Question about this 24 [playoff] team absurdity.

[TheOriginalCane]

maybe he meant the amount of games is a bit much for football... we're looking at what 12regular season and 4-6 playoffs depending on where you fall in ranking.... 16-18games...

24 teams will involve 8 byes and 16 first-round matchups. So, you know, 5 rounds. Not 6.

Currently, it's 4 rounds, but some of those teams play conference championship games.

Eliminate the championship games, add one extra round, it's all the same. Get the action started quicker.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

100% a money grab by the NCAA.

The NCAA organizes the basketball tournament.

The NCAA does NOT organize the football playoffs. Thus, the NCAA is not grabbing any money.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Math. It's simple math.

Week One Playoffs - 16 teams in playoffs.
Week Two Playoffs - 8 teams in playoffs.
Week Three Playoffs - 4 teams in playoffs
Week Four - National Championship.

16 teams times 2 would accommodate 32 teams - and only add one additional week.
But there's no real good reason for that.

When you get outside the math and throw in extras - that's just mess.

Just tell Notre Dame to tighten up - or GTFO. Whining little b***ches.

Adding a 5th round would not add one additional week if conference championship games are eliminated.

Which is what will happen.

 

[cookies]

The people in power who want 16 teams do not want:

1. To eliminate conference championship games

2. To go straight up 1 vs 16, 2 v 15, etc.

First, you should know that it is believed that ESPN owns up to 13 games (the current 11 games plus two more additional games). If that’s true, that may only leave 10 games up for bid — most of them first-round affairs pitting plenty of three- and four-loss programs.

From a television perspective, the worth of each of those games may be as little as $10 million, according to some experts, and as much as $25 million. Add in a few dollars ($50-75 million) in on-campus game revenue and you are left with a wide range.

Some say as little as $300 million and others say as much as $700 million. The key amount to keep in mind is $250 million — the estimated value of the 10 FBS conference championship games, which, in a 24-team format, would need to be eliminated and their amounts recuperated from an expanded postseason.

With push for 24-team CFP field ramping up, Greg Sankey and SEC holding fast against it

The CFP's annual two-day spring meetings produced no decision on a future format. But it might have paved the way for a more serious discussion moving forward.

sports.yahoo.com

The SEC title game is valued at least $80 million and as high as $100 million, according to those with knowledge of the projections. The Big Ten isn’t much lower. Can the leagues fill that budgetary hole?

Many of Sankey’s own members have publicly called for the elimination of a championship game that they believe has been devalued with a playoff expansion to 12 teams. There is one problem with that: The SEC is contractually obligated, through ESPN, to play the game.

After ACC and others throw support behind 24-team CFP, the ball is now in the SEC's court

Now that the other powerbrokers in college football have pulled an about-face and want a 24-team postseason, Greg Sankey's league (and ESPN) may be the only thing stopping it from happening.

sports.yahoo.com

The SEC’s title game is worth as much as $100 million, the Big Ten around $75 million, and the ACC and Big 12 games are each at or north of $50 million, according to the leagues’ estimations

 

[Cane_Mutiny]

A 24-team playoff means that 8-4 Iowa, the sixth best team in the B10, would have been in the field with a chance to win the national title last year.

For most serious programs, the regular season wouldn't matter anymore. Just sleepwalk your way to 9 wins, lock up a playoff spot, and then try to make a run in a single-elimination tournament.

One of the defining characteristics of college football is that the regular season is high stakes. This would effectively sacrifice that to create more high stakes playoff games.

 

[BS85]

Just make it double elimination at this point

 

[UMFarArcher]

The people in power who want 16 teams do not want:

1. To eliminate conference championship games

2. To go straight up 1 vs 16, 2 v 15, etc.

Just as long as conference championship games don't hold up the playoffs.

Choose your poison - conference games or National Championship Playoffs?

