Question for the "Golden needs to make changes crowd"

[weownfsu]

What skills has Golden show to possess that are so exceptional that he deserves to stay around? That is, we fired him, what would we be losing that we couldn't find in another coach?

 

[wvcanefan]

Pillars

 

[westcoastcanes]

A solid head of hair

a sloppy, but professional sideline attire

khakis with pleats

 

[Hurricane5Champs]

Well it starts with him so if he's gone, where would we start?

 

[SFbayCane]

Here's what I see: Since coach Golden has taken over, every single aspect of the program has improved with the exception of on-field defensive performance.

* Offensive talent is better
* Offensive on-field performance is better
* Special teams are better
* Stregth and conditioning is better
* Defensive talent is better

The only thing I see that has gotten worse since Randy was let go is the on-field performance of our defense. As we all know, this is the area managed by golden's best friend. Up til recently I've only been calling for a change at D coordinator, not head coach. That said, if coach golden is going to live or die with the performance of mark doritos defense, then I can only call for the termination of coach golden himself.

Yes, I realize that this is the defensive scheme that coach golden prefers to run himself, but I really think thats a big deal. I see golden as a politician first, head coach second. His market value in the open market is far less than his current contract with UM, in my opinion. I would really like to see Blake James fire mark dorito by the time Im done typing this post and then issue a strong message to coach golden that those passive schemes will not be tolerated here. I tend to think coach golden would be able to hire another more qualified D coordinator and things would improve greatly. But Donna is not going to allow blake james out of her **** long enough for that to happen, so I guess Im back to having to call for golden's termination. But make no mistake, my plan would save UM millions of dollars while allowin the program to continue to improve.

 

[Dingaan1828]

I think he has recruited well, all things considered. He appears to be organized and does a good job representing the university.

Offsetting his recruiting is our awful attrition rate. Why can we not keep these guys out of trouble and in the program?

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

I think he has recruited well, all things considered. He appears to be organized and does a good job representing the university.

Offsetting his recruiting is our awful attrition rate. Why can we not keep these guys out of trouble and in the program?

Are some of them even getting in trouble or getting shafted by our administration? Still waiting for those charges to be pressed against Figs and Blue. EJ was treated very fairly also.

 

[Genghis Cane]

I would personally love for Golden and Dorito to get canned but I think Al buys another year because he is a good salesman. One thing that does kind of make sense after reading Pete's latest edition of "The Work" is that Al and Dorito are not on the same page which is evident if you have watched any of Miami's games this year.

The fact of the matter is that it is Goldens "scheme" however, I believe that Dorito is the one calling the shots. He is the one calling the blitzes, when to go to a nickel coverage, when to play press man, and even when we are in a 4 down or 3 down lineman front. Dorito is completely incompetent as a play caller....he's as predictable as cheesy romantic comedy. I think in the past Al has trusted him since he's his butt buddy going all the way back to the Penn State days. And while I don't think Golden would be a better defensive play caller and equally as incompetent as Dorito....I think he will begin to play a bigger role in the plays that occur on the defensive side of the ball in the near future.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Here's what I see: Since coach Golden has taken over, every single aspect of the program has improved with the exception of on-field defensive performance.

* Offensive talent is better
* Offensive on-field performance is better
* Special teams are better
* Stregth and conditioning is better
* Defensive talent is better

The only thing I see that has gotten worse since Randy was let go is the on-field performance of our defense. As we all know, this is the area managed by golden's best friend. Up til recently I've only been calling for a change at D coordinator, not head coach. That said, if coach golden is going to live or die with the performance of mark doritos defense, then I can only call for the termination of coach golden himself.

Yes, I realize that this is the defensive scheme that coach golden prefers to run himself, but I really think thats a big deal. I see golden as a politician first, head coach second. His market value in the open market is far less than his current contract with UM, in my opinion. I would really like to see Blake James fire mark dorito by the time Im done typing this post and then issue a strong message to coach golden that those passive schemes will not be tolerated here. I tend to think coach golden would be able to hire another more qualified D coordinator and things would improve greatly. But Donna is not going to allow blake james out of her **** long enough for that to happen, so I guess Im back to having to call for golden's termination. But make no mistake, my plan would save UM millions of dollars while allowin the program to continue to improve.

The question needs a bit of clarifying. Since Butch left, is Golden doing something better than Clappy?

Is he doing some things better than Radar? Speak, and recruit?

Does he do one damned thing better than Butch? Ericksen? Jimmy Johnson?

Is he worser? How's our defense compared to all other UM coaches? What's he doing on defense better than the others?

