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Position Groups ‘24/25 comparison

Feel good about defensive position groups being as good or better than a year ago, and let’s hope so as the offense has regressed.
Offensive line will be fine. Beck is a high-end talent, but coming off a serious injury and will be playing catch up this summer. Not realistic to expect the WR group to be as good. D$ has a thing for Lofton, but replacing Arroyo and two other nice pieces. Martinez is also a significant RB loss. Replacing one of program’s top kickers with a mystery man. Tough early schedule also doesn’t allow time to iron out issues. A positive is there’s some confidence in Dawson.
 
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grover said:
My criteria is whether or not the position group is playoff level:

Yes: QB, OL, DE, CB
Maybe: RB, TE
No: WR, DT, S, LB
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Pretty much agree here.

Getting Haulcy would move S to Yes in my opinion.

Pena + Marion would move WR to Maybe. Don't see anything in the portal that would get us to Yes.

DT is a depth piece away from Maybe - I like our top 3. Can convince myself Scott/Blay can be playoff level.

Don't see anything in the portal that would change our LB situation. Only hope is scheme and development fixes or masks the problems.
 
bacane said:
Feel good about defensive position groups being as good or better than a year ago, and let’s hope so as the offense has regressed.
Offensive line will be fine. Beck is a high-end talent, but coming off a serious injury and will be playing catch up this summer. Not realistic to expect the WR group to be as good. D$ has a thing for Lofton, but replacing Arroyo and two other nice pieces. Martinez is also a significant RB loss. Replacing one of program’s top kickers with a mystery man. Tough early schedule also doesn’t allow time to iron out issues. A positive is there’s some confidence in Dawson.
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Good post and I agree. One silver lining to your last point, Notre Dame doesn't have time to iron out issues either, and they are almost certainly starting a QB on the road, at night, in that environment who has thrown 0.0 passes in his college career.

ND also played 4 playoff games last season, and while they were against obvious good teams, they didn't crack 400 yards of offense in a single one, never got to 6 yards per play in a single one, and never scored more than 27 points in a single one.

As far as 3 weeks later, does DJ Lagway have a functional shoulder?

Tough games right out of the gate for sure, but it's not like ND has a few cupcakes first either.
 
Rey Rey Armweak said:
Pretty much agree here.

Getting Haulcy would move S to Yes in my opinion.

Pena + Marion would move WR to Maybe. Don't see anything in the portal that would get us to Yes.

DT is a depth piece away from Maybe - I like our top 3. Can convince myself Scott/Blay can be playoff level.

Don't see anything in the portal that would change our LB situation. Only hope is scheme and development fixes or masks the problems.
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The issue for me with DT is the coaches clearly believe they have quality starters in Blay, Scott and Moten. But we've had no depth and thin talent for so long that they're only basing that on how those guys perform against our own OL, not because they performed at a playoff level in past ACC seasons or outperformed other top DTs on roster. It's an incomplete eval. If we go out and grab a DT1 like the Syracuse kid, and the other 3 are still talked about in the same breadth, then I'd know we had something.

Net/net, we've been wrong at DT for so long, we should be throwing a lot more talent at the position to gain more certainty. But we aren't. So we're left to "hoping" our guys are good.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Good post and I agree. One silver lining to your last point, Notre Dame doesn't have time to iron out issues either, and they are almost certainly starting a QB on the road, at night, in that environment who has thrown 0.0 passes in his college career.

ND also played 4 playoff games last season, and while they were against obvious good teams, they didn't crack 400 yards of offense in a single one, never got to 6 yards per play in a single one, and never scored more than 27 points in a single one.

As far as 3 weeks later, does DJ Lagway have a functional shoulder?

Tough games right out of the gate for sure, but it's not like ND has a few cupcakes first either.
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Schedule is what it is, so no complaints. Just tough start with new D coaching staff, QB and a couple position groups.
 