When you get to numbers like off-numbers like 24 teams - it's 24 week one, 12 week two, 6 week three . . . WHAT? Three teams? How's that supposed to work?

It's a load of crap - the simple arithmetic doesn't work. Some folks can take a very basic solution, and make it so complicated - no one is happy.

2, 4, 8,16. Four weeks.

That's plenty. Simple. Logical.

 

[CaneinBroward]

Can someone explain why the ACC, Bg12 and BIG favor the 24-team playoff and why the SEC and ESPN are against it?
What are the dynamics?

The ACC, Big XII, and B1G want guaranteed spots in the playoff. The $EC knows their schools get the media bias in the AP ranking which is what the CFP committee uses as a base point. I mean at least half of their schools had a place in the Top 25 AP poll EVERY week last season. Therefore, the $EC knows their schools will be well represented more often than not.

 

[hurricane-warnings]

I can see some 30yr old TV exec. thinking it's a good idea but I'm surprised it has as much support from the coaches. Most the people in here realize it is a terrible idea.

There is no appetite for another pro football league, minor league football or player's being employees of the school. No one wants to watch Miami led by 28yr Brad Kaaya. If JS was a minor league player for the Browns and played the Lions minor league team no one would care. But if a bunch of 3 stars who weren't good enough to be drafted to the minors played in THE GAME there would still be 100K people in the Big House.

It's like they don't understand why COLLEGE football is so popular. Go watch the Catholics vs Convicts and you'll understand why it is so popular. It's tradition, rivalries, player's being students, the alumni. In no scenario is a 1st round Vandy vs. IA better than GA vs AL for the SEC title.

The only way to save it and work is 16 teams. P4 with 4 teams each with the 1st 2 rounds in conference #1E v #2W so if the 2 best teams are in the same div. they don't meet in the first round. 1st round on campus. SEC title game in the Sugar bowl Big12 in the cotton etc. 4 conf. champs in the FF neutral.

Go back 20yrs between ACC including ND they've had 1 of the 4 best teams every year. Days of SEC #7 being way better than ACC #3 are over. P4 w/ combination of TX/CA/AZ making 16 teams all 4 conferences are strong. This is the way.

 

[cookies]

Just as long as conference championship games don't hold up the playoffs.

Choose your poison - conference games or National Championship Playoffs?

When you get to numbers like off numbers like 24 teams - it's 24 week one, 12 week two, 6 week three . . . WHAT? Three teams? How's that supposed to work?

It's a load of crap - the simple arithmetic doesn't work. Some folks can take a very basic solution, and make it so complicated - no one is happy.

2, 4, 8,16. Four weeks.

That's plenty. Simple. Logical.

I hear you — 16 straight up w/ no conference championship games would be fine by me however the SEC+ESPN aren’t going to allow it.

In the least likely 14 team model, which is what ESPN wants, the top two teams get byes from the 6 game first round, then the quarterfinals, semis, championship game. Only two games are created, and ESPN would own the rights to those two extra first round games. Conference championships are still held prior to the playoffs.

In the 16 team model, there’d essentially be a 4 team playin round before the first round. I’d guess that takes place during conference championship week although Im unsure. The top two teams would get double byes. Here is a mockup for what it would look like if it was imposed in 2024:

Four extra games are created in this 16 team model. ESPN owns 2 of them and would have first dibs on the bidding of the remaining 2.

This model is of course a ridiculous way to keep the B1G and SEC with an edge, virtually always the 1 and 2 seeds, while not sacrificing conference championship games or their relationship with Disney.

At this point, might as well keep 12; but they can’t keep 12 because Sankey told the ADs and coaches in the SEC that they would expand the playoffs in combination of going from 8 in-conference games to 9 in-conference games; and the Alabama AD + others have already called for the elimination of conference championship games. So he’s on the clock to get this done for ‘27 since he already failed to get an implementation in ‘26.
———


The 24 team model would have 23 games, which is 12 games created, elimination of conference championships, and 8 teams would get a bye from the first round. ESPN would own two of the 12, and have first dibs on the 10 remaining games, however they can’t afford to pay for all of those.