How's our offense compared to all other UM coaches? How's our win/loss numbers compared to JJ, Ericksen, Butch, Clappy, and Radar?

That's right.

Golden sucks.

Bring back Butch.

 

[weownfsu]

Here's what I see: Since coach Golden has taken over, every single aspect of the program has improved with the exception of on-field defensive performance.

* Offensive talent is better
* Offensive on-field performance is better
* Special teams are better
* Stregth and conditioning is better
* Defensive talent is better

The only thing I see that has gotten worse since Randy was let go is the on-field performance of our defense. As we all know, this is the area managed by golden's best friend. Up til recently I've only been calling for a change at D coordinator, not head coach. That said, if coach golden is going to live or die with the performance of mark doritos defense, then I can only call for the termination of coach golden himself.

Yes, I realize that this is the defensive scheme that coach golden prefers to run himself, but I really think thats a big deal. I see golden as a politician first, head coach second. His market value in the open market is far less than his current contract with UM, in my opinion. I would really like to see Blake James fire mark dorito by the time Im done typing this post and then issue a strong message to coach golden that those passive schemes will not be tolerated here. I tend to think coach golden would be able to hire another more qualified D coordinator and things would improve greatly. But Donna is not going to allow blake james out of her **** long enough for that to happen, so I guess Im back to having to call for golden's termination. But make no mistake, my plan would save UM millions of dollars while allowin the program to continue to improve.

That's nice, but it's not really answering my question. First, this isn't about whether Golden is better than Shannon. Second, this idea that our talent has improved over Randy's last year (2010) is largely a myth. Overall, it's about the same. And there's zero evidence to say "strength and conditioning has improved." And it's not like our offense has performed any better than our defense against good teams.

But beyond that, what has Golden shown that makes you and others think if Golden got rid of Dorito, that we'd be successful? Do you think he's such a good recruiter that we can't afford to lose him? Is his recruiting substantially better than any other competent HC's would be at UM? If so, what is that based that?

I've seen a lot of this sentiment recently (that if we just made some changes we'd be okay) so I'm wondering what it is about the job Golden has done here that makes people think that. What is he really, really good at that is so valuable that we can't cut him loose?

 

[Cane Dynasty]

Here's what I see: Since coach Golden has taken over, every single aspect of the program has improved with the exception of on-field defensive performance.

* Offensive talent is better
* Offensive on-field performance is better
* Special teams are better
* Stregth and conditioning is better
* Defensive talent is better

The only thing I see that has gotten worse since Randy was let go is the on-field performance of our defense. As we all know, this is the area managed by golden's best friend. Up til recently I've only been calling for a change at D coordinator, not head coach. That said, if coach golden is going to live or die with the performance of mark doritos defense, then I can only call for the termination of coach golden himself.

Yes, I realize that this is the defensive scheme that coach golden prefers to run himself, but I really think thats a big deal. I see golden as a politician first, head coach second. His market value in the open market is far less than his current contract with UM, in my opinion. I would really like to see Blake James fire mark dorito by the time Im done typing this post and then issue a strong message to coach golden that those passive schemes will not be tolerated here. I tend to think coach golden would be able to hire another more qualified D coordinator and things would improve greatly. But Donna is not going to allow blake james out of her **** long enough for that to happen, so I guess Im back to having to call for golden's termination. But make no mistake, my plan would save UM millions of dollars while allowin the program to continue to improve.

Our special teams are NOT better.

 

[Travis Bickle]

He's good at recruiting. Highly organized. Great football camps.

If Golden truly wants to save his job and actually make things work, there needs to be upheaval on the defensive side of the staff. Only one I'd keep would be Hurlie Brown. Aside from that, everyone must go. On offense, look into getting a new OL coach. Coley seems to be improving some (need to get Duke the ball more and stop with the tunnel screen nonsense on third and goal), and he's a monster on the recruiting trail.

With all that said, I don't mind seeing a new HC. Something needs to change, whether it's Golden himself or a complete upheaval on the defensive staff.

 

[SFbayCane]

That's nice, but it's not really answering my question. First, this isn't about whether Golden is better than Shannon. Second, this idea that our talent has improved over Randy's last year (2010) is largely a myth. Overall, it's about the same. And there's zero evidence to say "strength and conditioning has improved." And it's not like our offense has performed any better than our defense against good teams.

But beyond that, what has Golden shown that makes you and others think if Golden got rid of Dorito, that we'd be successful? Do you think he's such a good recruiter that we can't afford to lose him? Is his recruiting substantially better than any other competent HC's would be at UM? If so, what is that based that?