QB-Top 8 QB if healthy
RB-Group is 2nd or 3rd best group in ACC. Louisville and Pittsburgh are the other contenders
WR-Talented but young. Need experienced portal help
TE-Lofton and Beauman are a very good duo. Different skillset room than last year, but Lofton can absolutely be 1st team All ACC at TE this year if he stays healthy.
OL-Elite group, best in the ACC

DE-With Mesidor moving back there and Bain healthy this is a high level group. I think the DE group will be better in 2025 than 2024.
DT-It will be better in 2025 with Moten taking another step, Scott taking another step, and adding a NFL draftable DT in Blay to the group. Group has more size also.
LB-I think Mauignoa will be missed here, he was super productive and was asked to do some things last season that wasn't his strength. Step back at MLB. I think step up in OLB play with Wes being a senior, and Pruitt more size and experience.
CB-Major step up
S-Major step up

Offense I think will be top 20 ish nationally, but I think the defense can be top 20 ish nationally also.
 
QB - find me 20 QBs better than Beck if healthy. I would say very good. Top 10
RB - significantly worse bc we lost Martinez? who most of the fan base wanted benched for Lyle for the first half of last season
WR - complete wildcard. Obviously very little production, but raw talent is better IF Daniels is healthy and reports on Jojo/toney/moore are true.
OL - just as good if not better. Potentially elite
 
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As long as Beck is healthy and receivers can catch well’ll be ok, Beck put up good numbers last season, Georgia receivers lead the nation in drops. Beck is not an average QB, hes not Cam, but hes good.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Good post and I agree. One silver lining to your last point, Notre Dame doesn't have time to iron out issues either, and they are almost certainly starting a QB on the road, at night, in that environment who has thrown 0.0 passes in his college career.

ND also played 4 playoff games last season, and while they were against obvious good teams, they didn't crack 400 yards of offense in a single one, never got to 6 yards per play in a single one, and never scored more than 27 points in a single one.

As far as 3 weeks later, does DJ Lagway have a functional shoulder?

Tough games right out of the gate for sure, but it's not like ND has a few cupcakes first either.
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DJ Lagway hasn’t thrown yet this spring, and has a hamstring issue as well. There is a good chance they will also have him have shoulder surgery after the season.
 
QB - worse but not by a ton. Cam was special but Beck could be too
RB - worse by a bit but Fletcher/Lyle is a nice 1-2 punch
WR - worse obviously but better than people will think. Will be a lot better if we get Pena
TE - Worse but possibly hold serve if Lofton does the kind of damage we're expecting there and Bauman is a really good red zone threat
OL - All depends on Bell. If he steps up we're as good if not better than last year
DT - Better - maybe. I think Blay will have a Barrow type impact and Scott is ready to emerge. Moten is good. Need more bodies though.
DE - Better. Tons of depth and talent here. Last year with Messidor inside once Baron fell off and Alston got hurt we were actually thin there.
LB - Better. The young guys emerge. And everyone is better by virtue of being in Heatherman's system
CB - Light years better
S - Better. Powell was okay. Looks like we'll have 2 very good safeties of the Houston kid committee. Poyser is already better than anything we had last year
K - Worse. Who is the kicker?
P - same. Joyce is back
KR/PR - gotta be better I think
 
People underestimate some of our young guys.
Usually players take a huge jump from Frosh to Sophomore years. Lyle, Trader and Lofton are going to surprise many people. They should fill in their roles nicely with more responsibility.

Now will the offense be as explosive and aesthetically pleasing? More than likely no, it will not be.

Can the offense be just as effective or even more efficient? Yes.

Beck is going to go through all of his progressions. If nothing is there he is going to take off and run up the middle as fast as he can. He did that many times against solid defenses the last few seasons and was able to pick up key first downs.
I love Cam but he would run around and try to always do the big plays which for the most part turned out nice but was way too risky.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Beck, if healthy, is absolutely one of the 15 best QBs in the country.

OL is, at worst, a Top 10 unit. IMO the line will be better this year, just because that right side should be as good as any guard/tackle combo in the entire country. Left side still does have things to prove, but I'd be shocked if the unit was anything worse than equal to last year, and it was a Top 10 line last year, at worst.