16 teams in round 1 then 16 teams in round 2, then 8 to 4, and ends with the natty.
———

There is a compromise between 16 and 24 which is 20; and 12 teams get a bye with 8 teams in a de facto playin round; 8 —> 16 —> 8 —> 4 —> 2. I think the non-SEC powers could be fine with that; but I’m unsure how much of the holdout is about access versus entrenchment.

ESPN wants 14 ideally and 16 at most, so the SEC+ESPN aren’t really communicating about a compromised solution. The b1g spoke of 20 back when they were the only non-16 voice. Now that they have everyone on their side, their camp has only spoken about 24.

 

[cookies]

The ACC, Big XII, and B1G want guaranteed spots in the playoff. The $EC knows their schools get the media bias in the AP ranking which is what the CFP committee uses as a base point. I mean at least half of their schools had a place in the Top 25 AP poll EVERY week last season. Therefore, the $EC knows their schools will be well represented more often than not.

Nah, this isnt the case anymore. Before 24 became realistic, the SEC and B1G jointly proposed a 16 team playoff, that had their 2 conferences with 8 total automatic qualifiers, 4 each, while the XII and ACC got two each. 2 for G6 and 2 at-large.

The acc and XII didn’t and couldn’t agree to this, and even the SEC coaches and ADs didn’t want this. Ever since then, the 16 team proposals by the SEC has been a 5+11 model where 4 conference champions in the p4 get in and 1 from the g6 plus 11 at large teams.

Problem is, in the year and change that it took most of the powers that be to agree on the 5+11 playoff model, conference championship games have fallen out of favor. Thus, leading the B1G’s eagerness to get rid of the CCGs created an opening for their 24 team playoff model as an attractive alternative for all the non-ESPN/Greg Sanky folks to get behind.

If the 24 team model wins out, there is unanimous consensus on a 1+23 model where only the top G6 team automatically qualifies.

 

[CaneinBroward]

Why is it a monstrosity?

The NFL has 32 teams and 14 make the 4-round playoffs. That means 43.75% of the teams make the playoffs.

There are 138 Division I-A (FBS) teams and 12 make the 4-round playoffs . With the same playoff participation percentage as the NFL, 60 college football teams would make the playoffs.

Same sport.

"Monstrosity"? Really? How about we stop overreacting.

A 16 team CFP field would be an 11.6% participation rate.

A 24 team CFP field would be a 17.4% participation rate. It would be a 5-round playoff, but without the conference championship games.

MLB - 12 teams out of 30 make the playoffs, for a 40% participation rate.
NBA - 20 teams out of 30 make the playoffs (including play-in tournament), for a 66.7% participation rate.
NHL - 16 teams out of 32 make the playoffs, for a 50% participation rate.
MLS - 18 teams out of 30 make the playoffs, for a 60% participation rate.

Let's try to keep things in perspective, here.

Let's also not overreact and pretend that 138 D1 teams have equal access to the playoff so comparisons with other leagues is shaky to begin with.

Plus, this accepts the premise that the 4 major sports do not allow too many teams to participate in their playoffs. There are many fans who think they are too inclusive (particularly the arena sports - 50% or higher participation is ridiculous).

The one thing the major sports leagues have over D1 football is they have standardized regular season schedules so the division winners and other playoff participants have determined on the field who should be there.

I have no problem with the schools wanting to make as much money as possible on a playoff, but the first priority should be making sure they have the 12, 16, or 24 schools who deserve to be there and have it be proven as much as possible on the football field and as free from bias as possible. It's hard to do that with oversized conferences that are making educated guesses as to who their champions are instead of having truly representative champs.