I've seen a lot of this sentiment recently (that if we just made some changes we'd be okay) so I'm wondering what it is about the job Golden has done here that makes people think that. What is he really, really good at that is so valuable that we can't cut him loose?

I thought I did fairly well in addressing your questions but I'll try again. First let me say that it IS, to a certain extent about him being better than Randy. That's where the program was when he took over. So that provides a decent enough starting point for a discussion like this, no?

Yes, I think he has and will recruit better than (sort of) "the average D1 coach who has the UM job." He certainly has that uptempo, used car salesman personality trait that you see in guys like Les Miles, Pete Carroll, Jimmy Johnson, etc. "The cloud," for all of its over use and over-discussion was most real IMO with regard to recruiting. I think coach Golden and staff have done well to recruit given their situation. I also think coach Golden is improving as a recruiter. As we move forward, I can see him being less likely to take random dudes from his camps like he did at Temple and earlier at UM. He's shown improvement in this area.

I can see that the Strength & conditioning program has improved since Randy left. You can see it in both the players physique and on field performances. If you cant see it thru the hatred of coach Golden, perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this sub-point.

As for what makes me think Golden would be successful if he makes a change at D Coordinator, I'd suggest looking at my bullet points. Everything else has improved since his arrival except the defensive on-field performance. And again, I see golden as a politician first, coach second. I think if the AD forced his hand, he would be able to bring in a competent DC and be able to work effectively with him. I could be wrong but my gut feel about the guy tells me that he would be able to make it work.

To your final question about golden not being replaceable, Im not sure where that's coming from. Im certainly not of that opinion, so I cannot defend that. I do think he's replaceable but it will be very expensive to the university. Im sort of still of the opinion that he can be successful here with a change at DC.

 

[BALLHAWKU]

Here's what I see: Since coach Golden has taken over, every single aspect of the program has improved with the exception of on-field defensive performance.

* Offensive talent is better
* Offensive on-field performance is better
* Special teams are better
* Stregth and conditioning is better
* Defensive talent is better

The only thing I see that has gotten worse since Randy was let go is the on-field performance of our defense. As we all know, this is the area managed by golden's best friend. Up til recently I've only been calling for a change at D coordinator, not head coach. That said, if coach golden is going to live or die with the performance of mark doritos defense, then I can only call for the termination of coach golden himself.

Yes, I realize that this is the defensive scheme that coach golden prefers to run himself, but I really think thats a big deal. I see golden as a politician first, head coach second. His market value in the open market is far less than his current contract with UM, in my opinion. I would really like to see Blake James fire mark dorito by the time Im done typing this post and then issue a strong message to coach golden that those passive schemes will not be tolerated here. I tend to think coach golden would be able to hire another more qualified D coordinator and things would improve greatly. But Donna is not going to allow blake james out of her **** long enough for that to happen, so I guess Im back to having to call for golden's termination. But make no mistake, my plan would save UM millions of dollars while allowin the program to continue to improve.

Speical teams is a lot worse since AG got here too

 

[weownfsu]

That's nice, but it's not really answering my question. First, this isn't about whether Golden is better than Shannon. Second, this idea that our talent has improved over Randy's last year (2010) is largely a myth. Overall, it's about the same. And there's zero evidence to say "strength and conditioning has improved." And it's not like our offense has performed any better than our defense against good teams.

But beyond that, what has Golden shown that makes you and others think if Golden got rid of Dorito, that we'd be successful? Do you think he's such a good recruiter that we can't afford to lose him? Is his recruiting substantially better than any other competent HC's would be at UM? If so, what is that based that?

I've seen a lot of this sentiment recently (that if we just made some changes we'd be okay) so I'm wondering what it is about the job Golden has done here that makes people think that. What is he really, really good at that is so valuable that we can't cut him loose?

I thought I did fairly well in addressing your questions but I'll try again. First let me say that it IS, to a certain extent about him being better than Randy. That's where the program was when he took over. So that provides a decent enough starting point for a discussion like this, no?

Yes, I think he has and will recruit better than (sort of) "the average D1 coach who has the UM job." He certainly has that uptempo, used car salesman personality trait that you see in guys like Les Miles, Pete Carroll, Jimmy Johnson, etc. "The cloud," for all of its over use and over-discussion was most real IMO with regard to recruiting. I think coach Golden and staff have done well to recruit given their situation. I also think coach Golden is improving as a recruiter. As we move forward, I can see him being less likely to take random dudes from his camps like he did at Temple and earlier at UM. He's shown improvement in this area.