My only significant concern on this roster is WR. Everything else is plenty good enough to win the ACC. I don't think the defense will be elite, but it'll be good enough with the totally revamped secondary to win the league, if paired with a ~Top 25 offense. And Beck plus this OL plus the backs are easily good enough to be Top 25, provided we can get some production in the passing game from the pass-catchers. One more sure-fire starting WR, and IMO this is the team to beat in the ACC.
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I’m gonna be very curious to see how the Beck-Dawson marriage performs, particularly Beck’s mental processing

People got butthurt when I said Dawson is an average playcaller and Cam called more than 60% of the plays that were ran.

Maybe it’s the homer in me, but I feel pretty good and optimistic about the defense as a whole (DT and safety biggest ?). The offensive identity is my biggest concern, because Cam was responsible for so much.

I agree WR is a big ?, but I’m hoping the young guns can level up, esp Jojo & Toney
 
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Cant really disagree with OP, BUT, the key issue is , and I hate to make it so simplistic, can we become a " winning team"? Where the sum exceeds the parts? Last year was an abysmal failure to not make the playoffs. We found a way to win games that were lost and a way to lose games that were won( Syracuse ).
In a wildly hopeful scenario, maybe this season we are like the '87 team coming off the bitter end of the ' 86 season( vinny to Walsh)?
I want a team with SOME ability to defend a lead.
 
umfire2005 said:
Interested to see where posters are at comparing position groups from last year to this year, as I am pretty surprised at some of the takes I’ve seen. I’d be particularly interested in DMoney’s view on the matter.

Elite — Top 5 unit in the country.
Very good — top 12-15 unit in the country.
Above average — top 25 unit in the country.


Mine:

OFFENSE:

QB — Worse. Above average starter, average room.

OL — Equal. Was a very good group last year, should be a very good group this year.

RB - Significantly worse. No Martinez hurts. Fletcher is an average ACC starter, Lyle shows promise. Average room

WR - Significantly worse. Need another
Piece. Average room.

TE - Worse, but not significantly.

DEFENSE

Safety - Better, still need a piece but the word is the transfer is a very good player. Likely average room unless other piece is big-time.

Lb — Even. Below avg unit.

Cb - Much improved. Possibly above average unit.

DE — Slightly better. Lowe is the real deal. Above average unit.

DT — Need more here. Equal. Average unit.

Special Teams — Should take a step forward in the return game. FG Kicker is worse.

In short, ‘25 offensive groups are clearly a substantial step back (barring OL). Could be talked into OL being on the cusp of elite. One borderline elite player.

‘25 defensive group better at CB and Safety. No elite position group, no elite players.

No elite players in Specialist positions.
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I guess we can expect to be 5-7 this year
 
umfire2005 said:
Interested to see where posters are at comparing position groups from last year to this year, as I am pretty surprised at some of the takes I’ve seen. I’d be particularly interested in DMoney’s view on the matter.

Elite — Top 5 unit in the country.
Very good — top 12-15 unit in the country.
Above average — top 25 unit in the country.


Mine:

OFFENSE:

QB — Worse. Above average starter, average room.

OL — Equal. Was a very good group last year, should be a very good group this year.

RB - Significantly worse. No Martinez hurts. Fletcher is an average ACC starter, Lyle shows promise. Average room

WR - Significantly worse. Need another
Piece. Average room.

TE - Worse, but not significantly.

DEFENSE

Safety - Better, still need a piece but the word is the transfer is a very good player. Likely average room unless other piece is big-time.

Lb — Even. Below avg unit.

Cb - Much improved. Possibly above average unit.

DE — Slightly better. Lowe is the real deal. Above average unit.

DT — Need more here. Equal. Average unit.

Special Teams — Should take a step forward in the return game. FG Kicker is worse.

In short, ‘25 offensive groups are clearly a substantial step back (barring OL). Could be talked into OL being on the cusp of elite. One borderline elite player.

‘25 defensive group better at CB and Safety. No elite position group, no elite players.

No elite players in Specialist positions.
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QB- worse w/above average starter

RB- worse w/ above average collective group

WR- worse w/ more athleticism and higher potential

OL- slightly improved returning 3/5 starters

TE- slightly worse not a highly utilized part of offense probably won't matter


DE- Equal no real pass rusher again

DT- slightly improved no 6'0 guy in the rotation

LB- slightly improved as long as we add Traore

CB- significantly improved couldn't get worse

S- significantly improved couldn't get worse
 
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