 

[CaneinBroward]

Nah, this isnt the case anymore. Before 24 became realistic, the SEC and B1G jointly proposed a 16 team playoff, that had their 2 conferences with 8 total automatic qualifiers, 4 each, while the XII and ACC got two each. 2 for G6 and 2 at-large.

The acc and XII didn’t and couldn’t agree to this, and even the SEC coaches and ADs didn’t want this. Ever since then, the 16 team proposals by the SEC has been a 5+11 model where 4 conference champions in the p4 get in and 1 from the g6 plus 11 at large teams.

Problem is, in the year and change that it took most of the powers that be to agree on the 5+11 playoff model, conference championship games have fallen out of favor. Thus, leading the B1G’s eagerness to get rid of the CCGs created an opening for their 24 team playoff model as an attractive alternative for all the non-ESPN/Greg Sanky folks to get behind.

If the 24 team model wins out, there is unanimous consensus on a 1+23 model where only the top G6 team automatically qualifies.

That's my point, the $EC wants a 16 team playoff and all the other conferences want 24 teams now. The $EC knows they will get the lion's share of at-large bids. The ACC & Big XII know they will get 1 participant in most years in a 16 team playoff and the B1G knows they will more often than not have fewer participants than the $EC.

Frankly, I'm surprised the B1G would even sign off on a 1+23 model if they thought about it because $EC dominance through media bias will appear more often than not. As an example, the $EC would have had 8 participants in a 24 team playoff this past year.

 

[MiamisMoperiestMopes]

I can see some 30yr old TV exec. thinking it's a good idea but I'm surprised it has as much support from the coaches. Most the people in here realize it is a terrible idea.

There is no appetite for another pro football league, minor league football or player's being employees of the school. No one wants to watch Miami led by 28yr Brad Kaaya. If JS was a minor league player for the Browns and played the Lions minor league team no one would care. But if a bunch of 3 stars who weren't good enough to be drafted to the minors played in THE GAME there would still be 100K people in the Big House.

It's like they don't understand why COLLEGE football is so popular. Go watch the Catholics vs Convicts and you'll understand why it is so popular. It's tradition, rivalries, player's being students, the alumni. In no scenario is a 1st round Vandy vs. IA better than GA vs AL for the SEC title.

The only way to save it and work is 16 teams. P4 with 4 teams each with the 1st 2 rounds in conference #1E v #2W so if the 2 best teams are in the same div. they don't meet in the first round. 1st round on campus. SEC title game in the Sugar bowl Big12 in the cotton etc. 4 conf. champs in the FF neutral.

Go back 20yrs between ACC including ND they've had 1 of the 4 best teams every year. Days of SEC #7 being way better than ACC #3 are over. P4 w/ combination of TX/CA/AZ making 16 teams all 4 conferences are strong. This is the way.

That’s a non starter for SEC and I’d have a hard time disagreeing with them. IMO they are a better conference than ACC or B12 currently

 

[TemplarCane]

A 24-team college football playoff seems too many teams, but I agree eliminating conference championship makes the change pretty much even, especially if you eliminate some of the midtier non-New Year’s Eve bowl games. An opening round playoff game does have greater meaning than the Pop-Tarts Bowl in Orlando.

In the expanded CFP era bowl games are the participation trophy. You had a 7-8 win season? For all that hard work here’s an half-expense paid trip to El Paso, Texas, or Shreveport, Louisiana. We’ll even kick in some gift cards for your players. Post on Instagram for us. We want to see what a good time you’re having.

I think the NIL and transfer portal era leveled the playing field somewhat. As Mario said in a recent interview, schools, like Alabama, Georgia, and others that had five stars on their three and four deep can no longer enjoy such exclusive luxuries. Not only do those schools not enjoy talent on their third and fourth teams better than most opponents first teams, those talents were not on their opponents first teams. Now they are.

Coaches have to evaluate and develop better if they want to consistently win a high-level. They have to actually coach rather than collect talent and win 8-9 games a season walking off the bus.