I can see that the Strength & conditioning program has improved since Randy left. You can see it in both the players physique and on field performances. If you cant see it thru the hatred of coach Golden, perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this sub-point.

As for what makes me think Golden would be successful if he makes a change at D Coordinator, I'd suggest looking at my bullet points. Everything else has improved since his arrival except the defensive on-field performance. And again, I see golden as a politician first, coach second. I think if the AD forced his hand, he would be able to bring in a competent DC and be able to work effectively with him. I could be wrong but my gut feel about the guy tells me that he would be able to make it work.

To your final question about golden not being replaceable, Im not sure where that's coming from. Im certainly not of that opinion, so I cannot defend that. I do think he's replaceable but it will be very expensive to the university. Im sort of still of the opinion that he can be successful here with a change at DC.

Not at all. It has nothing to do with my question. Golden's barometer isn't Randy Shannon. It's all the coaches who have dominated here. And this isn't about how Golden compares to them--it's about what Golden brings to the table to make people think he should stay here.

You still aren't telling me what Golden does so well that you think he should stay. Is the only thing holding us back our defense? No. Our offense has been similarly bad against good teams. We get outscored by a HUGE margin in the second half of games, so again, outside of your "physique" analysis, there's no empirical data to suggest that our strength and conditioning program is improved.

 

[Jax Cane]

Here's what I see: Since coach Golden has taken over, every single aspect of the program has improved with the exception of on-field defensive performance.

* Offensive talent is better
* Offensive on-field performance is better
* Special teams are better
* Stregth and conditioning is better
* Defensive talent is better

You realize we are dead last in 3rd down conversion and our special teams play has been nothing short of a dumpster fire. Two different games have seen special team plays completely take the wind out of our sails.

 

[weownfsu]

Here's what I see: Since coach Golden has taken over, every single aspect of the program has improved with the exception of on-field defensive performance.

* Offensive talent is better
* Offensive on-field performance is better
* Special teams are better
* Stregth and conditioning is better
* Defensive talent is better

You realize we are dead last in 3rd down conversion and our special teams play has been nothing short of a dumpster fire. Two different games have seen special team plays completely take the wind out of our sails.

The defense has been so bad and is so associated with Golden that people don't realize that our offense has been similarly ****** for years. They have yet to have a dominant performance against a good team. Really the only difference between our offense and defense is that the offense is OK against ****** teams. Against any good defensive squad, they're clueless.

 

[SFbayCane]

Our offense looked good under Jed Fisch, who Im a huge fan of. James Coley was brought in primarily for recruiting purposes but is improving. He still has a good way to go but Im happy with his improvement.

The one area where Im skeptical about golden as it relates to the offense is his hiring and retaining of Art kehoe. He has no bidnizz being a D1 O-line coach and that's not my opinion, that's the marketplace's opinion. Dude had zero job opportunities outside of UM. This is, in part why I say that golden is a politician first, coach second.

 

[weownfsu]

Our offense looked good under Jed Fisch, who Im a huge fan of. James Coley was brought in primarily for recruiting purposes but is improving. He still has a good way to go but Im happy with his improvement.

The one area where Im skeptical about golden as it relates to the offense is his hiring and retaining of Art kehoe. He has no bidnizz being a D1 O-line coach and that's not my opinion, that's the marketplace's opinion. Dude had zero job opportunities outside of UM. This is, in part why I say that golden is a politician first, coach second.

Jedd Fisch, the guy who scored 3 points against Notre Dame and 13 against KSU? We played horrendously against good teams under Fisch. And Fisch is a good coach.

 

[SFbayCane]

Our offense looked good under Jed Fisch, who Im a huge fan of. James Coley was brought in primarily for recruiting purposes but is improving. He still has a good way to go but Im happy with his improvement.

The one area where Im skeptical about golden as it relates to the offense is his hiring and retaining of Art kehoe. He has no bidnizz being a D1 O-line coach and that's not my opinion, that's the marketplace's opinion. Dude had zero job opportunities outside of UM. This is, in part why I say that golden is a politician first, coach second.

Jedd Fisch, the guy who scored 3 points against Notre Dame and 13 against KSU? We played horrendously against good teams under Fisch. And Fisch is a good coach.

Yes, Jedd Fisch is a **** good coach IMO. Pointing out the two games where our O line was outmatched proves more of my point than yours.

Again, I use the marketplace as my primary gage for a coach's value. Jedd Fisch is currently employed as an offensive coordinator in the NFL. That tells me he is one of the 32 best offensive coordinators in the USA at this time. He's the only OC that made Jacory look decent. As well, we saw Stephen morris' regression after Jedd Fisch left.