it anymore. I don't know if that's directly tied to the amount of injuries we saw and what you guys are seeing now, but I do think Felds program slowed our guys down, and put their bodies at a disadvantage. I can say with certainty that since Feld arrived, our players were less agile, less explosive, less flexible. In '21 there were two players who transferred out (Cyrus habibi-likio to Boise state, and Tyler shough to Texas tech) Both of those players got to their new programs, and bragged about how much better their bodies felt.

2nd. As the season goes on, Mario's offense became easier to game plan against for opposing teams. I remember vividly just sitting on my couch, knowing exactly what kind of play Oregon was going to run next. If I can do it, I am sure Kyle Whittingham can too. If Oregon won a game, its was because we had players who could out play you, even if you knew what we were doing. The more game film a coach had on Oregon, the less dynamic Oregon looked.

3rd. I touched on this a bit, but by mid 2021, players and parents were on twitter, calling out coaches. I know this can just come off as pettiness from players not getting PT. But when you have guys like Mycah Pittman (a bonafide starter) quit the team midway thru the season, and then make a youtube video explaining why he left and how the coaches did him dirty, I do think it exposes some truth. Our 4 and 5 star dudes were getting maybe 2 receptions a game. Our tight ends were non existent in the game plan. Our running back had the most receptions last year, in what felt like a check down every other play. It was shocking to see parents actively call out coaches for ruining their kids NFL chances, and that several were talked into not transferring, or redshirting, only to be ignored on the sideline. Had it been just one or two players, I'd chalk it up to entitlement but it got to the point where there were dozens of players and family members actively hating on Oregon's coaches on social media, and whether any of it was true or deserved, it clearly pointed to a locker room that was a bit divided.

I know I touched on a lot of negative points, but I only did so because a lot of these negatives that I saw over 4 years, seem to already be happening in just a few months at Miami.

There's a zillion other things I could touch on (both positive and negative) but ultimately, Mario left Oregon in better shape than any other coach probably could have given the circumstances. I know Mario won't admit this, but the Oregon job and the Miami job are not the same horse. He didn't take over a 4-8 team at Oregon, he didn't have to rebuild Oregon, he just had to keep it rolling, whereas Miami is more of a complete culture overhaul. I think part of his shortcomings this season is not being willing to understand that and trying too hard to emulate what he did at UO. He's said numerous times over the last few weeks that each rebuild has a different starting point but from the outside looking in, he seems to be coaching Miami the exact same we he coached at Oregon.


All that being said, Mario is still relatively a young coach. When he left Oregon, I simply stated, if we could just learn to give full rein to his OC (and dump Feld), that he could be the most dangerous man in college football. I think he is stubborn, but I also think he'll have more pressure at Miami from those breathing down his neck, paying his salary to make him change. I really do feel it's just a couple easy, fixable things preventing him from becoming unstoppable. That will be what determines whether he's there 2 more years and gets bought out, or brings Miami back to national prominence. As a Mario fan myself, I hope it's the latter.

(Again, I apologize for this long essay, and hope y'all success to finish the season)
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Very fair assessment. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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