What I would like to see is the elimination of powerhouse schools scheduling FCS or bottom-tier FBS schools in the regular season. I understand the payout of these games makes these schools line up to be cannon fodder but there are probably financial ways to spread the wealth and avoid litigation. College football doesn’t like litigation.

My only concern is legislation over-regulating college football, likely to the benefit of some and the detriment of others.

 

[hurricane-warnings]

That’s a non starter for SEC and I’d have a hard time disagreeing with them. IMO they are a better conference than ACC or B12 currently

Maybe top to bottom. But the SEC would be wise to cash out while they are ahead. This isn't the SEC of 5yrs ago. They haven't played for the title in 3yrs while the ACC/ND did twice. NIL has changed the landscape. Another 5yrs TT and SMU oil money will be ahead of GA and AL. And I'm talking about a Big 12 that includes TX, A&M, TT, SMU, ASU, USC and UCLA.

 

[TemplarCane]

Let's also not overreact and pretend that 138 D1 teams have equal access to the playoff so comparisons with other leagues is shaky to begin with.

Plus, this accepts the premise that the 4 major sports do not allow too many teams to participate in their playoffs. There are many fans who think they are too inclusive (particularly the arena sports - 50% or higher participation is ridiculous).

The one thing the major sports leagues have over D1 football is they have standardized regular season schedules so the division winners and other playoff participants have determined on the field who should be there.

I have no problem with the schools wanting to make as much money as possible on a playoff, but the first priority should be making sure they have the 12, 16, or 24 schools who deserve to be there and have it be proven as much as possible on the football field and as free from bias as possible. It's hard to do that with oversized conferences that are making educated guesses as to who their champions are instead of having truly representative champs.

What is needed is to break up D1 college football into multiple tiers.

No G5 program is likely to ever win national championship. They might be unlikely to win a first round game in a 24-team playoff unless they were fortunate enough to play another G5 program.

A G5 24 team playoff tournament would be a draw for television, at least in my opinion. Those games would have meaning and I think winning the “G5 national championship” would be achievement. More meaning than postseason bowl games. If you were a fan of a top MAC, C-USA, or American Conference team would you rather get the one or one of the two G5 entries only to get your *** kicked, or would you rather have an opportunity to win four or five games and label yourself a national champion?

 

[Ispyin]

100% a money grab by the NCAA.

Except the ncaa isn’t involved in the CFB playoffs

 

[CaneinBroward]

What is needed is to break up D1 college football into multiple tiers.

No G5 program is likely to ever win national championship. They might be unlikely to win a first round game in a 24-team playoff unless they were fortunate enough to play another G5 program.

A G5 24 team playoff tournament would be a draw for television, at least in my opinion. Those games would have meaning and I think winning the “G5 national championship” would be achievement. More meaning than postseason bowl games. If you were a fan of a top MAC, C-USA, or American Conference team would you rather get the one or one of the two G5 entries only to get your *** kicked, or would you rather have an opportunity to win four or five games and label yourself a national champion?

I agree the G5 should be its own division of the NCAA. Not sure it's doable though as anti-trust lawsuits will probably follow.

Don't leave the choice to the schools or the conferences themselves though. It wasn't too long ago where Utah, UCF, and Cincy were G5 schools thinking they would move up (and they did). Boise State had a great stretch there as well.

 

[TemplarCane]

I agree the G5 should be its own division of the NCAA. Not sure it's doable though as anti-trust lawsuits will probably follow.

Don't leave the choice to the schools or the conferences themselves though. It wasn't too long ago where Utah, UCF, and Cincy were G5 schools thinking they would move up (and they did). Boise State had a great stretch there as well.

Well, I don’t know who else would help make the decision except for television sports networks.

They are the ones writing the billion dollar checks and the ones that can broker a deal with the G5 to avoid litigation.

We do not want Congress or the courts having any input other than signing off on deals made by the conferences, the schools, and the networks.